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Author Topic: Say 'No' Awareness Signs  (Read 35443 times)

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Howard

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2011, 09:50:45 AM »
It is headed 'Cheadle Postcode analysis', but if you look down all the areas where the students come from, they include Marple, Offerton, Glossop etc, so I assumed that it included all camsfc students at both campuses.  The table also gives just three years figures - 2007, 2008 and 2009.  So where does sgk get the Marple data from, and also the 2010 data?  Is there another spreadsheet in that link, and if so, how do you get to it?  

Dave, there are two "worksheets" in the spreadsheet for which you can see the tabs for at the bottom of the windows (if you're using Excel or Open Office. I haven't tested it in Google Docs). One shows the numbers for the Marple campus and the other for the Cheadle campus.

EDIT: And in fact, if you look at the original on the FOI site, if has five pages. a title sheet for each worksheet, one page for Marple and two for Cheadle.

Dave

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2011, 09:40:22 AM »
sgk, what is the source of your data?  We need to reconcile those figures with the ones provided by the college in response to the FOI request:

07-08    2539
08-09    2365
09-10    2578

The figures quoted by sgk ARE from the college response to the FOI : http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/82034/response/206880/attach/html/3/FOI%20student%20data.xlsx.html

Thanks Mark.  Maybe my techie skills are failing (again  ::)) but that link, though it looks different, takes me to the same excel spreadsheet as the one I used in post 78 above: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/student_numbers_by_yearsitepostc

It is headed 'Cheadle Postcode analysis', but if you look down all the areas where the students come from, they include Marple, Offerton, Glossop etc, so I assumed that it included all camsfc students at both campuses.  The table also gives just three years figures - 2007, 2008 and 2009.  So where does sgk get the Marple data from, and also the 2010 data?  Is there another spreadsheet in that link, and if so, how do you get to it? 

Howard

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2011, 08:33:36 AM »
Has anyone contrasted these figures with those from Aquinas and Stockport College which are the chief competition to MACSFC? Is there a general reduction in students attending college or have their figures gone up correspondingly?

admin

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2011, 05:57:22 AM »
sgk, what is the source of your data?  We need to reconcile those figures with the ones provided by the college in response to the FOI request:

07-08    2539
08-09    2365
09-10    2578

The figures quoted by sgk ARE from the college response to the FOI : http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/82034/response/206880/attach/html/3/FOI%20student%20data.xlsx.html
Mark Whittaker
The Marple Website

Dave

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2011, 12:06:53 AM »
sgk, what is the source of your data?  We need to reconcile those figures with the ones provided by the college in response to the FOI request:

07-08    2539
08-09    2365
09-10    2578


tina

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2011, 08:44:22 PM »
Thank you, I'm glad the questions was asked

Miss Marple

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2011, 08:38:06 PM »
All this was covered at  Question Time at the college on Tuesday night by the panel it was very interesting and worth going to as it provided lots of answers to question such as these. 

tina

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2011, 08:15:15 PM »
As for 'dwindling' student numbers, look at these figures: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/student_numbers_by_yearsitepostc.

Number of students at Marple site, with %change on previous year.

2007 = 1,683
2008 = 1,715 (+2%)
2009 = 1,656 (-3%)
2010 = 1,472 (-11%)

Number of students at Cheadle site, with %change on previous year

2007 = 2,539
2008 = 2,365 (-7%)
2009 = 2,578 (+9%)
2010 = 1,945 (-25%)


Does exam results not count as a possible -% or the fact people are scared that the college is going to close down so have gone else where? Maybe if the no campaign calmed down then the numbers might go up? Don't shoot me, but you do have to look at the bigger picture. The no campaign say they are concerned for their children's education in one hand but then slander the said college in the other hand for wanting to improve the building to be able to continue teaching our children.

sgk

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2011, 07:57:23 PM »
As for 'dwindling' student numbers, look at these figures: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/student_numbers_by_yearsitepostc.

Number of students at Marple site, with %change on previous year.

2007 = 1,683
2008 = 1,715 (+2%)
2009 = 1,656 (-3%)
2010 = 1,472 (-11%)

Number of students at Cheadle site, with %change on previous year

2007 = 2,539
2008 = 2,365 (-7%)
2009 = 2,578 (+9%)
2010 = 1,945 (-25%)

Dave

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2011, 10:27:39 AM »
Dave, you seem pretty sure in your belief that an extra £8m of investment would revamp the College's facilities and make them available to my grandchildren.  I personally think that investing £8m extra into the Buxton Lane site, which needs a complete construction overhaul, not just renovation, is chicken feed.

I think I have read somewhere in the numerous posts on this forum that the college is expecting to require about £14 million to build what it needs at Buxton Lane, in order to replace the Hibbert Lane premises.   Presumably they plan to top up the anticipated £12 million from the sale of Hibbert lane from reserves and/or borrowing.

In my experience of building college buildings, that is realistic.  Admittedly my building days were a few years ago (in the late nineties and early noughties), and allowances have to be made for inflation hitting building costs since then.  But in those days, the ball-park cost estimate for a college building, with a mix of specialised (ie expensive) space and general classrooms (ie cheap) was about £1,000 per sq.m.  Now overall UK inflation since the mid-90s is about 40%.  So let's assume that this college will need to spend about £1,500 per sq.m.  That should still provide them with over 9,000 sq.m (90,000 sq.ft), which is probably more than they need. So it should leave them with a few quid to tart up the existing Buxton Lane building.    And Buxton Lane looks to me like a straightforward site: level ground, not 'brownfield' (so no decontamination required), easy access, and of couse they already own it, so no cost to purchase the land.  And above all, perhaps, we are in a long and difficult recession, which is hitting the construction industry very badly.  So the tendering process should be extremely competitive.   :) 

On the other hand, if they only get £4 million for Hibbert Lane, that would fall well short of giving them what they require to replace that campus.  So the likelihood is that if they don't get planning consent for retail, the sale will be off and they will have to think of a plan B. 

Any downward spiral that the college is in would not be halted by £8m extra into the Buxton Lane site......but as student numbers dwindle.

What downward spiral?  According to the latest annual accounts posted on their website, the college's finances are sound, and I believe the inspector pronounced their financial state as 'outstanding' in the last report.    As for 'dwindling' student numbers, look at these figures: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/student_numbers_by_yearsitepostc.


sooty2

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2011, 04:19:22 PM »
Post overwritten. Please use the PM system to continue chatting about unrelated issues. Admin

Harry

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2011, 12:24:20 PM »
The post by marple_syrup raises some interesting points.

An obvious one is that CAMSFC can't use the £12M to update the Hibbert Lane site, as the only way they will get the £12M is by selling the site. So that's irrelevant.

No, it really got me thinking about Aquinas. CAMSFC have always competed with Aquinas for students, so this is nothing new.

When Aquinas decided to rebuild and extend, they faced similar concerns from local residents that CAMSFC are facing. The residents wanted to know what the college's plans were. This prompted the principal to write in the college newsletter “When we have a clearer idea of what our plans are, we will share them with you, our neighbours, and seek and listen to your views.” So, similar to CAMSFC, they didn't share their plans until they were clear what they were. I believe CAMSFC have said they will share their plans in October.

To further quote from an Aquinas newsletter "Can we reassure you straight away that, whatever we plan to do, we have no intention of significantly increasing student numbers at the college? It is widely accepted that the college has in this regard reached its optimum size. As we are part of the education provision for students over the age of 16 in Stockport, any move to increase student numbers at Aquinas would have a detrimental effect on other local colleges. We have no intention of allowing this to happen." So, as the Aquinas intake is already heavily oversubscribed, the competition for CAMSFC is unchanged. Also, we must not forget that any potential students who are not of the Catholic faith, or attending a Catholic school, have very little chance of going there.

I think the serious competition for sixth form colleges is going to come from secondary schools that are applying for Academy status. Sixth form colleges came about when government policy was to take A Levels out of the school system. It could be that colleges will shortly have to refocus and move back to Further Education.

marple_syrup

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2011, 11:19:08 AM »
Dave, you seem pretty sure in your belief that an extra £8m of investment would revamp the College's facilities and make them available to my grandchildren.
I personally think that investing £8m extra into the Buxton Lane site, which needs a complete construction overhaul, not just renovation, is chicken feed.
Any downward spiral that the college is in would not be halted by £8m extra into the Buxton Lane site.  CAMSFC is now competing with the likes of Aquinas, who invested in excess of £40m into an existing site.  If the £12m was being spent on a updating the Hibbert Lane site, it may have a chance, but the construction needed on Buxton Lane relegates this amount - in my personal opinion - to almost worthless.
On top of this, the Cheadle site is also struggling.  You may want to dismiss this as speculation, but by the time the money comes through I think it is naive in the extreme to assume that won't have any bearing on how the money is spent.  The College as a whole will have an agenda including the other site, like that or not.  It may ringfence the money for Marple, but as student numbers dwindle I personally - having experienced the Tameside College merger a decade ago - am genuinely pessimistic that £12m will revamp CAMSFC in Marple.  By the time a big supermarket replaces it, it is simply too late.
It's a matter of what you believe and why you believe it.

As I sit in traffic caused by a large supermarket on the way to pick the grandkids up from Aquinas, I shall remember your optimism at what £8m could do back in 2011.

Miss Marple

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2011, 09:58:54 AM »
Two sarcastic insults in the one sentence.. you're getting more prolific MM   :-*


dons tin hat

It's called defence !

Tricky

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Re: Say 'No' Awareness Signs
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2011, 09:53:40 AM »
Two sarcastic insults in the one sentence.. you're getting more prolific MM   :-*


dons tin hat
meh