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Author Topic: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre  (Read 5746 times)

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barndoor

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2020, 09:50:55 PM »
As an almost lifelong resident of Marple, the areas where speeding has been most evident over the years has been
  • along Windlehurst
  • along Hibbert Lane from the Mill down to the Buxton Lane junction
  • Stockport road between Dan Bank and Rose Hill station
  • Church Lane from Littlewoods up to Ridge Road.

Funny you should mention 'Church Lane from Littlewoods up to Ridge Road', Howard; I witnessed some pretty atrocious driving near the Conservative Club just a couple of Fridays ago. A car driver - travelling well over the speed limit - evidently hadn't realised the car in front had stopped to let a utility van join the traffic; and had he not been able to stop in time (which he just about managed to do, amid a screeching of tyres and smoke) he would have been into the back of it. The really scary thing is that a couple were on the pavement between the Con Club and the stopped car and, fearful of being hit, felt obliged to jump out of the way. Not only that but 20 minutes later I saw the same car, this time on Stockport Road, and the driver was on his phone looking at Facebook! A white J-reg Toyota MR2, if anyone's interested - I'd advise people to stay clear of it.

Andy

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2020, 03:14:21 PM »
There is a free version - the data is all in the public domain - https://www.roadcrash.co.uk/map

To be fair the reporting information isn't great and we don't know if speed played a factor. The question will be whether the collision could have been avoided if the cars were travelling at a slower speed.



jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2020, 02:31:04 PM »
Looking at that map, I would say that the majority of those accidents seem to be around junctions where collisions tend to happen way more often. Mostly due to people not checking around them before moving off or being impatient.

As an almost lifelong resident of Marple, the areas where speeding has been most evident over the years has been
  • along Windlehurst
  • along Hibbert Lane from the Mill down to the Buxton Lane junction
  • Stockport road between Dan Bank and Rose Hill station
  • Church Lane from Littlewoods up to Ridge Road.
The only area where that has diminished, in my experience has been along Windlehurst where the speedbumps have been most aggressive.
it's worth buying some credits for crashmap so you can see more detail and which accidents are as a result of speeding (I have).... it's not many!
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

Howard

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2020, 12:14:37 PM »
Looking at that map, I would say that the majority of those accidents seem to be around junctions where collisions tend to happen way more often. Mostly due to people not checking around them before moving off or being impatient.

As an almost lifelong resident of Marple, the areas where speeding has been most evident over the years has been
  • along Windlehurst
  • along Hibbert Lane from the Mill down to the Buxton Lane junction
  • Stockport road between Dan Bank and Rose Hill station
  • Church Lane from Littlewoods up to Ridge Road.
The only area where that has diminished, in my experience has been along Windlehurst where the speedbumps have been most aggressive. The ones on Hibbert Lane are useless as on most cars you can straddle them or drive between them without even feeling the bump.
Howard

Andy

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2020, 11:39:06 AM »
It's certainly turned into an interesting thread, not least because I finally agree with BoJo on something.

I think for the purposes of this topic the traffic / crash map is the most interesting part. You can clearly see a correlation between accidents and where council officers have tried to implement traffic calming measures. I don't agree with them all, but you can appreciate that they have responded to an issue.

I think we seem to have some consensus or a majority for doing *something* but not on what that should be.

I personally would like to see the District Centre a place where cars and pedestrians have equal priority, and that all routes to our local schools have zebra crossings so people have priority over cars at junctions. There seems to be a significant peak in accidents around our local Primary schools or the crossings nearby, surely we should be focusing some efforts here too.

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2020, 10:26:38 AM »
No one is saying Marple isn't a safe place both from a crime AND a traffic perspective!
It's highly unlikely people make stuff up just for the sake of posting something on social media
what some people are saying though is that they'd rather see fewer speed humps!
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

andrewbowden

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2020, 09:19:50 AM »
I accept your points Andrew Bowden and I'm afraid I don't know Adam either, but am similarly sceptical when information on the internet from seemingly reliable sources becomes trusted simply because it is well presented but has had significant time and effort applied to it's presentation.
some samples from my "sources" below, they could be fabricated/exaggerated of course but are still sources nontheless!
I'm concious also that this thread has gone way offtrack and was about speed humps, my true passion :)

Okay, let's go through this. 

Firstly something important to say - to everyone.  Screenshots are dead easy to fake.  It took me 30 seconds to mock up a Twitter post where Boris Johnson is congratulating Mr Chips on being the best chippy in Marple.  It's that easy.  I took me far longer trying to work out how to actually include the image in this post...

Unfortunately though, businesses assuming everyone has Facebook - and therefore not making their posts public to all - makes it hard for me to find canonical sources of information for one simple reason - I don't have a Facebook account. 

Anyway I will assume they are all true.  The Works - we have a first hand account.  Okay.  So there may have been a crime.  But the Bargain Booze reference?  Well who is the person who posted that?  Are they reliable?  Do they work for Bargain Booze?  Were they there?  Or was it heresay?  Was it someone bored just making up rumours for the sake of it?  People do you know.

So I'm going to repeat this.  And I'm going to put it in very big letters.

MARPLE IS A SAFE PLACE

This is NOT a hotbed a crime.  Yes there is crime.  There's crime everywhere.  There's crime in the Shetland Islands.

Seriously.

We can sit here panicking, worrying our heads of, being absolutely petrified about crime.  That we're about to be stabbed, robbed, beaten to a pulp.  That our houses our about to be ransacked.  Murdered in our beds. 

As I said, I used to live in a part of London where there were 80 recorded crimes a month.  I didn't live in fear of crime then.  And I'm certainly not going to do so now.

barndoor

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2020, 07:40:04 PM »
A couple of posters have suggested they'd like to see road accident data. Luckily this data is available, in map form, at this address: https://www.crashmap.co.uk/

Click on the 'Map' option and a map will appear. For some reason the default extent is the area around Ambleside, but just type Marple into the Location box towards the bottom-right and press Enter. The pins show where an accident between 2015-2019 has been recorded; and you can fiddle around with the settings to show data as far back as 1999.

bd
 

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2020, 02:23:50 PM »
no one should never believe what they read on the internet,unless there is a source for that information
I accept your points Andrew Bowden and I'm afraid I don't know Adam either, but am similarly sceptical when information on the internet from seemingly reliable sources becomes trusted simply because it is well presented but has had significant time and effort applied to it's presentation.
some samples from my "sources" below, they could be fabricated/exaggerated of course but are still sources nontheless!
I'm concious also that this thread has gone way offtrack and was about speed humps, my true passion :)
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

andrewbowden

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2020, 12:39:35 PM »
I tend to believe what I see and hear first hand rather than headline statistics. If you're happy that a Marple outlet is robbed at knifepoint but because it doesn't show immediately in a statistic somewhere then you'll clearly sleep soundly in your bed tonight Wheels :)

Now let's be honest here.  No sensible person one will ever be happy for a business to be a victim of crime.  And to suggest someone would be, is not nice.

But personally the only source I have that Bargain Booze was robbed is you jimblob.  I am not saying it didn't happen. But I am saying I cannot currently corroborate your assertion that this crime took place.  If someone can produce a reliable source of information that matches what you say, then that will back you up.  Right now, I do not have that corroboration.

Why is this important?  Because I don't know you from Adam.  I have never met you.   I don't know anything about you.  To me personally you currently sit in the bucket of "random person I know of from the internet".  I don't know where your information comes from.  I don't know you.

So I don't automatically believe what you are saying because no one should never believe what they read on the internet,unless there is a source for that information

To take a simple example, I can say right now my hair is blonde. 

How do you know that is true?  If you have met me, you will know the answer.  But if you haven't? Is it blonde?  Is it red?  Is it very?  Have I even got hair?  How do you know?  Where is the evidence?

That's a silly example (my hair is actually green).  But sometimes these things are bigger.  Rumours and disinformation happen all the time.  They can stoke fear and mistrust. Sometimes unsubstantiated rumours can be spread with the best intentions.  Sometimes for the worst.

So I will not make an apology for not looking at the local crime stats and concluding that one reported crime a month in three police areas does not make this a hotbed of crime.  And from looking at them and concluding that suddenly going from very little crime over 12 months to loads in just a few weeks seems a little unlikely.

If the data at my fingertips changes and my conclusion turns out to be wrong, then I will be wrong.  But right now i do not have that information.

I don't want to offend by labelling you jimblob as unreliable.  You may be a very reliable source of information.  But I don't know that you are.

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2020, 11:16:20 AM »
I just don't get why people get so furious about getting caught speeding. You did it. You could have not done it. Suck it up.
I don't speed so not a problem; if I do, which has happened twice in 35 years of driving, I've graciously accepted the consequences and become a wiser and safer driver because of it. I object though to having my car wrecked by speed bumps and the environment and roadspace being blighted with speed humps.
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2020, 11:10:35 AM »
So you haven't got a source all you have is your gossip and social media chat.  Whereas if you check out the link Andrew provided they don't bear out your statement.
I tend to believe what I see and hear first hand rather than headline statistics. If you're happy that a Marple outlet is robbed at knifepoint but because it doesn't show immediately in a statistic somewhere then you'll clearly sleep soundly in your bed tonight Wheels :)
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

Belly

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2020, 11:00:43 AM »
I just don't get why people get so furious about getting caught speeding. You did it. You could have not done it. Suck it up.


Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

andrewbowden

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2020, 10:58:31 AM »
So you haven't got a source all you have is your gossip and social media chat.  Whereas if you check out the link Andrew provided they don't bear out your statement.

Of course recorded crime stats for October have yet to be published, so it's quite possible that there has been an absolutely massive increase in crime in the last month.  That Marple North has gone from 5 recorded crimes in the last 12 months to 5 in a month in very short amount of time.

We also know that not every crime is reported.  Although you would expect criminal damage and robbery to be reported - especially as your insurance company is highly unlikely to pay out if you don't have a crime number.  And you only get a crime number if you report it to the police. 


Out of interest I quickly looked up the crime stats for where I used to live in the leafy suburbs of South West London.  The London Borough of Merton has the fourth lowest crime rates of any of the London boroughs.  It's a pretty safe place.  We did once get a visit from a PCSO warning us that there had been a break in near by.  Turned out our neighbour had been robbed.  The robbery?  An ironing board was taken from an unlocked outdoor storage cupboard.

The stats?  79 recorded crimes in September for the part of Merton I lived in until 2016.  Given Marple Bridge, Marple South, and Marple North had ONE recorded crime between them in September, then either there's huge amounts of unrecorded crime going on, or there isn't that much crime.

Please.  Don't have nightmares.

wheels

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2020, 10:42:54 AM »
A coach broken in to, criminally damaged and used as a temporary drug den at Smiths of Marple and someone assaulted when they approached the individuals concerned.
Bargain Booze robbed at knife point in the last week.
Car and bike thefts being reported regularly on local social media
Caravan stolen on 5th November

I'm sure I could trawl back through more posts, but the above are recent examples.

So you haven't got a source all you have is your gossip and social media chat.  Whereas if you check out the link Andrew provided they don't bear out your statement.