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Author Topic: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre  (Read 20594 times)

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Condate

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #168 on: January 14, 2022, 10:35:23 PM »
So what ideas do you and your colleagues have for alternative traffic calming and/or placemaking for Marple centre? Because honestly, it needs something.

Does it? Really?  That's a large part of the issue. As a frequent pedestrian, I've never had a problem with traffic. My wife has now had both hips replaced, but prior to that found mobility difficult and was very slow crossing the road. She never had the least difficulty with traffic.

I really question the need for damaging traffic calming measures. If we need something, it should be a regular police presence to check on compliance with traffic rules. That would no doubt be considered expensive, but it is what the police are supposed to be for; deterring offences by their presence. It's their whole  raison d'être.


rsh

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #167 on: January 14, 2022, 05:55:28 PM »
I have absolutely no problem with the 20mph zone, I like the idea of it and I will always push for safety of residents, especially with the full time job I work in. What I didn't/don't get is how the speed bumps improve social distancing. Whilst I understand the need to reduce speed in certain areas such as Travis Perkins as you rightly mention, the 20mph zone you enter should result in people driving at 20mph. The speed bumps do not appear to have helped this as I have seen people go over them at a wide range of speeds throughout the daytime and evening. We do have designated areas for crossing of course and it is great so many use these facilities.
Historically Stockport Road has not been a particular problem for accidents (having looked at fire service attendances). If the installed devices were to counter accidents following a series of them
I would say fair enough but the only reason we were ever told was to improve social distancing.

Thank you for the reply @Steve Gribbon .

Re the aims of Safer Streets Save Lives, it seems that's quite a basic take on the subject, and although it was generally about "social distancing", there are many aspects to that, which could have been understood more fully by actually reading press releases at the time: https://news.tfgm.com/news/leaders-progress-bold-active-travel-plans-as-up-to-gbp-5m-of-emergency-funding-made-available-as-part-of-coronavirus-recovery

One very important aspect of this is that people immediately no longer wanted to take buses or trains and numbers of people cycling shot up. That's effectively social distancing too. Putting yourself on a bike rather than an enclosed train or bus = social distancing! And I hope you can understand that trying to cycle amongst traffic doing 20mph is massively different to 30mph. So the funding was about about trying to make roads better for cycling, too.

As someone who cycles around Marple centre most weeks, the 20mph zone/humps have made a modest but important difference. The hump outside the cinema in particular means I can now cross from Memorial Park into Church Street much more easily and safely, because most traffic coming from Strines Rd is properly slowed down rather than speeding in to race the lights at 35mph+. I still don't actually feel comfortable cycling down Stockport Road though, which is a shame, and something I'd hope councillors might actually address one day, if we're ever to sort out Marple's traffic problems..?

That said, I actually agree that speed bumps never completely work - often the only way to really control peoples driving speeds is with enforcement, either police or camera. Although in this case, I do feel that some kind of clear entry feature or simply more modest (less jarring) humps is still necessary to signify to people driving that they are entering a 20mph zone/town centre — eg the gentle humps in Marple Bridge, or different paving as in Poynton.

I don't feel that simply removing the bolt-in humps and leaving the (easily missed) 20mph signs in place will be sufficient to bring about or continue with any kind of behaviour change. So what ideas do you and your colleagues have for alternative traffic calming and/or placemaking for Marple centre? Because honestly, it needs something.

Steve Gribbon

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #166 on: January 06, 2022, 08:47:00 AM »
Thank you for replying to that Cllr @Steve Gribbon 

Are you able to give us an update on outcome of the meeting you and fellow councillors were due to attend with Officers in early December please?

Yes of course

We had a good meeting where we stated the concerns of residents along with our own thoughts, the main issue being none of us are against the 20mph zone but the bumps have caused a lot of feedback with the majority of it being negative.
The information is then passed to the portfolio holder for a decision and we are still awaiting this. Now the festive period is over I will chase up where we are with it. I requested the double yellow lines on Station Road be repainted a couple of days ago and have received a reply stating this has been put forward so the officers are available to contact. I will update on here when I get some more information.

I forgot to mention before, all the best to everyone on this site for 2022.

Kind regards

Steve
Councillor Marple North
Follow me on Twitter @sgribbonlibdems
Email: stevegribbonlibdems@gmail.com

admin

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #165 on: January 06, 2022, 08:31:16 AM »
Thank you for replying to that Cllr @Steve Gribbon 

Are you able to give us an update on outcome of the meeting you and fellow councillors were due to attend with Officers in early December please?

Steve Gribbon

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #164 on: January 06, 2022, 08:00:02 AM »
Quite surprised at the normally sensible Cllr @Steve Gribbon failing to understand how the 20mph measures help people on foot (or other means) and with social distancing. Some pavements in the area (particularly outside Travis Perkins for example) are ridiculously narrow and cluttered with street furniture. If people want to pass each other at a reasonable distance, that’s going to require one party briefly stepping into the road. Stating, quite angrily, “we walk on pavements” as if how dare any pedestrian need to use some of the THREE lanes of carriageway there is a really disappointing and misguided response to this matter. Luckily Malcolm Allan seemed to get it.

Good morning

Thanks for linking me into this and my apologies for the delay in replying, I genuinely missed seeing my name on the thread. I always welcome feedback on how I come over at meetings and appreciate your comments, you have my word I wasn't angry. Maybe a little stern at best but certainly not angry as I really enjoy local engagement matters.

I have absolutely no problem with the 20mph zone, I like the idea of it and I will always push for safety of residents, especially with the full time job I work in. What I didn't/don't get is how the speed bumps improve social distancing. Whilst I understand the need to reduce speed in certain areas such as Travis Perkins as you rightly mention, the 20mph zone you enter should result in people driving at 20mph. The speed bumps do not appear to have helped this as I have seen people go over them at a wide range of speeds throughout the daytime and evening. We do have designated areas for crossing of course and it is great so many use these facilities.
Historically Stockport Road has not been a particular problem for accidents (having looked at fire service attendances). If the installed devices were to counter accidents following a series of them
I would say fair enough but the only reason we were ever told was to improve social distancing. Many of my councillor colleagues agree and this has been taken forward following communication from a large amount of residents.

I hope this clarifies my thoughts on the subject. I also am grateful for your comment on being normally sensible, I take my role as councillor very seriously and for those who know me protection of our residents has always been a priority and it will continue to be.

Kind regards

Steve     
Councillor Marple North
Follow me on Twitter @sgribbonlibdems
Email: stevegribbonlibdems@gmail.com

Condate

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #163 on: January 03, 2022, 04:34:08 PM »
Quite surprised at the normally sensible Cllr @Steve Gribbon failing to understand how the 20mph measures help people on foot (or other means) and with social distancing. Some pavements in the area (particularly outside Travis Perkins for example) are ridiculously narrow and cluttered with street furniture. If people want to pass each other at a reasonable distance, that’s going to require one party briefly stepping into the road. Stating, quite angrily, “we walk on pavements” as if how dare any pedestrian need to use some of the THREE lanes of carriageway there is a really disappointing and misguided response to this matter. Luckily Malcolm Allan seemed to get it.

I use Marple on foot at least as often as by car; probably more and I don't see the point in the iniquitous 20mph limit. Note that you can't often do any more than that anyway, but having an actual limit is the action of people who give the impression of hating the people of Marple (and other places with the same bonkers idea). I'm sure they don't; they think they are helping and are well meaning, but if the limit persists, time will show how damaging it is.

Really, the problem is that the law allows councils to do this sort of thing. The real solution lies in changing the law to prevent it. That's where campaigning is really needed.

Perhaps however here isn't the place to discuss it any more, as I think everyone is aware of ever one else's view on the issue.



rsh

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #162 on: January 03, 2022, 02:28:01 PM »
https://stockport.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/616722/start_time/15199000?force_language_code=en_GB

Maybe Cllr @Steve Gribbon can update us after this meeting please?

Quite surprised at the normally sensible Cllr @Steve Gribbon failing to understand how the 20mph measures help people on foot (or other means) and with social distancing. Some pavements in the area (particularly outside Travis Perkins for example) are ridiculously narrow and cluttered with street furniture. If people want to pass each other at a reasonable distance, that’s going to require one party briefly stepping into the road. Stating, quite angrily, “we walk on pavements” as if how dare any pedestrian need to use some of the THREE lanes of carriageway there is a really disappointing and misguided response to this matter. Luckily Malcolm Allan seemed to get it.

admin

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #161 on: December 08, 2021, 08:34:14 AM »
The speed bumps on Stockport Road were covered at Marple Area Committee Meeting on 1st December.

Councillors were pretty clear on their views about this and their frustration at delays that have occurred in getting the matter resolved.

They are having a meeting with officers some time this week and they were hoping to delegate any decisions to that meeting so that they don't have to wait until the next MAC at the end of January 2022.

You can watch that back via this link:

https://stockport.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/616722/start_time/15199000?force_language_code=en_GB

Maybe Cllr @Steve Gribbon can update us after this meeting please?

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #160 on: December 06, 2021, 12:28:32 PM »
again though, it depends WHO the councillors spoke to. have you a link to the actual survey showing the questions posed,  an overview of the respondent demographic, details on how the  survey was conducted etc?
A large number of local residents..... is the phrase used, you'd have to ask the councillors for more specifics.. perhaps they didn't ask enough e-bike owners for your liking?
we can wait for the official consultation results which will show the information you're asking for, I believe they are due very soon.
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nbt

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #159 on: December 06, 2021, 12:23:04 PM »
again though, it depends WHO the councillors spoke to. have you a link to the actual survey showing the questions posed,  an overview of the respondent demographic, details on how the  survey was conducted etc?
NBT: Notoriously Bad Typist

jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #158 on: December 06, 2021, 12:20:12 PM »
Sorry that makes two people complaining about the speed bumps.
check your facts first @nbt
feedback from a large number of local residents garnered by local councillors resoundingly object to them: -
18% for
68% against
14% alternative measures
and perhaps look up the meaning of majority and minority
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
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nbt

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #157 on: December 06, 2021, 12:19:59 PM »
But bear  in mind also that govermnent guidance is that we don't prioritise cars and be wary of listening to shouty peple who object to everything...
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jimblob

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #156 on: December 06, 2021, 12:18:25 PM »
Bearing in mind that this forum is available to anyone who wants to use it, but is not overly active in terms of the number of posters - so far, @jimblob, there seems to be only YOU  complaining vociferously about this, while there are several others saying "no, this is actually great"

extrapolating that to the rest of Marple would seem to put you very much in the minority.

Buy an e-bike, use that where possible, drive your car SLOWLY if you really need to transport a fridge or a piano or something
lets wait for the results of the consultation to see who's in the minority @nbt. ref also to earlier correspondence provided by our local councillors where it was reported that...


feedback from a large number of local residents garnered by local councillors resoundingly object to them: -
18% for
68% against
14% alternative measures
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

nbt

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #155 on: December 06, 2021, 12:14:42 PM »
Sorry that makes two people complaining about the speed bumps.
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Condate

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Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #154 on: December 06, 2021, 11:54:56 AM »
Bearing in mind that this forum is available to anyone who wants to use it, but is not overly active in terms of the number of posters - so far, @jimblob, there seems to be only YOU  complaining vociferously about this, while there are several others saying "no, this is actually great"

extrapolating that to the rest of Marple would seem to put you very much in the minority.

Buy an e-bike, use that where possible, drive your car SLOWLY if you really need to transport a fridge or a piano or something

I have also complained about the insanity of the speed bumps. Ideally, they should be banned altogether, but at the very least, there should be much stricter conditions before such nonsense is allowed.