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Author Topic: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?  (Read 21574 times)

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simonesaffron

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2016, 09:55:22 AM »
I agree with most things that are being said on this thread about local councillors.

Local councillors should focus on local issues, bins, roads, parks, traffic, public realm and in our case anything to do with Marple. When they are members of a political party they get dragged down with party issues, borough issues even national issues.

Hatter, you make a good case for an Independent candidates. I for one, would certainly support one. I did hear some talk, about there being one, in Marple North this year, but so far it has come to nothing. 

Does anybody know who the candidates are in Marple, I know we've got John and Malcolm in North but who else is standing and who is this ex mayor that Hoffnung is referring to?  Surely that can't be true, an ex Labour Mayor standing for the Lib Dems ! 

 Are you making this up Hoffnung ?   

ringi

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2016, 11:53:13 PM »
Given that Manchester is better then Stockport for shopping from Marple.  Can it every benefit us when money is spend on central Stockport?

hatter76

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2016, 09:11:21 PM »
Whats the better deal for Marple explain .

You would get candidates that were only focused on the needs of Marple not Stockport as a whole or party interests. So for example, if the Council wants to invest £5 million on upgrading Stockport markets, Marple Independents could say OK but in return for our block 6 votes we want x£ to invest in Marple.  Policies that had no impact on Marple residents would be rejected without a local payback. If there was no majority on the Council you would hold the balance of power and team up with whoever promised you the most in return.

You would have to pursue populist policies and not propose anything controversial for it to hold together.

Its popular in Heald Green, so why not here? How does it operate there?
On a bigger scale it works in Scotland?

I am only discussing the idea, I'm not necessarily advocating it, what do others think?


amazon

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2016, 08:45:27 PM »
Wasn't the last local election heavily influenced by the general election, which produced a shift to the Conservatives. The Lib Dems nationally were unpopular during the 5 years of the coalition government. Remember Nick Clegg and tuition fees, they still had no problems winning in Marple. They will be back at some point just not sure when.

So where has the Lib Dem vote gone?
Some of the tactical voters who used to vote for them locally to keep the Tories out have gone back to Labour. This would explain the higher Labour vote at the last election.
Maybe some have stopped voting.
Have some switched to the Tories?

Another thing, UKIP. They have done OK in Marple the last few elections, they even polled 800 or so votes in Marple South at the time of the Euro elections. They would need to double their vote to win, which is unlikely but they are building up foundations. They could benefit from the European referendum momentum that will start building as the vote gets nearer.  This could take votes of the Tories letting the Lib Dems back in.


I read on here talk about Marple Independents. Would this work? Would we get a better deal out of Stockport  Council for Marple if they were focused just on our area?
Whats the better deal for Marple explain .

hatter76

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 08:17:13 PM »
Wasn't the last local election heavily influenced by the general election, which produced a shift to the Conservatives. The Lib Dems nationally were unpopular during the 5 years of the coalition government. Remember Nick Clegg and tuition fees, they still had no problems winning in Marple. They will be back at some point just not sure when.

So where has the Lib Dem vote gone?
Some of the tactical voters who used to vote for them locally to keep the Tories out have gone back to Labour. This would explain the higher Labour vote at the last election.
Maybe some have stopped voting.
Have some switched to the Tories?

Another thing, UKIP. They have done OK in Marple the last few elections, they even polled 800 or so votes in Marple South at the time of the Euro elections. They would need to double their vote to win, which is unlikely but they are building up foundations. They could benefit from the European referendum momentum that will start building as the vote gets nearer.  This could take votes of the Tories letting the Lib Dems back in.

I read on here talk about Marple Independents. Would this work? Would we get a better deal out of Stockport  Council for Marple if they were focused just on our area?

Malcolm Allan

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 08:12:11 PM »
To reply to Hoffnung's post yesterday, I’ve spent a lot of my life having my name turned backwards and mis-spelt, so I’m used to it.  You’ll find it’s on this forum and is the heading for at least one of the trails. My name is Malcolm Allan, and it’s been on the recent Lib Dem leaflets along with a picture. I’m like a lot of people who don’t like my picture but it is there, I’m, afraid. All residents also received a Christmas card with my name on it, and in my ward a handwritten letter from me.  Inevitably, there will be people who won’t have heard of me, but I’ve lived in Marple for 30 years, played cricket here, been a club captain, a league rep and so on. I also supported my kid’s pastimes like most parents so I was treasurer of Mellor Brownies for a while. All my three daughters were educated in the area and at St Mary’s and Harrytown I was involved with the various events and fundraisers including being Father Christmas for a few years - but hopefully not recognised. We all went to church as a family, we have used the shops and facilities in Marple as long as we've been here, and I've swum at Marple baths every week , give or take, for the last 19 years. All of my daughters have worked in shops, pubs, cafes, supermarkets or restaurants in Marple/Marple Bridge which I’ve therefore supported, and I've followed them around when they've done other things such as one who helped the Carver. I was brought up in Romiley and I’m still in touch with primary school colleagues and secondary school colleagues who live here. I organised the Werneth Low Run for 15 years and my name was on all the leaflets so lots of runners know me and again I’m still see some of them.  The chances are that me and Hoffnung will either know each other by sight, or have a common friend or a common interest or frequent the same place in the ward or something like that.  I’ll add just that I have 18 years experience as an independent and voluntary chair of various aspects of the work of another Council in Greater Manchester. 

Condate

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 05:08:53 PM »
Local elections should be about local issues, unfortunately people often confuse them with national issues. In reality its about bin collection, street cleaning, parks, housing, planning, transport, schools etc.

I agree completely. While some issues the council deals with do have an element of political philosophy involved and so different political parties will have differing views, for the most part, the decisions the council has to take have little if anything to do with party politics. Unfortunately, a great many people vote based on how they think a party is doing at a national level and this can and does lead to highly competent councillors of all parties losing their seats based on factors over which they have no control. For democracy to work, voters need to look at how the specific candidates either act as councillors, or would act if elected. If a candidate is an awful councillor or would make an awful councillor, it is not right that they get elected because people like what a party is doing nationally and conversely it is not right for a good councillor to lose their seat based on what his or her party is doing in parliament. Far better to get rid of party labels altogether at local level. Vote for candidates you know personally, or who have a record you know and admire, or who represent views you approve of.

Hoffnung

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 03:11:30 PM »
No Hatter,

Romiley and Marple are not similar in political colour. Romiley has had a mix of Conservative and Lib Dem Councillors for the last ten years. Marple (up until last year) has had a Lib Dem monopoly for the last 20 yrs. A change of Councillors is, as you say, good for democracy, but it isn't necessarily good for the constituents or for public services.

The political landscape in Stockport this year is very interesting. I was speaking with a Stockport Conservative councillor recently and he was telling me that the Conservatives are expecting to take a 'hatful' of seats from the Lib dems this year. It's easy to see why.  For a variety of reasons the Lib Dems have an inordinate number of established 'name recognition' councillors who are not contesting their own seats. Apart from both Marple seats (which the Conservatives should easily win) there is also; Hazel Grove, Stepping Hill and Cheadle Hulme South.

In addition to these five seats there is also the seat in Offerton. This is a puzzle, it is a marginal which was retained last year by the LDs. However the incumbent who is up this year under an LD banner won the seat as a Labour Councillor, then last year switched to the LDs, so anything could happen. All the current Labour seats and the Conservative seats look fairly safe for both of them.

There is no doubt that the LD party in Stockport looks in big trouble.

The irony of it all, is that with the current party tallies on seats being the way they are. If the Conservatives take 5 seats off the LDs and Labour take Offerton then that makes Labour the biggest party in Stockport.

Even more interesting still, if the Conservatives win the last two remaining Marple seats in 2018, then that could put Conservative, Labour and  LDs all with 20 seats each.       

Duke Fame

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2016, 10:32:52 PM »
The Conservatives got in in Romiley around 5 years ago. At the next local election the following year the Lib Dems got back in by a couple of votes, I am guessing its going to be a similar close election this time in both of the Marple wards.

In general I think its good for democracy for it to be close, it stops the councillors being complacent.

Local elections should be about local issues, unfortunately people often confuse them with national issues. In reality its about bin collection, street cleaning, parks, housing, planning, transport, schools etc.

And in the next year or so, the real issue of how it's paid for and council tax.

hatter76

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2016, 07:50:52 PM »
The Conservatives got in in Romiley around 5 years ago. At the next local election the following year the Lib Dems got back in by a couple of votes, I am guessing its going to be a similar close election this time in both of the Marple wards.

In general I think its good for democracy for it to be close, it stops the councillors being complacent.

Local elections should be about local issues, unfortunately people often confuse them with national issues. In reality its about bin collection, street cleaning, parks, housing, planning, transport, schools etc.

simonesaffron

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 05:51:04 PM »
Well, it would matter to me.

I like my local councillors to have political conviction and principle.

However, I think the point that is being made is about the party and not the candidate. The question is this, why would you field such a candidate anyway? The Lib Dems are already 628 votes behind, and have an almost impossible task, why make it even harder for yourself? Surely they could have found somebody from within their own ranks.

Duke Fame

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 04:47:51 PM »
Upon quick reflection, for those that are interested, try this.

Check out all the mayors from and including year 2000 to current one.

Obviously eliminate current mayor from the list then eliminate; current councillors, women mayors, conservative ones, Lib Dem ones, Heald Green Independents, Who is left - Bingo!   

I'm not that sure it matters if someone has been in the Labour party before, people change their politics / see the light or get thoroughly appalled by the direction their party is going (which is fairly likely in this case).

That said, I agree with the point above that party politics should not really matter at a local level.

Hoffnung

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 04:26:50 PM »
Upon quick reflection, for those that are interested, try this.

Check out all the mayors from and including year 2000 to current one.

Obviously eliminate current mayor from the list then eliminate; current councillors, women mayors, conservative ones, Lib Dem ones, Heald Green Independents, Who is left - Bingo!   

Hoffnung

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 04:20:17 PM »
Hello Admin,

Thanks for breaking this out, it is better for it.

I do know the name of this candidate but I don't think that it is appropriate for me to divulge, at least not in writing on this open forum. That should come from the lib dem membership and you won't be surprised to know that I am not one of them. Actually I am rather surprised that they haven't made an announcement, especially since they announced Allen Malcolm's candidacy before Christmas. Maybe they are hoping that if they leave it late nobody will notice that he is an ex Labour Mayor.

Duke Fame

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Re: What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 01:03:39 PM »
We now see how much the libdems improved the last government, there are getting punished for doing what was best for the country, rather then what was best for themselves!
The two times I have written to my new MP, he has not responded with anymore then a “I can’t be brother to think about what you said” letter.    That may have an effect on how I vote…

There is no risk of the SNP getting power in the local elections; therefore there is no need to avoid parities that may invite them into a government.

I don’t understand why local elections have people standing under national parties anyway and 90% of what is put out by the candidates are things they will have NO control over if they got in.   Therefore the candidate that “talks” most about what they WILL be able to do, may get my vote regardless of their party.

But, any party that gets there voters out on the day can win, given how low the turnout is.

Well said Rini, the reason we have candidates under national party banners usually means they are trying to climb hte greasy pole of party politics and not really worth condering as being on a council