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Author Topic: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA  (Read 217521 times)

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simonesaffron

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2014, 12:06:53 PM »
I think that both Belly and Dave's general perception of the situation is as accurate as you can be when you are speculating which of course with the possible exception of Wheels we all are. As Belly says it would be a wise move now for Councillors to wait (at least until the end of the year) and see exactly what the impact of the ASDA takeover seems to be.  It is of course true that whosoever the retailer that was considering buying CS is/was then the goalposts have been well and truly moved with the arrival of Asda and they will almost certainly be reconsidering their position as Asda will be a much fiercer competitor than the co-op.

The only thing that I would say in response to Belly is that we are obviously a traffic society. There is no getting away from it and although CS has been politically motivated, (no argument there) somebody with expertise in these matters is surely advising Councillors and if this traffic cannot be ameliorated within any scheme then  these 'experts' who are being employed for their expertise should be saying so. Perhaps they are,I don't know, but these Officers whatever they are saying must take some responsibility for whatever is the actual and eventual outcome.         

Dave

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »
Belly writes that his solution to the potential parking/traffic problem in Marple is for the Council to 're-think, or at least delay, implementation of its strategy on CS,' meaning, I assume, that the Council should withdraw it from the market pending an assessment of the impact on traffic and parking of the new Asda. 

Sensible idea, but my guess is that it may prove unnecessary.  As I wrote yesterday:
We already know that Chadwick Street was not an attractive proposition, because developer Kirkland failed to get anyone to take it.  And that was when the only competition was the Co-op!   As Simone rightly points out, now there is serious competition in the shape of Asda, that can only frighten the other supermarkets off even more.

I doubt whether the Council will get a supermarket to take Chadwick Street now, unless they are prepared to virtually give it away!

Belly

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2014, 09:44:40 AM »
Simone

Why blame the 'traffic experts' for something that has been politcally engineered? Afterall, planning applications are decided by politicians and not by the 'experts'. I've lost count of planing committees that I have attended where councillors make appalling 'planning' decisions which are entirely politically motivated and against strong officer advice, with the resultant appeal and cost award against the Council being shrugged off (most not in Stockport I hasten to add). I suspect that pressure was brought to bear in terms of getting officers on board with the CS scheme - as the CS scheme was, to all intents and purposes, a Council motivated propersition in response to Hibbert Lane.

My 'solution' in the short term at least is therfeore simple, the Council re-thinks, or at least delays, implementation of its strategy on CS. Whilst the CS area is no oil painting, it serves an important purpose. A purpose that was effectively ignored by the current consented scheme, which was then bulldozed through planning on a political ticket of 'anything but Hibbert Lane'. Thats politics all over. Not good planning.

Fortunately, the Council members still hold the trump card. The decision as to whether to sell CS or not. Again something that will be decided by Councillors. I would suggest that they sit back and take stock of what Asda might bring to the party at the Ridgedale Centre and then plan from there.

Not the cure all solution I grant you, but I would suggest, the pragmatic way forward in this case.

 
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simonesaffron

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2014, 09:16:48 AM »
Belly

We know it's the same old issue and for us lesser mortals we say traffic when we mean parking and perhaps parking when we mean traffic. However, it's all cars to us whatever you want to call it and there could quite simply be too many of them.

Thanks for the dissertation and you obviously have some expertise in this field which I respect but as you said yourself all you did was play the same old scratched record even to the extent of taking the easy mark and bashing the local Councillors yet again. I really do think that we should leave them out of this debate. They won't join it anyway and whatever they do they are  always going to be wrong in the eyes of many and they will be influenced by short - term political gain, they always are - they are politicians. Nevertheless they will have experts such as you to guide them. So what would your advice be? So maybe if and when your doom laden prophecy happens we should blame the traffic experts and not the politicians. They're only giving the people what thy think they want so that they themselves can keep winning elections. I can understand that.

If we are eventually to have two supermarkets in Marple then what are our prospects? Will we be poisoned as we sleep in our beds by traffic fumes? Will there be not a parking space in the whole of Marple to be had ever again? Will we wake up each morning to find crazed shoppers parked on our house drives? Will we be stranded in Marple for evermore unable to cross its border in any direction because of logjam. 

We all know what the problems are but are there any answers? Can Marple, two successful Supermarkets, local traders, traffic and parking be reconciled or is this insoluble and is another supermarket on CS the suicide note for Marple ?     

BacardiMan

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2014, 08:58:26 AM »
That's not the way you worded it .still think your a bit mixed up .
please explain, nobody else seems to think i am mixed up...

simonesaffron

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2014, 08:36:36 AM »
Nowhere in my missive did I compare Waitrose to Aldi, or to Sainsbury's, or indeed to Morrisons (which, incidentally, has lately found itself in a bit of serious schtuck, The Grocer magazine award or not). I was merely responding to Simonsaffron's Duke Fame's fatuous claim that Waitrose is worse than the Co-op.

I don't believe Barndoor that I made any such comparison  between Waitrose and the Co-op, "fatuous" or otherwise. If you read the postings properly you will see that the comparison that you quote was made by the one and only  Duke Fame. You can hardly expect anybody to take your assertions and speculations seriously if you can't get a simple bald fact right.


Dave

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2014, 07:45:42 AM »
AFAIK the fire station is going nowhere!

amazon

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2014, 08:21:38 PM »
Agreed.  We already know that Chadwick Street was not an attractive proposition, because developer Kirkland failed to get anyone to take it.  And that was when the only competition was the Co-op!   As Simone rightly points out, now there is serious competition in the shape of Asda, that can only frighten the other supermarkets off even more.

As for this:
....that's just good old wheels giving us his famous dance of the seven veils!  He coyly shows us a bit of ankle, and then vanishes for a few days.......    :D

Were do you think the fire station could go .?

amazon

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2014, 08:19:35 PM »
Mixed up ?? The petrol station that has the Co-op in it, simple.

That's not the way you worded it .still think your a bit mixed up .

Belly

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2014, 06:16:33 PM »

2.   The retail area of the Co-op is only 17,000 sq ft.  If Asda want to extend that space, for example by demolishing the four small shops next door, they will need planning consent.  SMBC may well take a view that the car parking is insufficient for a 25,000 sq.ft store, and either refuse it, or put conditions on it, such as requiring Asda to provide more car parking space.  This would presumably have to be either at an upper level or underground.  Either way it's expensive. 

ASDA would then probably make reference to the large amounts of evidence that suggest that making a store bigger doesn't necessarily make it significantly more popular in terms of visits. Increase in RFA does undoubtedly increase each individual shoppers spend, as wider range of items often just means you buy more, when you do visit.

It certainly will be interesting to see how it all pans out!  ???
Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

Dave

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2014, 05:38:54 PM »
we're all doomed!  ;D

Belly's case is a persuasive one, and he could well prove to be right in his apocalyptic vision of the future.    :o

Two things to bear in mind, however:

1.   It is open to Asda to control parking in their car park more effectively than the Co-op have.  For example, they could adopt the scheme which Sainsbury's use in the Stockport town centre store.  It costs £5 to park for up to two hours, and you get that refunded if you spend at least a fiver in the store.

2.   The retail area of the Co-op is only 17,000 sq ft.  If Asda want to extend that space, for example by demolishing the four small shops next door, they will need planning consent.  SMBC may well take a view that the car parking is insufficient for a 25,000 sq.ft store, and either refuse it, or put conditions on it, such as requiring Asda to provide more car parking space.  This would presumably have to be either at an upper level or underground.  Either way it's expensive. 

wheels

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2014, 05:10:34 PM »
Are interested, or were interested? I would have thought that coop selling to Asda might make them reconsider as Asda will provide real a competitor where as the coop wouldn't have.

As of last Friday

wheels

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2014, 05:08:20 PM »
Can you tell us who these retailers are please? I am hoping one is Aldi or Lidl.

No of course I can't you would all know where it came from and it would be a massive breach of confidence.

Sorry that's just the position I am in.

Belly

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2014, 04:54:12 PM »
I think that the acquisition of the co-op by Asda will make everybody re-think the situation at least I hope that it will.

There is a traffic conundrum in Marple which nobody as far as I know has been able to solve. I think that Asda will be successful in Marple and that they will bring a competitively priced quality product to the town. This though will bring more traffic and if they ultimately extend their store then it will bring even more. Then there are the traffic implications if Chadwick Street is developed.

Where are all these cars going to go does anybody know. How are we going to ameliorate this traffic situation if we have two 25,000 sf supermarkets within three hundred metres of each other in Marple.?   

Simone

This is the same old issue that was hashed and re-hashed by MIA. The problem isnt traffic, Marple will cope with this, its all about parking. The vast majority of people that will shop in the old Coop / new Asda will be existing Marple residents or people from those immediate surrounding towns already driving through Marple to get to an existing 'out of Marple' store. The same will apply to an 'extended' co-op / Asda store and equally to a 'new store' at Chadwick Street. New foodstores don't generate a great deal of 'new traffic' rather they redistribute existing foodstore related traffic and alter existing shopping patterns. Afterall, why should an additional store make an individual carry out more and more trips to foodstores. I can promise you that there have been many, many studies that have looked at this. Bottom line is, the vast majority of the traffic that will travel to these foodstores is already inherent to Marple - at the moment though this traffic eventually finds its way out of the town and parks in large car parks at Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda, et al. This will change......

As I've bleated on now for ages like a scratched record, Marple faces a real parking issue in future, both with and without Asda replacing the co-op. The town suffers from a limited parking supply that is scattered all over the place. Only two large car parks exist, one at Co-op / Asda and the other at Chadwick Street (CS). In practice the existing Co-op car park barely copes with demand and CS acts as the vital 'pressure release valve' for the rest of the town during busy periods, whilst also serving local shops and businesses. Should only the Asda make-over of the Ridgedale Centre take place, then I suspect that the town will probably cope - but get ready for the potential need to lug your supermarket shopping across the road to Chadwick Street from time to time, as I suspect that at busy times (Saturday mornings / early afternoon), finding a space in the Co-op / Asda car park will be very, very difficlut.

If both developments go forward, then I really fear for the town. The CS proposals are ill-concieved in the critical regard of parking. The CS scheme effectively removes the existing car park and replaces it with a woefully under-sized rooftop 'semi-private' car park associated with another foodstore. The level of parking proposed in the CS scheme is barely enough to cater for the foodstore demand (I personally don't even think that it washes its face on this score) let alone all the current 'pressure valve' / local parking that currently takes place on the exitsing CS car park. The parking case for the CS development was seemingly cobbled together based on some limited weekend traffic data collected in the summer time and was based on the principle that current presure valve / local parking on CS would effectively be forced off the current car park into the remainder of the surrounding small public car parks scattered about the town. This may well break down in practice as it effectively relies on a person driving into Marple knowing in which car park a spare space is availbale - hence SMBC's condition on the CS scheme to provide 'real time' parking signage on the approach to the town, to try to guide people to available spaces. I have real concerns as to the effectiveness and downright practicalities of such a system working successfully in Marple, as many of the car parks are cramped, difficult to access and unsuited to the effective installation of real time data.

Even if it could work (and during events such as the food festival, christmas cracker, carnival, etc it certainly will not), what also worries me is that the previous CS case was based on the assumption of the Ridgedale Centre remaining the Co-op, with all the inherent issues of poor service and the towns disenchantment with that particular offer. Combine the CS scheme with a rejuveated Ridgedale Centre (under Asda) and I can only see a potential disaster that the town is sleepwalking towards. And who will suffer? Not the foodstore operators, but the remaining local retailers on Market St, whose customers could be shunted out. Thanks community, well played local councillors.

One of the only good things about the former Hibbert Lane proposals was that it wouldn't mess up the town centres ability to react to parking demand - as it provided a nice big self contained site. The granting of the CS proposals has potentially put a great big ticking timebomb under the town, which the Council could trip if they get their way and flog the site. They have been warned about this, but chose to ignore it at the planning application stage (for political expediency?) and equally MIA were negligibly silent on this issue. I hope we don't reap what we have sowed.....


Apologies. Rant over. But we're all doomed!  ;D
Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

Dave

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Re: Sale of the Marple CO-OP to ASDA
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2014, 04:34:15 PM »
Are interested, or were interested? I would have thought that coop selling to Asda might make them reconsider as Asda will provide real a competitor where as the coop wouldn't have.

Agreed.  We already know that Chadwick Street was not an attractive proposition, because developer Kirkland failed to get anyone to take it.  And that was when the only competition was the Co-op!   As Simone rightly points out, now there is serious competition in the shape of Asda, that can only frighten the other supermarkets off even more.

As for this:
I have the same information Simone. As I understand it there are one and a half retailers interested in the site. One is very very interested and other is still thinking.

....that's just good old wheels giving us his famous dance of the seven veils!  He coyly shows us a bit of ankle, and then vanishes for a few days.......    :D