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Author Topic: Who makes the decisions?  (Read 4232 times)

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Steve Gribbon

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2020, 09:53:34 PM »
Thank you Steve for bringing the marpletraffic@gmail.com link to this forum where it will get far greater prominence.

Although the Walk Ride Consultation period is over, the problems most certainly aren’t

So can you arrange for an interactive map as was provided by Romiley Walk Ride Group which enabled residents to pin point their comments and which received over 2000 responses.

We can then easily see where the problems are and offer our solutions and, hopefully, our Councillors can take  our comments forward to whoever decides what to do.

Thanks


Thank you for your message

I will speak to Aron Thornley who is the walk/ride lead for us and see if anything map-wise has been developed, if this is the case I will request he places a link on this thread. Please feel free to use the marpletraffic@gmail.com email address with any thoughts and I will of course keep checking on here for the same.

Kind regards

Steve

badger

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2020, 08:20:54 PM »
Was there a shared space suggestion a while ago? what happened to that, it would keep traffic to a 20mph speed.

CTCREP

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2020, 04:54:19 PM »
Thank you Steve for bringing the marpletraffic@gmail.com link to this forum where it will get far greater prominence.

Although the Walk Ride Consultation period is over, the problems most certainly aren’t

So can you arrange for an interactive map as was provided by Romiley Walk Ride Group which enabled residents to pin point their comments and which received over 2000 responses.

We can then easily see where the problems are and offer our solutions and, hopefully, our Councillors can take  our comments forward to whoever decides what to do.

Thanks

Steve Gribbon

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2020, 09:59:15 AM »
Good morning

Firstly my apologies for not posting the email address or related information on this site, it was a genuine oversight and all being well will not happen again.

The marpletraffic@gmail.com email address was set up because we Councillors were receiving a lot of correspondence regarding this matter, to me it was the easiest way to collate opinions (I must stress all contact details have remained private on the site).

The decision not to do a simple tick box survey was made because I did not believe it would allow people to add in their own personal views. I was very grateful with the amount of people who responded and I would welcome members of this site to come forward with their thoughts as they can be forwarded accordingly. All information received is being passed to highways officers for consideration.

It is correct that a larger proportion of comments were anti speed bumps but very few were against a 20MPH zone, there were a variety of different reasons why ranging from health issues to the environment and vehicle damage. This issue has raised the profile of how do we create a safe area for our Town Centre. I am currently working on a project which identifies how other places have improved their district centres and hope (depending on restrictions being lifted) to be presenting what information I have and I will of course be using this site to do so.

I hope this clarifies any issues regarding my involvement with the speed bumps and once again admin my apologies for missing this site off.

Kind regards and stay safe

Steve

admin

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2020, 08:23:07 AM »
Incidentally I will be happy to share my views with Aaron.  If anyone would actually tell me how to.  Because that hasn't actually been revealed to me.

My personal views have been clear on this website already.  I am happy with a 20mph zone but the current speed bumps are not nice to drive over.

It was Councillor @Steve Gribbon who shared the email address marpletraffic@gmail.com and invited residents to share their views on the speed humps and other measures. Unfortunately he has omitted or chosen not to share it on this forum as far as I can see.
Mark Whittaker
The Marple Website

rsh

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2020, 12:08:54 AM »
The good news is Romiley’s humps will be replaced with far better, flatter speed tables and the centre will keep the 20mph limit as part of its WalkRide/Bee Network improvements.

https://consultation.stockport.gov.uk/policy-performance-and-reform/romiley-crossings-consultation/

The temporary humps in both came from the “Safe Streets Save Lives” effort, a pot of money shared by Greater Manchester to calm streets and aid walking and cycling during COVID-19 (the thinking partly being its easier to step into or cross a 20mph calmed road if need be than what these centres used to be like).

Romiley is getting better, more permanent measures installed to enable safer walking and cycling (with a full consultation) because it has a very active and successful WalkRide group of residents who worked really hard to engage with people and make this happen over several years. Hopefully WalkRide Marple (and Marple’s councillors) can do the same here before too long.

andrewbowden

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2020, 07:23:49 PM »
A best of three votes approach  ;)
"hundreds of responses" but we didn't like the stats so we'll try again?

Incidentally I will be happy to share my views with Aaron.  If anyone would actually tell me how to.  Because that hasn't actually been revealed to me.

My personal views have been clear on this website already.  I am happy with a 20mph zone but the current speed bumps are not nice to drive over.

andrewbowden

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2020, 07:21:33 PM »
to quote from Cllr Steve Gribbons request for feedback on these speed humps.

"We have recieved several hundred messages that have resulted in the following...
For 18%
Against 68%
Other suggestions 14%"

Once this news was published, all but 1 of the 70 reactions to the post of Marple Community Hub facebook page gave this result a thumbs up!
I firmly believe that this meesage clearly shows that Marple residents don't want them Andrew Bowden

It is well known that people who are anti something tend to be very vocal.  People who don't mind, less so.

People who don't mind things, don't tend to make their voices clear.

And that is the reality. You don't have a representative survey.  You have a survey that is self selecting.  And that is not the same.

Now it may be that you are right.  That Marple is very anti speed bumps.  But I doubt you will find many statisticians who will say you have proof of that right now.



jimblob

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2020, 05:06:16 PM »
It could be that Cllr @Aron Thornley has been trying to get people who do support the speed humps to speak up because usually people who are happy don't complain. He may be trying to obtain a more balanced picture. But by tagging him in the post Aron may decide to tell us himself.
A best of three votes approach  ;)
"hundreds of responses" but we didn't like the stats so we'll try again?

admin

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2020, 05:01:57 PM »
I firmly believe that this message clearly shows that Marple residents don't want them Andrew Bowden
It could be that Cllr @Aron Thornley has been trying to get people who do support the speed humps to speak up because usually people who are happy don't complain. He may be trying to obtain a more balanced picture. But by tagging him in the post Aron may decide to tell us himself.
Mark Whittaker
The Marple Website

jimblob

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2020, 04:26:05 PM »
Who says Marple residents don't want them?  Who says the decision is being made by someone out of touch?  Like I said before, there are many many views.  And those who shout loudest are not always the majority.  A comment I noticed Grant Shapps - Secretary of State for Transport - recently made to councils by the way.
to quote from Cllr Steve Gribbons request for feedback on these speed humps.

"We have recieved several hundred messages that have resulted in the following...
For 18%
Against 68%
Other suggestions 14%"

Once this news was published, all but 1 of the 70 reactions to the post of Marple Community Hub facebook page gave this result a thumbs up!
I firmly believe that this meesage clearly shows that Marple residents don't want them Andrew Bowden

andrewbowden

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2020, 02:31:29 PM »

andrewbowden

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2020, 02:28:13 PM »
Hello Howard

You said:-

B) we live in a representative democracy.  We vote for people to make decisions on our behalf, not to run every single decision past us.  Any elected representative is doing their job by taking a stance and running with it.
 


The significant point here is word ‘Representative’. Our Councillors are elected to represent our views, not their own.

Yeah, like it or not, I don't think that really sums up our democracy.

To take an example from Westminster - If we voted for people to represent our views, not their own, we'd still have capital punishment.  Until relatively recently, our elected representatives in Westminster were very out of kilter with the public view on that one.  For decades the majority of the public were in favour of it.  Yet we got rid of it.

We get the opportunity at elections to vote for the person who "best" fits our views.  And that's it.  After that, it's down to the winner.  Be it in Westminster or Stockport Council.  If you don't like what the person does, then you have to wait til the next election and try and get rid of them.  That's the system.

Quote
You could argue that the system should be changed and there should be more public consultation.  Hey, maybe even lots of local referendums.  But that is a whole other debate.


This is actually my point and the purpose of this Topic.

I do not remember seeing any Official Notice saying the Council intended to put road humps down in Marple.  Usually this is done by notices attached to Lamp Posts etc. which of course are not read by motorists who will be mainly affected by the proposal.

I thought we may have been consulted through the Transport for Greater Manchester’s Walk Ride GM scheme.  There is a Marple Walk Ride Group. but this is said to be accessible through Facebook. Several other areas also have a Twitter Account.  While not a fan of either I reluctantly tried to join the Marple Walk Ride Facebook Group about a month ago and I am still waiting to be accepted.  In the mean time, apparently, Cllr Thornley is trying to drum up support for the Road Humps having never asked Marple Residents if we wanted them in the first place. 

I cannot understand why the proposal to put Road Humps in Marple wasn’t publicised more widely and particularly through this Web Site, and I would like to know  who, how and why the Road Humps decision was made.

So, yes, we need to change the system as at present it appears someone, largely out of touch with present day thinking, is making decisions for Marple that affect us all and we aren’t being given any opportunity discuss the situation first.

Who says Marple residents don't want them?  Who says the decision is being made by someone out of touch?  Like I said before, there are many many views.  And those who shout loudest are not always the majority.  A comment I noticed Grant Shapps - Secretary of State for Transport - recently made to councils by the way.


Anyway, I don't know much about the ins and outs of the decision making, but it was discussed in another thread.  Where you will see there are various views.
https://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=8735.45

If you look at reply 23, Admin mentioned this was discussed at the Marple Area Committee.  "I seem to recall some reasons were offered around the money not being available for long enough to do [a consultation]"
https://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=8735.msg51859#msg51859

Worth noting - these changes are temporary, related to Covid-19.  They may become permanent.  They may not.  There are apparently various related schemes across Stockport.

CTCREP

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2020, 01:53:52 PM »
Hello Howard

You said:-

B) we live in a representative democracy.  We vote for people to make decisions on our behalf, not to run every single decision past us.  Any elected representative is doing their job by taking a stance and running with it. 
 


The significant point here is word ‘Representative’. Our Councillors are elected to represent our views, not their own.

You could argue that the system should be changed and there should be more public consultation.  Hey, maybe even lots of local referendums.  But that is a whole other debate.


This is actually my point and the purpose of this Topic.

I do not remember seeing any Official Notice saying the Council intended to put road humps down in Marple.  Usually this is done by notices attached to Lamp Posts etc. which of course are not read by motorists who will be mainly affected by the proposal.

I thought we may have been consulted through the Transport for Greater Manchester’s Walk Ride GM scheme.  There is a Marple Walk Ride Group. but this is said to be accessible through Facebook. Several other areas also have a Twitter Account.  While not a fan of either I reluctantly tried to join the Marple Walk Ride Facebook Group about a month ago and I am still waiting to be accepted.  In the mean time, apparently, Cllr Thornley is trying to drum up support for the Road Humps having never asked Marple Residents if we wanted them in the first place. 

I cannot understand why the proposal to put Road Humps in Marple wasn’t publicised more widely and particularly through this Web Site, and I would like to know  who, how and why the Road Humps decision was made.

So, yes, we need to change the system as at present it appears someone, largely out of touch with present day thinking, is making decisions for Marple that affect us all and we aren’t being given any opportunity discuss the situation first.

andrewbowden

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Re: Who makes the decisions?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2020, 07:07:47 PM »
surely Councillors should report their constituent’s preferences, not campaign for one particular approach - .

A) I know from this forum that lots of people have differing views.  So which should a councillor report as a preference.

B) we live in a representative democracy.  We vote for people to make decisions on our behalf, not to run every single decision past us.  Any elected representative is doing their job by taking a stance and running with it.  You could argue that the system should be changed and there should be more public consultation.  Hey, maybe even lots of local referendums.  But that is a whole other debate.