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Author Topic: Safer Walking and Cycling  (Read 3212 times)

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andrewbowden

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2020, 04:44:18 PM »
If anyone would like more data, there's a shed load of it in this document. 
https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/3OOAkf1PSgQGUqiseGcOoI/09e308f5cb7e0013674e79ee7a74fa1c/04._GM_2040_TS_Evidence_base_-_Published_Feb_2017.pdf

It's 172 pages so no I haven't read it all.  But here's some that caught my eye.

* 2.1billion Journeys per year are made by Greater Manchester residents; approximately 5.7million Journeys per day
* 40% are made by car by the driver - so 0.84billion car journeys.  18.6% are a car journey made by a passenger.
* Almost half of trips made by Greater Manchester residents are fewer than 2km in length.
* 67% of trips up to 1 km are made on foot and 30% by car

You'll never make car journeys zero.  It's impossible.  But you can change some.  The opportunity is there.  The opportunity is huge in itself.

andrewbowden

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2020, 04:35:36 PM »
Yeah yeah quibble quibble over stats, miss the point as you go...

I'll quote Chris Boardman directly from a Sustrans/TfGM report.  Page 2.
https://www.sustrans.org.uk/media/5950/bikelife19_greater-manchester_web.pdf

"around 200 million journeys made by car in Greater Manchester every year are less than one kilometre"

Shall we repeat that?

"around 200 million journeys made by car in Greater Manchester every year are less than one kilometre"

Right there, right now there are 200 million car journeys that could be reduced.  Half a million a day.

This is how you start making change.  You cut away at those 200 million car journeys.  Then you look at the journeys that are 2km or less.  Then 3km or less.

And you make change.

Or you just sit there, quibble about how stats are presented, and nothing ever happens.



jimblob

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2020, 03:55:42 PM »
and TfGM in stating that

"One third of all journeys under 1km in Greater Manchester are made by car – that’s about a 5-minute bike ride or a 10-minute walk! "

means that two thirds of all journeys under 1km are NOT made by car, so actually more people are walking or cycling for shorter journeys already
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

jimblob

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2020, 03:51:10 PM »
According to Transport for Greater Manchester a third of all car journeys are under 1km.
https://twitter.com/OfficialTfGM/status/1277527691919491074?s=19

That's a THIRD of all car journeys that could be done by a ten minute walk or a 5 minute cycle ride.

This is the opportunity.  We can take a significant amount of traffic off our roads ridiculously easily.  We just need to get out of our cars.
the statistic is cleverley worded, one third of all journey's under 1km are made by car. Not that a third of all car journeys could be done by walking...
So the statistic gives very little indication of how many journeys that actually is nor does it bear any relation to how many car journeys could be replaced by walking or cycling. For all we know this might only represent a tiny fraction of all car journeys.
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

Andy

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2020, 01:17:24 PM »
My 'proposal' was crafted in 10 minutes, to answer a specific question.

I'm yet to see any counter proposals other than maintain the status quo, which isn't tenable. As Andrew points out a third of journeys could be easily replaced if people felt safer walking and cycling. As far as I'm concerned Stockport road is already a car park - it is when I use it.

So, for those who dislike the suggestions I proposed - what do you think should be done?

andrewbowden

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2020, 01:08:14 PM »
nobody is saying that we should get rid of all cars - as you say, they're necessary for a lot of reasons. We're just saying that where it's practical to do so, and people want to do so, we should make it safer and easier for people to travel by means other than cars. It means there's less traffic on the roads for those who still need (or just want) to use cars, which means it's safer for EVERYONE

According to Transport for Greater Manchester a third of all car journeys are under 1km.
https://twitter.com/OfficialTfGM/status/1277527691919491074?s=19

That's a THIRD of all car journeys that could be done by a ten minute walk or a 5 minute cycle ride.

This is the opportunity.  We can take a significant amount of traffic off our roads ridiculously easily.  We just need to get out of our cars.

jimblob

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2020, 12:49:53 PM »
nobody is saying that we should get rid of all cars - as you say, they're necessary for a lot of reasons. We're just saying that where it's practical to do so, and people want to do so, we should make it safer and easier for people to travel by means other than cars. It means there's less traffic on the roads for those who still need (or just want) to use cars, which means it's safer for EVERYONE
You've hit the nail on the head there NBT, "where it's practical to do so" ..... the practicalities of Andy's proposal are non-existent in terms of wider mitigation for the impact they'd have on motorists. Every proposed initiative seems to use "less cars on the road" as it's single justification but this reduction would be so minute when measured against the impact such propsals would have on motorists as to cause utter chaos.
Poynton is lovely, it's also confusing and has impacted traffic to the extent that they're soon to get a bypass. Where are the plans for a Marple bypass?  .... surely not, build another road, that's a terrible idea!
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

nbt

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2020, 12:03:29 PM »
nobody is saying that we should get rid of all cars - as you say, they're necessary for a lot of reasons. We're just saying that where it's practical to do so, and people want to do so, we should make it safer and easier for people to travel by means other than cars. It means there's less traffic on the roads for those who still need (or just want) to use cars, which means it's safer for EVERYONE


NBT: Notoriously Bad Typist

jimblob

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2020, 11:07:33 AM »
I really hope that if anything like this is seriously proposed, there will be public consultation and an opportunity to object.
Totally agree with Condate. Whilst a plan to prioritise the pedestrian and cyclist is valid, without wider mitigation to deal with the impact to motorists this would turn stockport road into a carpark. Air quality would take a massive dive as cars would be continually queuing, stopping and starting. Stop penalising the motorist based on utopean ideals of safety and reduced traffic.
Stephen is correct...
Like I have said before I have been a cyclist for many years and still am but I entirely disagree with the current vogue of motorist bad, cyclists good. Like it or not without the motorist and yes - cars the country would be in a dreadful state. It's time to accept that cars are needed and yes they bring in immense amount of money to the public purse both national and local.
It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens
--- Woody Allen

Andy

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2020, 05:11:35 PM »
Absolutely, there has to be input from everyone and a proper democratic process. It would be more productive to contribute to the debate than outright refuse any changes - it would give you a chance to explain why you don't want safer walking routes to local primary schools.

When you see some of the improvements in other parts of Greater Manchester you do get the sense that we are being left out.

As someone who today tipped over 50K miles on a car approaching its 3rd birthday I'm certainly a driver, make no mistake. There is an issue that does need to be addressed though, we can't fit any more cars on our roads. Fossil fuels are bad for short journeys and replacing petrol cars with electric ones still doesn't resolve the traffic issue. What do we do?

I'm sure there were similar discussions when Market Street was pedestrianised and the 'new road' was put in by the swimming baths. Now none of us can imagine it any other way.


Andy

Condate

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2020, 04:53:18 PM »
I've been giving this some further thought, which I have captured in an image below - I'm sure there will be some issues, but I've prioritised Children, Pedestrians and cycling over car movements and reallocated some public space away from car use to seating and shopping.

I really hope that if anything like this is seriously proposed, there will be public consultation and an opportunity to object.

Stephen

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2020, 04:49:49 PM »
Like I have said before I have been a cyclist for many years and still am but I entirely disagree with the current vogue of motorist bad, cyclists good. Like it or not without the motorist and yes - cars the country would be in a dreadful state. It's time to accept that cars are needed and yes they bring in immense amount of money to the public purse both national and local.

Deniseredmini

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2020, 03:43:54 PM »
Regarding Ludworth Primary.  It would be good to have some kind of traffic calming measures along the front on Lower Fold.  Also lollipop person like we used to have many years ago.  I'm not entirely sure about a bridge as the exit to the park would be behind the council depot.  Could be quite dark on a winter's evening. People would also have to walk up a path through the field area and in winter that could be quite tricky underfoot as it is quite steep at the school side.

Andy

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2020, 01:04:22 PM »
I've been giving this some further thought, which I have captured in an image below - I'm sure there will be some issues, but I've prioritised Children, Pedestrians and cycling over car movements and reallocated some public space away from car use to seating and shopping.

Lots of LAs have recently secured central government funding for these initiatives and I think that making Marple pedestrian friendly would be a massive step in the right direction!




I'll also point people towards the 'walk ride marple' facebook group. If this is your thing and you are on Facebook, join the group.

Victor M

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Re: Safer Walking and Cycling
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
There is a good article on the BBC web site https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-53143359/want-to-start-cycling-to-work-here-s-how giving advice to would be cyclists and it also gives reasons why cyclists do certain things at certain times.