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Author Topic: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge  (Read 7411 times)

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Condate

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2021, 12:54:37 PM »
Maybe I'm showing my age nbt, but practically everyone I went to primary and secondary school with walked unless they were from outside of Marple & Marple bridge regardless of the weather.

When I went to primary school, most either walked, or like me, got the bus and walked from the bus terminus.

For secondary school, it was a walk to the station, a fourteen mile train journey , followed by a two mile bus or walk. 

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2021, 12:37:55 PM »
Maybe I'm showing my age nbt, but practically everyone I went to primary and secondary school with walked unless they were from outside of Marple & Marple bridge regardless of the weather.

nbt

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2021, 10:29:29 AM »
@GM
I'd rather have a stack of Tesla's on Lower Fold as we walk to school r

I'd rather more people walked their children to school, a large part of the issue is the sheer number of vehicles on the road. We need fewer cars, not newer cars
NBT: Notoriously Bad Typist

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2021, 04:31:39 PM »
Whilst I'm not a denier of man made carbon emissions, the phrase "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" always rings true.

Personally I think we need to restart nuclear power to provide a base load power grid, as the more renewable you add the greater the base load is required to prevent rolling blackouts.

Move to seawater hydrogen using excess wind power at night, as they shut them down when it's too windy.

Burning huge quantities of natural gas to produce electricity just adds to the co2 and knowing the debacle that is Drax using wood imported from America is just a taxpayer funded waste as they don't include the co2 from shipping it half way across the globe.

Andy

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2021, 02:34:30 PM »
@GM it depends on which problem you are trying to fix.

You would reduce local NO2 levels by scrapping and moving to electric vehicles but this wouldn't necessarily have a net positive effect on global CO2.

Somewhere in amongst all the nonsense on the subject I posed a question about a Tesla and my Dads ancient Defender. The Defender by one measure is an eco friendly vehicle. (Embedded carbon) but the Tesla is eco friendly on another measure. One is much safer for driver and pedestrians in an accident.

I'd rather have a stack of Tesla's on Lower Fold as we walk to school rather than defenders, but the production of that many cars (unless net zero like VW) wouldn't in and of itself have a positive impact on climate change.

There is absolutely no evidence to support the status quo though.

Andy

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2021, 05:46:09 PM »
Whilst this isn't an exact response, how is scrapping or being forced to replace a commercial vehicle built before 2016 helping the environment ?.

It's not as one would at first assume, removing old smoke belching vehicles as emissions have been regulated and part of your MOT for decades.

And being forced to replace your vehicle just shifts the problem, as they'll just sell your car abroad.

Belly

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2021, 05:18:49 PM »
Since when does legislation (local or national) seeking to encourage people away from driving polluting vehicles not represent 'the general good'?

What is this obsession with being able to drive a private vehicle anywhere you want regardless of the consequences? Its like some form of collective madness! Whilst I recognise that the 'freedom' that cars can offer the individual is a fantatsic luxury, the road deaths, pollution and sheer amount of public space that they such vehicles take up, is hard to continue to justify without control.

In terms of the pollution zones, has it ever occured to you that a high proportion of the traffic in such zones is probaly generated by supposedly less polluting zones - I'm sure, for example, that people in offerton & bredbiry are grateful for the honour of breathing in the particulates emitted from Marple resident's vehicles. But hey, we are alright jack.

Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

Howard

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2021, 11:18:57 PM »
I can smell the gammon from here.
Howard

Condate

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2021, 07:28:44 PM »
Why ten years?  Marple became part of Greater Manchester in 1974.  That's 47 years.  That's longer than I have been alive.  If in 47 years there has been no great uprising against the Mancunian Oppressors, I am baffled as to why there would be one 57 years after the event. 

Marple isn't going to change.  No one cares enough.  Government policy is based around simplifying local government structures.  It's going to be like this for a long time.

Ah well. At least there is Wikishire to remind us of the pre 1936 borders.

https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Marple

https://wikishire.co.uk/map/#/centre=53.401,-2.057/zoom=14


I'd still be interested to know the results of the consultation though. I'd be particularly interested in the difference in response between the centre and the periphery.  I would expect it to be considerable.

I could understand the centre supporting the idea, but not the outlying areas.  There does seem to be a determination to extend the restrictions well beyond what might be considered a reasonable area.




GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2021, 07:20:56 PM »
Andrew what would you like us to do to show our dislike of being lumped with Greater Manchester ?.

Would you like free Marple flags hung on the many surrounding bridges or some form of peasants uprising ?.

Pitchfork protest around Costa or Dominos ?.

Or a slow boat down the canal impeding canal boaters like they do on the M25 ?.

andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2021, 07:00:38 PM »
Let's see in 10 years or so the strength of the secessionist movement, not just in Marple, but in all the occupied territories, both of Cheshire and Lancashire. We are obviously not going to agree on this either. Time will tell.

Why ten years?  Marple became part of Greater Manchester in 1974.  That's 47 years.  That's longer than I have been alive.  If in 47 years there has been no great uprising against the Mancunian Oppressors, I am baffled as to why there would be one 57 years after the event. 

Marple isn't going to change.  No one cares enough.  Government policy is based around simplifying local government structures.  It's going to be like this for a long time. 



Cyberman

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2021, 06:47:58 PM »
My concern with all this is what happens when the restrictions are applied to private cars. Comparing with the London zone it seems only electric cars are exempt. I could be wrong here but my car which is a hybrid is not exempt. Good luck with fitting all the terraced housing of Marple with charging points.

Dave

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2021, 05:43:24 PM »
It's the Clean Air Zone which is coming to major cities in May and June.

As Howard points put, this is not just a Greater Manchester developmemt - clean air zones are being introduced all over the country, following the one that has existed in London for a few years (ULEZ) and which has recently been expanded to cover the whole area inside the North and South Circular roads. 

The exceptional feature of the Greater Manchester scheme, however, is that it covers the entire GM area - all ten metropoitan boroughs.   Other cities seem to be introducing the zones in much smaller areas in and around their centres, where there is a real issue about harmful levels of NO2 in the atmosphere.  Here's the Birmingham map, for example:  https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/20076/pollution/1763/a_clean_air_zone_for_birmingham/3

..... and here's the Bristol map:  https://bristol.citizenspace.com/growth-regeneration/traffic-clean-air-zone/

But if you look at the GM map (https://cleanairgm.com/clean-air-zone-map/) you can see the sections of road where there is an issue about a concentration of NO2, and there are none in or around Marple apart from a very short stretch of Stockport Road near Seventeen Windows.

I have no objection to such restrictions being introduced where they are necessary, but it appears that Greater Manchester is going far beyond what is actually necessary.

Condate

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2021, 04:27:47 PM »
I'm asthmatic. 

So is my wife. She is not so selfish as to put her health above the general good. Perhaps some people are. I don't think we are going to agree on this one.


Your regular reminder that no single person on this forum is representative of everyone in the area.

You may think Marple has nothing to do with Manchester.  You may not want anything to do with the place.  But you are ABSOLUTELY NOT "we".  You do not represent everyone.

Clearly not everyone, no.  Let's see in 10 years or so the strength of the secessionist movement, not just in Marple, but in all the occupied territories, both of Cheshire and Lancashire. We are obviously not going to agree on this either. Time will tell.


Time will also tell the wisdom or otherwise of the current policy on pollution control. In 10 years or so, it will either be hailed as a great success, or condemned as a catastrophe. We will see.

I haven't seen the result of the consultation. Are they any links to it, with a breakdown of views per area? Obviously I responded to it and it would be interesting to see if yet again, the public's views were ignored, or if people really did think it was a good idea.




andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2021, 03:49:07 PM »
So, it's national government we need to change.

Good luck with that.  Cos I suspect whoever replaces this government (and whenever) will have similar policies.

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Does Marple really have that much pollution?

Irrelevant.  Marple isn't a borough.  And you can wish all you like, but Marple Urban District Council is never coming back.

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Both my wife and I have considerable problems with air pollution in some places (although not Marple). It can make us, and particularly my wife, quite ill.  However, we are not so selfish that we want to penalise other people just for our convenience or for our health.  That really would be absurd. We accept that we should suffer, even if it causes major health problems, so as not to cause restrictions for others. That's what normal people do.

I'm asthmatic.  I'm quite happy to inconvenience people with polluting vehicles if it means I can breathe happily, thanks.  I put my health first above the right of anyone - including myself - to drive a polluting vehicle.  Now I believe there should be support to help people move.  Which is good.  Because there is.

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Marple should secede from the legal fiction of Greater Manchester anyway, as we have nothing to do with Manchester and want nothing to do with the place.

Your regular reminder that no single person on this forum is representative of everyone in the area.

You may think Marple has nothing to do with Manchester.  You may not want anything to do with the place.  But you are ABSOLUTELY NOT "we".  You do not represent everyone.