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Author Topic: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge  (Read 7413 times)

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GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2022, 06:18:30 PM »
Definitely agree on the removal of mayors and all the wasted money. And the same with PCC, it's done nothing except drive up council taxes.

Bit like sadiq and his 1 million spend on public relations.

Condate

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2022, 05:15:48 PM »
Don't want it?  Don't like it?  No good moaning at Andy Burnham.  You need to get Westminster to ditch the requirement to act.

It is true that the real problem is insane requirements by Westminster and that does need to be addressed and the people responsible removed from office as soon as possible by the electorate.

Nevertheless, when faced with nonsensical requirements, what is required is to do the minimum required by law, while urging the government to change that law.

Why come up with such an ill thought out scheme which is only going to cause major damage to the area? Who knows? It seems completely insane to have a policy which applies to such a large and very diverse area and I can only assume it comes from an attitude that the weird notion of Greater Manchester needs to be pushed at all costs.

What might come out of it eventually is a realisation by the people of the area that it is time to put an end to the ludicrous idea of having a mayor of Greater Manchester. That can't come too soon. I don't care who the mayor is; we should not have one and the post needs to be abolished.

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2022, 04:47:09 PM »
Well having looked at the clean air map, i don't think you can even reliably make such a wide sweeping decision on effectively 21 data locations based primarily at junctions across a 493 square mile area.

Personally speaking the current VED system is perfectly adequate, if you wanted to tweek the pricing structure that would be my starting point.

And at the same time not excluding making Tesla owners actually pay, just because they're pollution is remote does not let them off Scott free.

admin

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2022, 04:45:41 PM »
And these have been shared by Mr Burnham today too in a joint statement:










admin

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2022, 04:32:12 PM »
I was interested to see that @William Wragg MP has shared a letter signed by himself and several other NW MP's today.

andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2022, 03:29:19 PM »
Yeah Andrew, whilst at the same time that labour guy is happy to charge anyone in a 40 mile radius!.

Well let's think about alternatives.

Each of the 10 councils has been told to do a Clean Air Zone.  So one solution is each council does its own thing.  Is that better or worst? 

What about if we just put the Clean Air Zones in pollution hotspots?  So people don't drive through the hotspots.  Great, pollution in hotspots decreases.  But it pushes it elsewhere, and creates new hotspots.  So we have a Clean Air Zone that moves regularly as hotspots move.

I'm sure there's more options.  And every one has a benefit or a drawback.  I can imagine the outcry if we had separate schemes for Stockport and for Tameside and for Trafford and for Manchester would be even bigger than what is going on now. 

It's easy to criticise.  It's very hard to find solutions that please everyone.

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2022, 03:10:23 PM »
Yeah Andrew, whilst at the same time that labour guy is happy to charge anyone in a 40 mile radius!.

Whilst quietly glossing over the gargantuan amount of pollution created by Manchester airport, isn't that still partly owned or atleast creating a huge dividends every year ?.

andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2022, 02:59:28 PM »
As to the idea that simply charging people will clean the air is a little naive in my opinion, it will remove some polluting vehicles from the roads for sure but only by putting some small businesses and sole traders out of business. Similarly, the cost of the administrative burden and technology to support this is not best use of available funds. Usual approach for change, cripple the existing options before viable or affordable alternatives are available.

The obvious answer would be to invest massively in public transport and to have extensive schemes to help business owners change their fleet and upgrade their vehicles whilst at the same implementing a scheme like this.  Carrot and stick at the same time. 

Unfortunately that requires an element of joined up thinking.  And a LOT more money.  The current Tory government seems to lack joined up thinking, and really doesn't want to spend money on, well, anything.  So there we are.

jimblob

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2022, 02:49:59 PM »
Andy Burnham was interviewed on the news today about this, stating...
"We are committed to reducing air pollution in Greater Manchester but also to protecting the jobs and livelihoods of our residents. We are listening carefully to concerns being expressed about the current situation and will make a decision shortly on our next steps".

As to the idea that simply charging people will clean the air is a little naive in my opinion, it will remove some polluting vehicles from the roads for sure but only by putting some small businesses and sole traders out of business. Similarly, the cost of the administrative burden and technology to support this is not best use of available funds. Usual approach for change, cripple the existing options before viable or affordable alternatives are available.

andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2022, 02:29:59 PM »
Whilst there has been a LOT of noise about this recently, is the noise going to do anything long term?  Somehow I doubt it.

The reasons for the Clean Air Zone are related to pollution levels, and the introduction of measures are being mandated by central government.  The ten Greater Manchester councils have been told to do something.  They're legally forced to do something.  The Clean Air Zone is what they're doing. 

They have two options:
1) ignore the legal requirement imposed on them
2) implement something.

That's the reality.

They may tinker the scheme a little.  They may be able to find a few extra pounds to help the affected people (although given local government budgets, good luck with that) but short of their being a massive reduction in air pollution across the borough of Stockport, Stockport's still going to be legally required to do something.  Same as every other council in Greater Manchester. 

Don't want it?  Don't like it?  No good moaning at Andy Burnham.  You need to get Westminster to ditch the requirement to act.

corium

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2022, 02:07:33 PM »
I see there is some hesitation about introducing the clean air zone:

https://cleanairgm.com/news/greater-manchester-clean-air-zone-statement/

It may be exactly as stated...or is it that the erection of the sign I originally saw has, like me, woken people up to what is about to happen? Not that I'm directly affected.

Deniseredmini

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2021, 07:26:24 PM »
Small things also help.

I walk past St Mary's school every weekday. The number of parents that sit in their cars on their phones and with their engines running is appalling.  This despite the campaign rum by the school children to ask parents not to have their engines idling. 

Graham

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2021, 03:11:49 PM »
Well said and very accurate I feel, I was at primary school in the early 1960s if we saw a car when walking to school it would have been either the Doctor the Vicar or the Undertaker and we knew the sound of each before looking.


Okay, so I went to primary school in the early 1980s.  I lived just over a mile from my school.  Sometimes we walked.  Sometimes we got the bus (which for some reason only ran in the afternoon - couldn't get it in the morning.)  Sometimes we got the car.  From about nine I sometimes did it without parents.

Here's the thing.  There's differences now between the 1980s when I went to primary school and the now that my children live in.

1) that school bus I used to get no longer runs.  I didn't grow up in Marple, but for children doing the journey I had to do, they either walk or they get a car.  There's no public transport option for them.  None.

2) there were a LOT less cars.  My parents still live in the same house on the same estate.  There used to be loads of space for children to play in the road.  And children did.  You couldn't do that now.  It's impossible.  Many houses on that street have three cars. There's cars going up and down it all the time.  That's not just that estate.  That's everywhere.  There's cars everywhere.  That's not just schools.  That's everyone.  We had one car in our house growing up.  That's why the street was quiet.  It's not like that now.

3) there's decreasing consideration of pedestrians by sine drivers.  Before anyone starts shrieking at me in outrage, go stand at the Coop petrol station on a school day.  You'll see cars go through red lights.  You'll see cars zooming through when the green man is lit saying its safe to cross.  I use that crossing 10 times a week.  And it's a rare week I don't see some driver doing something they shouldn't be.  It felt a lot safer as a child to be out and about when I was growing up in the 1980s than it does when I take my children to school.  Should be said, most drivers round are good and considerate.  But all by any means.

4) my mum didn't work when I was at primary school.  Many mums didn't.  Let's not beat around the bush here - this is a major difference between society in the early 1980s and now.  Now it's quite normal for both parents to be working.  And where do they work?  If they don't work in Marple, then they've got to travel.  And they'll have to travel in rush hour, dropping the kids off at school on the way.  And if they have to drive to work, they're going to drive the children to school.  It's obvious.


Before we all sit here with our misty eyed rose tinted glasses, it's worth thinking about the different world we live in from when we grew up. A world where more children end up in cars to school because the public transport doesn't support them well.  Because there's far more cars on the road and parents don't feel confident letting their children cross busy roads safely.  Because there's some absolute arseholes in cars creating dangerous conditions.  Because both parents are working and don't necessarily work locally, and don't necessarily have the time or ability to walk their children to school.



Incidentally my children do walk to school.  Well they scoot, I walk.  I take them every morning.  Four days a week they travel back on foot/scooter.  The fifth they go to swimming lessons.  Going swimming now needs a car now that we no longer have a swimming pool in Marple (thus creating more traffic) and the buses and trains are timed in such a way that makes it impossible to get to Romiley in time for their lessons.  And I see a LOT of children travelling on foot.  On scooters.  On bikes.

andrewbowden

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2021, 02:29:44 PM »
Okay, so I went to primary school in the early 1980s.  I lived just over a mile from my school.  Sometimes we walked.  Sometimes we got the bus (which for some reason only ran in the afternoon - couldn't get it in the morning.)  Sometimes we got the car.  From about nine I sometimes did it without parents.

Here's the thing.  There's differences now between the 1980s when I went to primary school and the now that my children live in.

1) that school bus I used to get no longer runs.  I didn't grow up in Marple, but for children doing the journey I had to do, they either walk or they get a car.  There's no public transport option for them.  None.

2) there were a LOT less cars.  My parents still live in the same house on the same estate.  There used to be loads of space for children to play in the road.  And children did.  You couldn't do that now.  It's impossible.  Many houses on that street have three cars. There's cars going up and down it all the time.  That's not just that estate.  That's everywhere.  There's cars everywhere.  That's not just schools.  That's everyone.  We had one car in our house growing up.  That's why the street was quiet.  It's not like that now.

3) there's decreasing consideration of pedestrians by sine drivers.  Before anyone starts shrieking at me in outrage, go stand at the Coop petrol station on a school day.  You'll see cars go through red lights.  You'll see cars zooming through when the green man is lit saying its safe to cross.  I use that crossing 10 times a week.  And it's a rare week I don't see some driver doing something they shouldn't be.  It felt a lot safer as a child to be out and about when I was growing up in the 1980s than it does when I take my children to school.  Should be said, most drivers round are good and considerate.  But all by any means.

4) my mum didn't work when I was at primary school.  Many mums didn't.  Let's not beat around the bush here - this is a major difference between society in the early 1980s and now.  Now it's quite normal for both parents to be working.  And where do they work?  If they don't work in Marple, then they've got to travel.  And they'll have to travel in rush hour, dropping the kids off at school on the way.  And if they have to drive to work, they're going to drive the children to school.  It's obvious.


Before we all sit here with our misty eyed rose tinted glasses, it's worth thinking about the different world we live in from when we grew up. A world where more children end up in cars to school because the public transport doesn't support them well.  Because there's far more cars on the road and parents don't feel confident letting their children cross busy roads safely.  Because there's some absolute arseholes in cars creating dangerous conditions.  Because both parents are working and don't necessarily work locally, and don't necessarily have the time or ability to walk their children to school.



Incidentally my children do walk to school.  Well they scoot, I walk.  I take them every morning.  Four days a week they travel back on foot/scooter.  The fifth they go to swimming lessons.  Going swimming now needs a car now that we no longer have a swimming pool in Marple (thus creating more traffic) and the buses and trains are timed in such a way that makes it impossible to get to Romiley in time for their lessons.  And I see a LOT of children travelling on foot.  On scooters.  On bikes. 

GM

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Re: Clean Air Zone in Marple and Marple Bridge
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2021, 01:00:08 PM »
Are we going to start going down a four Yorkshire men skit ?