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Author Topic: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues  (Read 26301 times)

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Miss Marple

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Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2012, 10:58:34 PM »
Flipping heck ! I thought councillors expenses was for petrol allowances and parking.   The funniest thing is that when 350 people turned out to that now much talked about Area Committee Meeting in the park last year.  The cost of alerting the community was a pack of paper (£2.50) and half an ink cartridge and the use of my kitchen table. Even with all  those expenses the best our elected members can do is get a handful of the community to attend an Area Committee Meeting     Have we any idea what the expenses are for?  is there a break down available anywhere

Duke Fame

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Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2012, 09:56:38 PM »
Mr Duke - just to be clear - the "we" over John Prescott referred to the yes campaign for a regional assembly in 2002/3, I think. I was involved in that. So was a proud son of Marple called Anthony H Wilson. It was utterly rejected by the voters of the North East and kicked into the long grass thereafter. I also think a change is coming in Stockport, one way or another.

Very true, gods country knows a lame duck when we see it.

In order to work, regional assemblies would have to rip power from local councils to be worthwhile, the proposal silly enabled another layer of fudge and egos to be fed. Not surprised Tony Wilson was keen on it.

Duke Fame

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2012, 09:52:14 PM »


Oh dear, they've allowed business to create wealth, we can't have that, no, absolutely not. They'll be creating jobs next.

It's the workers who create wealth - how about a history course on the forum

Not without enterprise they didn't.

marpleleaf

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2012, 09:50:22 PM »
Mr Duke - just to be clear - the "we" over John Prescott referred to the yes campaign for a regional assembly in 2002/3, I think. I was involved in that. So was a proud son of Marple called Anthony H Wilson. It was utterly rejected by the voters of the North East and kicked into the long grass thereafter. I also think a change is coming in Stockport, one way or another.

Bowden Guy

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Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2012, 09:26:10 PM »
Yes, the "workers" create all the wealth, apart from when there is no actual company to create wealth from and an individual like Bill Gates, Sergy Brin or Steve Jobs has to come along and create it. If the "workers" had been in control of this country for the past 150 years we would be still be saying "have you met my son, the handloom weaver"?"

doc

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2012, 08:59:37 PM »


Oh dear, they've allowed business to create wealth, we can't have that, no, absolutely not. They'll be creating jobs next.

It's the workers who create wealth - how about a history course on the forum

andy+kirsty

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »
So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ?  I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut !  All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities

I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.

Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
I can almost be 100% sure that your mother didn't live in Stockport, it would have been better if she had. Stockport has an excellent social services dept which prides itself in multi disciplinary working that thankfully protects dementia clients from slipping through the net. 




Is was Hampshire, the problem was there were so many, whilst one made a suggestion which was plausible, there would be some other 'specialism' that would come up with the most ridiculous reason why it wasn't possible. There were 36 different social workers who's chief skill appeared to be a degree in saying  "ah, we want the best for Mum". After 2 weeks of hospital, the docs said she could go home but it was in the hands of social services who work at a very slow pace. 8 months later & repeated infections later. Social services only actually allowed to go home after we insisted in kicking them into action. The last govt threw so much money at it, they were chronically over-staffed.

That wouldn't be Conservative controlled Hampshire with its outsourced Social Services Provider would it?

 

Dave

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2012, 04:32:27 PM »
Local government has been so emasculated by successive national governments in recent years that it's hard to see how a Labour council in Stockport could conceivably be 'scary'. As marpleaf pointed out earlier in this very thread, there is little that 'ideologically separates the political parties on the kinds of issues that most councillors have to deal with.'

Duke Fame

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Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2012, 01:55:15 PM »
Thanks for the research into the expenses - excellent work.

One of my initial points was that there are only two serious and credible political groups in Marple. The Liberal Democrats and the Marple in Action campaign. I know MiA is not political with a big P and it is a single issue group, not a party, let me be clear on that. However, in their different capacities as good citizens it was David Hoyle and Mick McPhee raising the voices of opposition on the issue of the A boards. Both are leading and very visible members of MiA, but my point is this - they as independent voices with a strong community commitment are much more effective than the Conservatives in holding the members to account. I agree about Syd Lloyd - I know him as we're both Governors of a school in the area - and he's a heavyweight.

The silence on Wednesday night and the lack of visibility locally concerns me. There are big issues for Marple ahead and I don't have any confidence in the Tories locally, 1, in being the body capable of toppling Shan Alexander, who I believe deserves to be voted out and 2, should they win by stealth and on a LibDem backlash, of representing the community effectively.

I am very flattered and encouraged by the many messages of the support on this important issue. It deserves careful time and thought.

Kind regards,

Michael Taylor

Michael Taylor

 

IWhilst I’m aware that the ‘A’ board issue was presented to the business community by Sue Stevenson but Carl’s point has got me thinking. This issue is possibly indirectly from ‘above’, I suspect that when council tax increases were rightly frozen (albeit not reduced), the intention was that councils find efficiencies, stop wasteful spending etc. Some councils take a view of maximising income from elsewhere (see Dickie Leese’s council wrecking city centre trade by increasing car parking fees) and that means underhand traffic offense traps and leaching off businesses by creating an ‘A’ board licence scheme. It was interesting that Sue Stevenson didn’t suggest there was a problem with ‘A’ bards or ask the business community how it could police itself by being responsible with ‘a’ board siting, it was another way of extracting money.
I know Michael to be a reasonable chap (although slightly perturbed at the use of ‘we’ when twittering with John (bitter about being caught out) Prescott ) and if he ran as a councillor I’d give fair consideration, my big worry would be that by backing an indy in Marple, Stockport may well become Labour, the thought of that is scary.

marpleleaf

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2012, 11:45:11 AM »
Thanks for the research into the expenses - excellent work.

One of my initial points was that there are only two serious and credible political groups in Marple. The Liberal Democrats and the Marple in Action campaign. I know MiA is not political with a big P and it is a single issue group, not a party, let me be clear on that. However, in their different capacities as good citizens it was David Hoyle and Mick McPhee raising the voices of opposition on the issue of the A boards. Both are leading and very visible members of MiA, but my point is this - they as independent voices with a strong community commitment are much more effective than the Conservatives in holding the members to account. I agree about Syd Lloyd - I know him as we're both Governors of a school in the area - and he's a heavyweight.

The silence on Wednesday night and the lack of visibility locally concerns me. There are big issues for Marple ahead and I don't have any confidence in the Tories locally, 1, in being the body capable of toppling Shan Alexander, who I believe deserves to be voted out and 2, should they win by stealth and on a LibDem backlash, of representing the community effectively.

I am very flattered and encouraged by the many messages of the support on this important issue. It deserves careful time and thought.

Kind regards,

Michael Taylor

Michael Taylor

 

Dave

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2012, 11:40:21 AM »
Assuming Cllrs Alexander and Candler have time-consuming 'executive' roles which preclude them holding down a full-time job as well, it's not a lot, is it. Maybe if we paid a bit more we might get better councillors?

Duke Fame

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
Yes we do need business to create wealth and we do need a healthy job market. Economics though needs to be reconciled with the environment & the community. It isn't an easy achievement but it can be done.

What we don't want is business to the exclusion of everything else around it.


Business drives the community though. Why did Marple exist? why was there a canal here? Why did Manchester exist? it's all down to business and commerce. As Rousseau (sp) said, where there is commerce, there are manners.

finetimefontaine

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2012, 10:56:17 AM »

I've been doing a little bit of research into Marple Councillor's allowances. Personally I don't really cherish a policy - view on this. I think it all depends on the individual Councillor. People should be paid for what they do and if you pay peanuts you often get monkeys - although I have to say that it has been my life's experience that sometimes, perversely, the more peanuts you pay - the bigger the monkey you actually get.

Anyway here are the "peanuts" in numerical form. In advance of this it has to be considered that each Councillor has different responsibilities from the other and therefore theoretically would have a different workload.

What follows is their individual allowance claim for electoral year 2011/2012 - May to May. Obviously we are not yet at the month of May 2012 so a little pro - rata exercise has taken place but this would have a minimal effect on the figures and would only alter them if such things such as deaths(perish the thought) or resignations/sackings etc happened.

It also has to be noted that these figures are gross figures which are taxed at source and wherein the Councillor has to run his/her own office from - with all the overhead implications that this has.


Basic allowance for all Stockport Councillors is £9554.52 per annum.


In ascending order of remuneration for year 2011/2012.

Councillors;

Kevin Dowling            £9554.52

Craig Wright              £9554.52

Andrew Bispham        £13,318.41

Susan Ingham           £14,187.09

Martin Candler          £24,031.18

Shan Alexander         £24,031.18

It may or not be relevant but Councillor Ben Alexander (Shan's husband) who is a Liberal Dem Councillor
for Stepping Hill - £18,000.59.

So there is £42 grand plus going into Maison Alexander.

Now we have real numbers to have an opinion on.

finetimefontaine

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2012, 10:16:29 AM »
Yes we do need business to create wealth and we do need a healthy job market. Economics though needs to be reconciled with the environment & the community. It isn't an easy achievement but it can be done.

What we don't want is business to the exclusion of everything else around it.

Duke Fame

  • Guest
Re: Local elections - a weighing up of the issues
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2012, 12:44:06 AM »
So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ?  I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut !  All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities

I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.

Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
I can almost be 100% sure that your mother didn't live in Stockport, it would have been better if she had. Stockport has an excellent social services dept which prides itself in multi disciplinary working that thankfully protects dementia clients from slipping through the net. 




Is was Hampshire, the problem was there were so many, whilst one made a suggestion which was plausible, there would be some other 'specialism' that would come up with the most ridiculous reason why it wasn't possible. There were 36 different social workers who's chief skill appeared to be a degree in saying  "ah, we want the best for Mum". After 2 weeks of hospital, the docs said she could go home but it was in the hands of social services who work at a very slow pace. 8 months later & repeated infections later. Social services only actually allowed to go home after we insisted in kicking them into action. The last govt threw so much money at it, they were chronically over-staffed.