Join me, I propose SMBC charge full business rates

[Duke Fame]

But the high street and independent retailers are on their last legs, a great many of us don't regard shopping as a pleasent experience and prefer to buy on line. Most of us now buy music on line or via downloads, most books are bought on line, many of us buy all our shirts, pullovers socks underwear on line. I buy all electrical goods on line as well as all paper and stationary. The list goes on specialist stuff such as luggage, jigsaws, adult toys .... Shopping on line is just pleasenter, cheaper and offers a wider choice. The only retailers to grow will be those with a good on line presence.

The decline of the high street is nothing to do with costs but changes in culture and society.

I don't think you are quite getting the point.

There is no doubt that retail is changing and in many areas in decline. Clothing, Jewellery etc I think retains the personal touch because of the need for correct fit, style etc whereas electronics etc lends itself to distance selling.

The point though is demand for commercial property falls off so prices should fall. To a certain extent that is happening but there is a point to which rentals are not falling. For the SME's who may take a place on the likes of Marple precinct, they are typically units that charity shops would go for but the charity shop is at a distinct advantage. i.e. my earlier example:

They are competing for the shop on an unfair basis.

Normal company - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k

Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k

The landlord would clearly rather take the charity shop and temporarily, the landlords get a lifeline from the charity shop. Surely, it's not doing any good if a proper business that employs staff and creates wealth gets crowded out & out bid by a charity that does nothing but help a small donkey in spain? The council don't mind this set up as it's in their interest to keep people unemployed and their rate income for charity shops is supplemented by central government but for society, it's not good.
 

[wheels]

But the high street and independent retailers are on their last legs, a great many of us don't regard shopping as a pleasent experience and prefer to buy on line. Most of us now buy music on line or via downloads, most books are bought on line, many of us buy all our shirts, pullovers socks underwear on line. I buy all electrical goods on line as well as all paper and stationary. The list goes on specialist stuff such as luggage, jigsaws, adult toys .... Shopping on line is just pleasenter, cheaper and offers a wider choice. The only retailers to grow will be those with a good on line presence.

The decline of the high street is nothing to do with costs but changes in culture and society.

[Duke Fame]

Duke if your suggesting that Charity Shops are a direct threat to a normal for personal profit retail enterprise then the independent retail sector has really sunk a long way.

I'm not, I'm saying they are forcing rents up but given charity shops have no labour costs, no VAT, no rates and for 2nd hand gear 100% gross profits, they do have the ability to beat proper businesses.

The likes of Oxfam use their charity status to take advatage on hte high street and it's not on.

[wheels]

why are they not any charity bike shops?

There is one in the old mill on Hempshaw Lane

[Bluezorro]

why are they not any charity bike shops?

[wheels]

Duke if your suggesting that Charity Shops are a direct threat to a normal for personal profit retail enterprise then the independent retail sector has really sunk a long way.

[Duke Fame]

To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.

What shops are they competing with - unless its other charity / second hand / junk shops?

They are competing for the shop on an unfair basis.

Normal company - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k

Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k

Looking at this, if I was a landlord I know which deal I'd prefer.

[Bluezorro]

Young entrepreneurs and new start up businesses should get the same deal.

[Belly]

To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.

What shops are they competing with - unless its other charity / second hand / junk shops?

[Duke Fame]

Far better than empty shops though?

That's surely an argument to remove business rates altogether.

At the moment, retail is very difficult but a business plan that assumes an annual rent for a small shop in Marple is about £7k pa with business rate value of £2.5k so a business has to cover £9.5k to break even. Currently, charities are able to gazump proper businesses as their cost is only £7k. Indeed, Charities are forcing up rents as they are rate free.

A level playing field is needed + if charity pays their fair share, the government needs to tax less.

[JMC]

Far better than empty shops though?

[Duke Fame]

To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.