Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: Duke Fame on January 20, 2013, 12:15:03 PM
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
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Far better than empty shops though?
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Far better than empty shops though?
That's surely an argument to remove business rates altogether.
At the moment, retail is very difficult but a business plan that assumes an annual rent for a small shop in Marple is about £7k pa with business rate value of £2.5k so a business has to cover £9.5k to break even. Currently, charities are able to gazump proper businesses as their cost is only £7k. Indeed, Charities are forcing up rents as they are rate free.
A level playing field is needed + if charity pays their fair share, the government needs to tax less.
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
What shops are they competing with - unless its other charity / second hand / junk shops?
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Young entrepreneurs and new start up businesses should get the same deal.
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
What shops are they competing with - unless its other charity / second hand / junk shops?
They are competing for the shop on an unfair basis.
Normal company - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k
Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k
Looking at this, if I was a landlord I know which deal I'd prefer.
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Duke if your suggesting that Charity Shops are a direct threat to a normal for personal profit retail enterprise then the independent retail sector has really sunk a long way.
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why are they not any charity bike shops?
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why are they not any charity bike shops?
There is one in the old mill on Hempshaw Lane
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Duke if your suggesting that Charity Shops are a direct threat to a normal for personal profit retail enterprise then the independent retail sector has really sunk a long way.
I'm not, I'm saying they are forcing rents up but given charity shops have no labour costs, no VAT, no rates and for 2nd hand gear 100% gross profits, they do have the ability to beat proper businesses.
The likes of Oxfam use their charity status to take advatage on hte high street and it's not on.
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But the high street and independent retailers are on their last legs, a great many of us don't regard shopping as a pleasent experience and prefer to buy on line. Most of us now buy music on line or via downloads, most books are bought on line, many of us buy all our shirts, pullovers socks underwear on line. I buy all electrical goods on line as well as all paper and stationary. The list goes on specialist stuff such as luggage, jigsaws, adult toys .... Shopping on line is just pleasenter, cheaper and offers a wider choice. The only retailers to grow will be those with a good on line presence.
The decline of the high street is nothing to do with costs but changes in culture and society.
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But the high street and independent retailers are on their last legs, a great many of us don't regard shopping as a pleasent experience and prefer to buy on line. Most of us now buy music on line or via downloads, most books are bought on line, many of us buy all our shirts, pullovers socks underwear on line. I buy all electrical goods on line as well as all paper and stationary. The list goes on specialist stuff such as luggage, jigsaws, adult toys .... Shopping on line is just pleasenter, cheaper and offers a wider choice. The only retailers to grow will be those with a good on line presence.
The decline of the high street is nothing to do with costs but changes in culture and society.
I don't think you are quite getting the point.
There is no doubt that retail is changing and in many areas in decline. Clothing, Jewellery etc I think retains the personal touch because of the need for correct fit, style etc whereas electronics etc lends itself to distance selling.
The point though is demand for commercial property falls off so prices should fall. To a certain extent that is happening but there is a point to which rentals are not falling. For the SME's who may take a place on the likes of Marple precinct, they are typically units that charity shops would go for but the charity shop is at a distinct advantage. i.e. my earlier example:
They are competing for the shop on an unfair basis.
Normal company - 10k rent + 4k rates = 14k
Charity costs - 12k rent + £800 rates = 12.8k
The landlord would clearly rather take the charity shop and temporarily, the landlords get a lifeline from the charity shop. Surely, it's not doing any good if a proper business that employs staff and creates wealth gets crowded out & out bid by a charity that does nothing but help a small donkey in spain? The council don't mind this set up as it's in their interest to keep people unemployed and their rate income for charity shops is supplemented by central government but for society, it's not good.
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just noticed an anagram of duke fame is.... make feud. :o
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
Owners of premises are in business themselves and empty premises don't make money. It's better for the landlords and the community to have charity shops doing business than to have shops boarded up. There are enough closed shops in Marple as it is.
It is also a sad fact of life that there are people in the area who need to be able to buy teeshirts for £1 and a winter coat for a fiver and at least the money goes to good cause (well, usually - we'll leave out one rather dubious establishment in the area) so the shops serve two useful purposes. It's unlikely that the charity shops are driving out "the businesses that are playing fair" by taking their customers as they serve a different demograph.
Is there perhaps a little snobbery and NIMBY-ism here? Perhaps there are those who feel that charity shops "lower the tone" of the village?
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
Owners of premises are in business themselves and empty premises don't make money. It's better for the landlords and the community to have charity shops doing business than to have shops boarded up. There are enough closed shops in Marple as it is.
It is also a sad fact of life that there are people in the area who need to be able to buy teeshirts for £1 and a winter coat for a fiver and at least the money goes to good cause (well, usually - we'll leave out one rather dubious establishment in the area) so the shops serve two useful purposes. It's unlikely that the charity shops are driving out "the businesses that are playing fair" by taking their customers as they serve a different demograph.
Is there perhaps a little snobbery and NIMBY-ism here? Perhaps there are those who feel that charity shops "lower the tone" of the village?
Your first point that landlords are profit maximisers is quite right, I'm saying that charities can pay more becaus eof their status.
Yes, few landlords will want an empty shop, in many cases, landlords will even give their shop away for nothing just to avoid the rates bill. However, charity shops skew the market.
There is no snobbery from me, I just think there should be a level playing field.
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You may see empty shops but you rarely see empty charity shops. The charity shops are of benefit to everyone in Marple and this includes existing shopkeepers. The number of cafes in a small centre such as Marple shows that a lot of people come to shop at the existing retailers in Marple and meet up with friends while they are doing it. While they are here they have a drink and a browse for anything of interest in the charity shops: the fact that Marple has an affluent population means that goods donated to the shops are of a fairly high quality. Everyone benefits: better to have a charity shop with customers coming and going for the whole time than boarded up empty shops which can quickly become covered in graffiti. Charity shops do not put existing shops out of business: nor do they replace them. They are alternative users for what would otherwise be empty premises which allow clothes, books and other items to be recycled and raise money for a good cause. Nothing detracts from an area more than boarded up graffitied shops.
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You may see empty shops but you rarely see empty charity shops. The charity shops are of benefit to everyone in Marple and this includes existing shopkeepers. The number of cafes in a small centre such as Marple shows that a lot of people come to shop at the existing retailers in Marple and meet up with friends while they are doing it. While they are here they have a drink and a browse for anything of interest in the charity shops: the fact that Marple has an affluent population means that goods donated to the shops are of a fairly high quality. Everyone benefits: better to have a charity shop with customers coming and going for the whole time than boarded up empty shops which can quickly become covered in graffiti. Charity shops do not put existing shops out of business: nor do they replace them. They are alternative users for what would otherwise be empty premises which allow clothes, books and other items to be recycled and raise money for a good cause. Nothing detracts from an area more than boarded up graffitied shops.
Still not the point, they are forcing up rents for proper businesses that normally would provide a living 7 employment for staff & owners.
I don't want charity shops banned, just want them to pay the same rate as another business and yes, perhaps the landlords may receive less money but it would be fair.
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Not good for the landlord business then Duke
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Not good for the landlord business then Duke
Perhaps not but i think will result in more shops operating as open shops.
The other side of it for landlords is it is going to be easier to return shops to residential which will give them a chance to get income
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You may see empty shops but you rarely see empty charity shops. The charity shops are of benefit to everyone in Marple and this includes existing shopkeepers. The number of cafes in a small centre such as Marple shows that a lot of people come to shop at the existing retailers in Marple and meet up with friends while they are doing it. While they are here they have a drink and a browse for anything of interest in the charity shops: the fact that Marple has an affluent population means that goods donated to the shops are of a fairly high quality. Everyone benefits: better to have a charity shop with customers coming and going for the whole time than boarded up empty shops which can quickly become covered in graffiti. Charity shops do not put existing shops out of business: nor do they replace them. They are alternative users for what would otherwise be empty premises which allow clothes, books and other items to be recycled and raise money for a good cause. Nothing detracts from an area more than boarded up graffitied shops.
In fact, many charities occupy premises which are let to them at preferential rents by landlords who prefer to have their property occupied than standing empty at no rent at all. Don't know about the Marple shop but I believe that in some areas Cancer Research UK own the property their shops occupy.
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Far better than empty shops though?
No it's not ...
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No it's not ...
Oh yes it is ...
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To charity shops, the place is awash with them and they are using loopholes to reduce their costs and drive out the businesses that are playing fair.
I think you have a very good point here...and it has a direct link to the issues facing marple regarding the supermarket proposals....i would even extend the list not only to include charity shops
but hairdressers,take aways...after all we are a village..how many do we need -be honnest ...people in the village should have more say on what shops are required ...
next thing we will have is payday cash shops .....
The Coop is also a example,they are taking over the village,they have the supermarket,banking,cafe,chemists..next thing we wll have is a coop petrol station ...we will all be working for them soon
for this reson i want a supermarket...
the supermarkets situation is not on my top of the list ...i would like good shops,a vareity..themn maybe we would all support our village more
landlords should be forced to repair
some of the shops too...
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What utter rubbish. Local people have spoken!! We have so many takeaways, hairdressers newsagents etc because local people use them, these business are opening knowing there is no market.
You might fondly believe Marple is a village, with 23000 people and want only a village shop but the rest of us know we live in a suburb of Stockport.
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I certainly don't think the state should dictate the shops we have but the point remains that hte charities are exploiting a loophole in hte tax law and pretty much in the same boat as Starbucks, amazon etc.
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What utter rubbish. Local people have spoken!! We have so many takeaways, hairdressers newsagents etc because local people use them, these business are opening knowing there is no market.
You might fondly believe Marple is a village, with 23000 people and want only a village shop but the rest of us know we live in a suburb of Stockport.
Some people in here can remember what Marple village was like ...not that long ago .....
The number of charity shops and takeaways is ridiculous ...I am saying we need shops which offer a variety.
We are still a village ..just because the population has increased ..and the borough boundaries have changed over the years ...we are no different than new mills or poynton
Both of which offer a better shopping....
of shops
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Mmmmm, Poynton. I believe it has (in no particular order) a Co-op, an Asda and a Waitrose spread variously along a pretty full High Street; with a variety of shops including, unless I am mistaken, a Green Grocers right bang smack next to Asda. And a few charity shops. Not sure what the population of Poynton is but there isn't a lot of tumbleweed there.
Similarly Whaley Bridge's Tesco doesn't seem to have decimated that village.
Just a thought....
RH.