Chadwick Street / Trinity Street Development Announced

[Tricky]

I really hope you are right Duke, because I see the Chadwick St site (as proposed) as having the potential to cause real damage to the centre of Marple - all down to parking. Despite what the Council say, I have major doubts that the parking provided at the Chadwick St site is enough to service the proposed store on its own (hence the reason why Asda's car park is much bigger for a similar store size), which means a lot of displaced parking to all the other car parks in the town. Now I go into Marple most Saturdays and I don't think that (apart from the Chadwick St car park itself) that there are that many spare spaces across the other car parks at peak shopping times. To me this means only one thing, lots of on street parking and fed up local residents in future - or people avoiding Marple as its too difficult to park uo and visit the shops. If you read the Chadwick St proposals carefully, they base their parking analysis on a relatively quiet period of the year and justify their store by saying that all parking displaced by the proposals (assuming no overspill) could simply fill up all the other spaces in town, so that all the car parks would operate pretty much at capacity. The whole town fully parked - every week! Increadible, especially as many of those car parks are cramped, with spaces that in practice are nigh on unsuable for larger vehicles. God only knows what it will be like in the run up to Christmas or when we have an event on.

I've no problem with a foodstore at Chadwick Street as a principle - I simply think the exitsing scheme is too big for the level of car parking it can deliver.  I suspect that this is the only way to make the site deliverable financially (for all the reasons that Dave has set out), but the town shouldn't suffer as a consequence.

But the town would not be suffering a few local residents near to the store would be suffering and many might consider that a price worth paying.

..but this is EXACTLY why MIA was formed.

(although Miss Marple didn't consider the price worth paying, obviously)

[wheels]

I really hope you are right Duke, because I see the Chadwick St site (as proposed) as having the potential to cause real damage to the centre of Marple - all down to parking. Despite what the Council say, I have major doubts that the parking provided at the Chadwick St site is enough to service the proposed store on its own (hence the reason why Asda's car park is much bigger for a similar store size), which means a lot of displaced parking to all the other car parks in the town. Now I go into Marple most Saturdays and I don't think that (apart from the Chadwick St car park itself) that there are that many spare spaces across the other car parks at peak shopping times. To me this means only one thing, lots of on street parking and fed up local residents in future - or people avoiding Marple as its too difficult to park uo and visit the shops. If you read the Chadwick St proposals carefully, they base their parking analysis on a relatively quiet period of the year and justify their store by saying that all parking displaced by the proposals (assuming no overspill) could simply fill up all the other spaces in town, so that all the car parks would operate pretty much at capacity. The whole town fully parked - every week! Increadible, especially as many of those car parks are cramped, with spaces that in practice are nigh on unsuable for larger vehicles. God only knows what it will be like in the run up to Christmas or when we have an event on.

I've no problem with a foodstore at Chadwick Street as a principle - I simply think the exitsing scheme is too big for the level of car parking it can deliver.  I suspect that this is the only way to make the site deliverable financially (for all the reasons that Dave has set out), but the town shouldn't suffer as a consequence.

But the town would not be suffering a few local residents near to the store would be suffering and many might consider that a price worth paying.

[Belly]

I really hope you are right Duke, because I see the Chadwick St site (as proposed) as having the potential to cause real damage to the centre of Marple - all down to parking. Despite what the Council say, I have major doubts that the parking provided at the Chadwick St site is enough to service the proposed store on its own (hence the reason why Asda's car park is much bigger for a similar store size), which means a lot of displaced parking to all the other car parks in the town. Now I go into Marple most Saturdays and I don't think that (apart from the Chadwick St car park itself) that there are that many spare spaces across the other car parks at peak shopping times. To me this means only one thing, lots of on street parking and fed up local residents in future - or people avoiding Marple as its too difficult to park uo and visit the shops. If you read the Chadwick St proposals carefully, they base their parking analysis on a relatively quiet period of the year and justify their store by saying that all parking displaced by the proposals (assuming no overspill) could simply fill up all the other spaces in town, so that all the car parks would operate pretty much at capacity. The whole town fully parked - every week! Increadible, especially as many of those car parks are cramped, with spaces that in practice are nigh on unsuable for larger vehicles. God only knows what it will be like in the run up to Christmas or when we have an event on.

I've no problem with a foodstore at Chadwick Street as a principle - I simply think the exitsing scheme is too big for the level of car parking it can deliver.  I suspect that this is the only way to make the site deliverable financially (for all the reasons that Dave has set out), but the town shouldn't suffer as a consequence.

[Duke Fame]

Morrisons, Sainsbury and Waitrose would kill for that site and Tesco or Asda wouldn't mind it either. It really matters not that Asda think the carpark isn't big enough,

Hmmm, I'm not so sure, Duke - time will tell, of course.  The size of the car park is only one issue, and not the major one, I suspect.    More significant will be the relatively low turnover on Chadwick Street compared with the Hibbert Lane site (as projected by the council's consultants Hollis Vincent), and the greater cost of developing the site, with its slope, limited space, and the need for a very expensive vehicle turntable for delivery trucks to turn round.  Also the lack of a petrol filling station.  Doesn't sound much like a site to kill for to me!  

Never believe a consultant for a council. Consultants are used by councils to justify something obviously flawed. A couple of pals worked for KPMG when they did consultancy for the TIF thing to prove the TIF thing would be good for Manchester. Of course, it was an expensive load of tosh but it said what the local authority wanted which meant they would be paid.

That said, I'd not be surprised that the supermarket at hibbert Lane could gain more sales than Chadwick street but Chadwisk St + the rest of the town would be far greater than Hibbert a + dead town centre.

Now a very expensive vehicle turntable sounds fun but I happen to know where a cheap one is, there is a boat in Middlesboro that has been neglected called the tuxedo royale which was a former sealink ferry with a vehicle turntable converted to a revolving dance-floor on which I'd spent many an hour trying to pull lady loves. That will do for the job.

As for petrol? there is a petrol station within 30 sec drive of Chadwick street, Marple is not going to stop.

[Duke Fame]

so the shopper going to let's say the New Morrisons will have to walk the 25 metres passing Toast, the chippy, the greengrocer, butcher and Pub.

I can't see people going that far with a full weeks shopping. They are likely to just do the shop and drive away as at Hibbert lane. In addition it may be that they are going later on after work and the precient is shut. Or a Wednesday. For top up shopping it may be true. But will it retain those who currently go outside of Marple to do their main shop?

I haven't had any emails about the Asda application.

Funny you say that.

Dave believes the  great thing for Hibbert lane will be the swathes of overweight Asda shoppers, ditching their cars at Hibbert lane and escorting their tracksuit clad, obese offspring to try some Black Bomber in ATN, Welsh Dragon sausage in Whites, razor clams at the fish guy before picking up some good value mobs & buckets in pound plus.

[JMC]

so the shopper going to let's say the New Morrisons will have to walk the 25 metres passing Toast, the chippy, the greengrocer, butcher and Pub.

I can't see people going that far with a full weeks shopping. They are likely to just do the shop and drive away as at Hibbert lane. In addition it may be that they are going later on after work and the precient is shut. Or a Wednesday. For top up shopping it may be true. But will it retain those who currently go outside of Marple to do their main shop?

I haven't had any emails about the Asda application.

[amazon]

Morrisons, Sainsbury and Waitrose would kill for that site and Tesco or Asda wouldn't mind it either. It really matters not that Asda think the carpark isn't big enough,

Hmmm, I'm not so sure, Duke - time will tell, of course.  The size of the car park is only one issue, and not the major one, I suspect.    More significant will be the relatively low turnover on Chadwick Street compared with the Hibbert Lane site (as projected by the council's consultants Hollis Vincent), and the greater cost of developing the site, with its slope, limited space, and the need for a very expensive vehicle turntable for delivery trucks to turn round.  Also the lack of a petrol filling station.  Doesn't sound much like a site to kill for to me! 

Asda  application published today copy sent to me by email .anyone else had copy by email .

[Dave]

Morrisons, Sainsbury and Waitrose would kill for that site and Tesco or Asda wouldn't mind it either. It really matters not that Asda think the carpark isn't big enough,

Hmmm, I'm not so sure, Duke - time will tell, of course.  The size of the car park is only one issue, and not the major one, I suspect.    More significant will be the relatively low turnover on Chadwick Street compared with the Hibbert Lane site (as projected by the council's consultants Hollis Vincent), and the greater cost of developing the site, with its slope, limited space, and the need for a very expensive vehicle turntable for delivery trucks to turn round.  Also the lack of a petrol filling station.  Doesn't sound much like a site to kill for to me! 

[Duke Fame]

But Simone that's not how it works, you would not expect Kirkland to have a developer on board until they have planning permission that's the normal process. No partner will sign up or show themselves until that hurdle has been achieve. We don't know nor have we any right to know if Kirkland have someone they are speaking to who will declare after the application is approved.

Nothing whatsoever has changed other than in folks heads nor is the status of one let us say Kirkland a planning issue to take into account when considering the other. The decision is made on planning grounds alone and the status of another application is not a factor to take into account.

Currently Kirklands application must be seen as the front runner as it is the only one of the two that meets planning guidelines end of.

Gosh, I agree with you wheels. Kirkland are going to keep things under wraps, let's be honest, Morrisons, Sainsbury and Waitrose would kill for that site and Tesco or Asda wouldn't mind it either. It really matters not that Asda think the carpark isn't big enough, in fact the best bit of the idea is that parking will not just be outside the 'main' shop but in the 4-5 car parks that service the shopping area so the shopper going to let's say the New Morrisons will have to walk the 25 metres passing Toast, the chippy, the greengrocer, butcher and Pub. The Asda plan completely isolates the shopping precinct.

[wheels]

I did not specify the contents of the glass areyou saying you never take any fluids. Strange

[JMC]

So in ten years time we could still be stuck with the coop .

Awful thought! Let's hope Asda get it on appeal.

[amazon]

Why do you say that Amazon, Kirkland are a highly successful developer for this size and type of development, is your glass always half empty.

I don't drink .

[wheels]

Why do you say that Amazon, Kirkland are a highly successful developer for this size and type of development, is your glass always half empty.

[amazon]

Yes, I do mean the appeal, because IMO there is no way Hubert Lane will be approved by SMBC. 

I could envisage a prospective tenant being provisionally signed up by Kirkland in advance of planning, but given the conditions which would probably be attached to the planning consent, it's hard to see it being a completely done deal at that stage.  The tenant would want to be satisfied with the conditions before they signed on the dotted line. 

Agreed and I would not expect it to be public knowledge who that tenant is, its not our business.

So in ten years time we could still be stuck with the coop .

[wheels]

Yes, I do mean the appeal, because IMO there is no way Hibbert Lane will be approved by SMBC. 

I could envisage a prospective tenant being provisionally signed up by Kirkland in advance of planning, but given the conditions which would probably be attached to the planning consent, it's hard to see it being a completely done deal at that stage.  The tenant would want to be satisfied with the conditions before they signed on the dotted line. 

Agreed and I would not expect it to be public knowledge who that tenant is, its not our business.