Tram train and transport in Marple and Stockport

[Dave]

I have received a helpful reply from Councillor Chris Paul, one of those listed by lindavee.

He drew my attention to para 302 in the TfGM 2040 Strategy: 'Where there
is a high demand and a fast route can be identified linking to a very major trip attractor (i.e.
Manchester city centre or, in the future, Manchester Airport) it may be possible to develop new rapid
transit routes, using either Metrolink/tram-train (see section 159) or bus. However given the very high
cost, these are most likely to be justified where they can support significant new development. A
number of routes have been identified as having potential for tram-train, for example: Manchester to
Marple

So it seems we have not been forgotten!

[Dave]

Thanks for the heads-up, lindavee. I have written to all three of the councillors you have named, and I hope others will do the same. We need to make sure we are not forgotten! 

[amazon]

We definately need a link from Marple to Stockport. Traffic this way is hideous.

they used to be one the tiviot dale line .good while ago o mr Beeching .

[JMC]

We definately need a link from Marple to Stockport. Traffic this way is hideous.

[lindavee]

Adding Metrolink alongside the SEMMS bypass + segregated cycle lanes on the bypass, continuing the bypass to the M60 from Hazel Grove and extending Rose hill to Hazel grove would sure solve a lot of issues; but we only ever get half a job! I live in Marple and regularly go to the airport. To have an international airport with such poor transport links to it's surrounding (ever growing) affluent suburbs of travelling professionals seems crazy. As for getting into or out of the airport by car both in terms of traffic congestion but also the second mortgage required to even pick someone up from the airport, well that's criminal.

Thanks both. The line that Stockport councillors were aspiring to was an orbital line that went from the airport, through alot of the south lines and Stockport, to piccadilly. So if a marple tram train extension were to be built that would help alot of commuters moving across south Manchester.

Whatever your aspirations are for the metrolink or any other form of transport in the area we should be feeding this back to TfGM. Considering how much the councillors want the Stockport line and how pleased TfGM were with how well performing a marple tram train conversion would be, transport in the Stockport Borough is being seriously overlooked in their current strategy

[jimblob]

Adding Metrolink alongside the SEMMS bypass + segregated cycle lanes on the bypass, continuing the bypass to the M60 from Hazel Grove and extending Rose hill to Hazel grove would sure solve a lot of issues; but we only ever get half a job! I live in Marple and regularly go to the airport. To have an international airport with such poor transport links to it's surrounding (ever growing) affluent suburbs of travelling professionals seems crazy. As for getting into or out of the airport by car both in terms of traffic congestion but also the second mortgage required to even pick someone up from the airport, well that's criminal.

[Melancholyflower]

I fail to see how a Tram link to Stockport form Manchester helps Marple, given that people who choose to live in Marple mostly don’t wish to travel to the center of Stockport before going anywhere worthwhile.

(Trafford does not have trains links that are as good as Stockport and also has a shopping center that lots of people wish to get to.)

Most local people that don’t work in Manchester have to commute round Manchester to somewhere like the airport area, or they are commute into Stockport but not the centre of Stockport (e.g. Stepping hill).   It is very hard to get public transport to work unless you have a large flow of people going to the same location.

I think these posts are advocating a Marple-Manchester and also a Marple-Stockport link, ringi. I can't see any reference to Stockport-Manchester metrolink -  which though useful is probably not a priority, though it might help people living in South Manchester to get to Stockport more easily. At the end of the day it's hard to have too much public transport!

I think if they brought tram/train from Marple - Manchester and extended Rose Hill to Middlewood / Hazel Grove it would alleviate a lot of traffic congestion here. Even better would be to find a way to Stockport along the old Tiviot Dale line... somehow!

[ringi]

I fail to see how a Tram link to Stockport form Manchester helps Marple, given that people who choose to live in Marple mostly don’t wish to travel to the center of Stockport before going anywhere worthwhile.

(Trafford does not have trains links that are as good as Stockport and also has a shopping center that lots of people wish to get to.)

Most local people that don’t work in Manchester have to commute round Manchester to somewhere like the airport area, or they are commute into Stockport but not the centre of Stockport (e.g. Stepping hill).   It is very hard to get public transport to work unless you have a large flow of people going to the same location.

[lindavee]

I think we really ought to be sharing our views now before TfGM allocates all of the budget - there have been so many delays on the Sheffield to Rotherham tram-train project that were in danger that the money will be gone by the time it is complete and there'll never be this kind of capital put aside for greater Manchester transport again.

Lets not forget that Stockport has been pushing for a regular tram line to be built for years, which they clearly can do, and there was no mention of it in the transport strategy whereas Trafford is having a second line!! We need to apply pressure - Stockport Borough clearly isn't enough of a priority for TfGM

[ringi]

Battery power trams are also being testing at present, these can travel a short distance without being “under the wires”,   hence allowing the most expensive overhead wiring to be avoided.

So for example the tunnel to Marple Station could take trams without having to be wired.    The trams clearly cost more, but saves a lot of installation costs.

[JohnBates]

Tram-Train is waiting on the delayed trial of the technology in Rotherham. Until this is shown to work, tfgm can not bring it forward.  However we can apply pressure to apply it asap if shown to work.

https://www.sypte.co.uk/tramtrain/

[lindavee]

Since the TfGM recently published its 2040 transport strategy, I think its time to renew conversations about transport around Stockport and Marple - and more to the point, what's not happening.

Im sure most of us are aware about the 1.5 billion pound devolution deal and have noticed what seems like a rapid acceleration in the number of ambitious developments being announced in Greater Manchester.  Where the Growth Fund investments are made will directly determine which areas are developed and where the economy will flourish. 

Our Stockport councillors have been pushing for the Metrolink to Stockport for a number of years now- not surprising, given the general popularity of the Metrolink and how well it attracts people and businesses to those areas with the Metrolink.  Given the recent growth deal, this ought to finally be Stockport's chance to be put on the Metrolink map.  However, I read the 2040 transport strategy and although TfGM wrote about making the new Stockport interchange station and the Piccadilly Hub 'metrolink ready,' there was no specific mention of immediate plans to extend the Metrolink to the Stockport borough in amongst the transport plans and I find this very disappointing.

Furthermore, a few of us in the Marple area are aware that 4 years ago the TfGM was looking into extending the Metrolink map by tram-train technology.  In the TfGM 2012-2024 report (http://www.tfgm.com/trains/Documents/12-0247-GM-Rail-Policy-2012.pdf), they had this to say about the potential of expanding the Metrolink via tram-train:

"A programme based on a longer-term vision of progressive conversion of rail routes to tram-train in Greater Manchester would combine Metrolink’s flexibility and availability with heavy rail’s greater speed, at a lower capital cost than heavy rail, creating a momentum and viable business case to overcome these issues associated with new technology. The potential gains to the City and the Region are significant.  Greater Manchester will continue to examine the potential for tram-train technology to be implemented on rail routes into central Manchester as our analysis shows that on many routes investment in tram train have a positive business case and may result in a reduction in subsidy."

And in 2013, they published a study on several potential tram-train routes including Wigan, Knutsford, Glossop and Marple (file:///home/chronos/u-477b4e0cc6dd97baf728a278cf2525fef7bcd8da/Downloads/tramtraiTfgm.pdf) and determined that Marple was the most cost effective to convert and should form part of phase 1 of extending the metrolink.  However 3 years on, there's still no announcement that tram train is coming to us as
dishearteningly, the publication of the most recent strategy plan did not mention this previous plan of extending the metrolink to the Stockport borough via tram-train.  Despite being one of the most populated Greater Manchester boroughs, with one of the most populated towns within Greater Manchester and so close to the city centre, Stockport is one of the few Greater Manchester boroughs not yet on the Metrolink.  Meanwhile, it has just been announced that Trafford borough is receiving its second line.  I am not sure why Stockport borough continues to be shunned and I am awaiting TfGMs answer on this. I really think the marple area needs this - not just because being on the tram train means we're linked to multiple lines that the train isn't (a sorely needed marple-stockport line was also in the cards for the future, which would avoid unnecessary travel into the city centre) but also because it would help stimulate our local regeneration and economy.

I am urging others to also write to TfGM to ( if they feel the same as I do) express their disappointment with how, several years on, we are still awaiting our Stockport and Marple tram train line and are persistently being pushed down the queue. Its only with the publics actions that this will ever happen for our area!!
These are the email addresses for the main committee members:

cllr.a.fender@manchester.gov.uk
cllr.n.hassan@manchester.gov.uk
cllr.c.paul@manchester.gov.uk

Thanks, Linda