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Author Topic: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport  (Read 44273 times)

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JohnBates

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 08:22:50 PM »
How could  you make the car park at Marple station bigger .
Its the car park by the station (opposite side of the road to be precise). Could be expanded over the grassy area behind.

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amazon

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 08:11:11 PM »
Very true @Dave re the parking. That is a definite downside to Rosehill, and I agree that expansion of the car park by Marple station would be beneficial.
How could  you make the car park at Marple station bigger .

marplerambler

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 06:05:51 PM »
The BCR on Marple Stockport is more of a problem, which is why we need to emphasise the need, both in terms of modal shift in commuting, and also getting transport infrastructure planned for the likely need for new housing.
New housing in Marple? Good Lord, the Nimbys successfully screamed their heads off at the prospect of a new supermarket on of the very few sites which was to become available but it is a fact of life that despite the fact that opposition is likely to be vociferous, we don't have anywhere to do our weekly shop and the traffic jams to Stockport are horrendous and will become even worse when the SEMMS link between Hazel Grove and the M60 eventually creates further problems at Offerton Green it is an indisputable fact that Marple is at or near to the top of the wish list for potential house buyers in Stockport so where do the houses go?

Well, without a new road bridge over the River Goyt, Town Street is the only way in and out for most who live east of the Goyt plus a few feeding onto the A626 via Bonnington Rise and Ley Lane. Longhurst Lane is already suffering very considerable problems coping with traffic in the morning and evening rush periods so leaving aside aesthetic arguments and protection of the countryside, major development to the east seems impractical.

The huge area of open space remaining for housing development on the scale of Bosden Farm is to the west of the Middlewood Way at Rose Hill, from Hawk Green across to Torkington and High Lane across to the Racecourse Estate. The centre point of all of this development will be the line of the old railway/ Middlewood Way. Extensive development may not take place in the near future but as land for housing becomes increasingly scarce and the golf courses and landowners find themselves perched upon land which is so valuable it might as well have a vein of gold running beneath it  I have little doubt that the local authority, irregardless of political persuasion will eventually permit development.

Why not pre-empt this development by introducing train trams onto the Middlewood way line to create a link from Rose Hill to Hazel Grove and Stockport stations. New stops at the northern end of Winnington Road, Wood Lane, Torkington Road with an improvement in the road to serve car parks for people from Hawk Green and to the west of High Lane and then either drop to the Disley tunnel line or continue to Middlewood station.

If the above suggestion is considered to be too ambitious,I have said it before on the site but I will say it again, forget the Stockport - Guide Bridge line for a tram. It is so circuitous by the time you arrive at Stockport station it would have been quicker sitting on the bus. The best route for a tram from Marple to Stockport is railway line to Lingard Lane M60, along Brinnington Road to the Jack and Jill pub, drop into the old railway track cutting adjacent to St Bernadette's school, descend to use Tiviot Way to cross to the northern bank of the River Tame, cross the derelict fields below the Lancashire Hill flats, use Lancashire Hill Bridge across the M60 and then Princes St into Mersey Square and bus station.   

JohnBates

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 05:31:35 PM »
This may be off topic but the train service is dreadful. Several times I have been worried I cannot get back to pick children up because trains have been cancelled or are too crammed to get on. Northern Rail say there is no limit to how many passengers can cram in standing. I find that shocking. Older people can really struggle. It really is a poorer service than the vast majority of countries.

Any improvement in service would be welcome.

We should find out in next week or so who is the new Franchisee from next year, and hopefully details on any improvements to service/rolling stock for the area are proposed.

amazon

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 05:27:04 PM »
This may be off topic but the train service is dreadful. Several times I have been worried I cannot get back to pick children up because trains have been cancelled or are too crammed to get on. Northern Rail say there is no limit to how many passengers can cram in standing. I find that shocking. Older people can really struggle. It really is a poorer service than the vast majority of countries.

I think we desperately need a link to Stockport. Surely that would get some of the traffic off the road?  I have heard people that are wanting to work having to turn down job offers because they couldn't get out of Marple in time (especially if they also use childcare which doesn't usually start till 7:30/8am).

Any improvement in service would be welcome.
    So were would it go to stockport from marple .

JMC

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 04:46:48 PM »
This may be off topic but the train service is dreadful. Several times I have been worried I cannot get back to pick children up because trains have been cancelled or are too crammed to get on. Northern Rail say there is no limit to how many passengers can cram in standing. I find that shocking. Older people can really struggle. It really is a poorer service than the vast majority of countries.

I think we desperately need a link to Stockport. Surely that would get some of the traffic off the road?  I have heard people that are wanting to work having to turn down job offers because they couldn't get out of Marple in time (especially if they also use childcare which doesn't usually start till 7:30/8am).

Any improvement in service would be welcome. 

JohnBates

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 12:07:04 PM »
thanks  for separating out the thread.

As far as I am aware the BCR for Marple to Manchester is very good, and is likely to go ahead if the Tram train trials in Sheffield are successful. The BCR on Marple Stockport is more of a problem, which is why we need to emphasise the need, both in terms of modal shift in commuting, and also getting transport infrastructure planned for the likely need for new housing.

admin

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 09:41:53 AM »
I've broken this topic out from the John Bates: Marple North Candidate thread as it merits a separate one.

simonesaffron

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 08:55:02 AM »
I was also of the view that the tramtrain strategy for Marple was dead because of failure at business assessment, in simple terms money.

JohnBates,  I hope that you don't mind me using your post in such a way but I notice that SMBC's rep on the TfGM Executive is Councillor Geoff Abell, who coincidentally happens to be our local Councillor. Perhaps this is a good time for Councillor Abell to step forward and give us, his constituents, an informed opinion on the situation.   

JohnBates

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 09:41:04 AM »
Tram-train is an important and exciting development, and JohnBates makes some very good points here.  On balance, and with some regret, I can see that Rose Hill is likely to be the terminus for tram-train, especially because (a point not mentioned by John), it avoids the cost of electrifying the Marple North Tunnel.   But the down side is the low car park capacity at Rose Hill. Marple station has much more parking, plus the possibility of even more if the car park across the road can be extended across the big grassy area at the back.

Very true @Dave re the parking. That is a definite downside to Rosehill, and I agree that expansion of the car park by Marple station would be beneficial.

Dave

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2015, 09:30:35 AM »
There are arguments for and against either station being linked to the tram trains. Personally I am minded to think Rosehill may be better option for a metrolink terminus, as it would have less impact on capacity constraints for through trains. It also partially answers your capacity queries as it is likely to provide much improved capacity over current Rosehill service. Other advantages of tram train are the penetration of the service into the City Centre, and freeing capacity constraints at Piccadilly Station throat. Against this of course are lower top speeds (but higher acceleration) of the units.

Tram-train is an important and exciting development, and JohnBates makes some very good points here.  On balance, and with some regret, I can see that Rose Hill is likely to be the terminus for tram-train, especially because (a point not mentioned by John), it avoids the cost of electrifying the Marple North Tunnel.   But the down side is the low car park capacity at Rose Hill. Marple station has much more parking, plus the possbility of even more if the car park across the road can be extended across the big grassy area at the back.

JohnBates

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Re: Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 09:57:39 PM »
In terms of the tram train strategy for Marple to Stockport. Are you referring to the proposed curve at Reddish Vale which would link the Marple line to Stockport? I thought that this had been evaluated and failed to pass its business case assessment. If this is the case it has almost no chance of happening as it will not be funded, so why are you keen to promote something that won’t happen?

By Marple to Stockport I mean the longer term aspiration for a direct route, probably via Bredbury and Brinnington. This is route 4 in the councils rail strategy published in January.

However the most likely route to be initiated is Marple to Manchester, with a possible later link as you describe via Reddish to Stockport, with or without the chord. I am keen to promote these options as I feel they will be beneficial to Marple. However I am under no illusions that it is likely to happen soon, and as you say may not occur. That does not mean we should not actively look at the options.

Although I will have to wait for the consultation documents on tram trains Marple-Manchester before making final judgement, I am very concerned about this proposal and believe it could lead to a much worse service. The seating capacity of a 4 carriage train running every 15 minutes is far higher than a 4 carriage tram train running every 12 minutes. It also could be much slower. I have made my thoughts known in previous posts on this forum so won’t repeat them. Maybe you could clarify, which of the Marple stations would you prefer to be linked to the tram trains, is it Marple or Rose Hill?

There are lots of issues to look at, including frequency, capacity etc. There are arguments for and against either station being linked to the tram trains. Personally I am minded to think Rosehill may be better option for a metrolink terminus, as it would have less impact on capacity constraints for through trains. It also partially answers your capacity queries as it is likely to provide much improved capacity over current Rosehill service. Other advantages of tram train are the penetration of the service into the City Centre, and freeing capacity constraints at Piccadilly Station throat. Against this of course are lower top speeds (but higher acceleration) of the units.

The wider picture is the vision to have Stockport as a central hub for Tram Train allowing flows into and out of the centre both into the City centre and radially to the airport, HS2, Altrincham and Tameside. The Airport and HS2 potential links could be very important in the future as if HS2 developed we are likely to have reduced train paths from Stockport to London

hatter76

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Tram Train Strategy for Marple to Stockport
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 10:15:20 PM »

In particular I am keen to push for the bypass to be built from the A6 to Bredbury and for the Tram/Train strategy to Marple and Marple to Stockport. I also wish to promote and increase the use of our wonderful parks.[/i]

Credit to you for coming on this forum and engaging with people.
I am in Marple South, but I have a question which is just a relevant to Marple North.

In terms of the tram train strategy for Marple to Stockport. Are you referring to the proposed curve at Reddish Vale which would link the Marple line to Stockport? I thought that this had been evaluated and failed to pass its business case assessment. If this is the case it has almost no chance of happening as it will not be funded, so why are you keen to promote something that won’t happen?

Although I will have to wait for the consultation documents on tram trains Marple-Manchester before making final judgement, I am very concerned about this proposal and believe it could lead to a much worse service. The seating capacity of a 4 carriage train running every 15 minutes is far higher than a 4 carriage tram train running every 12 minutes. It also could be much slower. I have made my thoughts known in previous posts on this forum so won’t repeat them. Maybe you could clarify, which of the Marple stations would you prefer to be linked to the tram trains, is it Marple or Rose Hill?

In fairness to you John, the other parties say similar statements about tram trains so if they are reading this feel free to also contribute?