Self Catering Holiday Cottages in
Marple, Stockport & Cheshire

Author Topic: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre  (Read 36699 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

PhilB

  • Guest

Dave

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2021, 05:44:55 PM »
Done it.  Can't see what the fuss is about - it all seems quite reasonable to me. 

CllrGeoffAbell

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2021, 06:33:24 PM »
I note that if you wish to comment on these proposals, you have until 17 Sept to do so.

https://consultation.stockport.gov.uk/policy-performance-and-reform/safe-streets-save-lives-sssl-district-centre-20mph/

GM

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2021, 03:41:22 PM »
Even as a person who isn't a highways engineer, but has travelled a lot.

If you were going propose speed humps/cushions/grand canyon, at least put them as the pedestrian crossing which is what they do everywhere else I've been to!.

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2021, 03:31:52 PM »
The bolt down measures currently installed are non-compliant with The Highways (Road Humps) Regulations 1999 and are therefore illegal. The humps
closest to the crossing are within 30m of that crossing and are therefore in breach of the regulations. Three pairs of humps are sited adjacent to parking
laybys which the stage 1 safety audit conducted by Stockport's own Highways Team stated presented a risk of cars swerving into the laybys to avoid the
cushions and hitting pedestrians that might have stepped into the road to socially distance. The recommendations made in the saefty audit were ignored
when the cushions were installed! The bolt down cushions appear to have a vertical face greater than 6mm, which again contravene the aforementioned
regulations. They are also now lifting from the road and present a trip hazard as well a a vertical face of greater than 6mm.
The measures were installed without any traffic count or speed data available and it is highly questionable whether imposing a 20mph limit in Marple
District Centre is even necessary. The distances, junctions and traffic light setup at the moment make it almost impossible to achieve speeds greater than
20mph anyway, and for the minority of offenders who might attempt to exceed 20mph, speed cushions are unlikely to prevent them doing so.

Interestingly, when I put this to the Highways Team their response (after a mere 8 months) was
·       Normal procedures and standards were not always observed
·       A Road Safety Audit was carried out and did not identify the cushions outside of 85 Stockport Road as a hazard

point 1 means Stockport Highways Team seem to think they can break the law and acts of parliament don't apply to them
point 2 is simply a lie, ref their own safety audit (screenshot attached of the relevant paragraph augmented with actual photographic evidence showing the actual placement of the cushions as installed)

[attachment deleted by admin]

GM

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2021, 03:19:58 PM »
But we don't like getting criticism when we actually have a chance to be in charge.

Sounds very Cameron & Clegg  :)

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #96 on: August 17, 2021, 03:15:08 PM »
I might have to paraphrase my response.
The letter arrived with the local liberal leaflet, what a surprise.

They were lamenting about how the evil tories and labour are running the council.

25 labour, 26 liberal and they blame 8 Conservative.
;D ;D   they're running the council because they got the most votes!

GM

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #95 on: August 17, 2021, 03:11:54 PM »
I might have to paraphrase my response.
The letter arrived with the local liberal leaflet, what a surprise.

They were lamenting about how the evil tories and labour are running the council.

25 labour, 26 liberal and they blame 8 Conservative.

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #94 on: August 17, 2021, 02:59:13 PM »
I see the consultation on this is now in progress and can be commented on on the council website.

As you know, I consider the whole idea to be madness and an insult to Marple, but whatever you think, you can have your say. Whether any notice will be taken of the consultation is likely to depend on whether it agrees with what the council has already decided; or that's what it seems like happens with these "consultations".
completed....
feel free to cut and paste at your leisure if you agree.....

The bolt dwn measures currently installed are non-compliant with The Highways (Road Humps) Regulations 1999 and are therefore illegal. The humps
closest to the crossing are within 30m of that crossing and are therefore in breach of the regulations. Three pairs of humps are sited adjacent to parking
laybys which the stage 1 safety audit conducted by Stockport's own Highways Team stated presented a risk of cars swerving into the laybys to avoid the
cushions and hitting pedestrians that might have stepped into the road to socially distance. The recommendations made in the saefty audit were ignored
when the cushions were installed! The bolt down cushions appear to have a vertical face greater than 6mm, which again contravene the aforementioned
regulations. They are also now lifting from the road and present a trip hazard as well a a vertical face of greater than 6mm.
The measures were installed without any traffic count or speed data available and it is highly questionable whether imposing a 20mph limit in Marple
District Centre is even necessary. The distances, junctions and traffic light setup at the moment make it almost impossible to achieve speeds greater than
20mph anyway, and for the minority of offenders who might attempt to exceed 20mph, speed cushions are unlikely to prevent them doing so.

Condate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2021, 02:34:49 PM »
I see the consultation on this is now in progress and can be commented on on the council website.

As you know, I consider the whole idea to be madness and an insult to Marple, but whatever you think, you can have your say. Whether any notice will be taken of the consultation is likely to depend on whether it agrees with what the council has already decided; or that's what it seems like happens with these "consultations".

 

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2021, 10:48:51 AM »
But you are right about one thing - the stockport council highways /  planning department are not doing a good job for anybody

Again @nbt, I largely agree, but in particular with you closing point.

nbt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2021, 10:36:30 AM »
Sadly, it doesn't work that way. We need stick and carrot - both making an impact on the current methods of transport and providing alternatives. At the moment we're not providing alternatives. Years of "encouraging" have not resulted in a big enough change as quite frankly it's too easy to carry on the way we're currently behaing. Hopefully the new generations of electric bicyles will change things as it means people wil be able to get about more easily. I honestly think the e-bike is a game changes, they just need to become more affordable (I ride a LOT and can't justify the prices, but it's on the way)

You get the city you build for - if you build lots of roads, you will get lots of cars. If you build a place that's nice for walking and riding, then you will get people. Just look at dtuch and belgian cities in 1970 vs nowadays  - they made a conscious decision to prioritise people and as a result they're much nicer places to live in. Paris is making the same change on a more recent scale. Saying that "no one cycles so we do't need cycle lanes" is like saying "we don't need a bridge over the river here as no-one crosses at this point"

But you are right about one thing - the stockport council highways /  planning department are not doing a good job for anybody
NBT: Notoriously Bad Typist

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2021, 10:27:44 AM »
whilst I don't disagree with much of what you say @nbt , it's a simple question of return on investment.
I don't have exact figures but I believe our highways team should have these figures but doubt they do; but if the outcome of a £1M investment in cycle lanes encourages only 1 motorist out of every hundred to cycle but the remaining 99 motorist's journey is negatively impacted either because of damage to their vehicle because of speed humps, their journey is slower and they sit in a traffic jam increasing air pollution then there is no business case for the current approach and a more radical approach is required that doesn't impact users of the current only viable transport option for the large majority of people.

nbt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2021, 08:46:47 AM »
Right, let's have this. I ride bikes, I go walking, and I drive. I've pass my advanced driving test and qualified as an IAM observer. I passed my cycle proficiency back in the day.

Quote
Taking a perfectly safe and wide road

It's not perfectly safe and wide. It's wide, which makes it LESS SAFE. Width encourages speed. It's not safe to approach that roundabout at speed, you need to be slowing on approach. I'm sure at this point all of you will be jumping up and down in your seats saying "but I do slow down, I'm a good driver". Not everyone is a good driver, believe it or not, and sadly the number of "not good" drivers is increasing and that is NOT GOOD for road safety, regardles of whether you are on foot or in a bike (I'm not bothering with those in a big protective metal cage, you have the cage to protect you)


Quote
no one really wants this stuff
I do, and so do other people. You may not, but you aren't everybody so you can't say "no one" wants this.


Quote
the testosterone fuelled mamals don't cycle on the cycle lanes anyway
well,. let's dissect that shall we?

"testosterone fuelled mamals" - so all people on bikes are just proving how manly they are, is that right? We never see kids on bikes, or women? Or just people popping to the shops?

Quote
don't cycle on the cycle lanes

well that all depends on where the cycle lane is, where I'm going, what time it is and how the "cycle lane" is built. I used to commute to Cheadle for instance - If I did that nowadays, I STILL wouldn't use the "Perfectly good" Alan Newton Way cycle link between Marple and Stockport because it doesn't go where I want and it's really poorly surfaced. Many of the "cycle lanes" in Stockport are not actually constructed for the benefit of cyclists, they're deisgned to get those bloody bikes out of the way of the almighty all-important motor vehicle. Occasionally, rather than diverting off though a maze of back streets and thus covering twice the distance, they do run alongside a road - but in this case it's usually a "shared path" where cyclists and pedestrians are supposed to peacefully co-exist. This is an equally bad idea. Pedestrians wander along, chatting to each other or listening to music through headphones or whatever. Cyclists - even those just pottering along - travel at a faster speed and should not be asked to share the same space as it's dangerous for both sides. If I'm riding at a reasonable pace, I won't use a shared path like this unless I know it's going to be empty *for the entire length*.


The plain fact is there are too many cars on our roads, and they're all getting bigger and bigger. Electric cars are not the answer, as they're still car sized. We need to reduce our reliance on cars and encourage people to use other means of transport - walking to the shops, or walking the kids to school, rather than popping down in the car (I've walked to the shops from our house near the ring o'bells and seen neighbours drive the same distance, setting off and arriving at the same time!)

At the moment, public transport is woeful. We don't have a reliable, affordable service that is fit for purpose - unlike London, you can just leave the house and trust that there will be a bus / train along within a few minutes which will get you to where you need to go in a reasonable time. When I want to visit my Dad in Wigan, driving is the only reasonable choice, as public transport would take almost three times as long and cost more than double. This is not sustainable. We need to encourage people out of cars and onto bikes, buses, trains and foot. This means planning, supporting and building quality infrastructure both in terms of timetables and pricing when it comes to public transport, and safe, segragated infrastructure to allow people to cycle. The biggest blocker to people cycling at the moment is fear - people are afraid they'll be knocked off their bikes becuase of the sheer amount of traffic and the initimidating nature of drivers who either just don't look for cyclists or worse still see them and see them as fair game for being stupid enoug to ride on the road

Not every person can ride, I get that. Not every person wants to ride, I get that. But, many people can and do. If you oppose every single safety measure so that you can continue to drive unimpeded, then the amount of traffic will never reduce and you'll remain sitting in that queue of traffic. Every person on a bike is one less person in a car. Think about that the next time you say that cyclists are holding you up - it's not bikes that cause traffic james, it's cars.

NBT: Notoriously Bad Typist

jimblob

  • Guest
Re: More "Safe Street" proposals in Marple centre
« Reply #88 on: June 24, 2021, 08:18:11 AM »
Similar to the terrible road width reduction scheme they're doing from Bramhall roundabout up past the Hazel Grove leisure centre.

Taking a perfectly safe and wide road and chopping it up to create a cycle lane whilst narrowing the road at what I can only assume is an astronomical cost!.
Exactly, but no one really wants this stuff, it simply impedes traffic flow, often creates a more dangerous environment, the testosterone fuelled mamals don't cycle on the cycle lanes anyway, we foot the bill but it keeps Stockport Highways team busy. No one seems to be prepared to stand up to them and say NO.