Wildflowers

[jimblob]

Well done Stockport Council and congratulations on your grass verge maintenance programme. You don't mow them.... OK, so it's been lockdown, so I do it for you, even throw down some seed and keep the edges in check. You come along post lockdown and kill most of it.... Bravo!

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[Steve Gribbon]

Good afternoon.

Please see the link below for the question raised to me at the full Council meeting last Thursday followed by my answer. It's at 48 minutes 45 seconds.

As ever constructive comments and opinions are welcome. Thanks for watching to those who do.

Kind regards

Steve

https://stockport.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/429267

[Howard]

Some of the beaurocracy around this may, in part, be down to the Council's desire to keep control of the verge. Some people have exploited the law to maintain such verges and then, through time, to 'claim' ownership via adverse possession.

If the Council has a written record of 'maintaining' the verge themselves or agreeing under license that a local frontage property owner is doing it with theor permission, they keep control and the issue of land claims is removed.

I'm all for some wildflower planting, as long as it is maintained and encouraged properly. What happened to Dan Bank? That was supposed to be wild flower planted after the tree removal and look at the straggly mess it is now..... although I do like the recent fairy ring planting in the tree stumps (not a Council innovation I would guess!)

You're right. That is a local retired gentleman who collects litter as well are creating and planting flower beds. He's a bit of a local celebrity in the Marple Hub Facebook Group. I believe, although I don't use it myself.

[Belly]

Some of the beaurocracy around this may, in part, be down to the Council's desire to keep control of the verge. Some people have exploited the law to maintain such verges and then, through time, to 'claim' ownership via adverse possession.

If the Council has a written record of 'maintaining' the verge themselves or agreeing under license that a local frontage property owner is doing it with theor permission, they keep control and the issue of land claims is removed.

I'm all for some wildflower planting, as long as it is maintained and encouraged properly. What happened to Dan Bank? That was supposed to be wild flower planted after the tree removal and look at the straggly mess it is now..... although I do like the recent fairy ring planting in the tree stumps (not a Council innovation I would guess!)

[andrewbowden]

I'm afraid I'm more of a common sense person rather than one for bureaucracy;

• If it doesn't need herbicide, don't spray it.
  If some

one is prepared to mow some lawn that's in need of mowing, let them.
maybe indicative of the world in which we now live, paying people to oversee things but where there is no added value! nice if you can afford it.

If you need enough bits of grass mowing and some spraying that it's a full time job, why employ a qualified gardener when you can employ someone to mow the grass?

And whilst you might know what needs herbicide and what doesn't, not everyone does.  I don't.  But do I know how to mow?  Hell yeah.

[jimblob]

Interesting questions... (I don't know the answer to)
You may feel that is over the top.  But I am thinking here mainly of the practicalities of a council looking after hundreds of plots of land, and the administration of that.

I'm afraid I'm more of a common sense person rather than one for bureaucracy;

• If it doesn't need herbicide, don't spray it.
  If some

one is prepared to mow some lawn that's in need of mowing, let them.
maybe indicative of the world in which we now live, paying people to oversee things but where there is no added value! nice if you can afford it.

[amazon]

My garden is full of flowers, frut trees, pollen a-plenty for the birds and the bees, not convinced lining all our roads with it is entirely necessary if it's driving objective; that being to save our incomptent council at Stockport some of OUR money isn't met.

You have a loverly garden whish i had one like that .

[andrewbowden]

I guess my cynicism is more associated with the council than the good intentions of the proposal itself.
several years ago I complaiend to the council because the verge outside my property I'd lovingly maintained over several years (because the council hadn't!) was sprayed with herbicide by the council without any consideration as to it's condition or there being any need to do so, the net result being that my hard work (and cost) was undone in a single mindless act.

Interesting questions... (I don't know the answer to)

The person employed to mow things and spray herbicide...  Are they experienced gardeners, or someone who knows how to do the things they are asked to do?

And also what would the response of their bosses if it was found out they hadn't done your verge as they had been told to do?

The answers to those questions (and maybe others) may explain why your verge got treated despite your efforts.  Such is the risk with doing work on land you don't own.

On requesting that they (the council) desist from doing this in the future I was told that in fact, to mow and tend to the grass verge outside my own property I'd need to apply for a license to do so!!! 

Although what they said makes sense.  You fill in the paperwork, they have a record of your intent, and then they know not to do anything with the land.  Not thinking of mowing here, but planting etc...  Thinking in the context of my questions above, a "licence" (or whatever you want to call it) basically equates to a record held by the council staff.  No record anywhere means no agreement.

You may feel that is over the top.  But I am thinking here mainly of the practicalities of a council looking after hundreds of plots of land, and the administration of that.

[jimblob]

Hi Steve,
believe me, I do get it and I think in the right places and done well it's a great idea.

I guess my cynicism is more associated with the council than the good intentions of the proposal itself.
several years ago I complaiend to the council because the verge outside my property I'd lovingly maintained over several years (because the council hadn't!) was sprayed with herbicide by the council without any consideration as to it's condition or there being any need to do so, the net result being that my hard work (and cost) was undone in a single mindless act. On requesting that they (the council) desist from doing this in the future I was told that in fact, to mow and tend to the grass verge outside my own property I'd need to apply for a license to do so!!! 

Stockport council continually demonstrate an inability to think outside the box, embrace anything other than their job descriptions, but love to waste huge amounts of money (our money), usually on speed humps instead of reparing potholes.. etc etc... My responses here have merely been playing devil's advocate to the proposal based on my previous experiences with Stockport Council. Youve' seen my other correspondences with them over Rose Hill tip et al, so you know what I'm dealing with.

All I would ask, is that any approach taken is done with thought (which it certainly sounds like it is from your earlier response), and moderation, (a word sadly missing from Stockport council's vocabulary in my opinion).

[Steve Gribbon]

are we not missing the point here?
The initial trigger for the option to put wildflowers in grass verges is because the council only mow them (and quite poorly at that) twice a year.
However, it has been shown in other trials of this that the council then have to attend the verges (perhaps more often) when they are seeded with wildflowers because they can grow to a height that might affect vision for motorists/cyclists/pedestrians at junctions. There is therefore a negligable cost saving.
So whilst I'm not against wildflowers, they look nice.... this doesn't actually save the council any money and actualyl forces them to have attend to the verges for safety reasons rather than aesthetic ones.
I'm merely playing this from the perspective of the council and the "logic" they often apply.

Hi Jim, please allow me reply to this.

The initial trigger from our point of view was not due to mowing, it was because we have a vested interest in both the environment and creating something where we live. When we have met Council officers it has always been with a mutual desire to implement something positive and never once has mowing been mentioned. I can’t speak for other Councils. The initiative has not been driven by the Council, it has been done by Colin Macalister and I and we have had tremendous feedback supporting our project when we have asked people for their opinions on social media. Several hundred people have supported our updates, only one person has opposed who commented that we are not doing enough and should be out scattering seeds, I did reply to say it’s Council land so simple scattering is not an option and I want this to be done correctly.

Wildflowers can grow to various heights, we are looking at flowers with a growth of around 2 foot which will reduce the need for maintenance and also be trouble free for driving. What must be done is a splay cut which takes a foot off the side of each verge so flowers which are angled with (for example heavy rain) will not affect cyclists or pedestrians.

Nottingham saved £150 on their pilot scheme, in contrast to that Rotherham claimed savings of £25,000 on the 8 miles of wildflowers they planted so the savings are to me in line with whatever initial investment is put in.

Whilst doing my research I’ve not seen anywhere that states an increase in hay fever or the need for increased medication.

Kind regards and I hope this helps

Steve

[jimblob]

Hence no wildlife bees bugs buterflies ....

My garden is full of flowers, frut trees, pollen a-plenty for the birds and the bees, not convinced lining all our roads with it is entirely necessary if it's driving objective; that being to save our incomptent council at Stockport some of OUR money isn't met.


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[amazon]

but you only get grass pollen if it's allowed to flower, (ie it's not mowed). keep it short and there's no flower, and hence no pollen

Hence no wildlife bees bugs buterflies ....

[jimblob]

are we not missing the point here?
The initial trigger for the option to put wildflowers in grass verges is because the council only mow them (and quite poorly at that) twice a year.
However, it has been shown in other trials of this that the council then have to attend the verges (perhaps more often) when they are seeded with wildflowers because they can grow to a height that might affect vision for motorists/cyclists/pedestrians at junctions. There is therefore a negligable cost saving.
So whilst I'm not against wildflowers, they look nice.... this doesn't actually save the council any money and actualyl forces them to have attend to the verges for safety reasons rather than aesthetic ones.
I'm merely playing this from the perspective of the council and the "logic" they often apply.

[Howard]

but you only get grass pollen if it's allowed to flower, (ie it's not mowed). keep it short and there's no flower, and hence no pollen

Seeing as the council only mow the verge in front of my house twice a year, I'd prefer wildflowers. I do it myself now otherwise it looks like this:

[jimblob]

You'll never guess what the big problems are for summertime hayfever...

Well you might but I will pretend you won't for the purposes of effect.

Grass pollen.
https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/immune-system/hay-fever

Mowing grass causes problems as it disrupts the pollen.

but you only get grass pollen if it's allowed to flower, (ie it's not mowed). keep it short and there's no flower, and hence no pollen