Limiting how often we use the tip

[andrewbowden]

Most councils who do that though, do it because they don't have an equivalent to the Greater Manchester Waste Disposal Authority, and so (from the council's point of view) there's a real problem of people who live in neighbouring council districts, using a tip that they're not entitled to use - my brother lives in London, and the two tips that are closest to him/easiest to get to, are run by neighbouring councils, and so he is supposed to travel quite some distance to the only tip in his borough rather than use either of those.

Funnily enough I used to live in London and my council's tip was on the border with a neighbouring borough.  Right on the border.

The problem is commerical waste, but instead of tackling that, they are introducing restrictions on domestic use!

But how do you tackle that problem when someone with commercial waste can simply drive into a recycling centre in a car.

Yes they're putting restrictions on domestic use.  They're doing it because there's nothing to stop commercial operators abusing the system if they have the ability to.  I've had tradespeople drive up in estate car or a small van before.  How do you tell (say) an electrician driving a car with commercial waste, from me driving a car with domestic waste?

[marpleexile]

Many councils - including one I used to live in - have a permit system where you have to show proof of residence to use their facilities. 

Most councils who do that though, do it because they don't have an equivalent to the Greater Manchester Waste Disposal Authority, and so (from the council's point of view) there's a real problem of people who live in neighbouring council districts, using a tip that they're not entitled to use - my brother lives in London, and the two tips that are closest to him/easiest to get to, are run by neighbouring councils, and so he is supposed to travel quite some distance to the only tip in his borough rather than use either of those.

That's just not an issue round here because of the GMWDA - for example Marple residents are allowed to use the Stalybridge tip if they want/need to - but I doubt that there are many Macclesfield residents who are trekking into Stockport to use Adswood instead of the Macc one. The only out of area people who would feasibly want to use "our" tips, would be Glossopdale residents (who are part of Derbyshire), but again they have their own tip in Glossop.

The problem is commerical waste, but instead of tackling that, they are introducing restrictions on domestic use!

[andrewbowden]

Many councils - including one I used to live in - have a permit system where you have to show proof of residence to use their facilities.  That's one potential answer although that then has its own problems. Like visitors.  When on holiday (for example) I've used local recycling centres because the holiday accommodation didn't have any recycling facilities. 

And besides, the thing they're trying to stop is a commercial contractor disposing of waste through the domestic system when they should be disposing of waste through the commercial waste system.  If (say) a contractor is based in Marple and doing such things, a permit system continues to allow them to do it - thus not solving the problem.

The problem ultimately is traders doing things they shouldn't.  Not anyone else.  I generally feel the limits are very generous for domestic use.  And if a domestic user is visiting the tip twice a week, I'd be a little concerned about the waste they're generating!

[Dave]

Harry it's all about the difference between capital spending and revenue spending.  Long-term capital investment is one thing, but day-to-day running costs come from a completely different budget.   Local authorities can commit huge sums to long-term capital projects because they can be confident that there will be an adequate return on the investment.   

Day-to-day running costs are entirely different. The spending does not generate any future revenue. And at the root of the problem is that local authorities are faced with spiraling costs for social care, which is a mandatory area of spending. That, in a nutshell, is why our parks and children's playgrounds are run down, we have fewer public toilets, libraries are closed or rely on volunteers, the pavements are badly maintained, the roads are full of potholes and there is litter everywhere. It's called austerity, and we voted for it.

[Harry]

Hmm.... as my mum used to say, what you want and what you get are two different things!  The residents of Stockport and other local authorities may want all sorts of lovely delights, but that doesn’t mean we can have them.  For the last nine years local authorities have been systematically starved of government funding, and the impact on refuse collection and recycling is only one of many adverse effects.

Stockport Council may profess to be 'starved of government funding' but they have been spending money like Viv Nicholson.

They've bought Edgeley Park and Merseyway. Built the Redrock carbuncle. Redeveloping the Grand Central site and station area. Planning to redevelop west of the town centre, the bus station and a multi million redevelopment of Merseyway. That's not to mention all the new roads.

Perhaps it's a question of priorities, as the cost of keeping the recycling centres open to all is minimal.

[Dave]

if the residents of Stockport want unlimited access to the recycling centre that is what they should have.

Hmm.... as my mum used to say, what you want and what you get are two different things!  The residents of Stockport and other local authorities may want all sorts of lovely delights, but that doesn’t mean we can have them.  For the last nine years local authorities have been systematically starved of government funding, and the impact on refuse collection and recycling is only one of many adverse effects.

[Stephen]

When I go it is almost always to take items for recycling - it is after all a recycling centre. Maybe it will just become easier to put everything including recyclable items into the black bin and let it go to landfill. That could be what happens in a lot of cases going forward. Also - the council are here to serve the residents not the other way round, if the residents of Stockport want unlimited access to the recycling centre that is what they should have.

[Harry]

I think the problem will be in 2-3 years with announcements along the lines of:

"Our data shows most residents only use this facility (say) 20 times a year so reducing the number of visits to 21 per annum won't inconvenience most users"

or

"As part of Greater Manchesters commitment to increasing recycling we have decided to reduce the number of visits to (say) 30 per annum" followed by a further reduction 2-3 years later

I think it would be more likely that the future announcement would be along the lines of:

"Due to reduced usage we will be consolidating the number of recycling depots from the current 20 across Greater Manchester down to (say) 15"

[corium]

I think the problem will be in 2-3 years with announcements along the lines of:

"Our data shows most residents only use this facility (say) 20 times a year so reducing the number of visits to 21 per annum won't inconvenience most users"

or

"As part of Greater Manchesters commitment to increasing recycling we have decided to reduce the number of visits to (say) 30 per annum" followed by a further reduction 2-3 years later

[wheels]

But do you take your Barrow , Happy new year to all .

Well I'm glad I walked there this morning the cars were tailed back to where the guy with the scrap iron stands.

[amazon]

I often walk there with stuff. It's a reason for a walk and to carry something. So reading the article as I don't have number plates round my neck it seems I can go as often as I like. 😃

But do you take your Barrow , Happy new year to all .

[wheels]

I often walk there with stuff. It's a reason for a walk and to carry something. So reading the article as I don't have number plates round my neck it seems I can go as often as I like. 😃

[marpleexile]

So how often do you go to the tip per week

That's not the point.

I'd imagine that we're fairly typical - don't use the tip very often as our normal waste just goes in our household bins - but every couple of months we'll do something at home that generates a lot of waste in one go (clear out the attic, renovate a room, an overhaul of the garden to name the last three we did) which we will take to the tip in multiple trips over the course of a weekend, or a week.

Because I've actually read the details, and not just gone off the clickbait headline in the MEN, I know that we'd be OK to do that, as the total number of trips will be way less than 52 in a 12 month period - but I can imagine that a lot of people won't read the details, will think that they can literally only visit once a week, and so will uncessarily fly tip the rest.

[Dave]

Is this really a problem? How many people would actually use the tip 52 times between January and August? That’s an average of about 7 visits per month.  I reckon I use it about once a month!

[Harry]

This doesn't seem like a very good idea.

I'd wager most people won't understand the distinction between 1 visit per week, and an average of 1 visit per week, and will fly tip because they think they can't go back to the tip this week.

Meanwhile, the dodgy types who this is supposedly being aimed at will just continue to flout the rules.

The problem will come when people are refused access in, for example, August, because they’ve used their quota. Four months of rubbish will have to go somewhere.