Voting for Brexit

[Melancholyflower]

Sigh...... 🙄. This is indeed trivial and it’s also boring. But I suppose I had better explain. Most countries have standardised weights and measures for the protection of consumers against being ripped off.  So in the UK it has for many years been illegal to sell in quantities such as the bushel, the peck and the stone.  A few years ago a publican was fined for selling beer by the half litre (the standard measure is the pint). For some reason the Melancholies of this world never made a fuss about that in the Daily Mail.

"Sigh.....  "

Who said we were turning our backs on peace? Anyone?

Lazily stereotyping people who disagree with you as Daily Mail readers - as well as being irrelevant - is also shabbily incorrect:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1042009/Pub-threatened-hefty-fine-serving-lager-litre-glasses-instead-pints.html

You must try harder 

You still haven't been able to link "peace in Western Europe" to the mountain of unnecessary legislation we've had to endure. 

Perhaps because, say,  France, Germany and Britain now weigh all their fruit and vegetables in kilos and grams a war has thus been prevented?

If that sounds trivial (clue - it is) - then why enact it at all?

[Dave]

Dave continually seeks to trivialise someone being arrested by the police for selling in pounds and ounces by saying that it doesn't matter.

Sigh...... 🙄. This is indeed trivial and it’s also boring. But I suppose I had better explain. Most countries have standardised weights and measures for the protection of consumers against being ripped off.  So in the UK it has for many years been illegal to sell in quantities such as the bushel, the peck and the stone.  A few years ago a publican was fined for selling beer by the half litre (the standard measure is the pint). For some reason the Melancholies of this world never made a fuss about that in the Daily Mail.

Are we really going to turn our back on seventy years of peace in order to scrap consumer protection laws? I really hope not!

[Rudolph Hucker]

Read my earlier posts, I've said so often enough.

Can I ask that you to indulge me. I've read all 200 posts during the life of this thread and can't recall you ever saying. Sure, you've said what's wrong with Europe but not what specific laws you would change on 1/1/21.

RH.

[Melancholyflower]

So, what laws do you want to change come 1/1/21 please Melancholyflower?

RH.

Read my earlier posts, I've said so often enough.

[Rudolph Hucker]

For every law against weights and measurements, there's another law that allows rampant Spanish fishermen to eviscerate North Sea fishing stocks (ours were rather good at conserving them properly), or a law against meat storage that sent loads of companies out of business, or a law that means women have to pay higher premiums for their life insurance even though it should be cheaper because they live longer, and more for their car insurance when statistically they have less accidents.  But none of this matters, of course!

So, what laws do you want to change come 1/1/21 please Melancholyflower?

RH.

[Melancholyflower]

This is a misconception commonly claimed by Brexiters wishing to play down the achievements of the EU.  The United Nations was established in the late 1940s to advance the cause of world peace. It now has nearly 200 members - most countries in the world.  Sadly, many of these have been or are still at war with one another.  The UN is a worthy organisation but it has never prevented war, unfortunately.

Who mentioned other countries "at war with one another"?  I specifically mentioned Western Europe.  Claims that the EU has prevented war in Western Europe carry no more weight than claims that the UN / NATO have prevented war in Western Europe.  Don't try to change the subject.

You heard it here first, and then second, and then third... Dave continually seeks to trivialise someone being arrested by the police for selling in pounds and ounces by saying that it doesn't matter. 

For every law against weights and measurements, there's another law that allows rampant Spanish fishermen to eviscerate North Sea fishing stocks (ours were rather good at conserving them properly), or a law against meat storage that sent loads of companies out of business, or a law that means women have to pay higher premiums for their life insurance even though it should be cheaper because they live longer, and more for their car insurance when statistically they have less accidents.  But none of this matters, of course! 

[Dave]

The main practical bulwark against war in Western Europe since 1945 was the combination of the United Nations and NATO.

.

This is a misconception commonly claimed by Brexiters wishing to play down the achievements of the EU.  The United Nations was established in the late 1940s to advance the cause of world peace. It now has nearly 200 members - most countries in the world.  Sadly, many of these have been or are still at war with one another.  The UN is a worthy organisation but it has never prevented war, unfortunately.

NATO is a military alliance between the USA and the countries of western Europe, set up to co-ordinate our response in the event of attack by the then Soviet Union.   That’s all.

We are enjoying the longest period of peace between the countries of Western Europe for 2,000 years.  That is what matters, not weights and measures - or bananas for that matter!

[Melancholyflower]

This is just so very very sad. That an organisation established in the aftermath of two catastrophic world wars - a wonderfully idealistic vision to bring to an end 2,000 years of war in Western Europe- should end with squabbling over weights and measures.  So very sad.

I'm sad that this particular "squabble" started with you casually dismissing criminal proceedings against a British subject over an utterly unnecessary piece of legislation.  I know it's hard to argue against facts, but it's dishonest to trivialise them by just repeating what you've said earlier.

The main practical bulwark against war in Western Europe since 1945 was the combination of the United Nations and NATO. The EU was not the only project to rebuild European relations/trade after the war. But its origins started long before then anyway (look up Spinoza, Salter and Monnet).

The one thing you have right is that the EU project was always utterly idealistic. In fact, it was due to the fanatical fervour of its founders that it supplanted the other equally laudable but more moderate efforts to facilitate good relations between nations (such as EFTA), but deliberately hid true intentions of a stifling political union until much later on down the line.

[Dave]

This is just so very very sad. That an organisation established in the aftermath of two catastrophic world wars - a wonderfully idealistic vision to bring by to an end 2,000 years of war in Western Europe- should end with squabbling over weights and measures.  So very sad.

[Melancholyflower]

They were mostly market-trading refusniks who decided to make a stand by ONLY selling in imperial. The law stated you needed prices in both, which is which you buy a pound of jam in 454g. They could easily have avoided it by adding one line to their prices. It's a non-story.

Non-story?  Do you seriously think someone should be made to be a criminal for selling in pounds and ounces?   There were an estimated 38,000 of your "refusniks" who continued to sell in imperial because it's what their customers wanted. After the Steve Thoburn case they were understandably frightened to continue doing that.

I cited that case because it directly contradicts Dave's claim that the EU has been a peaceful, freedom-loving democracy "working in partnership".  If it respected "freedom" then the Metric Directive would never have got off the ground, and wouldn't have passed into UK law.  By such means are people bullied into changing their behaviours.

On that point, I was taught metric only when I was in primary school in 1974. I have NEVER officially been taught imperial measurements.

Nothing to do with my point. Do you mentally convert pints into litres when you go to a pub because it's what you were taught at school?

[Howard]

If it's a bad example, why were British shopkeepers prosecuted for selling in pounds and ounces?

They were mostly market-trading refusniks who decided to make a stand by ONLY selling in imperial. The law stated you needed prices in both, which is which you buy a pound of jam in 454g. They could easily have avoided it by adding one line to their prices. It's a non-story.

On that point, I was taught metric only when I was in primary school in 1974. I have NEVER officially been taught imperial measurements.

[Melancholyflower]

It’s OK Melancholy - now we are out of the clutches of the hated EU we are free to have bananas any shape we want 

Seriously, Melancholy, metrication is a bad example to use, because the U.K. adopted the metric system in the mid 1960s, some years before we joined what was then the EEC.  But we still go out for a pint, and I weigh 13 stone ?? lb, and later today I’ll drive 12 miles to work. Ever bought vegetables by the etto in an Italian market? I think it’s about 3 ounces. The big bad EU is metric, but it’s also civilised and relaxed about local variations and traditions. But that’s not what the Daily Mail would have you believe, of course. 

If it's a bad example, why were British shopkeepers prosecuted for selling in pounds and ounces?

[amazon]

Forgot the 50p coins, I want my £350m NOW!

In coins

[Howard]

Forgot the 50p coins, I want my £350m NOW!

[Cyberman]

Brexiteers! You can buy your commemorative 50p's on Ebay for £17.95 (free postage). Better hurry - he's sold 28 already!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRE-SALE-2020-Brexit-50p-coin-del-late-Feb/133298985536?hash=item1f093d1a40:g:9MgAAOSwWxxeLer9