Some bad citizens of Marple

[alan@marple]

Well everybody seems to be content    good!

[tina]

Well said 'Tommy Cooper'
well done for getting out of the hole of drink and drugs that alone needs a pat on the back, but an extra well done for your degrees, it shows not all kids are bad and just need time to find their own path in life.  '>

Id just like to say that im a 20yr old male who spent most of his teenage life on the streets of Marple.  I had no direction and all me and my friends ever seemed to get was people like you 'Fed Up' telling us that we were useless kids who deserved to go to jail. I used to block out all the ridicule by getting drunk or smoking drugs which in turn almost killed me.

I have now been through college and have a degree in Psychology and Sociology. I don't drink or smoke any more and love life. I just wish someone could have helped me and my friends back in those awefull times, instead of sweeping us under the mat a labeling us as the town vermin.

[Rachael]

fed up, to say you stand alone, I feel is blinkered to all the comments that us "protective mothers who have their arms around their little darlings" have said.

You see one road, you are as I say blinkered, and you have not read or thought about comments people have made, and I feel that it is sad, yes, you have some valid points that all us mothers would agree with.

You didnt give me good cause to agree with all your points, as I pointed out to you before, you have never given good reason or justified the strong comments or opinions, although I have asked for your reply more than once.

I think its a shame, I really do. '>

Well all I seem to have done, is to wrap the protective arm of mothers around their little darlings who were never intended to be the subject matter of my initial thread.

Notwithstanding that, I give up, its obvious that I stand alone and so I will leave it alone and let the prevailing attitudes steer the course of direction for the future.

Youth work, voluntary work charity work I've done all those things, so for those who suggest it to me " I don't need lessons"

I leave you all to it

farewell

Marple

If you look at the tv shows and listen to the radio nowadays there are gangsta rappers and actors like '50 cent' who wear baseball caps and swear.  The youth of today look up to these people. Not all, but a vast majority of kids think that that is the cool way to behave, simply because that is what is pushed in front of their faces. I bet back in your day (if you are extremely old hehe) you were into 'Fonzy' from happy days and tried to copy his style.

The kids who are 'loud and offensive' usually come from homes where the parents are 'loud and offensive'. Ive seen this first hand. I know. Some kids copy this style even if they come from decent backgrounds just to fit in.

The young kids you see drinking on the streets dont buy the alcohol themselves. Its older brothers, or people over 18 that buy it for them. Again, i know.

As for the 'filthy' language, again its the trend nowadays. Its all over the tv and in most modern teenage music.

Quote from an eminem song: I JUST DONT GIVE A F**K!

So, instead of pointing the finger and saying 'you're a lout' how about chatting with these kids and asking them in a nice way 'why they do what they do'. You might get a sensible answer. Who knows!

[Rachael]

The replies to this thread are beginning to go right over my head, Im struggling to find this easy reading anymore '>

All I wanted was some reasons to Fed ups comments, please lets not turn this from one topic into another, talks of racism quite often fall on "Dodgy" ground (by the way racism isnt always to do with colour of skin) so I think the comments made regarding racism should be put to bed.

Fed up, where are you??? Like I said, on my other posts, you have not  explained your reasons for feeling the way you do, you have gone "around the houses" when being asked.

What if it was your son or daughter, would you still expect the punishment to fit the crime 100% no allowances??

Possibly I am speaking out of turn? but as a mother of 2 sons, I can only hope and pray with guidance that my sons grow up to be decent, kind,  hard working law abiding citizens, that the picture of their youth (hoodies and all) doesnt automaticly paint the future of their lives! '>

[Howard]

Alan,

I was not calling "fed up" a racist. I was merely pointing out that judging people on their appearance is an attitude commonplace amongst racists. "Fed up" equates hoodie + cap = thug. Paraphrasing, I know, but that is the essence of the statement. I equate judging people on their appearance with racism and other reprehensible acts of discrimination. Of course, if the hoodie-wearing individual continues to demonstrate behaviour associated with thuggishness, such as spitting, swearing, swigging alchopops in public etc then you can label them as "thug" with no further argument from me.

Anyway, back to the point of your post, which you are correct, I did not answer "fed up"'s questions about why this behaviour exists and is tolerated. My theory about why we have anti-social behaviour is that this is a problem inherent in human society.

Low-level anti social behaviour is a byproduct of *any* society that does not rely on every member having to perform a useful function that perpetuates the survival of that society. For example, primitive hunter-gatherer societies did/do not suffer from the problem as every member of the group has a function. Whether that function  is hunting, gathering, preparation of food or shelter etc., every member, not matter how young or old must contribute or they don't get the food, warmth and protection against the harshness of the world and they will die.

As soon as a society becomes "civilised", and you can look back as far as the Romans, the Greeks, or even the truly ancient civilisations from the Golden Crescent around Mesopotamia etc then you end up having some "slack" in the system. Instead of calling it "slack" call it "leisure time". The more leisure time a society has, the more automated and structured the infrastructure supporting that society becomes and this is a cycle that perpetuates and exacerbates the situation.

Eventually this leads to people feeling less reliant on their tribe and people concentrate on the "me" rather than the "we". Young people are inherently selfish until they have been taught that "we" is more important than "me" which is why education and training is so important for our young people.

To summarise, anti-social behaviour will always be present in our soiciety unless:
1) we are able to educate young people about what is acceptable to perpetuate the existance of our society
2) They have the intelligence to realise the value of this education and act on that understanding

Therefore, unless a society is under immediate threat of extinction there will continue to be a certain amount of selfish behaviour because, in the end, there are always a few stupid people who just don't give a sh*t.

That's my philosophy anyway.

[alan@marple]

"
A civilised society that can no longer feel outrage, can no longer be civilised. "

I hasten to add not my words but a quote I found on Civilised society on the net





Having returned from absence for a week, I feel compelled to respond to the miscellany of comments and observations that have been submitted since the publications of " Fed up"'s article on youth and young adults.

It certainly has caused much thought and in some cases " offence" although personally  I feel the writer makes some valid and good points.

The writer in my opinion,  started by complimenting the majority of young people and made reference to the St Georges Day parade, I too watched this parade and agree it was pleasurable to watch, the church was full and I might add not just with " Christian Folk" but people of other religions and ethnic backgrounds and I have no reason to doubt that others were there perhaps from a spiritual influence or just to demonstrate their love of their homeland, whether it be by birth or naturalisation.

Probably more  families could have been there, save for the
demands of  work and family responsibilities and needs and I must accept that others,  perhaps are not interested, that is their choice,after all, we are still a free country,thanks to the brave men and women who served during the war.


I note that "Fed up" asked the question why does this unruly behaviour go on unabated and yet no one has even suggested a reason, some mothers rapidly wrote in defence of their own children and rightly so, but the writer was not getting at those children of responsible parents and who I am sure, share the same views on decent society as the majority of us.

I feel that Howard who as we know is a regular contributor to this forum should rethink his attitudes particularly to-wards the writer, I do not believe that this forum should be used for any intentional insulting comments, but really to suggest that " fed up" is a racists!! I don't recall reading anything about the colour of these peoples skins, we all know that offenders and criminals come from every branch of the human tree.

I am so pleased that Howard's children are members of the Beavers, Brownies etc so are some of my grandchildren, I like Howard, place trust in the leadership of the supervisors of these groups and I agree with his views that the children are taught the skills to deal with life and also to live in harmony with each other and the community.I have a grandson who goes with his dad every week to learn the art  of Karate he has progressed well he learns discipline of body and mind, it teaches him to be respectful and considerate to others it keeps him and his dad fit. I have another grandson in the beavers and a granddaughter in the brownies, one of my younger grandsons is becoming quite a star on the football field, all these activities contribute to the ever increasing need for youthful participation in the community activities.




Howard asks how the writer knows that the hoodies are not worn by these youngsters , well once again, the writer is referring to the criminal element of this section of society and as "fed up" says , he (or she) was referring to "the louts and miscreants, most of whom wear hoodies and baseball caps". I would not argue with that statement.

Did anyone read an article in this weeks Daily Mail written by Joan Collins in which she expresses a personal opinion

Former DYNASTY star JOAN COLLINS is furious to see the way the UK is spiralling into chaos, claiming the nation is filled with drunken youths terrorising the streets.

The glamorous 72-year-old's strong political views have impressed members of parliament to the extent they are keen to enlist her into the Conservative Party, as she is unafraid to speak plainly about the plight of the nation.

She fumes, "Recently, I have concluded that London is no longer the 'seat of civilised society'.

"Why do young people consider it cool to be arrogant, swaggering and rude?

"Why do so many people in England seem so cynical and self-centred?

"I've witnessed young, drunken yobs roaming the streets, kicking cars, screaming insults, pushing people and even pushchairs out of their way, attacking each other and then turning on the police when they tried to maintain order."

Well perhaps not in the "semi rural" sleepy hollow of Marple after all we only have about 20.000 registered !!!!


Still I think she has a point.

Rachael was enquiring about the St Johns Ambulance Cadets.

Well they meet every Wednesday between 7-8.30 pm at Barrack Hill. Thats the Romiley and Bredbury Group

I am a 14 year old lad, i do wear tracksuit bottoms, i do sometimes wear a baseball cap, and i do wear hoodies but that does not make me a yob , i also do go around marple with a few mates but does that make me a bad person?  i am really offended by your comment "fed up" if you are so insulted by teenagers walking around in groups wearing tracksuit bottoms hoodies and baseball caps why dont you do something about it and get something for us "yobs" to do '>

[Lisa Oldham]

we all sound as if alot like this behaviours new...

I still remember hanging round marple streets and almost swimming in Brabyns ( well it was a bit cold and grubby) and I def climbed trees - who could resist - and Im the grand old age of 38

There was little to do then for kids of a certain age and there still isnt anything to do for the same age group now...

I think most of us grew up to be reasonable law abiding responsible citizens.  I was never a brownie guide scout or otherwise but I am a trustee of a charity now !

so let them have their time...

having said that yep theres a few more dodgy kids around and certainly less respect for their elders but no doubt most will still grow up eventually to be "normal" grumpy adults  

 '>

[Rachael]

Does anyone have the number for the junior section of St johns junior section, I asked in the Red cross at marple and they dont have a junior section anymore because of rules and regulations with working with children, which is a real shame.

[tina]

It is part of life to live and learn, most children don't have the chances to explore these days because of the bad things what happen in this day and age. Teenagers want independance so by me taking my teenage son to the swimming pool is not cool. Boys like the chance to explore their surroundings, swim in the river, climb a tree. Whatever, boys will be boys.
I might not like the fact my son swims in the river but I know it will be a passing  faze for him, it does not mean he is a bad person just because he has a swim. I would like to think I have brought my son up to respect his olders. If I thought or knew he was being disrespectful to anyone I would be the first one to put him in his place and make sure it didn't happen again. Some teenagers might have their parents wrapped around their little finger and believe their child is an angel, which unfortunatley means that child will grow into adulthood believing that they can get away with anything in life. But that does not mean all kids will turn out like that, as long as they have the right guidance. Their clothing has nothing to do with their behaviour!
I get the feeling that 'fed up' has had a bad experience with some youths around Marple and maybe that is why he/she is being so harsh. But please 'fed up' give our kids a chance to grow, yes there are some out there who do cause trouble, but that will happen in every town or country. If you choose to leave our lovely town because of the youths then obviously that is your choice. I hope you can find peace and happiness somewhere else.

[Rachael]

Dont worry Howard, Fed up is off to Australia soon!!

Still got no answer to my questions the Fed up??

[Howard]

Fed up - I find your blinkered attitudes disturbing and predjudiced and you have completely unrealistic expectations of what children do in the summertime. Or perhaps you are deliberately trying to get a rise out of people and provoke members of this forum.

Marple is a semi-rural community. We are surrounded by countryside and I, for one, would rather children were out in the parks and the countryside in teh fresh air rather than stuck indoors behind their computers and on their mobile phones. This is the reason I signed my children up for beavers/cubs and brownies/guides. They are taught the necessary skills to deal with life. They are taught how to act independly and how to work in a team. When they have these skills you can't then not expect them to use them.

How do you know whether these children wearing the hoodies and caps that you are so fond of criticising aren't members of scouts or guides? Your association of crime with hoodies and caps is as bad as racism - all people who wear hoodies/caps must be criminals  = all black people are...(insert your stereotype here). In fact, I have three hoodies myself and I'm a 37 year-old father with a steady job and a mortgage. I even wear a cap with it sometimes. Am I a thug?

Take a look at your own attitudes and re-assess them before you start casting aspersions on the youth of today.