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Author Topic: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion  (Read 29949 times)

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Dave

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2014, 02:42:38 AM »
40% fall since 2010 would be great is only it were true.... in fact it was under the coalition when spending peeked in 2011 at £176bn, the coalition has managed to reduce this to £168bn, nowhere near the 40%.

Well, you can believe Duke or you can believe the National Audit Office. I think I know which one I believe!
http://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-impact-funding-reductions-local-authorities/

sgk

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2014, 10:29:13 PM »
loads of Social Workers

Safeguarding Adults Service Manager

Social Care Lawyer

Foster carers

@Duke Fame - Baffled as to what your "beef" could be with recruiting social workers (extremely difficult job, working with some of the most vulnerable members of society) or with foster carers (again, difficult and working with vulnerable young people and actually saving the council money when compared to the costs of institutional care homes)

Sources below, take your pick depending on your politics!

Bowden Guy

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2014, 08:21:54 PM »
With the greatest degree of respect, you don't have a clue what happened in "Moor End Road" or whether "abuse" or "murder" took place there.

marplerambler

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2014, 04:48:27 PM »
O Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke. There are times when you absolutely drive me to despair. OK! I hold up my hands and say that I was finding the discussion about the forthcoming election was growing tedious so I quite deliberately threw in some Thatcher-bashing knowing that the red rag would result in blue bull and when it came what it came what fascinating reading and an avalanche of common sense it brought. You churned out reams of intelligent analysis  but at the same time but follow this with such nonsensical conclusions that can only lead me to believe you are a complete fraud roaring with laughter stirring the pot with a huge wooden spoon with the sole intention of creating controversy and reaction on the website.

I suspect that, even though you may deny it, you know better than most that there are both well managed and poorly managed private and public sector workplaces and that shirkers last no longer in the public sector than they do in the private sector.

I admit I chuckle cynically when you boast that you have never paid a train fare in your life or comment about council staff
utter rubbish, the council employ more now than ever before. I agree, we should get rid of most of them  but hey ho

The response to my comment about public transport in Marple was:


Price of milk?



All this seems to suggest to me is that you rarely if ever need to use public transport. I have absolutely no choice and I will never be able to receive a ‘fit to drive’ tick for a driving licence from my doctor even though for most of the time my health is fine. Public transport does not have the relevance of a pint of milk to me: it is a primary factor determining where I live. The day I posted the last email was round about the time of the Scottish referendum. The trains and buses should never have been privatised. I find it infuriating that to travel by public transport from Marple the subsidies and absurdly high train fares are lining the pockets of foreign companies and resented the fact that profits from Stagecoach buses feathering the nest of a fervent Scottish separatist should be fed to Perth Scotland – the profits might just as well have be sent to Perth Australia if Scotland became independent yet the Scots seem to treat us with nothing but disdain rather ironically because a disproportionately large section of the unprofitable British industry supported by earlier socialist governments was north of the border until the “Blessed Margaret” said “Enough!” though ironically North Sea oil allowed Scotland to stand on its own two feet for a few decades.

As for voting for the LibDems at the last election Andrew Stunnell was a hard working MP who had my respect. Marple Libdem councillors were undoubtedly the hardest working in Stockport. I actually believed that the Libdems could, and would have had my support forming the 2015 government as a consequence of common sense and wise voting for the duration of a hung parliament. Dissociation from either Labour or Conservatives and wise voting on individual issues seemed to be the key. The books of a government which felt a responsibility for the social welfare didn’t balance so some cuts in conjunction with tax increases seemed inevitable. For me Andrew Stunnell’s pledge that my vote would keep the Tories out of Marple (and I naively assumed that this pledge also meant prevent Tory control of Westminster) secured my vote.
 
Duke asks:
Why do you think Lib Dems have betrayed you? If you didn't agree with Lib Dem policy then I'd say it's pretty stupid for voting for them.
My reply is that Stunnell’s fundamental pledge was the Libdems would be an alternative and not an ally to the Tory Party. The Labour Party would not be drawn into a pact and the prospect of a hint of political power in return for an alliance was too much for the LibDems to resist. By doing so they are now seeing a pitiful amount of support in by-elections and will pay the price in the 2015 General Election. I voted LibDem because I believed Andrew Stunnell would help keep out the Conservatives and because I agreed with the very promises which were ditched in return for LibDem Ministerial posts.

Duke is particularly astute to pick out in his observation that in my statement there is;


 nothing to suggest you agree with any Labour policy?
You are right is recognising that I saw nothing particularly inspiring in the Labour Party: that is exactly why I was so unhappy with Andrew Stunnell’s involvement in uniting with the Conservative Party and until that point had seem them as a good long-term bet.

Simone says

I am continually surprised when in an election taking place in 2015 people refer to Thatcher and Wilson people that have been out office for decades.

I am also amazed that somebody would even consider voting for a party that they know just can't win. What really is the point in that.

The Labour Party is barely recognisable thirty years on but I still see exactly the same old Tories: the divide between rich and poor continues to rise. As for voting for a party which can’t win in Marple, the point is that I have a right to vote in a democratic election which is denied to billions elsewhere in the world so I intend to exercise that right even if it is a vote of protest which serves only to reduce the majority of the winning candidate.

As for the vacancies for Council workers not being necessary, Duke you really should be ashamed of yourself.
14-19 coordinator - a job that seems to be doing what parents should be doing.

Conservation Management Trainee -  a trainee in a dept that is a chronic waste of time and the whole lot should be sacked

2 x CSS Officer, a job in a department that should be privatised

Libraries trainee - well OK

some dinner lady roles

loads of Social Workers

Safeguarding Adults Service Manager -

Social Care Lawyer -

Foster carers

As for Conservation  Management I am sure that residents or those who are familiar with the Conservations areas at Chadkirk, Marple Bridge, Mill Brow or Moor End may well disagree.

You would be the very first person to scream about cuts in police expenditure but murders and abuse take place whether you live on Middle Hillgate or Moor End Road.
It is a very sad fact of life that we live in violent society in which there is a huge amount of abuse of children, partners and of the elderly. There is a railway crossing at the back of High Lane which I see as an attractive walking route but which Samaritans notices at the site identify as a location for suicide. Social Services is chronically understaffed but life and death go on. The load of Social Workers you refer to could be the difference between life and death for some desperate people who may not share your strength of character or ability to deal with crisis.

If there were to be an appropriate level of social workers, Safeguarding Adults Service Managers and Social Care Lawyers enabling the recognition and solution of problems at an early stage may well result in a reduction in the number of foster carers needed.


Howard

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2014, 11:34:21 AM »
I fully understand it now Duke.

I've solved it all.

I now know how you have arrived at your political standpoint and it is perfectly understandable.

When you were at uni you were originally a member of the Labour party and you didn't get any girls, so you switched to Conservative and you started to have success but once you moved to Liberal you were fighting them off.

After you left uni you fell in love with the local conservation officer but she didn't reciprocate, as I say its all perfectly understandable.

@simonesaffron I wish there was a LOL button. Instead I'll give you a  ;D
Howard

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2014, 11:19:02 AM »
I fully understand it now Duke.

I've solved it all.

I now know how you have arrived at your political standpoint and it is perfectly understandable.

When you were at uni you were originally a member of the Labour party and you didn't get any girls, so you switched to Conservative and you started to have success but once you moved to Liberal you were fighting them off.

After you left uni you fell in love with the local conservation officer but she didn't reciprocate, as I say its all perfectly understandable.


I was member of all three at the same time, I was a reet floosy.

simonesaffron

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2014, 10:54:43 AM »
I fully understand it now Duke.

I've solved it all.

I now know how you have arrived at your political standpoint and it is perfectly understandable.

When you were at uni you were originally a member of the Labour party and you didn't get any girls, so you switched to Conservative and you started to have success but once you moved to Liberal you were fighting them off.

After you left uni you fell in love with the local conservation officer but she didn't reciprocate, as I say its all perfectly understandable.

Duke Fame

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2014, 09:23:37 AM »
Let us look once again Duke, at another of your many attempts to mislead by assertion and bluster.

There are currently a plethora of 32 jobs being advertised by Stockport Council.

Of these 32, 19 are in education. Most of these advertised jobs in education require qualifications (we expect our teachers and Head teachers to be qualified) and therefore we must assume that despite another of your assertions that applicants for these jobs did try hard at school.  There are jobs within this plethora such as school caretaker, where there is probably no academia required, but I would suggest that other qualifications are needed  for this role and that it is a necessary and honest occupation and that such a job makes a contribution to the economy that you are so enamoured of.

Another four of the thirty-two jobs are for Social Workers. No doubt Duke that you don't even agree with their existence, but many of us do. In fact I am sure that it will come as a shock to you but many of us ( it isn't just DAVE) disagree with many of your assertions. My point again is that Social Workers have to have qualifications/experience  and again it is a necessary and honest occupation.

Another vacancy is for a lawyer,  again I expect any presented applicants will have tried hard at school and will need qualifications.

Libraries Assistant, Dinner Ladies, your point is what exactly?

Foster Carers? It is well known that there is an ongoing national shortage, again your objection is exactly what? What would you prefer that children looked after by the council do? Perhaps you would prefer that they slept in the park.

I also disagree that conservationists should be scrapped.

My point was in response to Mr Rambler who said you could not get an unskilled job. The council have some available, 3 days before Christmas. Of course, not all are unskilled but they are there.

I can't see the point of a huge Conservationist dept in the council. I've dealt with them in the last year whilst arranging to re-brand a shop. The poor shop-owner was left with his shop finished in primer for 2 months because the conservation dept could not decide which shade of Purple was acceptable. The conservation dept gave me a tour around Stockport telling me what shop's were acceptable, I pointed out that these shops were all vacant and concluded that the conservation dept seemed happy to have a ghost town of a town centre which was dying on it's proverbial as long as it dies in a conservation colour. Totally pathetic. I'd suggest getting rid and just paying an outside firm for the odd bit of consultancy if needed.

So in all, not much common ground there, at least we can agree on that.

You say that you vote Libdem, I can't for the life of me see why. If they have any political nouse, they'll jump on this site and disown you forthwith. Your views and theirs seem poles apart. From what I have read of your postings(never boring but often inaccurate) you politics seems to be based on nothing more nor less than a personal and vitriolic hatred for Ed Balls and Gordon Brown.

If Ukip's politics are the politics of anger then perhaps Duke's are the politics of Hatred. Hatred for Balls and Brown and for anybody that didn't try hard at school.

Simone, I'm not a hater. I do dislike liars and hypocrites and your identification of Brown & Balls in that bracket is about fair in my opinion.

I've voted Lib dem, I've voted Tory and I've even voted Labour. I've been a member of all three parties when at uni (mainly as a way to get girls) as well as the young Fabians when I was young and naive.

My politics are more aligned with Orange book liberals, small state and individual responsibility and all that. I feel the current coalition have done as good a a job as they could given the circumstances and would vote to keep govt as it is for another 5 years.

I certainly don't agree enough with one particular party in order to join them and find those who support parties like I would a football team simply weird.

simonesaffron

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2014, 08:01:25 AM »
Let us look once again Duke, at another of your many attempts to mislead by assertion and bluster.

There are currently a plethora of 32 jobs being advertised by Stockport Council.

Of these 32, 19 are in education. Most of these advertised jobs in education require qualifications (we expect our teachers and Head teachers to be qualified) and therefore we must assume that despite another of your assertions that applicants for these jobs did try hard at school.  There are jobs within this plethora such as school caretaker, where there is probably no academia required, but I would suggest that other qualifications are needed  for this role and that it is a necessary and honest occupation and that such a job makes a contribution to the economy that you are so enamoured of.

Another four of the thirty-two jobs are for Social Workers. No doubt Duke that you don't even agree with their existence, but many of us do. In fact I am sure that it will come as a shock to you but many of us ( it isn't just DAVE) disagree with many of your assertions. My point again is that Social Workers have to have qualifications/experience  and again it is a necessary and honest occupation.

Another vacancy is for a lawyer,  again I expect any presented applicants will have tried hard at school and will need qualifications.

Libraries Assistant, Dinner Ladies, your point is what exactly?

Foster Carers? It is well known that there is an ongoing national shortage, again your objection is exactly what? What would you prefer that children looked after by the council do? Perhaps you would prefer that they slept in the park.

I also disagree that conservationists should be scrapped.

So in all, not much common ground there, at least we can agree on that.

You say that you vote Libdem, I can't for the life of me see why. If they have any political nouse, they'll jump on this site and disown you forthwith. Your views and theirs seem poles apart. From what I have read of your postings(never boring but often inaccurate) you politics seems to be based on nothing more nor less than a personal and vitriolic hatred for Ed Balls and Gordon Brown.

If Ukip's politics are the politics of anger then perhaps Duke's are the politics of Hatred. Hatred for Balls and Brown and for anybody that didn't try hard at school.   

Duke Fame

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2014, 12:52:15 AM »
Slightly off-topic but, historically, Marple and district did have coal mines, the product of which powered the local mills until the coming of the railways when cheaper coal was available from further afield. In fact the last one, albeit a very small one-man band, was still in production in the early 1980s according to a report I read in one of the local papers at the time. Marple coal was said to be of very good quality

More about it here: http://www.marplelocalhistorysociety.org.uk/2012-publications/industrial-history-of-marple/143-coal-mining-in-marple-and-mellor.html

I think Mr rambler may have been exagerating the impact on the unemployed numbers with the Thatcherite attack on Marple's coal industry

My login is Henrietta

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2014, 12:11:32 AM »
Admittedly I haven't been around for too long, but, I can't ever remember coal mining being a staple industry of Marple.

Slightly off-topic but, historically, Marple and district did have coal mines, the product of which powered the local mills until the coming of the railways when cheaper coal was available from further afield. In fact the last one, albeit a very small one-man band, was still in production in the early 1980s according to a report I read in one of the local papers at the time. Marple coal was said to be of very good quality
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

Duke Fame

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2014, 07:25:21 PM »
Government funding for local government has fallen by around 40% in real terms since 2010 alone.  But of course, on Planet Duke there's no inflation is there!   
 
As for his replies about the jobs, it's just the usual Dukey waffle and bluster.

Dave, do you always talk in the 3rd person? It always appears you are snitching behind people's back instead of addressing them face to face. It does not reflect well on you.

The point on the jobs was that there seems to be plenty unskilled jobs available within the local authority, the comments on jobs were just to add a bit of colour.

40% fall since 2010 would be great is only it were true. Money was thrown at favoured local authorities by the last govt with very little effectiveness, in fact it was under the coalition when spending peeked in 2011 at £176bn, the coalition has managed to reduce this to £168bn, nowhere near the 40%. More cuts are needed, on hte whole, local authorities have coped well but some like Labour led manchester have show utter incompetence in prioritising cuts and have cut front line services whilst spending £1/2m on an Alicia Keys concerts for council staff and B list celebs.

Dave

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2014, 06:14:50 PM »
although there have been cuts in local authorities, the funding is still at 2007 levels

Government funding for local government has fallen by around 40% in real terms since 2010 alone.  But of course, on Planet Duke there's no inflation is there!   
 
As for his replies about the jobs, it's just the usual Dukey waffle and bluster. 

Duke Fame

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2014, 05:02:05 PM »
Duke,

I've just had a look at Stockport Councils plethora of jobs, I know, I should go out more. With two or three exceptions they are all in education: Head teachers, Deputy Head teachers, teachers, teaching assistant. Are you saying that the council is creating these jobs unnecessarily. Surely an individual school knows whether it needs a Head Teacher or not. These schools have boards of governors, these governors aren't fools are they?

What are you saying? That these jobs don't really exist. Are you saying that they don't really need a Head Teacher at Vernon Park School, that they don't need a caretaker at Our Lady's Catholic Primary or that they don't really need two teachers at Westmorland Primary? That they are just pretending that they do for reasons best known to themselves.

Or are you saying that these posts are really already filled and that the Council is just duplicating them to create employment and that when the new Head arrives at Vernon Park the old one will still be in post but nobody will actually notice ?

14-19 coordinator - a job that seems to be doing what parents should be doing.

Conservation Management Trainee -  a trainee in a dept that is a chronic waste of time and the whole lot should be sacked

2 x CSS Officer, a job in a department that should be privatised

Libraries trainee - well OK

some dinner lady roles

loads of Social Workers

Safeguarding Adults Service Manager -

Social Care Lawyer -

Foster carers


simonesaffron

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Re: Hazel Grove - General Political Discussion
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2014, 04:33:38 PM »
Duke,

I've just had a look at Stockport Councils plethora of jobs, I know, I should go out more. With two or three exceptions they are all in education: Head teachers, Deputy Head teachers, teachers, teaching assistant. Are you saying that the council is creating these jobs unnecessarily. Surely an individual school knows whether it needs a Head Teacher or not. These schools have boards of governors, these governors aren't fools are they?

What are you saying? That these jobs don't really exist. Are you saying that they don't really need a Head Teacher at Vernon Park School, that they don't need a caretaker at Our Lady's Catholic Primary or that they don't really need two teachers at Westmorland Primary? That they are just pretending that they do for reasons best known to themselves.

Or are you saying that these posts are really already filled and that the Council is just duplicating them to create employment and that when the new Head arrives at Vernon Park the old one will still be in post but nobody will actually notice ?