ASDA to snap up the Chadwick Street site ?

[simonesaffron]

Furthermore, I don't really mind where they put the ASDA or whatever it turns out to be.

To me both those sights are problematic. In my opinion if they put it on Trinity Street it has the potential to be an absolute traffic disaster. If they put it on Hibbert Lane it has the potential to damage the Town Centre and in 3/4 years time I can see it being joined by a group of other retailers. So in effect we will have an out of town shopping centre just like the one they have at the Fort in Cheetham Hill or Ashton or LLandudno or a thousand other places. Only it won't really be an "out of town" one because it'll be 300 metres from the town centre. The only good thing is we get the College out of it. But I don't really want to live in Cheetham Hill, I mean I'm sure the people are lovely and they've got some nice pubs and restaurants but I prefer Marple.       

[simonesaffron]

They do have land banks of course. What about the small matter of developing the College Dave - why would they do that ? 

[Dave]

It's not altruism, Simone, and neither is it philanthropy.   Supermarkets are well known for hoarding land - they call them 'land banks'.  They do it for all sorts of reasons, but especially for keeping the competition out.  If they decide that by buying the land and sitting tight they could end up getting planning consent after all, I wouldn't put it past them. 

[simonesaffron]

ASDA might do exactly as you say Dave. Give the College the money then wait for years. After all they are well known for their acts of altruism and philanthropy.

[simonesaffron]

 How many though have a track record of doing so when there is already a "superior" site in the same town and there is only room for one supermarket. It would be interesting to see what ASDA'S case actually is.       

Asda claim that the site is not suitable for its plans. So according to them there is not an alternate site. Just because the council claim there is one doesn't make it suitable.

That's quite right and conversely just because ASDA claim Trinity Street is not suitable that does not make it so either. As Mandy Rice Davies said ..."they would say that wouldn't they". 

[amazon]

Very interesting indeed!  Simone makes a key point:

One thing is for sure no retail "client" is going to sign up for Trinity Street whilst ASDA's situation in Marple is unresolved. 

...and that point is endorsed by the council's own consultants Hollis Vincent.

If Asda decide they are not interested in the Chadwick Street site, then they could possibly adopt a 'dog in a manger' strategy:  acquire Hibbert lane, thus enabling the college to proceed with its rebuild at Buxton Lane.   Sit on it until Kirkland give up trying to find a supermarket to take on Chadwick Street, and sell it off for another use - the council listed a whole range of possible uses when they originally put the site on the market:







A1     Shops
A2     Financial and Professional Services
A3     Restaurants and Cafes
A4     Drinking Establishments
A5     Hot Food Take Away
B1     Business
D1     Non Residential Institution
D2     Assembly and Leisure
C1     Hotel
C2     Residential Institution
C3     Dwelling Houses
Some types of Sui Generis use e.g. Night Club, Casino 

Once Chadwick Street is developed as  a casino or night club  , Asda re-submit the planning application, which now passes the sequential test because there is no suitable and available town centre site.  Job done.......

Bet MIA are printing the banners already . No CASINO for Marple .

[Dave]

Very interesting indeed!  Simone makes a key point:

One thing is for sure no retail "client" is going to sign up for Trinity Street whilst ASDA's situation in Marple is unresolved. 

...and that point is endorsed by the council's own consultants Hollis Vincent.

If Asda decide they are not interested in the Chadwick Street site, then they could possibly adopt a 'dog in a manger' strategy:  acquire Hibbert lane, thus enabling the college to proceed with its rebuild at Buxton Lane.   Sit on it until Kirkland give up trying to find a supermarket to take on Chadwick Street, and sell it off for another use - the council listed a whole range of possible uses when they originally put the site on the market:

A1     Shops
A2     Financial and Professional Services
A3     Restaurants and Cafes
A4     Drinking Establishments
A5     Hot Food Take Away
B1     Business
D1     Non Residential Institution
D2     Assembly and Leisure
C1     Hotel
C2     Residential Institution
C3     Dwelling Houses
Some types of Sui Generis use e.g. Night Club, Casino 

Once Chadwick Street is developed as  a casino or night club  , Asda re-submit the planning application, which now passes the sequential test because there is no suitable and available town centre site.  Job done.......

[JMC]

 How many though have a track record of doing so when there is already a "superior" site in the same town and there is only room for one supermarket. It would be interesting to see what ASDA'S case actually is.       

Asda claim that the site is not suitable for its plans. So according to them there is not an alternate site. Just because the council claim there is one doesn't make it suitable.

[JMC]

Do you think if I were marks and spencer or waitrose or even booths .that wanted to build on the ridge .they would have been any objections .have MIA just this obsession with ASDA .

I personally don't think they would object to the 3 you mentioned. I think this is why some are OK about Kirkland (because it is rumoured to be a 'high end' retailer, much to the disgust of some nearby shops and residents who thought MIA were against any supermarket as it would kill local shops/traffic etc; the very same issues they are up in arms about just along the road at Hibbert Lane. Miss M vocally was against Asda in particular as are several other members. On their facebook page they often post about the dubious ethics of Walmart.

[simonesaffron]

If ASDA's application is turned down by SMBC and that now seems inevitable. ASDA could appeal or they could turn their attention to Trinity Street. Or they could appeal, lose the appeal and stil turn their attention to Trinity Street. One thing is for sure no retail "client" is going to sign up for Trinity Street whilst ASDA's situation in Marple is unresolved. 

Supermarkets have been turned down before and still won on Appeal. Indeed they have a track record of doing so. How many though have a track record of doing so when there is already a "superior" site in the same town and there is only room for one supermarket. It would be interesting to see what ASDA'S case actually is.       

[simonesaffron]

I can't see objections from any area.

I am pretty sure segments of MIA would object purely because it is an Asda/'cheap end' store. They are always going on about the ethics of Walmart etc (simelar to what they did about Tesco when they though it was Tesco after HL). Although of course they have already shot themselves in the foot by saying they do not object to a supermarket JUST one on HL. I have a feeling if HL was turned down at appeal and Asda did go for Kirkland then they would object then on grounds of traffic, threat to other small stores etc. Pretty sure Co-op would also object. Although admittedly none of these potential objecters carry much weight.

It was always obvious that Asda would have to go to appeal. They could still win, it has happened in many towns with simelar scenarios. Let's hope they do win.

Do you think if I were marks and spencer or waitrose or even booths .that wanted to build on the ridge .they would have been any objections .have MIA just this obsession with ASDA .

It has been said so many times MIA have no influence and are not even a minor part of any part of the decision making process.

[amazon]

I can't see objections from any area.

I am pretty sure segments of MIA would object purely because it is an Asda/'cheap end' store. They are always going on about the ethics of Walmart etc (simelar to what they did about Tesco when they though it was Tesco after HL). Although of course they have already shot themselves in the foot by saying they do not object to a supermarket JUST one on HL. I have a feeling if HL was turned down at appeal and Asda did go for Kirkland then they would object then on grounds of traffic, threat to other small stores etc. Pretty sure Co-op would also object. Although admittedly none of these potential objecters carry much weight.

It was always obvious that Asda would have to go to appeal. They could still win, it has happened in many towns with simelar scenarios. Let's hope they do win.

Do you think if I were marks and spencer or waitrose or even booths .that wanted to build on the ridge .they would have been any objections .have MIA just this obsession with ASDA .

[JMC]

I can't see objections from any area.

I am pretty sure segments of MIA would object purely because it is an Asda/'cheap end' store. They are always going on about the ethics of Walmart etc (simelar to what they did about Tesco when they though it was Tesco after HL). Although of course they have already shot themselves in the foot by saying they do not object to a supermarket JUST one on HL. I have a feeling if HL was turned down at appeal and Asda did go for Kirkland then they would object then on grounds of traffic, threat to other small stores etc. Pretty sure Co-op would also object. Although admittedly none of these potential objecters carry much weight.

It was always obvious that Asda would have to go to appeal. They could still win, it has happened in many towns with simelar scenarios. Let's hope they do win.

[Dave]

If they developed chadwick street it may be a more expensive build per m2 but asda wouldnt have to gift millions to the college.

The Trinity Street scheme looks expensive to develop but perhaps that could be moderated and as has been pointed out they would have an extra £13MILLION to put towards it which they wouldn't have to use to develop to the College. In fact if I was Mr ASDA it would seem like the obvious solution. It is surely more preferable than fighting a long battle with Marple & SMBC and one which they seem to be losing.

Let's get this clear: ASDA are not planning to give the college anything - they are simply intending (subject to planning permission, of course) to buy the Hibbert Lane site off the college at its commercial valuation for retail use, and then build a supermarket on it.  Speculating on the relative costs of the two sites is a highly specialised business, and way beyond my grasp, but I do know that one of the criteria for retail land valuations, for rent or purchase, is projected turnover, and the Holliss Vincent report puts the Hibbert Lane turnover at 21.6 million in 2017, compared with only 17.4 million for Chadwick Street.  See http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s25234/FINAL%20Marple%20Foodstores%20Report%20-%2022%2001.pdf.

So by that criterion, and also because its gross area is smaller, the valuation of Chadwick should be lower.  On the other hand, construction costs at Chadwick Street will be higher, and of course, there will be no revenue from fuel sales at Chadwick Street (that is not included in the Hollis Vincent figures, btw). 

So it's hard to call - but you can bet that Asda are looking at it, of course! 

[simonesaffron]

There is nothing to stop ASDA turning up on the Trinity Street site. Their own objections to it in the first instance are based on keeping Kirkland out of the competition in relation to the Hibbert Lane Development. If all goes against them with Hibbert Lane they may have a re-think. If they want a foothold in Marple then that site is the ideal opportunity as its half-way there already and ASDA are already in town - so to speak. I can't see objections from any area. Kirkland would be happy to do business with ASDA, the Community would support it,  Marple 6 have already said yes.     

The Trinity Street scheme looks expensive to develop but perhaps that could be moderated and as has been pointed out they would have an extra £13MILLION to put towards it which they wouldn't have to use to develop to the College. In fact if I was Mr ASDA it would seem like the obvious solution. It is surely more preferable than fighting a long battle with Marple & SMBC and one which they seem to be losing.