Klondikes site (Park & Patersons) new housing

[amazon]

The decontamination costs were deemed too high for the redevelopment for industrial use, but obviously houses provide much more return financially.. and make the cost of the recommended remedial work worthwhile.

From what I was told when I worked for British Gas and visited the old Partington laboratories, the decontamination requirements for ex-industrial land to be developed for housing is higher that that for land to be used for industrial/commercial purposes and in certain circumstances (for example, IIRC, redundant gas works) development for housing is forbidden.

                 They built on the gas works   bottom  lower fold no problems .

[My login is Henrietta]

The decontamination costs were deemed too high for the redevelopment for industrial use, but obviously houses provide much more return financially.. and make the cost of the recommended remedial work worthwhile.

From what I was told when I worked for British Gas and visited the old Partington laboratories, the decontamination requirements for ex-industrial land to be developed for housing is higher that that for land to be used for industrial/commercial purposes and in certain circumstances (for example, IIRC, redundant gas works) development for housing is forbidden.

[Miss Marple]

Just received a hard copy of all the documentation concerning Park & Patersons from SMBC its quite a lengthy document but I will report the findings when I have read through it

[bibliospark]

I believe that Park and Patterson made zinc ingots on the site and indeed so vital was deemed their production to industry that they were allowed to work as normal during the 70's three day week! I have no idea how toxic this process was or what legacy it left but when I lived on Cross Lane, across from them, there was often a cloying smokey atmosphere.

[admin]

Miss Marple is still in training for copying and pasting so has passed the following response to me to post on her behalf:

Dear “Miss Marple”, please find my responses to your queries below:

1. Where was the contaminated soil taken too?  The reason I ask is that when I walked past like I do on many occasions the soil was built up in huge piles and there appeared to be no urgency in removing and making the area safe.

Remediation works were undertaken at the development site have been undertaken by Green Remediation on behalf of Morris Homes.  Remediation works were independently overseen and validated by RSK Group PLC.  Contaminated soils have been removed from site to appropriately licensed Landfill site for such wastes with additional waste materials removed by Licensed Specialist Contractors.  Please see attached documentation: Green Remediation Summary of wastes exported for Cross Lane, Marple for volumes and associated waste documentation.

2. Did you not the disclaimer re not growing fruit and veg that a friend of mine was asked to sign before purchasing a property?

Further to discussion with independent Consultants RSK who undertook the Intrusive Site investigation and appraisal of the specified the remediation scheme, based upon the required remediation scheme, there was no specific requirement for such a disclaimer to be used by Morris Homes, as the implemented remediation scheme ensures that the site is suitable for its designated use that of residential with gardens.  It is highly likely that Morris Homes insert such a clause into all their contracts where brownfield sites have been redeveloped.  

3.What are the toxic readings now?

The process of site investigation and remediation of brownfield sites in the UK for development sites is undertaken in accordance with the requirements of Planning Policy Statement 23 Annex 2.  The requirements of this PPS document require developer to develop sites suitable for their intended end use.  The Park and Patterson site has been subject to extensive site investigation and subsequent remediation work.  The Remediation Options Appraisal and Strategy developed by RSK for the site, presents detailed quantitative risk assessments undertaken using the Contaminated Land Exposure assessment model (CLEA) and the Risk Based Corrective Action RBCA with regard too contamination at the site to arrive at specific remediation targets for the site to ensure that any risks posed at the search site  are remediation to target values which do not pose a risk to human health or controlled waters.

4. Is it true as a report I had seen stated that each house was to stand on it's own membrane to prevent toxins or contamination seeping into the footings?

As part of the remediation strategy specified for the site each property has ground gas membrane, the installation of each membrane is being installed is being independently validated by RSK.  The installation of a membrane in each property is as a precautionary measure to prevent the ingress of any CO2 gases in any property - CO2 naturally occurs in made ground.  The installation of this membrane is not to “prevent toxins or contamination seeping into the footings” as metal contamination has been appropriately mitigated through the remediation scheme.

5. A builder who is a friend of mine has stated that no matter what is done now the toxins and contamination will rise to the surface over time.  What contingency plans are in place ie how often do you intend to monitor the site once the development is completed?

The remediation scheme implemented and validated at the site ensures that site specific clean up values derived through the detailed quantitative risk assessment for the site have been attained, ensuring that the site is suitable for the residential end use at the site.  Toxins and contamination will not rise to the surface over time, as the implemented remediation scheme has removed the pollutant linkage between identified contaminants remaining beneath structures and gardens and future occupiers of the residential units.

6. What are the water readings of the surface water, which is running into the stream on Middlewood Way?

I am unable to comment further with regard to the water quality of the stream on Middlewood Way as the regulation of controlled waters (i.e. surface waters and groundwaters) is regulated by the Environment Agency.

[admin]

Miss Marple has asked me to post the following questions, which, after chasing for some time, she has been promised answers to by the end of the week from the Environmental Health Officer (Contaminated Land) at SMBC:

(You really must learn to copy and paste Miss Marple   )

Thanks for getting  back to me I hope that you have managed to read all of the complex document and are now able to answer a few questions that are of concern to me and my family members who live near the site:

1. Where was the contaminated soil taken too?
The reason I ask is that when I walked past like I do on many occasions the soil was built up in huge piles and there appeared to be no urgency in removing and making the area safe.

2. Did you not the disclaimer re not growing fruit and veg that a friend of mine was asked to sign before purchasing a property.
 
3.What are the toxic readings now?

4. Is it true as a report I had seen stated that each house was to stand on it's own membrane to prevent toxins or contamination seeping into the footings?

5. A builder who is a friend of mine has stated that no matter what is done now the toxins and contamination will rise to the surface over time. What contingency plans are in place ie how often do you intend to monitor the site once the development is completed?

6. What are the water readings of the surface water which is running into the stream on Middlewood Way?
I think I mentioned that I have taken samples for independently testing.

Can you get back to me with these answers, because as you are aware I have a continued interest in the site due to my father and many of his work mates having premature death, long standing ailments and a high
number of cancer related illnesses.

[Rachael]

Ah right,   Thanks Tricky 

[Tricky]

Solicitor would find it in the searches..

[Rachael]

Im not clued up on legalities , but reading this topic ( with interest )  If the purchaser of the new houses signs a disclaimer , and then goes on to sell the property , do they not have to tell the second buyer  ,  and if they dont have to , if say in the future the second owner became ill,  does the person have a claim on the original buyer,  or the builder ?

Im sorry if that sounds a really thick question ?

[Tricky]

I have to say there's a lot of information there.. and if you find them.. some great old maps too !

Also, just for the record.. membrane systems are not uncommon in reclaimed land I believe.


The decontamination costs were deemed too high for the redevelopment for industrial use, but obviously houses provide much more return financially.. and make the cost of the recommended remedial work worthwhile.

[Tricky]

Links to relevant documents

these are early applications and contain some documents like ground toxicology reports etc..
http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC022418

http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC024614



and the latest one..

http://planning.stockport.gov.uk/PlanningData/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=24793

and direct link to the documents..
http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC024614

[marveld]

Admin said:

This topic started off with a suggestion that there is a "disclaimer" that house purchasers would have to sign to say that they won't grow fruit and veg on the site. Is this true?

Miss Marple said:

Hi yes it is true about fruit and veg I have just come off the phone after a very lengthy conversation with SMBC environmental  health who have comfirmed that they are pleased Morris the builders have produced this disclaimer.  Each house is to have its own membrane to stop contamination.

A question for Miss Marple - from your reply to Admin, I am led to believe purchasers need to sign a disclaimer saying they won't grow fruit and veg. Is this correct? I spoke to a sales representative at the site today and he told me there were no restrictions for buyers. He told me that he was selling houses in Lymn (Cheshire) not long ago that had restrictions due to past farming, but nothing applied in Marple. Please note I'm not enquiring about a membrane, it's the disclaimer!

[admin]

The SMBC Planning Database is still off-line, so I've emailed to enquire when it will be available again. In the meantime I've found a couple of reports that may be of interest t oanyone prepared to flog through them:

http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=20790

http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=20519

[Miss Marple]

I was also informed by environmental health that the most vulnerable group is a female children aged 6 who would have to eat the soil 365 days of the year for it to be a hazard.     I don't know what breathing, playing in the garden or none  fruit bearing trees releasing toxins into the atmosphere would cause      The chap from the environmental health** was also helpful in relation to my late father and his colleagues.  He explained that the poor grade of metal that was smelted on the site would have been carcinogenic and he was not surprised to hear of past Park & Paterson employees poor heath and early deaths.   AM I ON A PARALLEL UNIVERSE !!!!

** Stockport Council's Environmental Team Manager has asked for the following disclaimer to be added to this post: Any comments posted on this site are not the opinion of Stockport MBC unless they are officially posted by the Council and we do not accept any responsibility for the comments posted by third parties.’
Admin - 5 July 2011

[Rachael]

Hi yes it is true about fruit and veg I have just  come off the phone after a very lengthy conversation with SMBC environmental  health who have comfirmed that they are pleased Morris the builders have produced this disclaimer.  Each house is to have its own membrane to stop contamination 

thats rather worrying isnt it .