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Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 652092 times)

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Belly

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #278 on: July 22, 2011, 10:14:52 PM »
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....
Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

Belle Star

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #277 on: July 22, 2011, 10:12:02 PM »
Having followed this debate with great interest, I contacted Miss Marple to offer my support to Marple In Action and was invited to a meeting which took place earlier today. As no-one else has updated the forum, I thought I'd just let everyone know what was discussed at the meeting and what will be happening going forward.

A representative of Co-op head office was present, along with the Marple store manager, 3 local councillors and a cross section of traders and concerned residents.

There is enough evidence to suggest that two of the large supermarkets are definitely in talks with the college. The Director of Finance and Business of the college sent a fax to MM stating "the college anticipate making a statement next week to the press and will contact you accordingly".

It was decided at this stage to focus on raising awareness within the community as we all feel that not enough people are aware of the proposals. We are arranging a leaflet-drop for those areas which we feel will be most affected by the arrival of a large supermarket in Hibbert Lane.

There is an open Area Committee meeting next Wednesday where local councillors will be available to answer questions from the public. Andrew Stunell, our local MP, will also be there and we feel that this will be an invaluable opportunity to put our questions/objections to all our local representatives. The meeting will be held in Marple Library at 6pm on Wednesday the 27th and we would like as many people to attend as possible.

It was also discussed that a dedicated "campaign" webpage would be created, accessed via this website. Admin has kindly agreed this and more details will follow.

Marple In Action will be holding another meeting in a fortnight (details to follow). ANYBODY who would like to attend and show their support is welcome. Spread the word!!!

Look forward to seeing you all there

marple_syrup

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #276 on: July 22, 2011, 08:00:14 PM »
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Taurus

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #275 on: July 22, 2011, 06:29:37 PM »
Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #274 on: July 22, 2011, 06:13:19 PM »
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #273 on: July 22, 2011, 05:40:00 PM »
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   

I think there is a danger of 2nd guessing the co-op’s intentions. I can’t see  the shop being an attractive proposition to any business really. Yes it’s the right size to be a Tesco metro but without parking & with a big store on it’s doorstep, it makes little sense. It’s also too big for taking an advantage on Sunday opening (although the floor space could be re-designed to be smaller). I can see it being a big co-op pharmacy or even FuneralCare.
You are right though, Tesco will play the competition card. Co-op’s new stranglehold in Marple is exactly what will be used in favour of a Tesco. I must say, I am at a loss as to what food shopping you can’t do at the Co-op or pick up in the Marple Precinct.  I know the choice of fresh olives may be a bit limited at 9.30 at night but is it really that important?
I admit to using Morrisons or Aldi but it’s as a result of going past when going elsewhere than actually making a special trip out of marple.

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #272 on: July 22, 2011, 05:11:19 PM »
Quote from: Duke Fame
Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

Quote from: Duke Fame
If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!
Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.
Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:
www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>
In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.
Kind regards

Hi Duke,

It's the equivalent of an "out of office" reply.  It's the stock response automatically initially returned by Tesco via that site.  If you look a bit further you'll see that Tesco are obliged to respond, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco : "Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.".

And if you take a look further, you'll see they have responded to some other FOI requests (same URL), particularly the ones where people have been concerned about Crucible and its privacy implications.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.

I realised that, it just tickled me

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #271 on: July 22, 2011, 05:10:27 PM »
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments

Any developmennts from the messages Tesco left you?

ericthehamster

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #270 on: July 22, 2011, 03:00:35 PM »
Can I just "like" Marple_Syrup's measured comments?

I am really against Tescos moving in for various reasons (I haven't shopped with them for ages, and recommend people read "Shopped" by Joanna Blythman).

I also agree competition isn't necessarily a bad thing (and am disappointed to note what the Co-op have been doing with the Hanbury's store, I am a big supporter of the Co-op generally). However, it isn't fair competition when you are talking about Tescos and the other Big Boys. Whilst it might be appropriate to have another supermarket in the current Hanbury's location (and with that smaller footprint), a large Supermarket slightly removed from the small town centre is just out of keeping with the size and aspect of Marple. I am not sure Hibbert Lane could take the extra traffic (and it wouldn't be just locals shopping there - a large Tescos is likely to attract shoppers from quite a large catchment).

I'm not sure if anyone has already posted this (so apologies for the repetition) - this is a good source of information about Tescos generally, and fighting their unfair practices:

http://www.tescopoly.org/

BTW - one of the original commenters suggested that the cinema, library and swimming pool were hardly used? As a regular user of all three, I can refute that suggestion!  :)

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #269 on: July 22, 2011, 02:47:46 PM »
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments

marple_syrup

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #268 on: July 22, 2011, 11:01:05 AM »
Apologies Dave, I think I was writing as you posted!

I think your argument is flawed, on the basis that Handforth Dean and Cheadle Royal, whatever minor traffic issues have been generated as a result of putting breaks in the A34, have had no massive impact on a local residential population. Again, the existence of such a major dual carriageway nearby makes it completely incomparable to the effect this would have on Marple.

While I agree that Marple traffic would remain in Marple, you have completely and totally disregarded the effect of people coming into Marple to use a major supermarket.  Bredbury can cope, as it is immediately next to the M60, but should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
This would, irrespective of opening hours, primarily be at rush hour.
Logically, at present, with Marple mainly a residential area, the flow of traffic is outbound from 7-10am, and inwards from 4-6pm.  Build a major supermarket in Marple, and all that traffic backing up Bents Lane and down Marple Road is no longer filtering off... They (and more besides) are with you all the way into Marple.  That is the time you want traffic to subside, when you're on the way home from a long day as opposed to when you're going shopping, when it's less of a concern.

I think it's naive and illogical to realistically suggest that traffic congestion would improve in the area by introducing a massive supermarket, drawing  wide catchment from surrounding areas, that was previously absent.

marple_syrup

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #267 on: July 22, 2011, 10:36:00 AM »
I've spent the last couple of days reading through this topic and thought I'd air my views!  I registered some time ago but generally prefer to read and digest what is being said.

My observations:
The site is probably worth close to the values estimated in previous posts.  I know the site at the old St Thomas Hospital in Stockport was up over £12m some time ago, and that was with listed buildings on it and a lot of work needing to be done; the site in Marple would be more desirable in my opinion in terms of both housing (desirable area) and also retail due to the lack of immediate competition in the area as far as Hazel Grove and Bredbury.
I have some knowledge of College 'mergers' and understand that as an organisation Cheadle and Marple will need to alleviate debts and raise funds, and don't doubt that the retail sale is the most lucrative way of achieving this.  Part of the problem is that the organisation's longer term goals may involve liquidation of the saleable assets and redirection of some operations to another campus, ie Cheadle.  I think that this is possible over time, and reduction in the Student population in Marple (whatever you think of them!) will be detrimental to local trading.
The Co-op is not satisfactory as a retailer in the area due to pricing and supplies, however as a company they operate far more ethically than Tesco, irrespective of the Hanbury's policy.  I think the local spirit in Marple remains and the aspirational nature of this forms at least a small part of the pbjection to Tesco moving into the area.  The council have been stung at Portwood by Tesco in terms of their ignorance of planning permissions, and regardless of how well they have imposed a restriction n use of some of the buildings, Marple could not afford Tesco deliberately overbuilding.
Competition is required that the local shops are failing to deliver, and this seems to be as a result of Council policy (ie. Paid car parking, high rates etc).  The pedestrianised area has been dying for some time, with weekends in particular seeming empty.  The prevalence of 'pound shops' down Market Street does nothing to retain the heritage or pull of the area.
The area is by no means 'a large town'. Stockport is a large town, with a vast differential in population and geography.  Marple is a small town or large village at best, and simply the infrastructure in Marple, regardless of the strengthening on Dan Bank, simply does not lend itself to a large supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  I note that Glossop has been quoted as an example of the large supermarket working in conjunction with local shops to good effect - this is largely due to the number of other shops on the retail park that draw in a wider catchment due to their specialist nature and size, and Marple cannot support such a development meaning that the supermarket proposal on Hibbert Lane would be standalone.  It is also noteworthy that the traffic in Glossop, for a variety of reasons, backs up beyond the roundabout at Hattersley on a daily basis and the area has been crying out for a bypass for a long time.  I for one already bemoan traffic in and out of the area and would not welcome an increase; I don't see any real opportunity to alleviate traffic congestion in Marple from the current situation, never mind the state it will be in should a large supermarket open. 

I have no nostalgia as such for the area having only lived here the past decade, and (apologies to MBF!) no great affiliation to the local shops, however I still strongly oppose the development of the site as a large supermarket for congestion reasons, despite 24hr opening etc it is clear that the large supermarkets at Bredbury, Stockport, Hyde, Hazel Grove etc. are all supplied by good transport links, close to motorway networks or major A roads.  The Coop ha developed it's monopoly a despite it's inadequacies it is appropriately sized for the residency of Marple in terms of footfall in the store, and I think with a more aggressive strategy and some breaks from the council the local shops could offer better competition than is currently the case.

I understand that change is upon us, that the era is of large supermarkets monopolising the local economy, however I feel quite simply that Marple geographically does not lend itself at all to this strategy, and that any support garnered for the proposal on the basis on inadequacies in local provision can be addressed in other ways.

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #266 on: July 22, 2011, 10:08:17 AM »
I know I'm not alone having home deliveries as there is always tesco, asda, and sainsbuy van's driving around Marple at different times everyday. So you all dont shop local for your main shop and the shops in Marple have not closed down beacause of it.

I think Tina is making a key point here.  Nowadays, people tend to do a big (weekly?) supermarket shop (or order online), and I'll lay a bet that a lot of us do this away from Marple - at Morrison's or Sainsbury's, for example.  Then we top this up locally as required, at the Co-op and at all the small local shops. 

A new major supermarket in Hibbert Lane would undoubtedly lead to more of us staying in Marple for our main supermarket shop, rather than clogging up the roads in Offerton or Bredbury.    So it could actually have the effect of reducing traffic congestion!

Small shops have continued to survive in Marple, despite the Co-op, and despite the fact that many of us do our main shop elsewhere.  If we all used a new supermarket in Marple instead, the increase in 'footfall' (to use the jargon), could actually benefit local shops.  For example, in Stockport and Wilmslow people park for free in one of the town supermarkets, do some shopping there, and then leave the car where it is and go off to shop for other things at smaller local shops. 

The real problem with huge supermarkets is when they are built away from town centres.  Think of Cheadle Royal or Handforth Dean. 

admin

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #265 on: July 22, 2011, 08:05:30 AM »
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   

Tina

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #264 on: July 22, 2011, 07:54:13 AM »
Tina I totally agree with you and believe me I am fully aware that the coop has a monopoly in Marple  I can honestly say that I am not against anyone for what views they hold. One of the things that should happen is that the coop should allow Hanburys to be sold to another retailer so that there is competition for the coop    I think that it's just the way I come across on the forum that gets peoples backs up and that's strange because  it's a funny old world but I think  you do know me because I think I know you .  Well Memo to self !  Think before you post !  ;)





Miss Marple, I think that is the first rational post you have wrote in a while.
I agree about the old Hanbury's building. It is again sitting empty, which is a shame for Marple.
If you keep your post's rational without getting too emotionally involved then you might get more people on board with your MARPLE IN ACTION. Just because I want another supermarket doesnt mean I am against all of you who dont.
Re me knowing you? I don't know if I do, and if I do I would tell you myself how I feel about this whole topic and any other topic on this forum, I don't hide behind a pseudonym. I am Tina always have been and always will ;)