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Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 651692 times)

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Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #233 on: July 20, 2011, 04:52:26 PM »
We know from previous posts in this long thread that camsfc commissioned a property strategy from Turner and Townsend, who are a very large, reputable multi-national property consultancy.  That document will have been drawn up over many months, and will undoubtedly have included a comparative assessment of a number of options.  The one now being pursued by the college will not have been arrived at without due consideration.  In particular, T&T will have done detailed work on comparative land valuations, assuming various types of planning consent.

Re Duke's point about what happens if a planning application is refused, I suspect that Tesco or Sainsbury's would be seeking to reach some kind of conditional agreement with the college - for example, that any deal would be subject to planning consent acceptable to the purchaser. 

Re Victor's point about the college's 'moral obligation to the community', far from not caring about the community that supports it, the college governors seem to me to be doing their best for us, in seeking to provide a decent learning environment for the next generation.

Victor M

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #232 on: July 20, 2011, 04:35:26 PM »
As an established member of the whole community the college also has a moral obligation to the Marple community, just as they would expect a public outcry if the college closed so they must realise they have an obligation not to sell land, that once belonged to the community, to an organisation that would be a detriment to the area.
The college appears at the moment not to care about the community that supports it, and that is worrying, they don't seem willing, or able, to publicise any of their rationale over their decision to sell the land to a major supermarket.
They don't want, or are unable, to state what all the options were, e.g.
was the Cheadle site looked at?
How much money do they require?
What is their long term objectives for the college?
Just saying they want money for redevelopment is not enough.
The longer they stay quiet on the matter the more devious I think they are, just the timing of all this smells (just when the college closes for their Summer break).

Come on people of Marple UNITE against this proposal, the fight will be long and hard but we can prevail.

Catwoman

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #231 on: July 20, 2011, 04:13:14 PM »
Hi Dave, and thanks for the Welcome.

Re your comments about land values - I'm only saying what I found from High Peak, that land values there for housing use (with pp) are twice as much as retail use - and commenting that this was interesting. It could be that its very different in Marple, but we don't know for sure because there aren't substantiated figures available - I am making enquiries though! You would hope that college would have checked this out, but again we don't know for sure.

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #230 on: July 20, 2011, 04:09:46 PM »
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

As Dave says, the college need to get the best deal they can get. The former government spent too much on various projects and left the economy in the clarts. If the college wants to spend money, it must either sell assets or find a lender fund new buildings. It has surplus assets so that is what they will look to do.

If there is unlikely to be planning permission granted for a supermarket, the land is worth no more than a farmer's field to Tesco. The realistic worry is that whoever buys the plot may well get knocked back for planning. They will then leave it to be a mess until finally the opposition is worn down as anything is better than a wasteland.

This is why I keep saying the opposition has to be logical, valid and without emotion.

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #229 on: July 20, 2011, 02:39:54 PM »
Hi catwoman, and welcome to the forum!

I don't know anything about land valuation (except that it is a complex business!).  However, surely if land for housing was really worth more than retail land, the college would be selling it to a housing developer, not a supermarket!  

And according to this earlier post:
If the land was sold for housing it would raise about £4M, if sold for retail development around £12M would be generated.
....retail land is worth more than housing land.

As for the college's financial position, I know nothing about it, but I doubt whether there has been any 'bad housekeeping'.  The whole of further and higher education is under severe financial pressure because of the governement's current squeeze on spending.  There are waves of staff redundancies, the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) has been scrapped, and there is virtually no capital funding available for major rebuilding projects, even in cases, such as this one, where a new building is obviously needed.  So colleges have to go out and find the cash as best they can.  Camsfc is fortunate in that unlike some other colleges, it does have saleable land which it can dispose of to finance its plans.  

You ask for a 'public consultation', but that is exactly what will happen anyway, once the planning application has been submitted.

Catwoman

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #228 on: July 20, 2011, 02:08:58 PM »
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

Surely we need more affordable housing for young families and retired people in Marple, and this would be an ideal spot, perhaps alongside a community centre which we desperately need, and a health centre. As adjacent land is zoned for housing use by the council surely this would be a more acceptable solution.

In High Peak the council give guidance on land values for different class uses, these are of course approximate, but a helpful indication of what the land would sell for with the relevant planning permission. Land with planning permission for housing sells for more than twice that with retail/leisure permission. I have asked Stockport council, but they do not give these guidelines as land costs vary so widely across the Borough.  BUT it seems strange to me that on land zoned for housing by the council and that could possibly be more valuable for that use, not a single known bid has been received. I suppose the argument is that the land is worth what someone is prepared to pay. So come on all you housing developers lets have some bids.

I agree that we probably do need another supermarket to serve the size of population we have in Marple, but this should be of the right scale and located amongst the other shops. The empty Hanbury’s site would be ideal, or as I hear the Iceland company is up for sale, replace that, or even on the Somerfield (which is now a second Co-op) Texaco site. One of the arguments that the large supermarkets will use is that there is no competition to the Co-op in Marple – and they are right in this respect. If the Co-op could be persuaded to forego their stranglehold on Marple and a suitable sized development in the retail zone could happen then this would be of benefit to households IN MARPLE and would increase footfall for the whole town centre which would benefit the independent shops.

If a larger supermarket is built on Hibbert Lane this will pull in people from outside Marple, causing more congestion on the roads, which no doubt will be enlarged to accommodate the increased traffic flows – pity the poor householders on Hibbert Lane, and what will happen to the value of their property?  It will pull shoppers away from Market Street which will mean the decline of the independent shops there. I’m sure there will be a pedestrian walkway in the proposal, but let’s face it would you walk from Hibbert Lane to Market Street, having loaded up with a weekly shop, especially in winter or if it’s raining – I doubt it. Also consider the effect on the local economy, money spent in local shops gets re-spent in other local shops up to six times, whereas money spent in supermarkets leaves the local economy. I am aware that job creation will be a consideration, but independent shops and businesses as a whole are the biggest employment sector in the UK. Don’t even get me started on how much data supermarkets gather by using clubcards, check out CRUCIBLE database on Google – talk about big brother. You might be interested to know that in under six miles from Marple centre there are approximately 60 supermarkets and convenience stores.

Whilst I understand the College need money, I think we should demand a halt to proceedings until all avenues have been explored and the residents and businesses in Marple have been consulted. It seems to me that the citizens of Marple are suffering for the college’s bad housekeeping.

BE UNDER NO ILLUSION - once the land has been sold to Teso, Sainsbury’s or Waitrose, whether planning permission is refused or not – a supermarket will be built and MARPLE WILL CHANGE FOREVER.  The large supermarkets know the appeal process inside out and there are only so many objections the planning dept can raise and afford to raise (the appeal process costs millions of taxpayers money), so it’s only a matter of time before they finally get the permission to build. Believe me I have seen it happen in other places, and there is plenty of evidence on the Tescopoly website - and for those of who you who think Tesco et al are the friendly shop on the corner – follow the link on this forum to the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary about the supermarket that ate Britain.

Let us band together and call for a public consultation about the use of this land before it’s too late – and a public enquiry into the state of the College’s finances, because it’s that that’s created this situation and they are and should be accountable.

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #227 on: July 20, 2011, 02:00:31 PM »
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.

Don't take it personally, it's great to be passionate but passionate can easily spill over to illogical. You've been involved in a lot of campaigns and I must admit, my first reaction was "here we go again" but hidden beneath the rhetoric, there are some valid concerns. Whoever leads the campaign needs to focus on what is valid rather than simply appear to having an emotional attachment to the past and be against change for the sake of it.

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #226 on: July 20, 2011, 01:21:36 PM »
Hi Mabel I have sent you a personal email not sure if you have noticed it.  Can you contact me cheers !

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #225 on: July 20, 2011, 01:16:20 PM »
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #224 on: July 20, 2011, 01:09:29 PM »
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.

FANTASTIC !

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #223 on: July 20, 2011, 01:08:43 PM »
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.

Hi  many thanks for that it's very useful information !  What a team !!!

Marple Business Forum

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #222 on: July 20, 2011, 01:07:11 PM »
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.

Duke Fame

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #221 on: July 20, 2011, 12:59:03 PM »
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to confirm that the college is not a member of the Business Forum

Miss M, I suspect people have more to do that jump to your demands all day. If the business forum is like the one I am a member of, it is not a full time body but just a vehicle for businesses to meet once a month, raise current issues and try to promote the area for business ends. Even if the college were a member, I'm not sure to what difference it would make to you.

I'm quite supportive of joining up with an organised and responsible strategy to object to a large supermarket in Marple. I would be very concerned to be backing a self-appointed spokesperson who is becoming a reactionary acting on either half-truths, rumour and in some cases imaginary occurances.

Marple Business Forum

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #220 on: July 20, 2011, 12:06:12 PM »
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #219 on: July 20, 2011, 11:53:55 AM »
Hi thanks for that, but can you tell me when the College stopped being a member of the Marple Business Forum