Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: Dave on October 19, 2021, 04:51:19 PM
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I gather that Cllrs Gribbon and Smart, who also happen to be the two nominees to be LibDem parliamentary candidate for Hazel Grove, have written to the Department for Transport lobbying for a rail link to be established between Marple and Stockport. A subject dear to many of our hearts, of course........
I tried to attach a copy of the letter but the forum won't allow it. However, it's not long, and the essence of it is in the final paragraph, which ends: 'We urge the Department for Transport to support the proposal to reinstate the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove Line, Stockport'.
And you can find the bid (if you look hard enough!) among many others on this government website, which lists all the bids to the relevant scheme: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/985354/restoring-your-railway-all-bids.csv/preview.
Can anyone work out the route of this proposed line? And does anyone know where Maple Grove is?
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scrap HS2, reinstate all 198 of them, employ thousands of people across the country, use British Steel. Also create new jobs when they're needing to be run!
no brainer i.m.h.o. and just about the best levelling up we could do!
In March 2020, a bid was made to the Restoring Your Railway fund to get funds for a feasibility study into reinstating the line between Rose Hill Marple, Hazel Grove and Stockport (although incorrectly labelled as Maple Grove in DfT document). The bid was unsuccessful.
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In March 2020, a bid was made to the Restoring Your Railway fund to get funds for a feasibility study into reinstating the line between Rose Hill Marple, Hazel Grove and Stockport..... The bid was unsuccessful.
It's all very confusing, but as far as I can see a ministerial decision is still awaited. Otherwise it would be pretty pointless two councillors sending this letter to the DfT a couple of weeks ago:
Dear Sir
We are writing in regard to the current Restoring Your Railways Idea Fund proposal to reinstate the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove Line, Stockport.
As we understand a decision on this is due shortly, we are writing in order to set out our strong support for this proposal on behalf of the residents we represent.
In particular, we are writing on behalf of 332 local residents who signed our petition in favour of carrying out a feasibility study for a rail link between Stockport and Marple or Rose Hill Station using existing track.
It is a long-standing frustration that Marple, Romiley, Bredbury and Woodley residents have no direct rail link to Stockport, this has caused frequent traffic problems, pollution and inconvenience to thousands of residents who live in this area.
We urge the Department for Transport to support the proposal to reinstate the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove Line, Stockport.
Yours sincerely
Cllr Stephen Gribbon Cllr Lisa Smart
Liberal Democrat Councillor Liberal Democrat Councillor for Bredbury Green & Romiley
for Marple North
As for Hazel Grove being 'incorrectly labelled' as Maple Grove, maybe a DfT bureaucrat in London might be confused about that, but surely our own local councillors wouldn't. Would they...........?
And setting aside that confusion of names, the letter refers to 'reinstating the Rose Hill to Maple Grove line' 'using existing track'. Can anyone make any sense of that?
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It's all very confusing, but as far as I can see a ministerial decision is still awaited. Otherwise it would be pretty pointless two councillors sending this letter to the DfT a couple of weeks ago:
Dear Sir
We are writing in regard to the current Restoring Your Railways Idea Fund proposal to reinstate the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove Line, Stockport.
As we understand a decision on this is due shortly, we are writing in order to set out our strong support for this proposal on behalf of the residents we represent.
In particular, we are writing on behalf of 332 local residents who signed our petition in favour of carrying out a feasibility study for a rail link between Stockport and Marple or Rose Hill Station using existing track.
It is a long-standing frustration that Marple, Romiley, Bredbury and Woodley residents have no direct rail link to Stockport, this has caused frequent traffic problems, pollution and inconvenience to thousands of residents who live in this area.
We urge the Department for Transport to support the proposal to reinstate the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove Line, Stockport.
Yours sincerely
Cllr Stephen Gribbon Cllr Lisa Smart
Liberal Democrat Councillor Liberal Democrat Councillor for Bredbury Green & Romiley
for Marple North
As for Hazel Grove being 'incorrectly labelled' as Maple Grove, maybe a DfT bureaucrat in London might be confused about that, but surely our own local councillors wouldn't. Would they...........?
And setting aside that confusion of names, the letter refers to 'reinstating the Rose Hill to Maple Grove line' 'using existing track'. Can anyone make any sense of that?
So were would this link go
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And setting aside that confusion of names, the letter refers to 'reinstating the Rose Hill to Maple Grove line' 'using existing track'. Can anyone make any sense of that?
No, but seems a lot of effort and cost for a link only from Marple to Stockport... you can't then get to the airport for example from Stockport without going into Piccadilly first.... Lord Beeching has a lot to answer for!
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You couldn't really reinstate the middlewood way to highlane for a connection into Stockport.
It would need to now cross the bypass or skirt along the edge of the golf course and somehow join the main line before you get to the raised section at the rising sun.
Please for the love of any deity don't let them pour more money into the park and ride scam which was built and then sold off for housing.
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In an effort to find out which former railway line was meant by 'the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove line', I dropped an email to Cllr Smart's office, asking where Maple Grove is.
The reply doesn't answer my question, presumably because the councillors don't know either! So you have to ask, why are our councillors asking the government to restore a rail line to a place if they don't know where it is?
However, the reply does include a clue: 'The Rose Hill to Stockport bid has now been included within round 3 of the Ideas Fund under the Ashton to Stockport line. The Councillors will keep you updated with any news.' Which clearly suggests that the plan relates to the Guide Bridge to Stockport line, rather than any route via the Middlewood Way.
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However, the reply does include a clue: 'The Rose Hill to Stockport bid has now been included within round 3 of the Ideas Fund under the Ashton to Stockport line. The Councillors will keep you updated with any news.' Which clearly suggests that the plan relates to the Guide Bridge to Stockport line, rather than any route via the Middlewood Way.
it'd be quicker to walk!
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it'd be quicker to walk!
Hard to imagine any route a train could take to Stockport that would be that quick a direct journey from Marple without it being a direct, mostly underground service (ha ha, like that would ever get built.)
Just even finding a new route would be a major challenge. The clearest route is going to be via High Lane and then connecting up near Hazel Grove, but even Hazel Grove station is 12 mins from Stockport by train currently. Bus is 20 minutes outside rush hour and that's direct. Train would be hard to compete in that respect.
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E-scooter on all the new bike lanes being forced onto us; ... be there in a jiffy and then you've your scooter at the other end because the train won't actually get you to where you need to go
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Hard to imagine any route a train could take to Stockport that would be that quick a direct journey from Marple without it being a direct, mostly underground service (ha ha, like that would ever get built.)
Just even finding a new route would be a major challenge. The clearest route is going to be via High Lane and then connecting up near Hazel Grove, but even Hazel Grove station is 12 mins from Stockport by train currently. Bus is 20 minutes outside rush hour and that's direct. Train would be hard to compete in that respect.
The Bredbury bypass is not being built so this is pie in the sky .
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Assuming, as the reply from Cllr Smart's office suggests, that the plan is connected to another plan to introduce or reinstate a line from Ashton to Stockport, then it won't go anywhere near High Lane or Hazel Grove, that's for sure.
Building a link between the Marple - Piccadilly line and the Stockport -Guide Bridge line at Reddish Vale is a well-worn topic around here - or it was a couple of years ago. I think I may have been a bit of lone voice in advocating it, but I still think it could work, and could provide a reasonably quick rail link between Marple and/ or Rose Hill, Romiley, Bredbury, Brinngton and Stockport, with the added bonus of reintroducing a proper rail service at Reddish South.
A sample timing, derived from the actual times of current trains, works out like this:
Marple/ Rose Hill 08.00
Romiley 08.05
Bredbury 08.08
Brinnington 08.11
Reddish South 08.15
Stockport 08.20
20 minutes from Marple to Stockport (and vice versa) at any time of day. Not bad, IMHO.
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In an effort to find out which former railway line was meant by 'the Rose Hill (Marple) to Maple Grove line', I dropped an email to Cllr Smart's office, asking where Maple Grove is.
The reply doesn't answer my question, presumably because the councillors don't know either! So you have to ask, why are our councillors asking the government to restore a rail line to a place if they don't know where it is?
However, the reply does include a clue: 'The Rose Hill to Stockport bid has now been included within round 3 of the Ideas Fund under the Ashton to Stockport line. The Councillors will keep you updated with any news.' Which clearly suggests that the plan relates to the Guide Bridge to Stockport line, rather than any route via the Middlewood Way.
Good evening
Please bear with me whilst I have limited internet access. The term Maple Grove relates to the name given by the Department of Transport regarding a reinstatement bid for Rose Hill to Stockport. Rather than confusing matters and calling it something else it seems best practise to use the name provided by the DoT.
I hope this clarifies any uncertainty over why the letter had the name Marple Grove in.
Kind regards
Steve
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Assuming, as the reply from Cllr Smart's office suggests, that the plan is connected to another plan to introduce or reinstate a line from Ashton to Stockport, then it won't go anywhere near High Lane or Hazel Grove, that's for sure.
Building a link between the Marple - Piccadilly line and the Stockport -Guide Bridge line at Reddish Vale is a well-worn topic around here - or it was a couple of years ago. I think I may have been a bit of lone voice in advocating it, but I still think it could work, and could provide a reasonably quick rail link between Marple and/ or Rose Hill, Romiley, Bredbury, Brinngton and Stockport, with the added bonus of reintroducing a proper rail service at Reddish South.
A sample timing, derived from the actual times of current trains, works out like this:
Marple/ Rose Hill 08.00
Romiley 08.05
Bredbury 08.08
Brinnington 08.11
Reddish South 08.15
Stockport 08.20
20 minutes from Marple to Stockport (and vice versa) at any time of day. Not bad, IMHO.
still not possible it wont happen .tiviot dale route was ideal in them days years ago .
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Missed you last night ,Commitee meeting online ;)
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Steve Gribbon writes ‘ Rather than confusing matters and calling it something else it seems best practise to use the name provided by the DoT,’ but actually, Steve, re-using a reference to a place which, as far as we can tell, is non-existent, really has ‘confused matters!’
Steve, can you enlighten us: what is the actual route of the railway line that you and Clllr Smart wrote to the DfT about?
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A ludicrous and financially wasteful idea. Trains cannot go everywhere. There is a perfectly good bus service to Stockport which only takes 20 mins. If more people actually got the bus, thete would be fewer cars on the road meaning quicker buses.
I live in Marple and work near Manchester airport. I have never had a problem travelling to Stockport and then a 15 min bus to the airport, and vice versa.
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Steve Gribbon writes ‘ Rather than confusing matters and calling it something else it seems best practise to use the name provided by the DoT,’ but actually, Steve, re-using a reference to a place which, as far as we can tell, is non-existent, really has ‘confused matters!’
Steve, can you enlighten us: what is the actual route of the railway line that you and Clllr Smart wrote to the DfT about?
I would reiterate this request @Steve Gribbon - What is the route that you support being reinstated? Can we have a map or diagram please? Or at least a clear description.
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A ludicrous and financially wasteful idea. Trains cannot go everywhere. There is a perfectly good bus service to Stockport which only takes 20 mins. If more people actually got the bus, there would be fewer cars on the road meaning quicker buses.
I live in Marple and work near Manchester airport. I have never had a problem travelling to Stockport and then a 15 min bus to the airport, and vice versa.
I often have cause to get to the airport for an early flight and am with @royal_marple on this, although sadly, the times I have to get to the airport are typically pre-6am and bus services are a little light at that time. I have often used the train but to get to the airport via Manchester, I might as well go via Carlisle! Let's Just have a few more buses, maybe some greener ones too! I fly to and work in Aberdeen and the buses there to/from the airport are frequent, 24/7, clean and cheap! I certainly don't need a car there.
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I live in Marple and work near Manchester airport. I have never had a problem travelling to Stockport and then a 15 min bus to the airport, and vice versa.
I'm happy for you if that's the case. But I can't believe it's possible never to have had a problem travelling to Stockport from Marple!
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What is the route that you support being reinstated? Can we have a map or diagram please? Or at least a clear description.
Through Maple grove of course... doesn't everyone know where that is?
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I'm happy for you if that's the case. But I can't believe it's possible never to have had a problem travelling to Stockport from Marple!
the fact that you might have a problem getting to Stockport isn't because there isn't a train route to it, a train route is therefore not the fix!
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I'm happy for you if that's the case. But I can't believe it's possible never to have had a problem travelling to Stockport from Marple!
Can regularly take 40 minutes on the bus to Stockport during rush hour. All you need is one of those mornings where the traffic's backed up from Otterspool Road all the way up to the Co-op and you're screwed.
I sometimes get the 0723 train from Stockport to London. If I am, I get the bus from Marple at 0643. Loads of time.
I sometimes get the 0823 train. I get the bus around quarter past seven and it's touch and go as to whether I'll have time to relaxedly walk to the railway station, maybe grab a coffee, or whether I have to run.
The trouble is, the traffic tends to be heading to the M60, clogging everything up. Once you're passed Otterspool Road, the bus tends to be fine.
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Can regularly take 40 minutes on the bus to Stockport during rush hour. All you need is one of those mornings where the traffic's backed up from Otterspool Road all the way up to the Co-op and you're screwed.
I sometimes get the 0723 train from Stockport to London. If I am, I get the bus from Marple at 0643. Loads of time.
I sometimes get the 0823 train. I get the bus around quarter past seven and it's touch and go as to whether I'll have time to relaxedly walk to the railway station, maybe grab a coffee, or whether I have to run.
The trouble is, the traffic tends to be heading to the M60, clogging everything up. Once you're passed Otterspool Road, the bus tends to be fine.
Oh for a bypass to the M60 from Hazel grove.... (oh, but we're not allowed that are we!).
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the fact that you might have a problem getting to Stockport isn't because there isn't a train route to it, a train route is therefore not the fix!
On the contrary, as I showed in a previous post, a train route is the fix, because it provides a 20-minute journey 24/7. As opposed to how it is now, and will be for the foreseeable future:
Can regularly take 40 minutes on the bus to Stockport during rush hour. All you need is one of those mornings where the traffic's backed up from Otterspool Road all the way up to the Co-op and you're screwed.
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Would a dedicated bus-only road from Marple to Stockport be a good compromise? They exist elsewhere but not sure what they're called.
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Would a dedicated bus-only road from Marple to Stockport be a good compromise? They exist elsewhere but not sure what they're called.
For get it it wont happen .just something to comment about it would cost more than HS2
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For get it it wont happen .just something to comment about it would cost more than HS2
A 4 mile bus-only lane would cost over £100bn? ???
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A 4 mile bus-only lane would cost over £100bn? ???
Not bad for four buses per hour in each direction ie 383/384 every 20 minutes, one 358 per hour down to two or three in the evening though the money would be better spent on a tram from Rose Hill with a 90 degree turn and descent onto the Buxton line rather like that in Salford on the Eccles tram or a tram along existing line from Rose Hill to the M60 descending to the old railway line at the back of Essex Rd/Brindale Rd, Brinnington, under the Brinnington Rd tunnel by the old Jack & Jill pub, descend to Tiviot Way, across the almost derelict fields below Lancashire Hill flats to the bottom of Lancashire Hill, left across motorway then right along Princes St to Mersey Square/Bus station. We are no longer digging for Britain so the Rose Hill allotments would be suitable for a car park to take the cars that would no longer need to queue in the long jams to/from Stockport.
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Apparently my idea is called a bus corridor.
If there was a dedicated bus lane right down the A6 from High Lane to Stockport, then all that would be needed is a traffic free route from Marple to High Lane.
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And look how successful the bus lane in Stockport was, it was an utter and complete was of money.
Out of interest how much has already been wasted on these proposals by a councillor who can't even give specifics about how such a scheme would connect to the existing network or its route through an already densely populated area?.
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Steve, can you enlighten us: what is the actual route of the railway line that you and Clllr Smart wrote to the DfT about?
I would reiterate this request @Steve Gribbon - What is the route that you support being reinstated? Can we have a map or diagram please? Or at least a clear description.
Come on Steve - spill the beans! Where is the mystery railway line?
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Good luck actually getting a straight answer, it's probably cheaper and more cost effective to just sort out the two primary problems which cause traffic to back up.
That being the junction at Bredbury near the old rat pit and the double junction on Dan bank.
Sort those and traffic would flow and people who have time to use public transport can use so with a regular schedule.
The simple solution is the easiest instead of pie in the sky schemes that would cost billions.
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Good luck actually getting a straight answer, it's probably cheaper and more cost effective to just sort out the two primary problems which cause traffic to back up.
That being the junction at Bredbury near the old rat pit and the double junction on Dan bank.
Sort those and traffic would flow and people who have time to use public transport can use so with a regular schedule.
The simple solution is the easiest instead of pie in the sky schemes that would cost billions.
That's not a solution at all, all it would mean is that people continue to use their cars. Surely the whole point of Monday day traffic management is to get people out of their cars onto public transport. If motorists don't respond to the carrot perhaps it's time to think of greater restriction on car usage.
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No wheels you don't seem to actually understand how to persuade people out of the car other than taxing the joy and freedom car ownership brings.
If public transport isn't slowed down by traffic, motorists are more likely to be tempted away especially when it comes to finding parking etc.
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There is a road from Dooley Lane where the cattery is/was which leads to next to Offerton Sand & Gravel. Could this form part of a segregated bus route?
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Good luck actually getting a straight answer, it's probably cheaper and more cost effective to just sort out the two primary problems which cause traffic to back up.
That being the junction at Bredbury near the old rat pit and the double junction on Dan bank.
Sort those and traffic would flow and people who have time to use public transport can use so with a regular schedule.
The simple solution is the easiest instead of pie in the sky schemes that would cost billions.
How do you propose to 'sort the double junction on Dan Bank' without huge amounts of earthworks and destruction and enormous cost? Thats never going to happen. What you have now is what will always be.
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How about widening the road into the tree free woodland by a couple of feet to give an actual two lane road to reduce the bottleneck.
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Come on Steve - spill the beans! Where is the mystery railway line?
Good luck actually getting a straight answer
It seems GM was right, although to be fair to Cllr Gribbon, he mentioned last week that he had limited internet access, so maybe that's why he hasn't got back to us? But Cllr Smart's office is not providing any information either, apart from assuring us that 'the Councillors will keep you updated with any news' (which they are not, at the moment).
We really do need a rail link between Marple and Stockport, and it's good that our elected representatives are pressing the government om our behalf - thank you! But as I pointed out before, the letter from Cllrs Gribbon and Smart refers to 'reinstating the Rose Hill to Maple Grove line' 'using existing track'. That makes no sense to me, and I think we're entitled to know exactly what it is that our councillors are asking for, which route they have in mind, and of course, where Maple Grove is.
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According to Google there is a road by that name in Failsworth, so you never know!.
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Hmmm. Marple to Stockport via Failsworth. I’ll need to think about that……….. 🙄
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Hmmm. Marple to Stockport via Failsworth. I’ll need to think about that……….. 🙄
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars ,
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This statement about the budget from our MP William Wragg seems to throw some light on this issue: https://www.williamwragg.org.uk/news/william-wragg-mp-secures-boost-2021-budget-our-area
Quote: ‘William has secured funding for a feasibility study to link Rose Hill Marple, Romiley and Bredbury to Stockport Train station. This is a significant step to instate a service between Stockport and its neighbouring towns. This will come from the ‘Restore Your Railway’ bid, which aims to develop an re-instate lost rail services across the United Kingdom.’
Obviously we don’t know precisely the route the line might take, but one thing we do know is that it cannot be an exact ‘reinstatement’ of the former line because that route has been built on between Bredbury and Stockport.
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How much of the rush hour traffic is people who actually work IN Stockport though? Most of the traffic seems to be heading towards the Portwood and Bredbury motorway entrances.
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How much of the rush hour traffic is people who actually work IN Stockport though? Most of the traffic seems to be heading towards the Portwood and Bredbury motorway entrances.
Thats why we needed a new Bredbury by pass not a a train line .
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building more roads won't stop people driving: if anything it will encourage more car use, see the science of "induced demand". Short term, work like that will cause more issues as roads are closed while they are "improved" or junctions are constructed, then within a few years people will be complaining that the new road is too busy and we nee more roads.
What we actually need to do is give people useful alternatives - then those who NEED to drive can do so, while those just using a car becuase it's more convenient / cheaper can benefit from improved (more frequent, more direct, less expensive) public transport, or can get on a bike without fearing they might not get to the other end of their journey as some half-asleep commuter knocked them off while takng a bite from the breakfast they HAVE to eat on the move as it tale so long to commute by car....
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What we actually need to do is give people useful alternatives - then those who NEED to drive can do so, while those just using a car becuase it's more convenient / cheaper can benefit from improved (more frequent, more direct, less expensive) public transport, or can get on a bike without fearing they might not get to the other end of their journey as some half-asleep commuter knocked them off while takng a bite from the breakfast they HAVE to eat on the move as it tale so long to commute by car....
On that note, there's a funding bid to improve public transport in the Greater Manchester area. One of the things they want to do is have 70 bus routes with a ten minute frequency. The routes haven't been specified but a map they have released clearly shows the route of the 383/384.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greater-manchesters-new-bus-network-21986423#ICID=Android_MENNewsApp_AppShare
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Well that'll be nice seeing all the every 10 minute bus service all bunched together in a queue on Dan bank!.
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If buses were free there would be substantially fewer cars on the road.
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What utter tosh.
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If buses were free there would be substantially fewer cars on the road.
And who pays for your free buses .
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And who pays for your free buses .
Same people who pay for you to drive down any road you like as much as you like, for the relatively minimal fee of your Vehicle Excise Duty I would guess.
I pay £20 a year for my car to have that honour.
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Same people who pay for you to drive down any road you like as much as you like, for the relatively minimal fee of your Vehicle Excise Duty I would guess.
I pay £20 a year for my car to have that honour.
I dont drive anymore .
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I pay for that right to use the Queens highways, through that road tax.
Plus your glossing over the 75% tax on fuel, or whatever scandalous amount it is.
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I pay for that right to use the Queens highways, through that road tax.
Plus your glossing over the 75% tax on fuel, or whatever scandalous amount it is.
No you don't Road Fund Tax was abolished in 1937. Highways are paid out of general taxation by all of us.
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You can dress it up and call it whatever you wish.
If I don't pay it and have both a valid mot and insurance you'll find it won't be on the public highway for very long!
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It's simple. You pay for the right to drive down a road (via Vehicle Excise Duty.). But the charge doesn't specifically pay for roads. It goes into the general pot. Just like the duties on fuel, alcohol, VAT and more.
They won't, but the government could decide tomorrow not to spend a single penny on road repair and development, and they'd still be able to charge you for the right to drive on them.
You could argue it's all semantics. But that's just the way taxation works in this country.
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You can dress it up and call it whatever you wish.
If I don't pay it and have both a valid mot and insurance you'll find it won't be on the public highway for very long!
Well as you have been reminded, you don't pay road tax. What is it about a certain section of motorists that are obsessed by this thought that they still pay road tax and this therefore entitling to priority over certain other road users.
if you are paying a tax then it may pay a vehicle emission tax, this being calculated on how polluting that the vehicle is that you drive. For those that use more environmentally friendly models, this tax amounts to zero.
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Returning to the original subject of this thread (trains), this useful statement from SMBC sets out clearly what is envisaged in the feasibility study which has just been announced. It confirms that any new rail link between Rose Hill and Stockport would indeed be a 'spur' off the existing Guide Bridge to Stockport line, which is surely the only practical solution.
https://www.stockport.gov.uk/news/government-awards-grant-to-develop-plans-for-rail-link-between-Ashton-Stockport
It's helpful that the study will be looking not just at Rose Hill to Stockport, but also Ashton to Stockport, all as part of one scheme. Which might help make the economics of the scheme stack up (you can always hope.........).