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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: CTCREP on March 22, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
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This is a continuation of a discussion that started about Etherow Country Park which was to have a relatively little used road upgraded wgich is mainly used for leisure, while the Council efuses to upgrade Rollins Lane that would allow ordinary pedesrians and cyclists living in Compstall to access Marple Station and Marple Hall School etc. Please read on.
Dave’s reply to my post on the Etherow Country Park issue I have copied here to keep the two issues separate.
Rollins Lane is a public right of way. It is a bridleway, which horse riders, cyclists and walkers are permitted to use. SMBC are legally responsible for maintaining it to a standard appropriate for horse riders”.
This is what I have always been told by the Council, and the Council always caters for horse riders ignoring the fact that the Rollins Lane and other Bridleways is also used by Cyclists and Walkers.
Indeed, but that is not because the council chooses to cater for horse riders and ignores cyclists and walkers - it is simply what the law dictates. The relevant law is section 30 of the Countryside Act (1928): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/41.
"Riding of pedal bicycles on bridleways.
Any member of the public shall have, as a right of way, the right to ride a bicycle, [F107not being a mechanically propelled vehicle], on any bridleway, but in exercising that right cyclists shall give way to pedestrians and persons on horseback. The rights conferred by this section shall not affect the obligations of the highway authority, or of any other person, as respects the maintenance of the bridleway, and this section shall not create any obligation to do anything to facilitate the use of the bridleway by cyclists."
Although the law is as stated, it is not unusual for laws not to get updated. Currently the Government is trying to persuade more people to Walk or Cycle instead of using their cars. This means that routes should be found wherever possible for people to comply with their wishes. In the case of Rollins Lane and the Path through Brabyns Park it is obviously a route that people could take to access Marple Station, Marple Hall School etc At present it is unacceptable because it is only suitable for horses, the riders of which are unlikely to ride all the way to work etc. So in this instance Cyclists and Walkers should take precedence.
For the Council to rely on an Outdated Law and refuse to cater for their residents by ignoring the Government’s recommendation shows a distinct lack of understanding of how the world is changing.
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First, an apology for my typo there, in the blue bit that CTREP quoted. The Countryside Act was 1968, not 1928! But that's still a long time ago......
On CTREP's broader point about the desirability of upgrading Rollins Lane, I don't disagree. However, if the law were to be 'updated' to require local authorities to resurface bridleways so that they are good enough for comfortable cycling, that would create significant additional costs for local authorities which are already struggling to maintain essential services following the drastic cuts imposed in the Cameron/ Osborne austerity programme ten years ago. And the combined effect of Covid and Brexit will only make the situation even worse. So don't hold your breath"!
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I really can't understand why Dave is opposed to upgrading Rollins Lane etc, Rollins Lane and the path through Brabyns Park is an obvious route to provide a cycling and walking connection between Marple and Compstall both for commuting and leisure. At present the road in Brabyms Park is getting some attention, it is to be hoped they will continue through to Compstall Road., and If not, Why not, particularly when the Government is trying to persude Councils to enable people to cycle or walk instead of using their cars.
If the argument is that they do not have the funds for esential services, they appear to have found sufficient funds to upgrade several lenghts of Bridleway in the Mellor Strines area, none of which could be considered essential.
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I really can't understand why Dave is opposed to upgrading Rollins Lane etc,
I'm not opposed to it. On the contrary, I wrote: On CTREP's broader point about the desirability of upgrading Rollins Lane, I don't disagree.
I wish CTREP luck with his campaign - let's hope it works. But I fear it won't. >:(
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I really can't understand why Dave is opposed to upgrading Rollins Lane etc, Rollins Lane and the path through Brabyns Park is an obvious route to provide a cycling and walking connection between Marple and Compstall both for commuting and leisure. At present the road in Brabyms Park is getting some attention, it is to be hoped they will continue through to Compstall Road., and If not, Why not, particularly when the Government is trying to persude Councils to enable people to cycle or walk instead of using their cars.
If the argument is that they do not have the funds for esential services, they appear to have found sufficient funds to upgrade several lenghts of Bridleway in the Mellor Strines area, none of which could be considered essential.
Would u use that route at night when dark .
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Personally yes, but I understand may wouldn't - which is why it needs upgrading. This includes lighting as well as surfacing. We as a society need to accept the fact that car dependency is going to have to decrease - we'll always need cars but we need to make it much easier and more pleasant for people to get about without needing a car where it's possible and practical to do so. This means making choices about how to join locations using paths that are appropriate for users and not just a way of getting bikes / pedestrians out of the way of car without making it easier for the non-car user - plus further changes such as how to improve public transport and other things. I think Andy Burnham's announcement yesteday that GM is bringing the bus service back under public control is the start of this, perhaps we might see a bus service that offers regular, reliable transport to all areas thoughout the day / week rather than having some places that see a couple of bus services on a wekday with nothing at the weekend whle other areas see blanket saturation
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Personally yes, but I understand may wouldn't - which is why it needs upgrading. This includes lighting as well as surfacing. We as a society need to accept the fact that car dependency is going to have to decrease - we'll always need cars but we need to make it much easier and more pleasant for people to get about without needing a car where it's possible and practical to do so. This means making choices about how to join locations using paths that are appropriate for users and not just a way of getting bikes / pedestrians out of the way of car without making it easier for the non-car user - plus further changes such as how to improve public transport and other things. I think Andy Burnham's announcement yesteday that GM is bringing the bus service back under public control is the start of this, perhaps we might see a bus service that offers regular, reliable transport to all areas thoughout the day / week rather than having some places that see a couple of bus services on a wekday with nothing at the weekend whle other areas see blanket saturation
What bus service do you say is not reliable .
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First an apology to Dave for assuming his outlining of the law was meant he was opposed to improving Rollins Lane, I hope he will join me in trying to improve conditions within Stockport.
As to Amazon’s query on who would be willing to walk along Rollins Lane at night, well I and many others have done so, particularly on Bonfire Night, however as a general rule, no I wouldn’t in its present state when you don’t know what you are going to tread in next. But just because some may be unwilling to use it at night, that is no reason not to provide a decent surface for everyone who would like to use it during the day. At present many drive to Marple Station etc. and the students could cycle to school and college, as well as people who just want to walk through the Parks without getting covered in mud and worse.
The Government is trying to encourage more people to walk and cycle, but besides that, Marple was once a weekend retreat for Manchester people and could be so again providing income to the cafes and pubs etc if the Council catered for people on foot or or by bicycle by enabling them to get around safely and comfortably.
You have probably not seen what the Council has provided for a few scattered dwellings in the Mellor Strines area which are only accessible by bridleway. There appears to be no problem with finding the money there. There is probably over a mile in total of sections that benefit relatively few people. So why not Rollins Lane? Which surface would you prefer?
Mellor Strines area. or. Rollins Lane
It will soon be election time. Time to ask who is willing challenge the Council on why it fails to follow Government Policy to enable more walking and cycling in the Marple Area.
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First an apology to Dave for assuming his outlining of the law was meant he was opposed to improving Rollins Lane, I hope he will join me in trying to improve conditions within Stockport.
As to Amazon’s query on who would be willing to walk along Rollins Lane at night, well I and many others have done so, particularly on Bonfire Night, however as a general rule, no I wouldn’t in its present state when you don’t know what you are going to tread in next. But just because some may be unwilling to use it at night, that is no reason not to provide a decent surface for everyone who would like to use it during the day. At present many drive to Marple Station etc. and the students could cycle to school and college, as well as people who just want to walk through the Parks without getting covered in mud and worse.
The Government is trying to encourage more people to walk and cycle, but besides that, Marple was once a weekend retreat for Manchester people and could be so again providing income to the cafes and pubs etc if the Council catered for people on foot or or by bicycle by enabling them to get around safely and comfortably.
You have probably not seen what the Council has provided for a few scattered dwellings in the Mellor Strines area which are only accessible by bridleway. There appears to be no problem with finding the money there. There is probably over a mile in total of sections that benefit relatively few people. So why not Rollins Lane? Which surface would you prefer?
Mellor Strines area. or. Rollins Lane
It will soon be election time. Time to ask who is willing challenge the Council on why it fails to follow Government Policy to enable more walking and cycling in the Marple Area.
Have you asked the people that there houses back on to Rollins lane do they want it improving it would incorage fly tipping possible car dumping have you thought of that .the suface is not in bad condition as it is .and were do you resurface it to the Bridge do you include going over the Bridge and beyond .
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You have probably not seen what the Council has provided for a few scattered dwellings in the Mellor Strines area which are only accessible by bridleway. There appears to be no problem with finding the money there. There is probably over a mile in total of sections that benefit relatively few people. So why not Rollins Lane? Which surface would you prefer?
Mellor Strines area. or. Rollins Lane
Personally, I'd prefer the Rollins Lane surface, I dislike the way so many paths are ruined like the Strines one. However, I recognise that some people prefer over-done surfaces and I also recognise that the new surface is better for wheelchair access of course. Let's not ruin all the paths and lanes though. Maybe there is room for both in this case and others.
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Firstly Amazon, the surface of Rollins Lane at present does not impede motorists, so there will be no change in the amount of fly-tipping etc. of which I haven’t noticed any. It only impedes cyclists and pedestrians where the surface is totally unacceptable for everyday use. Consider pushing a wheelchair along it, even worse for one whose chair is hand propelled.
As for the effect on the adjacent houses, to my knowledge they did not object to the short lengths of resurfacing adjacent to their houses that I managed to persuade the Council to provide, and I very much doubt the householders in the Mellor Strines area objected to their adjacent footpaths and bridleways being upgraded, in fact I believe they proposed it.
Furthermore, from the experience of friends who live close to what was a disused railway line similar to the MIddlewood Way, but which leads into the City of Derby, once its surface was made suitable for commuting by bicycle the value of the houses increased where they had easy access to the route.
In reply to Condate, I agree we do not want all footpaths to be covered in tarmac. but we live in an Urban Area where traffic and vehicles parked on the pavements make many roads, such as Compstall Road, really unpleasant to use. Far better to walk and cycle between Marple and Compstall via Brabyns Park without have to wear special footwear, or having to clean your bike after every journey. If you go to Bramhall and Happy Valley the Council caters for the major routes in a proper way, so why do they continually refuse to cater for Brabyns Park and those that wish to use it. Furthermore, the Government wants to encourage more cycling and walking, so why does Stockport Council think it is unnecessary to take sensible steps to comply? .
I shall be writing to our MP William Wragg - william@williamwragg.org.uk to ask him to ensure that any use of our Council Tax Money, and any Government Grants the Council receives will actually result in more people being able to leave their cars at home and to commute to work etc on foot or by bicycle. I hope others will do so as well, and to contact anyone else that has, or hopes to have, any influence over Stockport MBC.
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Those particular works were funded by a flood relief fund and network rail. (The council are generally incapable of doing works like that to such a high standard!)
I don't generally use Rollins Lane but it would provide a good occasional shortcut should it be re-surfaced. In general the council could improve all of these routes and should do, it'd be a fraction of what is spent on roads.
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Hello Andy.
I had heard that a Government Flood Repair Fund was used for several lengths of Bridleway in the Mellor Strines area which, apart from one short length of bridleway where, presumably, something heavy had gone along it and damaged a field drain that passed beneath it, but none of the rest of the bridlewayss were in danger of being flooded. This is at a time when the Council was saying they had no money to repair the footpath alongside the River Etheerow in Etherow Country Park and so were willing to lose that part of the Park to the river.
It is fascinating to hear that Network Rail was involved as well, I could make a case for them to be involved in the section below the railway bridge but that is only a fraction of he overall combined length that I estimate to be over 1 mile ,none of which was likely to be flooded from the river.
I agree it would be great to have the Goyt Way surfaced betwen Strines Station and Marple Bridge to allow people living on the Stines estate to acces the shopss etc without having the somewhat nervewracking experience of using Strines Road, but in reality that is unlikely to happen for many years, yet surfacing Rollins Lane and on through Brbyns Park is a realistic proposition being a fraction of the cost of the Mellor Strines work and benmefits considrably mre people.
For info. The Council has just resurfaced part of the road within Etherow Country Park - a distance greater than the Rollins Lane/Brabyns Park section though used by far fewer peole. It has been said it was to allow Emergency vehicles to get to the Cottage in the Park, you must come to your own conclusion for that.
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Personally, I'd prefer the Rollins Lane surface, I dislike the way so many paths are ruined like the Strines one. However, I recognise that some people prefer over-done surfaces and I also recognise that the new surface is better for wheelchair access of course. Let's not ruin all the paths and lanes though. Maybe there is room for both in this case and others.
“Ruined”... definition: made more accessible to more people. :o
As for better surfacing attracting fly tippers, what an absolute nonsense reason not to improve something for everyone else. Shall we remove the tarmac from Dan Bank because people throw litter out of their car windows? Unless you live on Rollins Lane, I don’t understand how you can have any strong opinion against this.
I agree with CTCREP, with improvements going on elsewhere it is now looking ever more poor that the council won’t give Rollins Lane an all-weather surface, like everyone in their precious cars enjoy on the roads (which are narrow and hostile for cycling). And while they’re at it, a proper crossing over Compstall Road is long overdue to provide a route to Etherow. The car park there is always packed, I wonder how many are simply driving from Marple because there’s no pleasant route for families?
I do think this fight is best taken to local councillors to galvanise their support though, and maybe organise signatures or letter writing from residents in Compstall who want to see the link improved. Nothing will be gained just posting it here, even if it’s a good outlet for annoyance!
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“Ruined”... definition: made more accessible to more people. :o
It's OK rsh - it's just Condate fulfilling his traditional role as the forum's resident contrarian ;). Remember the Brexit debates, and Condate's priceless 'it's the EU who are anti-European!'. And then there's that wacky old favourite '[Marple] is a Cheshire town. What it most certainly isn't is part of Greater Manchester.'
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“Ruined”... definition: made more accessible to more people. :o
Ruined in the sense that rather than provide for both accessibility and for people who go to places like that to avoid tarmac surfaces, you can at least try and allow for both. The last thing anyone wants is to tarmac every surface and spoil things for people who want natural (or semi-natural) surfaces. There is room for both in so many cases. Accessibility doesn't have to mean cover the lot in tarmac.
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This was the source of info - https://www.peaksandpuddles.com/blog/2020/09/09/flood-damaged-strines-to-roman-lakes-bridleway-given-flexipave-fix/ I can't see the full reference to network rail - i dont think I dreamt it though. I'll keep looking.
I think a lot of this comes down to the durability vs cost. I think the flexipave offers a good durable compromise that gives a solid, clean surface for walkers and cyclists but accommodates horses.
I take my daughter to school by bike and we travel through Brabyns. Part of that path looks to have been resurfaced with planings, they have washed away in parts already, they lasted a couple of weeks. So they material was cheap but the labour will have costed and the net effect is a newly rutted surface replacing an old rutted surface.
At the other end of Marple you'll see the Alan Newton way is closed for resurfacing. https://www.peaksandpuddles.com/blog/2021/03/16/alan-newton-way-closed-for-maintenance-work-below-marple-hall/
It'll be interesting to see what it is surfaced with, bearing in mind that the last surface washed away down such a steep section of path. I'd love for it to be a solid surface but I expect some compressed gravel.
Andy
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It's going to be flexipave
https://twitter.com/TPT_Stockport/status/1377754842362429442