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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: admin on November 15, 2019, 01:04:50 PM
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Closure of Rose Hill School on Polling Day [12 December 2019]
So who is it that decides a 550+ pupil school must close for a day when we go to the polls?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJaqL3dWwAA_dJ_?format=jpg&name=large)
Does anyone know what's the criteria and process for making that decision?
It is understood that the local authority has the right to use the school and the school management has no say in the matter but how does the local authority decide the benefit of doing this, compared to, say, installing a temporary porta-cabin somewhere in the school grounds or at another location nearby – which is exactly what they do at Marple College on Buxton Lane for voters in that area.
Why can't a stand-alone porta-cabin be erected for the Rose Hill area? Is it down to cost? And if so, does the local authority take into account the disruption and expense to parents of pupils at Rose Hill School? That those who work will have to take a day's holiday or unpaid leave, or they may have to pay for extra childcare? How does the local authority weight all this up and come to the conclusion that, sod it, we'll shut this large school down for a day to use as a polling booth and disrupt the education of over 500 children.
So who is it? What department and who is the head of it?
Can they please explain the decision process that they have gone through and why it is considered to be their best option? Because it surely can't be their only option can it? There must be many ways this could be done so that it doesn't cause a large school to close for the day!
Can any of our local councillors or our former MP shed any light on this please?
@Malcolm Allan
@Steve Gribbon
@TomDowseMarpleSouth
@BeckySenior
@ColinMac
@Aron Thornley
@William Wragg MP
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As a parent with a child at Rose Hill, this obviously is something I'd like to know.
We are fortunate that Rose Hill generally can stay open during elections. The issue - for those that don't know - is that the hall is used for polling. This means that they can't use it to feed the children. Normally during an election, they use the classrooms and outdoor space at dinnertime and give the children a packed lunch. Given the time of year, they can't use the outdoor space. And they don't have enough indoor space. Thus the whole school is being closed because of space issues between 11:55 and 1:10. I wonder if the fact that Rose Hill normally stays open meant that the need for it to close wasn't even considered.
There are many schools that can't stay open during any election. And this year those schools will now have lost three days of education thanks to the local elections, European elections and now this general election. (Local elections have in the past been scheduled to happen on the same day as European Parliament elections, thus reducing that problem. But our pig-headed government wouldn't do that this year.) I understand why schools make ideal polling places. But the impact to the education of our children and to their parents, amounts up.
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Depriving 550 kids of a day's education so that the election can take place seems quite disproportionate.
Why does it have to be at the school at all? Up here in Mellor we vote at the sports club and the school stays open. Marple Cricket Club is just over the road from Rose Hill - what's wrong with that?
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In Marple Bridge we vote at the Women's Institute - doesn't affect the schools. Agree with the comments, not sure why they are using the school in Marple, there must be other suitable places.
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Depriving 550 kids of a day's education so that the election can take place seems quite disproportionate.
Why does it have to be at the school at all? Up here in Mellor we vote at the sports club and the school stays open. Marple Cricket Club is just over the road from Rose Hill - what's wrong with that?
I don't know either way, but it's possible the Cricket Club already has regular bookings on Thursdays. Or that no alternative venue has ever been sought because the school normally manages to stay open during elections.
As I noted below - this is a specific problem at Rose Hill caused by the time of year. Normally they don't close for elections.
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Depriving 550 kids of a day's education so that the election can take place seems quite disproportionate.
Why does it have to be at the school at all? Up here in Mellor we vote at the sports club and the school stays open. Marple Cricket Club is just over the road from Rose Hill - what's wrong with that?
Crazy closing a school that could mean parents losing a days work to look after there children .
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Good morning
I confess I don't know the criteria for deciding on polling stations, but I have asked SMBC on behalf of the Local Councillors, to give us an explanation of the decision making process and as soon as I have a response, I will share it.
Thanks
Becky Senior
@Malcolm Allan
@TomDowseMarpleSouth
@ColinMac
@Steve Gribbon
@Aron Thornley
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I don't know either way, but it's possible the Cricket Club already has regular bookings on Thursdays. Or that no alternative venue has ever been sought because the school normally manages to stay open during elections.
As I noted below - this is a specific problem at Rose Hill caused by the time of year. Normally they don't close for elections.
Function room is booked up for Quiz night on the thursdays at the Cricket Club.
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Good morning
I confess I don't know the criteria for deciding on polling stations, but I have asked SMBC on behalf of the Local Councillors, to give us an explanation of the decision making process and as soon as I have a response, I will share it.
Thanks
Becky Senior
@Malcolm Allan
@TomDowseMarpleSouth
@ColinMac
@Steve Gribbon
@Aron Thornley
Thank you Becky, that will be helpful.
Below is a notice taken from the myschools web site that sheds some light on the process. It was for the referendum but the same basic rules must apply.
With regard to Rose Hill, it raises questions like:
- How has SMBC worked with the school to minimise disruption?
- Why can't a classroom be used instead of the hall - this would avoid the issues described by @andrewbowden
- What alternative options have been investigated?
EU Referendum - Information for Headteachers regarding the use of schools as a Polling Station
Please note that for this referendum the law will require that schools must be used as polling stations where they are selected by the Counting Officer. We appreciate that this is very short notice and that this may cause disruption. Where possible Electoral Services will seek to work with your school to try and minimise the disruption, but ultimately as your school has been deemed to be the most suitable venue then the school cannot refuse to allow its use.
Further Information on Use of Schools as Polling Stations
The Counting Officer is required to provide a polling station for voters in each of the authority’s polling districts. Whilst ideally the Council would have the choice of a range of fully accessible buildings, conveniently located for the electors in the area, this is not always the case and there are areas of the authority where schools are the only premises which can accommodate voting.
The law requires that schools must be used as polling stations where they are selected by the Counting Officer.
The counting officer may use, free of charge, for the purpose of taking the poll—
(a) A room in a school maintained or assisted by a local authority or a room in a school in respect of which grants are made out of moneys provided by Parliament to the person or body of persons responsible for the management of the school.
(b) A room the expense of maintaining which is met by any local authority.
This legislation also covers voluntary aided schools and Academies on the basis that they receive monies from Parliament.
Where possible the Counting Officer’s staff will seek to work with your school to try and minimise disruption, but ultimately if a certain school or room is deemed to be the most suitable venue then the school cannot refuse to allow it to be used.
If your school has been used before but you would like to change the room used or any other arrangement you should contact Electoral Services immediately.
Finally it is important that if the school premises are used for polling purposes there should be no obstruction to access to voting on the premises and to voters during the polling hours of 7.00 a.m. to 10.00 p.m.
Options for Schools
As you are aware the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 and the associated regulations (The Education (School Day and School Year (England) Regulations 1999 (No 3181)) requires that schools should meet for not less than 380 sessions (190 days) for pupils.
You should bear in mind that polling staff are not subject to DBS checks, previously CRB, and latest guidance states that they are not required to be so on the basis that they do not meet the regulated activity legislative eligibility requirement, as they only have the opportunity for contact with children on an ad hoc or irregular basis for short periods of time. It is for you as Headteacher to undertake a risk assessment and consider if there is a safeguarding issue.
While advising you of the statutory position it is recognised that closure disrupts education and also impacts on attendance levels. Schools required to close on polling day in the past have rescheduled an INSET day on the day of closure or have made up the lost day by other means, either at the beginning or end of a term. Examples of other arrangements to avoid closure include the following:
* using nurseries or children’s centres to ensure that the provision of statutory education is not interrupted;
* providing additional directional signage to ensure electors do not approach the school reception.
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I am guessing the issue with using a classroom is safeguarding. They can isolate the hall from the pupils quite easily. Classrooms wouldn't be easy to do so. Maybe they could do the nursery area but have no idea if the layout of that room would work.
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I am guessing the issue with using a classroom is safeguarding. They can isolate the hall from the pupils quite easily. Classrooms wouldn't be easy to do so. Maybe they could do the nursery area but have no idea if the layout of that room would work.
I'm not that familiar with the layout of the whole school either but the ground floor plan suggests that there are many rooms that can be accessed from outside and could be isolated from the inside that could be less disruptive than losing the hall. I would like to see some evidence that this has been properly looked at with the objective of minimising disruption to the school.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm not that familiar with the layout of the whole school either but the ground floor plan suggests that there are many rooms that can be accessed from outside and could be isolated from the inside that could be less disruptive than losing the hall. I would like to see some evidence that this has been properly looked at with the objective of minimising disruption to the school.
The way the school works is that all the ground floor classrooms have exits out into the playground and exits onto the main corridor. From the main corridor you can get anywhere in the school.
The other way into the main corridor is from the main reception. To get into the school from reception, you have to sign in and the door connecting the office to the corridor is access controlled.
So to use a classroom for polling you either block all outdoor access and have voters accessing from the playground, or you have them coming in via main reception, and so you run the risk of anyone getting access to the whole of the school.
The reason they can normally use the hall for polling is because that has access from the car park. They have doors that open onto the car park, and people can access that without going in the playground and without using main reception.
I guess they could use the dining/small studio in the same way. It could just be big enough and could be isolated. But that has issues as there would be no way for the kitchen to get to serve food
The Parent Community room probably is too small but I also think (and I could be wrong) that it's used for pre and post school activities. The only other room that's isolated is the heads office.
I have no special knowledge on these things other than that my son goes there and I have been in the building several times for various activities, events and parents evenings. The school do take both safeguarding and attendance very seriously and I am sure if they have considered every option. I think the school - like many - is in an impossible position here. The fault clearly lies in the system which prioritises cheaper solutions like using schools, over the education of millions of children.
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Will also say I feel for the staff trying to organise this election. It's all been done at the last minute at a time of year when room availability is especially difficult. This cannot have been easy.
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I am guessing the issue with using a classroom is safeguarding. They can isolate the hall from the pupils quite easily. Classrooms wouldn't be easy to do so. Maybe they could do the nursery area but have no idea if the layout of that room would work.
Safeguarding will be the excuse (it always is if 'elf 'n' safety or "data protection" can't be used), but from the info on the referendum that was published in this thread, I would guess that the actual reason is that any change to the normal room has to be approved, and that bureaucracy said "No!"
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Safeguarding will be the excuse (it always is if 'elf 'n' safety or "data protection" can't be used), but from the info on the referendum that was published in this thread, I would guess that the actual reason is that any change to the normal room has to be approved, and that bureaucracy said "No!"
I doubt that's the case at all. And like I said, there are severe problems with using any than a very small number rooms. Equally I see no reason for the school to give a fake excuse to cover up for bureaucracy. They have no incentive to do so, and arguably every excuse to call it out as doing so could change the situation.
It's a rather tired, pointless view to blame bureau for everything
And whilst some people may be comfortable with thousands of voters wandering around the school grounds in areas where, I am not. Not so much from a stranger danger level, but from the disruption it would cause the pupils.
The ultimate solution to this is to do voting at weekend like many democracies. But that will never happen because we as a nation can't possibly do what other countries do. We are too arrogant to change anything. It's simply not British.
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Lets remember it is the Labour and the Liberal Democrats that (being in control of the council) have decided that the education of chidden is of so little importance that they are not willing to use a tent (for example) in the car park instead of closing the school.
I know that it is the “Counting Officer” not the Labour and the Liberal Democrats that legally decides, but the councillor clearly don’t care enough to use their powers as the “Counting Officer” employer.
If need be tempory fences like used on building sites could be used to separate the children from the public.
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The Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats have an equal number of councillors on Stockport Council but it is the Labour Party who run the administration.
The Tories of course are no where in terms of elected councillors just 8 if I remember correctly.
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Lets remember it is the Labour and the Liberal Democrats that (being in control of the council) have decided that the education of chidden is of so little importance that they are not willing to use a tent (for example) in the car park instead of closing the school.
I know that it is the “Counting Officer” not the Labour and the Liberal Democrats that legally decides, but the councillor clearly don’t care enough to use their powers as the “Counting Officer” employer.
If need be tempory fences like used on building sites could be used to separate the children from the public.
I suspect the officers would politely listen to the Councillors and then dutifully ignore them.
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Nothing new - they've been closing schools on polling day in Marple forever. When I was a little girl we used to look forward to polling day. Sadly, by the time I was a teacher (not in Marple) the powers that be didn't close secondary schools.
Seriously though, why can't "they" put the voting caravan on the school car park. That's what happens on Buxton Lane (and it used to happen when the college was on Hibbert Lane).
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Nothing new - they've been closing schools on polling day in Marple forever. When I was a little girl we used to look forward to polling day. Sadly, by the time I was a teacher (not in Marple) the powers that be didn't close secondary schools.
My primary school was also a polling station. And yes, it was great. Less for my parents. And even worse for those schools that still have to shut, who will now have closed three times in one year.