Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: admin on February 25, 2019, 12:45:31 PM
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War Memorial and Carver Plaque rescued from Albert Schools
The Marple Website is pleased to have been able to rescue two historic plaques from the Albert Schools building due for demolition soon. These include a previously unrecorded WWI War Memorial and a lost plaque commemorating Thomas and Hannah Carver from 1911. Read more on the main site:
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools-html.html
(https://www.marple.website/images/war-memorial-after-cleaning.jpg)
(https://www.marple.website/images/carver-plaque-after-cleaning.jpg)
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Is the floor near the cupboard tiled some of that should be saved even if its only a couple of foot square it could be mounted some were .
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Mark, are these Marple people? I don't recognise some of the names. If they are Marple why weren't they recorded on the main memorial?
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Mark, are these Marple people? I don't recognise some of the names. If they are Marple why weren't they recorded on the main memorial?
Hi @tigerman if you read the linked article fully you will find that seven of the eight men are on the war memorial in the park and there is an explanation about what we have learned regarding the chap who isn't, which is Marmaduke Cooper. All the others are on our war memorial and the time-line. Several of them also appear on All Saints, and on other local rolls of honour.
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools-html.html
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Interesting stuff. Seems strange they didn't take them with them when the church vacated the property. But then our attitudes to conservation and history have changed over the years. And I know that when the church I used to go to as a child closed recently, they left pretty much everything like that inside and locked the doors!
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Ooops missed the link. Read it now.
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Not sure about the "E & E Workwear, the company that has used the building for their business since the late 1950s" I was a Girl Guide in the 1960s and we were invited to a Boy Scouts "do" held upstairs at the Albert School in the mid '60s. It wasn't a factory then.
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Not sure about the "E & E Workwear, the company that has used the building for their business since the late 1950s" I was a Girl Guide in the 1960s and we were invited to a Boy Scouts "do" held upstairs at the Albert School in the mid '60s. It wasn't a factory then.
My source for that is the Marple Local History Society article here: https://www.marplelocalhistorysociety.org.uk/our-local-heritage/407-albert-schools-heritage.html
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Interesting stuff. Seems strange they didn't take them with them when the church vacated the property. But then our attitudes to conservation and history have changed over the years. And I know that when the church I used to go to as a child closed recently, they left pretty much everything like that inside and locked the doors!
Sadly, the world is still full of philistines. Market Street is a case in point. One of the few things we can thank Hitler for is the reprieve for the Bulls Head terrace, built in the year of the battle of Trafalgar (1805), which had been condemned for slum clearance in the 1930s. Sadly, the philistines have made a horrendous mess of their cheap and nasty "modernisations" of many of the old Victorian shopfronts on Market Street.
And don't get me started on the iron and glass verandah on the row where "All Things Nice" is now! It was demolished because some idiot persuaded the council that it was dangerous. The foreman on the works told my father that the thing was so sound and strongly built that they thought at one stage of the works that they would cause serious damage to the buildings if they continued the demolition!
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Sadly, the world is still full of philistines. Market Street is a case in point. One of the few things we can thank Hitler for is the reprieve for the Bulls Head terrace, built in the year of the battle of Trafalgar (1805), which had been condemned for slum clearance in the 1930s. Sadly, the philistines have made a horrendous mess of their cheap and nasty "modernisations" of many of the old Victorian shopfronts on Market Street.
And don't get me started on the iron and glass verandah on the row where "All Things Nice" is now! It was demolished because some idiot persuaded the council that it was dangerous. The foreman on the works told my father that the thing was so sound and strongly built that they thought at one stage of the works that they would cause serious damage to the buildings if they continued the demolition!
Its called Health safety as well
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Not sure about the "E & E Workwear, the company that has used the building for their business since the late 1950s" I was a Girl Guide in the 1960s and we were invited to a Boy Scouts "do" held upstairs at the Albert School in the mid '60s. It wasn't a factory then.
I've asked MLHS if they can verify the date/decade that the Albert Schools was sold to E&E Overalls.
In the meantime, another theory put forward by Edmund Wilkinson is developing that the plaques may have originally hung in the Union Rooms Mission Church (now the cinema) and were removed to the cupboard in the Albert Schools when the building was converted to the cinema in 1931 (I believe). This theory seems to have some credibility when you look at the details we know about the men listed but not sure that it can ever be proven:
John Brown 44828 enlisted Hyde, 27 years old when killed 29/4/17
Lived 104 Hilldrop Terrace, Stockport Rd
Worked at Hollins Mill
Attended Marple Wesleyan Sunday School (is that the Methodist Church now?)
Attended Marple Union Rooms Mission Church
Remembered on Marple Methodist Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Joseph Burrell 24578 enlisted Hyde, 18 years old when killed 25/9/16
Lived Hollins Side, Stockport Rd
Worked at Hollins Mill
Attended Marple Unitarian Church and Sunday School (is that another name for what is now the URC?)
Remembered on Marple Reformed Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Harold Cooke 44060 Enlisted Chester, 19 years old when killed 2/9/18
Lived 18 Hollins Terrace
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Marmaduke Cooper, 50238, 35 years old when killed 25/3/18
Though to have lived in Marple around 1909 when daughter Olive was born.
Worked as an "assistant superintendent - insurance"
Burt Morris, 50473, enlisted Stockport, 21 years old when killed 7/6/17
Lived "Canal Buildings"
Worked at Hollins Mill
Attended Union Rooms Sunday School
Remembered St. Martin's Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Fred Pickford, 76896, enlisted Stockport, 22 years old when killed 25/10/18
Lived 46 Market Street
Attended Marple Recreation Club
Attended Marple Union Mission Church and Sunday School
Remembered on Carver Recreation Club Roll of Honour
Remembered on Marple Methodist Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Note: Fred's brother Raymond (age 24 when killed 8/10/18) was a member of Marple Band, attended Albert Day School as a boy and All Saints' Sunday School.
Fred Thelwall, 34742, enlisted Hyde, 23 years old when killed 28/7/16
Lived 9 Chapel St
Worked at Hollins Mill
Attended Marple Congregational Church Sunday School
Remembered on Marple Reformed Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
Samuel Thelwall, 26454, enlisted Hyde, 20 years old when killed 25/10/17
Lived 29 St James Terrace, Hollins Lane
Remembered on Marple Reformed Church plaque
Remembered on All Saints WM
Remembered on Marple WM
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The article about the plaques rescued from the Albert Schools earlier this year has been updated with latest news.
It has been established that the War Memorial Plaque originally came from the Union Rooms (now the Regent Cinema). We know this as it is listed on a hand-written schedule of items transferred to the school in 1931. Maybe the other plaque was with it too but it isn't mentioned on the note.
A new location for the plaques to be permanently displayed has been agreed with the Marple United Reformed Church on Hibbert Lane, which of course also has strong links to the Carver family.
Attempts to find a stone mason prepared to quote for refurbishing the plaques has so far failed miserably, so an application has been submitted to the Repair Shop. Wouldn't that be exciting! If we don't hear back by the time the weather improves next spring then we'll have to resort to DIY!
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools-html.html
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Restoration of Albert Schools Plaques underway!
Many projects have been moved to the back-burner thanks to Covid-19 but it's not all bad news.
The restoration and relocation of the historic plaques rescued from the cupboard under the stairs in the Albert Schools in February last year has been on hold for some time.
A new location was agreed with the Church Elders at the United Reformed Church on Hibbert Lane some time ago but a prolonged search to find a stonemason willing to help restore the plaques has been unsuccessful.
In December last year an application was submitted to the BBC's Repair Shop but with no response from the producers and the new series starting last week, that was obviously unsuccessful too.
Being confined to barracks and with the sun out, it seems an ideal time to take a look at DIY.
After research using YouTube, restoration work on the Carver Plaque was begun yesterday.
The two plaques are very different from each other – the Carver one has recessed engraved lettering filled with paint, although not a lot was left after initial cleaning last year. Despite being found underneath the other one there is no significant physical damage to this plaque and it seems the easiest one to start on.
The first step was to remove all the remaining loose paint from the lettering and then give everything a good clean-up. This was very successful and the plaque is looking much better already.
Black enamel paint has been ordered, along with a bag of cuttlefish. The reason for the latter will be revealed later (or you can research too if you can't wait). Once these arrive the next step will be to trial repainting of the letters. Conveniently there is some lettering on the bottom of the plaque (A. Frith, who I assume was the maker) that can be used to test the process. If this is successful the full lettering will be attempted.
Each of the plaques are mounted on a large slate backing slab. Some slate restorer and sealer has been ordered too.
The War Memorial Plaque has more problems. Although it looks pretty good after the initial clean-up last year, the big issue is that the component parts have separated. Hope to take a closer look at this today and I will post updates as the work progresses.
As found:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET8VOfJXYAE06ba?format=jpg&name=large)
Progress yesterday:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET8VSuKWkAAKPKU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET8VUL9XgAAOcYa?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET8VV1UX0AIhNqR?format=jpg&name=large)
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Really good job done there.
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That looks great. Might as well use the enforced social-separation time to do something useful!
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Refurbishment of the Union Rooms War Memorial Plaque now started too!
Thank you for the comments. I'm looking forward to painting the lettering and reconditioning the slate on that one.
In the meantime, I've cleared the table so I can have a proper look at the War Memorial plaque. This was in a shocking state when it was discovered, as the photos show.
It looked remarkably good after the first clean-up but, as mentioned earlier, the main problem with this one is that it is broken into three main sections: the top section featuring the dates 1914 - 1918; the main body with the names on, and the backing slate. The latter also has a large chunk missing from it (see photo).
With regard to the slate backing, I feel that the missing section should probably be left as it is - with the big chunk out of it - because it is now part of its history. Any thoughts on that?
As for joining the three sections back together, I am fortunate to provide a web site to a gentleman from Buxton called Tony Grimes who has a Royal Warrant to supply epoxy resins to the Queen (http://www.benring.co.uk/) no less! I shall be getting onto him next to see what his thoughts are.
As discovered in the under-stair cupboard at Albert Schools:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET9j5GRXkAExPL-?format=jpg&name=large)
After initial cleaning:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET9j71cX0AAo6Ae?format=jpg&name=large)
The component parts that need to be reassembled:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET9j9ZiXYAgAPjN?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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Progress update: Trial repainting of letters
Bit of progress on the Carver Plaque - have done a trial of filling the letters on the bottom of the plaque with paint and then using cuttlefish as a mild abrasive to remove surplus paint from the flat surface, just leaving it in the recessed letters. Seems to work quite well, although the cuttlefish doesn't last long. Well enough to try a small section of the front lettering anyway.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EURo8InXYAA4kNt?format=jpg&name=large)
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Cracked it! More progress on Carver Memorial Plaque at last!
Despite the success of the trial on the lettering at the bottom of the Carver Plaque using cuttlefish as a mild abrasive, when I tried this on the front lettering it was a bit of a nightmare. Fortunately I only did a small area as it took hours to get the surplus paint off.
So it was back to the drawing board; a variety of Youtube tutorials have been watched and a number of unsuccessful experiments undertaken. I'm pleased to advise that I eventually found a technique I was happy with and the video below charts the process, using a soap stone as the abrasive to clean off surplus paint.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVVa-9UXkAE4yEa?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
This means that the back is broken on the work needed on the Carver Plaque, and all that is left to do is treat the grey slate backing stone.
https://youtu.be/b6NlDvd7-f8 (https://youtu.be/b6NlDvd7-f8)
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Carver Plaque Restoration Completed
So, feeling pretty chuffed that following several coats of stone colour restorer to the slate backing slab the Carver Plaque restoration is now complete.
I'm delighted with the result.......... What do you think?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVfk6raXkAcCCTs?format=jpg&name=large)
On to the big challenge with the War Memorial
As mentioned before, the three components of the War Memorial Plaque have become separated. They were originally stuck together with a plaster-of-Paris like substance but they cracked and separated when the memorial was unceremoniously dumped in the cupboard under the stairs in the Albert Schools c1931.
The two marble components have been cleaned up of residual plaster and are in pretty good nick. They just need a final clean and polish and will then be ready for reassembly.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVfk-iRXYAE72Ud?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVflBYQXYAM8eok?format=jpg&name=large)
The problem is the backing slate, which has a big lump missing from one edge. My first thought was to leave this as it is - treat the damage as part of its history - and I can still do that. However, the idea of cutting a section out of the centre of the stone to use to repair the damaged corner has taken root in my head and I want to see if this has legs.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVflC0cXgAEjote?format=jpg&name=large)
So I'm now seeking the help of someone who may be able to do this for me. I'm looking for someone - maybe a granite worktop supplier or a stone flooring specialist, or even a stone mason (although I've done that to death) - who can do this. I'm looking for someone who's very confident too, not who just thinks they might be able to.
So, could you, or do you know someone who could cut out the red rectangle and use it to repair the green corner? If so, I'd love to talk to you!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVfnIrnX0AEFjPC?format=jpg&name=large)
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Credit to you well done .
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Outstanding. Really well done.
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War Memorial Plaque now installed in the United Reformed Church on Hibbert Lane
No doubt you've been wondering how this project was progressing since the last update.
Unfortunately I had a serious set-back with the refurbishment of the War Memorial plaque when trying to remove one of the studs from the backing slab. The slate slab, which was already badly damaged with a large chunk missing, fractured across its full width and was suddenly beyond repair. I looked at getting a replacement made in either slate or granite but it was incredibly expensive. Coupled with that was the issue of weight. When fully assembled the plaque could barely be lifted by two people. So in the end I decided to make a much lighter replica backing slab from MDF.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnQTjW5WEAEar3h?format=jpg&name=large)
My helpful friend Tony Grimes of Benring Ltd - supplier of epoxy resins to HM the Queen no less (https://www.benring.co.uk/) - provided me with a free supply of his Bencon 40 resin that I was able to use to bond the two sections of the plaque to the new backing slab. It worked very well and made the whole assembly much easier to lift, even though it remains incredibly heavy.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnQTgwzXUAMcDhl?format=jpg&name=large)
B&Q mixed me some paint that was a very close match to the colour of the slate slab on the Carver plaque after refurbishment and cleaning.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnQTeCKXMAEZ0LP?format=jpg&name=large)
This just left working out how to install this very heavy item in the church. So the next step was to visit with a couple of full size mock-ups of the two plaques and determine exactly where they should go and how they would be fixed. I agreed with the Church Warden that due to the weight of the War Memorial it would be best if it rested on the large skirting board in the church. Once this was decided brackets were added to keep it in place and it was finally successfully installed yesterday.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnQTa-zWMAYxN3r?format=jpg&name=large)
Next steps
We want to install the smaller Carver plaque, which is already fully restored, on the left hand side below the window but raised up so that the tops of the two plaques are at the same level. So I've now got to work out the best way to do that. This plaque, which is a substantial weight too, actually has a recessed hole in the back meant for hanging. So I will be investigating if it will be possible to utilise that safely and securely.
After that I'd like to create a smaller plaque to mount between and above them that explains their story and how they came to be in their new location.
A reminder of the condition the War Memorial plaque was found under the stairs at the Albert Schools before demolition....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET9j5GRXkAExPL-?format=jpg&name=large)
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What a great job, Mark. Outstanding.
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What a great job, Mark. Outstanding.
Thank you for the encouragement Howard!
Carver Plaque now also installed in the United Reformed Church on Hibbert Lane
Very pleased to finally get the Carver Plaque installed in the URC Church a couple of days before the 2020 Christmas Day Service. It's great that both plaques are now on display in their new permanent home. It is certainly a fitting location as this church was also built by Thomas Carver and he was a founder and Deacon there too, as well as the Union Rooms where the plaques originate from.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2uIVZW4AcI5Pp?format=jpg&name=large)
The cost of materials to refurbish both plaques has come to £120, which has been funded from the Marple Website's advertising income.
After Christmas, in early 2021, it is proposed to create a smaller plaque to go with them that will explain the story of how they got there.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2uKPKXUAE3Tbu?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2uNzhXIAUH3Vj?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ep2uPalXIAUpBGA?format=jpg&name=medium)
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WOW lovely well done!
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That looks terrific Mark - well done indeed!
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Excellent job well done
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Albert Schools WWI Plaque featured on Imperial War Museum web site:
How about that! Rescue of the Albert Schools plaques is now featured on the Imperial War Museum's "Mapping the Centenary" web site, along with 3 of Friends of Memorial Park's projects too:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/partnerships/mapping-the-centenary/projects/world-war-one-memorial-in-albert-schools-marple
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Marmaduke Cooper's Story
Thanks to "Lest We Forget" Hollingworth and author Tony Catchpole we can now tell the stories of all eight men named on the Union Rooms Mission Church war memorial rescued from the Albert Schools building in 2019. This separate page has been created to bring their stories together and now includes Marmaduke Cooper, the only man not named on Marple's main War Memorial.
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools-html/names-on-wwi-plaque.html (https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools-html/names-on-wwi-plaque.html)
(https://www.marple.website/images/marmaduke-cooper-and-family.jpg)
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Final Update April 2021: project to relocate Albert Schools Memorial is finished
Following installation of a brass plaque, paid for by the United Reformed Church, the project to rescue the two memorials found under the stairs at the Albert Schools is now finally complete. It has been very rewarding to be able to tackle this matter during lock-down and get it completed in such a hands-on way. The brass plaque tells the story of the memorials' origins and how they came to be sited in their new home and why it is fitting. It also thanks everyone who has helped along the way:
(https://www.marple.website/images/banners/brass-plaque.jpg)
(https://www.marple.website/images/memorials-in-urc.jpg)
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools.html
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Final Update April 2021: project to relocate Albert Schools Memorial is finished
Following installation of a brass plaque, paid for by the United Reformed Church, the project to rescue the two memorials found under the stairs at the Albert Schools is now finally complete. It has been very rewarding to be able to tackle this matter during lock-down and get it completed in such a hands-on way. The brass plaque tells the story of the memorials' origins and how they came to be sited in their new home and why it is fitting. It also thanks everyone who has helped along the way:
(https://www.marple.website/images/banners/brass-plaque.jpg)
(https://www.marple.website/images/memorials-in-urc.jpg)
https://www.marple.website/community-projects/memorials-rescued-from-albert-schools.html
Well done mark it looks exellent .