Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Topic started by: Carolyn Leather on September 02, 2018, 02:52:58 PM

Title: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Carolyn Leather on September 02, 2018, 02:52:58 PM
There are many excellent ideas in the SEMMS refresh, which if implemented, would decrease car dependency and enable us to lower our carbon footprint.  We are facing a climate change emergency, and the many excellent suggestions for improved public transport and cycling and walking networks are to be applauded.  Unfortunately, the A6-M60 bypass, if built, would increase car dependency and destroy precious green spaces. 

Please sign and share the following petition asking our councillors to remove the bypass from the SEMMS refresh document:

https://www.change.org/p/stockport-council-remove-the-a6-m60-bypass-from-semmms-refresh-end-the-threat-to-our-valleys-and-fields?recruiter=48881338&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 02, 2018, 07:18:59 PM
There are many excellent ideas in the SEMMS refresh, which if implemented, would decrease car dependency and enable us to lower our carbon footprint.  We are facing a climate change emergency, and the many excellent suggestions for improved public transport and cycling and walking networks are to be applauded.  Unfortunately, the A6-M60 bypass, if built, would increase car dependency and destroy precious green spaces. 

Please sign and share the following petition asking our councillors to remove the bypass from the SEMMS refresh document:

https://www.change.org/p/stockport-council-remove-the-a6-m60-bypass-from-semmms-refresh-end-the-threat-to-our-valleys-and-fields?recruiter=48881338&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
Do not sign the petition to remove the bypass from the SEMMS refresh document .we need a bypass in fact ask our councillors to get there fingers out and get on with it .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Cyberman on September 02, 2018, 07:59:59 PM
Sign the petition. Carolyn is absolutely right.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Condate on September 02, 2018, 09:03:40 PM
There are many excellent ideas in the SEMMS refresh, which if implemented, would decrease car dependency and enable us to lower our carbon footprint.  We are facing a climate change emergency, and the many excellent suggestions for improved public transport and cycling and walking networks are to be applauded.  Unfortunately, the A6-M60 bypass, if built, would increase car dependency and destroy precious green spaces. 

Please sign and share the following petition asking our councillors to remove the bypass from the SEMMS refresh document:

https://www.change.org/p/stockport-council-remove-the-a6-m60-bypass-from-semmms-refresh-end-the-threat-to-our-valleys-and-fields?recruiter=48881338&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

I hope there is a counter-petition to ask that councillors to insist on the bypass. I'd sign that.

Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 02, 2018, 10:01:32 PM
Sign the petition. Carolyn is absolutely right.
Bluebells or bypass
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Carolyn Leather on September 02, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
The phenomenon of induced traffic is well documented.  The bypass will not solve our traffic problems, and even those who advocate it admit that there would need to be  a High Lane/Disley bypass built as well to see any impact of the A6-M60 bypass.

We could argue all day about whether the bypass would solve our traffic problems.  There is plenty of evidence I could quote about induced traffic, but I'm sure many of us contributing to discussions on here are of an age where they have seen major roads built in their lifetimes - M60, A34 etc.  We know from our lived experience that these roads have only made traffic worse.  Building more roads is not the answer to our traffic problems.

 
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Henry_ on September 03, 2018, 01:29:00 PM
I would also sign a counter petition. The requirement for this road is the most important local issue and has been for decades. It should have been built ages ago.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: nbt on September 03, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Signed the petition. We cannot simply continue building roads "to relieve the traffic pressure". We need viable alternatives, not more roads
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 03, 2018, 04:31:58 PM
Signed the petition. We cannot simply continue building roads "to relieve the traffic pressure". We need viable alternatives, not more roads

No one has yet come up with "Viable" alternatives. A cycle lane, some extra buses and a couple of trams won't even scratch the surface. Our dependence on cars and therefore roads is much deeper than a few folks trying to get to work and it's here to stay whether we like it or not. Crippling that system because of some kind of transport ideology will cause unmitigated collateral damage.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 03, 2018, 04:39:09 PM
Signed the petition. We cannot simply continue building roads "to relieve the traffic pressure". We need viable alternatives, not more roads
So whats your solution .you wont have one
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Henry_ on September 03, 2018, 05:15:00 PM
The traffic gridlock on Bents Lane and Marple Road has been shocking for as long as I can remember - 30+ years. This is not a new phenomenon and the poor residents of those areas have been suffering for so long they're probably resigned to putting up with it. I have met many people who used to live in Marple through work and the very first thing they always remark on, without exception, is how bad the traffic is. These are people who have to commute by car to different locations, and for whom public transport is rarely an option. It is often the main reason why they left the area.

New roads do improve traffic flow. The evidence / experience of this is obvious. Getting North to Ashton / Oldham / Rochdale / Bury etc is so much easier than before the M60 extension was completed. Journey times have been slashed provided you can get out of Bredbury. It's easy to forget how bad things were before the M60 was finished about 18 years ago. Go to Ashton Moss now for the cinema in the evening and you're looking at a 15 minute trip - it's fantastic. The M6 toll around Birmingham drives like a dream, especially compared to the old alternative. The new road to the airport should be similarly beneficial. It currently takes me an hour to get there in the morning which is patently ridiculous and simply unacceptable.

There will be objectors, there always are, but this road is long overdue.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Melancholyflower on September 03, 2018, 08:12:55 PM
Signed for what it's worth.

Other public transport solutions are essential, building a new road will just lead to more traffic, more noise, and less countryside.

Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 03, 2018, 08:46:28 PM
Signed for what it's worth.

Other public transport solutions are essential, building a new road will just lead to more traffic, more noise, and less countryside.
Your solution to not having the Bredbury bypass .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 04, 2018, 10:49:35 AM
So whats your solution .you wont have one

build the frickin' A6/M60 bypass. Henry's comments are spot on!
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Will L on September 04, 2018, 11:59:15 PM
Well,

Honestly Trams won't work Marple isn't a feasible option there unfortunately without significant redesign. Even if they did we're looking at many years before they were to reach here. Then we take the rail option, again we'd need to actually see some iron political will to see it done as well as the money to approve it and that would take many years going off the progress of the electrification of the Manchester-Sheffield Line. Cycle routes are like trams, you want it done properly you'll need significant redesign and spending from the Council or TFGM. The Council is restricting spending year on year, and I haven't heard much from Burnham other than the proposing housing but nothing to solidly back that up.

Get it over with, let the road be finished up because seriously they're no longer other options that feasibly are going to make a difference.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 05, 2018, 08:52:38 AM
Signed for what it's worth.

Other public transport solutions are essential, building a new road will just lead to more traffic, more noise, and less countryside.

Where you WILL se more traffic, noise and pollution is when the Airport/A6 bypass opens and hoards of lorries and delivery vans start to drop off the new bypass in Hazel Grove and use Torkington Lane & Windlehurst to get through to the M60 via Bredbury. Folks will be crying out for a bypass then!
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 05, 2018, 11:19:06 AM
Where you WILL se more traffic, noise and pollution is when the Airport/A6 bypass opens and hoards of lorries and delivery vans start to drop off the new bypass in Hazel Grove and use Torkington Lane & Windlehurst to get through to the M60 via Bredbury. Folks will be crying out for a bypass then!
Like your comments jimblob .notice the two people that objected to the bypass have not come back with alternative proposal .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: nbt on September 05, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Problem is you can't deal with "this problem" in isolation. How much money is being spent on new roads? If you stopped road building and put that money into viable alternatives, then we'd be on the way. however while the uk is still being run by people who believe that the car is king and that free enterprise should come before any "bleeding heart ecological nonsense", you will continue to get new roads

Not spending £480 million on a bypass would go a LONG way towards a better alternative...
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 05, 2018, 03:36:58 PM
Problem is you can't deal with "this problem" in isolation. How much money is being spent on new roads? If you stopped road building and put that money into viable alternatives, then we'd be on the way. however while the uk is still being run by people who believe that the car is king and that free enterprise should come before any "bleeding heart ecological nonsense", you will continue to get new roads

Not spending £480 million on a bypass would go a LONG way towards a better alternative...
£480M or any amount of money for that matter can't reverse how the nation has evolved since the industrial revolution, how our cities and suburbs are physically placed in relation to each other, how industry has changed, how and where we are employed has changed, how our shopping and leisure activities have changed and how our economy runs. Unless we all adopt the same lifestyle as The Amish and shun the 21st century or have a world war which destroys our living environment to the extent that it has to be rebuilt I really don't see a viable alternative. The concept that roads and therefore cars are bad surely needs to change. Cleaner, quieter, more economical and less polluting vehicles ARE viable and we should certainly embrace that; but getting rid of them or trying to make their use prohibitive without a proven and embedded alternative in place would economical suicide.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Carolyn Leather on September 05, 2018, 03:48:38 PM
I don't think anyone is saying we need to abandon cars altogether, we just need to make the alternatives much more attractive for people to use.

This article about climate change is worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 05, 2018, 07:16:33 PM
I don't think anyone is saying we need to abandon cars altogether, we just need to make the alternatives much more attractive for people to use.

This article about climate change is worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention

and therein lies the challenge, "making the alternatives much more attractive for people to use"... the current trend seems only to make cars and roads less attractive and no one seems to be coming up with a way to make your suggestions MORE attractive.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 05, 2018, 08:45:11 PM
Problem is you can't deal with "this problem" in isolation. How much money is being spent on new roads? If you stopped road building and put that money into viable alternatives, then we'd be on the way. however while the uk is still being run by people who believe that the car is king and that free enterprise should come before any "bleeding heart ecological nonsense", you will continue to get new roads

Not spending £480 million on a bypass would go a LONG way towards a better alternative...
Which is
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Melancholyflower on September 05, 2018, 08:48:48 PM
Like your comments jimblob .notice the two people that objected to the bypass have not come back with alternative proposal .

Wow I'd best be quicker, otherwise I'll lose the argument!

The solutions are simply less use of the car by everybody, combined with more public transport being made available, chiefly rail, as it doesn't clog the roads up. Both are a change of mindset and longer-term planning, so I don't hold out much hope from the public or from politicians. At least Steve Gribbon is trying to drum up support for a railway.

You should consider what will be achieved by building a "relief" road costing 500 million (add the usual interest and contractor delays and imagine how much more that might be) and destroying miles of countryside which we won't get back. 

The M60 is a result of a succession of tacked-on "relief" roads designed to take traffic away from local areas around Greater Manchester which were eventually all joined up.   It was full to capacity in some areas as soon as it was opened.  Road begets road.

An earlier contributor talks about decades of bad traffic in Bents Lane and Marple Road. There used to be a perfectly serviceable railway line linking Marple and Romiley with Stockport (Tiviot Dale station) that could have been a much-needed alternative had it existed today. Instead it was built over by, er, the M60.

That shouldn't deter us from looking at other alternatives, such as re-routing one of the existing lines to Stockport via Belle Vue for example, or re-tracking the Middlewood Way up to Middlewood to join up with the Hazel Grove route. 500 million might go along nicely towards either.

Once rail networks expand and improve, it might persuade people to stop using their cars more, which is also vital. 
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Condate on September 06, 2018, 09:23:46 AM
Like your comments jimblob .notice the two people that objected to the bypass have not come back with alternative proposal .

Any alternatives should make clear that what those who disapprove of new roads actually want is to restrict the freedom to travel in a  convenient way or in some cases to travel at all. There are many journeys which can only be made by public transport with great inconvenience in terms of travel time and duration (and a good many not possible at all) and this will be the case even with the best public transport system imaginable.

With a car, we are used to being able to make journeys whenever we need to with a reasonable time taken, even with traffic jams. On a bus the journey may take twice as long if you are lucky, because you are limited by the timetable and it is not always possible to do that when you are constrained by having to be elsewhere at a specific time.

There are many journeys which will be impractical by public transport because you will need multiple changes or no bus goes within several miles of where you want to go. I did not get a car until I was 36. Until then I only used public transport. Once I got a car I was able to go to many quite near places I had not been to before including some which were in theory accessible by public transport but in practice not so. I did not appreciate the freedom having a car brings until I got one. It is that freedom which is under threat from those who advocate reducing car usage.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 06, 2018, 10:24:39 AM
Wow I'd best be quicker, otherwise I'll lose the argument!

The solutions are simply less use of the car by everybody, combined with more public transport being made available, chiefly rail, as it doesn't clog the roads up. Both are a change of mindset and longer-term planning, so I don't hold out much hope from the public or from politicians. At least Steve Gribbon is trying to drum up support for a railway.

You should consider what will be achieved by building a "relief" road costing 500 million (add the usual interest and contractor delays and imagine how much more that might be) and destroying miles of countryside which we won't get back. 

The M60 is a result of a succession of tacked-on "relief" roads designed to take traffic away from local areas around Greater Manchester which were eventually all joined up.   It was full to capacity in some areas as soon as it was opened.  Road begets road.

An earlier contributor talks about decades of bad traffic in Bents Lane and Marple Road. There used to be a perfectly serviceable railway line linking Marple and Romiley with Stockport (Tiviot Dale station) that could have been a much-needed alternative had it existed today. Instead it was built over by, er, the M60.

That shouldn't deter us from looking at other alternatives, such as re-routing one of the existing lines to Stockport via Belle Vue for example, or re-tracking the Middlewood Way up to Middlewood to join up with the Hazel Grove route. 500 million might go along nicely towards either.

Once rail networks expand and improve, it might persuade people to stop using their cars more, which is also vital.
All that would cost more than building the bypass what about all the lories that clog bredbury up in a morning . are they going by train .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 06, 2018, 10:34:26 AM
Melancholyflower...
So I live in Marple near Rose Hill station and I'd like to go to Morrison's in Bredbury for my weekly shop. Whilst I'm over there I'll call at the new Screwfix and pick up some new guttering for my house renovations. In the car it'll take me an hour all in, maybe a little longer because the traffic on Dooley Lane/Otterspool Road will be bad (as it has been for 30+ years, that road would be so much quieter if there was a bypass!). Ahh, but there's a train that can get me over to Romiley now via Tiviot Dale Station from Marple Station that they've just spent £500m reopening, instead of building a bypass. I'll walk up to Marple Station and take the train, walk the 2 miles from the station to Morrisons, then pop into Screwfix and collect the guttering, (carrying my weekly shop) and then drag myself back to the station with shopping and guttering and wait for the train back. Then walk back from Marple Station to my house, again carrying all my shopping.... Oh silly me, there's that new cycle lane, I'll take the bike! .....  by the time I get home the weekend will be over, my frozen food will have thawed and I'll be fit for nothing.
Make cars cleaner, quieter and more economical and build the roads we need (but DO include a proper segregated cycle lane along the road, or maybe even a tramway as well). but please please please, get real!
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: The Canonball Kid on September 06, 2018, 01:31:34 PM
Melancholyflower...
So I live in Marple near Rose Hill station and I'd like to go to Morrison's in Bredbury for my weekly shop. Whilst I'm over there I'll call at the new Screwfix and pick up some new guttering for my house renovations. In the car it'll take me an hour all in, maybe a little longer because the traffic on Dooley Lane/Otterspool Road will be bad (as it has been for 30+ years, that road would be so much quieter if there was a bypass!). Ahh, but there's a train that can get me over to Romiley now via Tiviot Dale Station from Marple Station that they've just spent £500m reopening, instead of building a bypass. I'll walk up to Marple Station and take the train, walk the 2 miles from the station to Morrisons, then pop into Screwfix and collect the guttering, (carrying my weekly shop) and then drag myself back to the station with shopping and guttering and wait for the train back. Then walk back from Marple Station to my house, again carrying all my shopping.... Oh silly me, there's that new cycle lane, I'll take the bike! .....  by the time I get home the weekend will be over, my frozen food will have thawed and I'll be fit for nothing.
Make cars cleaner, quieter and more economical and build the roads we need (but DO include a proper segregated cycle lane along the road, or maybe even a tramway as well). but please please please, get real!


Then you realise you forgot the gutter brackets !
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 06, 2018, 04:20:04 PM

Then you realise you forgot the gutter brackets !

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
I needed an extra 92.5 degree elbow so did have to go back!
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: andrewbowden on September 06, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
Thing with public transport is, make it good and they will come.  Within a few years of opening the first Metrolink service accounted for something like 45% of all rail travel in Manchester.  Why?  Because it's frequent.  The original London Overground network was a collection of railway lines successive people wanted to close down.  Transport for London took it on, increased the frequency of services and bamm!  They are struggling with capacity.  The trains have gone from three carriages to five.  And it's not enough.

It's not about car Vs public transport.  It's about making public transport work so well that people want to leave their cars at home.  Or maybe not even have a car.  I lived for 16 years in London without a car.

There will always be journeys easier done with a car.  But if you make public transport good, you can get people out of their cars.  It's not a pipe dream.  It's not impossible.  Because it is done in the UK everyday.

But until our public transport is better the car will be supreme.  Until our government takes public transport seriously, the car will be supreme.  Especially here.

Written from the top deck of the 383 from Stockport.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Steve Gribbon on September 07, 2018, 09:07:31 AM

The solutions are simply less use of the car by everybody, combined with more public transport being made available, chiefly rail, as it doesn't clog the roads up. Both are a change of mindset and longer-term planning, so I don't hold out much hope from the public or from politicians. At least Steve Gribbon is trying to drum up support for a railway.


Good morning

Thanks for the reference on this point, I’m off to a TfGM meeting at the moment and will be raising this issue, I’m still pushing for a rail link to be correctly researched and will continue to do so. I like to thought of a spur on the Reddish line to go into Stockport, not just for us but for residents of New Mills and others along our present track.
I accept everyone has a different opinion about what is needed and respect all comments. Personally I feel not having a Stockport rail link is both unfair compared to many other small towns and not having this option has obvious negative effects on traffic volume and the environment.

Kind regards

Steve
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 07, 2018, 09:19:19 AM
I totally agree with Andrewbowden. "It's about making public transport work so well that people want to leave their cars at home". I work every week in Aberdeen and don't use or need a car there because the public transport there is so much better than at home. The worst part of my commute is getting to and from Manchester Airport, despite living so close, it's over an hour via public transport! If I'm dropped off by car, getting to the motorway is usually solid traffic and then the airport has the audacity to now charge to get dropped off there! It's ironic that I spend less time in total weekly commuting to Aberdeen on a Monday, back on a Friday and to my office there each day than my wife who works only in Cheadle Hulme!
When I travel to the Netherlands on business, I'm ashamed to be from the UK. Their transport and road systems put us to shame. They build plenty of bypasses, but they include segregated cycle lanes with them (and boy do they get used!) and there isn't a pothole in sight! They have a fantastic city centre tram system and their rail services are second to none. They pay higher taxes but those taxes are spent wisely rather than being frittered away on useless projects or used to wrap the less assertive parts of society in cotton wool. Obesity seems almost non-existent there too. In fact I wonder why I'm sat here writing this; I'd be better planning my move to the Netherlands.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: The Canonball Kid on September 07, 2018, 12:11:41 PM
" it's about making public transport work "

That's exactly the point , I don't use public transport that often but when I do  it always seems to be a bit of an ordeal and a disappointment.

 A couple of weeks ago my wife and I decided to have Groupon 1 night Manchester city centre break, on getting to Marple station on the outward journey I by chance saw a small notice stating that due to industrial action the train services the following day would be limited. As it turned out rather than have the planned day in Manchester we had to leave the city  the next morning to get one of the few trains running. This train terminated at Rose Hill not Marple, hence we had to walk ( we just missed the bus )with a small suitcase from Rosehill to Marple station where our car was parked.

The train out was I'm sure a hand me down from another rail line with an approximate 18" step up to it from the platform to the train carriage entrance. The train back was grubby and stank of urine.

A bad experience all round and I wish I had taken my car and paid silly money for parking. It's made me think twice about my means of getting to town in future.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Carolyn Leather on September 07, 2018, 12:30:04 PM
iF the A6-M60 bypass was built, the High Lane/Disley bypass would then have to follow.  With a High Lane/Disley bypass in situ, mass development in High Lane's Greenbelt will surely follow.  I suspect that this massive housing development is likely to mainly consist of executive detached houses and will do nothing to solve the housing crisis.  The High Lane bypass will quickly become full to capacity as the housing development becomes occupied. Huge areas of Greenbelt will have been destroyed for absolutely no good reason apart from to increase housing stock for people who already have housing options. 



Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: andrewbowden on September 07, 2018, 01:01:33 PM
iF the A6-M60 bypass was built, the High Lane/Disley bypass would then have to follow.  With a High Lane/Disley bypass in situ, mass development in High Lane's Greenbelt will surely follow.  I suspect that this massive housing development is likely to mainly consist of executive detached houses and will do nothing to solve the housing crisis.  The High Lane bypass will quickly become full to capacity as the housing development becomes occupied. Huge areas of Greenbelt will have been destroyed for absolutely no good reason apart from to increase housing stock for people who already have housing options.

That's a lot of assumptions.  Indeed, assumptions laid upon assumptions.

Yes there is absolutely a problem with housing.  And it's another thing the government doesn't want to tackle because of fear of upsetting people who might see their home values fall.  But there's no way to know - other than to watch - what would actually happen if the A60-M60 bypass was built.  Nothing is guaranteed.   Hey, just look at the M67.  That was built as part of a big plan to run a motorway from the heart of Manchester to Sheffield.  Yet it's just a runt of a motorway running between Denton and Mottram.  Situations changed.  Plans were abandoned. 
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Steve Gribbon on September 07, 2018, 01:21:38 PM
Good afternoon

I’ve just come out of the TfGM rail & metrolink (I’m on the committee for this group) meeting and I had a good discussion with a senior official for network rail. I’m pleased to say he has agreed to carry out a study into a potential heavy rail link into Stockport and we will be meeting to discuss further. These are very early steps into a process but the least I can do for us is see where this can go and whether something can be done.

As always I will update on here accordingly. Have a good weekend.

Kind regards

Steve

Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Carolyn Leather on September 07, 2018, 01:44:03 PM
P.69 of the SEMMS refresh document mentions the High Lane bypass.

https://consultation.stockport.gov.uk/planning/semmms/supporting_documents/SEMMMS%20Report.pdf

Options for train links from Marple to Stockport are mentioned earlier in the document. 
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 07, 2018, 02:16:07 PM

Then you realise you forgot the gutter brackets !Brillant good humour on this website.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 07, 2018, 02:23:36 PM
Good morning

Thanks for the reference on this point, I’m off to a TfGM meeting at the moment and will be raising this issue, I’m still pushing for a rail link to be correctly researched and will continue to do so. I like to thought of a spur on the Reddish line to go into Stockport, not just for us but for residents of New Mills and others along our present track.
I accept everyone has a different opinion about what is needed and respect all comments. Personally I feel not having a Stockport rail link is both unfair compared to many other small towns and not having this option has obvious negative effects on traffic volume and the environment.

Kind regards

Steve Steve you should be pushing for the bypass .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 07, 2018, 02:26:08 PM
iF the A6-M60 bypass was built, the High Lane/Disley bypass would then have to follow.  With a High Lane/Disley bypass in situ, mass development in High Lane's Greenbelt will surely follow.  I suspect that this massive housing development is likely to mainly consist of executive detached houses and will do nothing to solve the housing crisis.  The High Lane bypass will quickly become full to capacity as the housing development becomes occupied. Huge areas of Greenbelt will have been destroyed for absolutely no good reason apart from to increase housing stock for people who already have housing options.
And if the houses are built before the bypass what then .
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Steve Gribbon on September 07, 2018, 02:28:35 PM


Hi Amazon

I’m looking at everything, it’s only right I have a rounded view and knowledge on all the potential options available.

Kind regards

Steve
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: jimblob on September 07, 2018, 02:30:46 PM
P.69 of the SEMMS refresh document mentions the High Lane bypass.

https://consultation.stockport.gov.uk/planning/semmms/supporting_documents/SEMMMS%20Report.pdf

Options for train links from Marple to Stockport are mentioned earlier in the document.

I'm not sure anyone particularly wants to go to Stockport!....  ;D
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: amazon on September 07, 2018, 02:31:10 PM
Hi Amazon

I’m looking at everything, it’s only right I have a rounded view and knowledge on all the potential options available.

Kind regards

Steve
ok agree
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Harry on September 07, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
I'm not sure anyone particularly wants to go to Stockport!....  ;D

I'm sure that a lot of the traffic going to Stockport in the morning is going there to join the M60. Its just a route to avoid Bredbury.

Similarly for the return in the afternoon.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: rsh on September 08, 2018, 12:19:18 PM
So I live in Marple near Rose Hill station and I'd like to go to Morrison's in Bredbury for my weekly shop. Whilst I'm over there I'll call at the new Screwfix and pick up some new guttering for my house renovations.

Simple option: get both delivered. Then it’s only another stop on two single vans probably passing through the area anyway.

It’s exactly these kinds of relatively pointless, very local journeys we need to reduce being done by car - people driving the school run over tiny distances, going all the way into Stockport for a single item, ferrying themselves around the local area in a space-hogging metal box for no good reason and thinking they’ve a god given right to do so at the expense of causing traffic jams and turning local neighbourhoods into noisy, unpleasant mini hell on earths.

It never ceases to amaze me people moaning about driving somewhere and getting stuck in traffic: YOU are the traffic! At the same time, they’re taking roadspace from people who might need to drive a journey that genuinely can’t be catered for by transport, home delivery or using your own legs.

However, I can sadly agree that the A6-M60 road is needed and has been for decades (in fact far more than the relatively pointless A6-MARR), mostly just to remove the hell trailing through all local neighbourhoods to the M60 from the south east. I feel for the Goyt Valley SOS campaigners but equally think it selfish to expect Bredbury and Overton should continue being decimated as places by this traffic. The absolute key issue will be making sure the new road is somehow not used as a wider through north east/south west route avoiding the whole southern belt of the M60. All the traffic light junctions on the A6MARR might help put people off, but it could still easily be standstill from day one.

Finally, it’s also pretty bloody obvious that what should be funded before anything else as part of this “refresh” are improved public transport options. A tram/train to Stockport AND onward west to Manchester Airport. More frequent, new, 21st century trains to Manchester with more carriages. A Greater Manchester Oyster ticket system that actually works. Better bus services WITH integrated tickets so you can use ONE ticket or pay one fair price for a journey no matter who’s running it. And simple, cheap single fares of just something like £1.50 like in London, not the absolute rip-off of double that price we pay. It’s no wonder why buses are actually seen as a real transport choice down there unlike our Stagecoach profits-creaming monopoly.

If the A6-M60 road plan has been neglected, heck our local public transport hasn’t been touched for DECADES. Maybe it’s time we actually tried sorting that out and see how much roadspace can suddenly be freed up. So do all that, and then maybe get back onto the roads.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: Belly on September 09, 2018, 10:06:34 PM
Pretty much agree with everything that RSH has just said. Very well put.
Title: Re: SEMMS refresh- petition to remove A6-M60 bypass from plans
Post by: GeoffAbell on September 29, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
I totally agree with Andrewbowden. "It's about making public transport work so well that people want to leave their cars at home". I work every week in Aberdeen and don't use or need a car there because the public transport there is so much better than at home. The worst part of my commute is getting to and from Manchester Airport, despite living so close, it's over an hour via public transport! If I'm dropped off by car, getting to the motorway is usually solid traffic and then the airport has the audacity to now charge to get dropped off there! It's ironic that I spend less time in total weekly commuting to Aberdeen on a Monday, back on a Friday and to my office there each day than my wife who works only in Cheadle Hulme!
When I travel to the Netherlands on business, I'm ashamed to be from the UK. Their transport and road systems put us to shame. They build plenty of bypasses, but they include segregated cycle lanes with them (and boy do they get used!) and there isn't a pothole in sight! They have a fantastic city centre tram system and their rail services are second to none. They pay higher taxes but those taxes are spent wisely rather than being frittered away on useless projects or used to wrap the less assertive parts of society in cotton wool. Obesity seems almost non-existent there too. In fact I wonder why I'm sat here writing this; I'd be better planning my move to the Netherlands.

You are right @jimblob  - relatively cheap integrated transport is the key.  I was lucky enough to work in Amsterdam for a while before I was a cllr, and it was a good place to get around.  Many junctions automatically and easily deal with 4 modes of transport - vehicles, trams, cycles and walkers.  In fact, one of the problems is that there are so many cycles, they cannot be taken on commuter trains, unless folded.  It's not without problems - underground lines are hard to build and the one high-speed line's construction was fraught and late.  And taxes are relatively high.  But they renationalised the train system, and on a practical level, it got much better.
Whilst not cheap, London now use a tap-in/tap-out system that can be used with bank cards.  That's better than Manchester at present.

There is also Gtr Manchester's Beelines cycling scheme - https://www.tfgm.com/made-to-move/beelines (https://www.tfgm.com/made-to-move/beelines)

Out of this forum, I think we've talked lots about roads.  But I hope you'll use the new A555 in just over a week, before moving to the Netherlands.  Re that last bit - better get your skates on as it's looking as if it'll be hard to visit the EU, let alone move and work there, in 6 months time!