Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Local Elections (May 2020) and Council Matters => Topic started by: GeoffAbell on April 16, 2016, 06:56:18 PM

Title: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 16, 2016, 06:56:18 PM
Rather than having topics for just 1 candidate, I thought we could discuss what topics make a good council and what attributes make a good Marple councillor.

I'll start by saying, the last full council had a more relevant motion, agreed by all sides.  See below.

http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2016/04/10/academies-and-your-local-council/#page-content (http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2016/04/10/academies-and-your-local-council/#page-content)


What fires you up?  Parks, potholes, social services?  Libraries, planning, transport?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 17, 2016, 07:37:04 AM
Geoff,

Please don't try and lead the debate, it isn't yours to do so, instead follow it and contribute. This not a lib dem forum nor a Council forum, it's a Marple people's forum.

I for one am pleased to have the contributions of a sitting Councillor and for me you are most welcome on this forum. Nevertheless all these topics and more have been discussed many times over the years and if you hadn't been such johnny- chum- lately (there you go Russ we're back in the 60s) to this forum, you would know this.

And before you start your response with the words ...'I merely,' then please desist.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Dave on April 17, 2016, 08:01:15 AM
It's a perfectly reasonable enquiry, Geoff, and it's good to have an open question like this from a candidate.

The trouble is, we all know that local authorities are limited in what they can do nowadays by the relentless cuts in funding.

That said, I think the elections should be fought on the big issues rather than potholes and pavements.  For example,  education, transport and social services.  On the last of these, I wonder whether Geoff can give a view on whether, when or how the government's delegation of the entire healthcare budget to the Greater Manchester local authorities might have an impact on key social services in Stockport such as care for the elderly?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 17, 2016, 10:17:00 AM
Singular local politicians can have very little influence over the big issues.

As far as I am concerned local politicians should point their time and energy to local issues. That will be the candidate that will get my vote anyway.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 17, 2016, 08:53:29 PM
We are not having a hustings in these local elections in Marple.  I want to know what people are passionate about.  Or "merely" vaguely like.  I don't especially want to post here (sorry Dave - you asked a good question).  I just wanted to create a space that wasn't candidate-specific. 

simoneaffron you are free to do the same.  It's a democracy.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 18, 2016, 07:12:43 AM
Geoff, what else would a hustings be only candidate specific? What else is a hustings about, only the candidates?

Anyway shouldn't your candidate be conducting this. He has been very conspicuous by his absence if you'll pardon the cliché. It appears that you are speaking for him.

Just another point, speculation really, on my part. What do you think of the libdems chances in Stockport this year ? I could ask Wheels but he'll only say that they will sweep all before them. You're a bit more rational. I think the score is currently; Libdem 23, Labour 21, Conservative 13 and some others

Specifically, relating to yourself, what are your chances in Marple North? To start with you are about 300 votes behind the Conservatives on last year's count and the recent intervention of Kevin Dowling will surely take votes from you. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Condate on April 18, 2016, 08:28:42 AM
Council elections are, or should be, about issues the council can do something about. National issues where the council has to implement whatever government has decided are relevant in so far as the candidates have to explain how they are going to implement things. National issues as such, where however much the council may support or oppose the government's policies, it can do nothing to change them, are not relevant at all.

Party politics are completely irrelevant. I would much rather all candidates were independents. That would not guarantee a sensible council, but it would get rid of the silly arguments and spurious disagreements which plague councils. Sadly, all too many towns and boroughs resemble all too closely Eatanswill as described in The Pickwick Papers.

"It appears, then, that the Eatanswill people, like the people of many
other small towns, considered themselves of the utmost and most mighty
importance, and that every man in Eatanswill, conscious of the weight
that attached to his example, felt himself bound to unite, heart and
soul, with one of the two great parties that divided the town--the Blues
and the Buffs. Now the Blues lost no opportunity of opposing the
Buffs, and the Buffs lost no opportunity of opposing the Blues; and
the consequence was, that whenever the Buffs and Blues met together
at public meeting, town-hall, fair, or market, disputes and high words
arose between them. With these dissensions it is almost superfluous
to say that everything in Eatanswill was made a party question. If the
Buffs proposed to new skylight the market-place, the Blues got up
public meetings, and denounced the proceeding; if the Blues proposed the
erection of an additional pump in the High Street, the Buffs rose as
one man and stood aghast at the enormity."


Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Andy on April 18, 2016, 08:30:37 AM
Hi Geoff

Where do you stand on the Education White Paper 'Excellent Education Everywhere' and the impact of forced academisation of all schools?

Thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Kevin Dowling on April 18, 2016, 11:41:31 AM
Council elections are, or should be, about issues the council can do something about. National issues where the council has to implement whatever government has decided are relevant in so far as the candidates have to explain how they are going to implement things. National issues as such, where however much the council may support or oppose the government's policies, it can do nothing to change them, are not relevant at all.

Party politics are completely irrelevant. I would much rather all candidates were independents. That would not guarantee a sensible council, but it would get rid of the silly arguments and spurious disagreements which plague councils. Sadly, all too many towns and boroughs resemble all too closely Eatanswill as described in The Pickwick Papers.

"It appears, then, that the Eatanswill people, like the people of many
other small towns, considered themselves of the utmost and most mighty
importance, and that every man in Eatanswill, conscious of the weight
that attached to his example, felt himself bound to unite, heart and
soul, with one of the two great parties that divided the town--the Blues
and the Buffs. Now the Blues lost no opportunity of opposing the
Buffs, and the Buffs lost no opportunity of opposing the Blues; and
the consequence was, that whenever the Buffs and Blues met together
at public meeting, town-hall, fair, or market, disputes and high words
arose between them. With these dissensions it is almost superfluous
to say that everything in Eatanswill was made a party question. If the
Buffs proposed to new skylight the market-place, the Blues got up
public meetings, and denounced the proceeding; if the Blues proposed the
erection of an additional pump in the High Street, the Buffs rose as
one man and stood aghast at the enormity."




Entirely agree Condate.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: JohnBates on April 18, 2016, 12:07:51 PM
Council elections are, or should be, about issues the council can do something about. National issues where the council has to implement whatever government has decided are relevant in so far as the candidates have to explain how they are going to implement things. National issues as such, where however much the council may support or oppose the government's policies, it can do nothing to change them, are not relevant at all.

entirely agree with this.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: wheels on April 18, 2016, 12:26:12 PM
Hi Geoff

Where do you stand on the Education White Paper 'Excellent Education Everywhere' and the impact of forced academisation of all schools?

Thanks
Andy

Good question Andy. It's important we know where candidates stand on wider issues, the fact that some might argue that our Councillor can have little impact on national issues is neither here nor there. Quite apart from the fact that they are wrong  I want to know I am voting for someone who holds the same views as me on these wider issues.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 18, 2016, 12:32:06 PM
Geoff, what else would a hustings be only candidate specific? What else is a hustings about, only the candidates?

Anyway shouldn't your candidate be conducting this. He has been very conspicuous by his absence if you'll pardon the cliché. It appears that you are speaking for him.

Just another point, speculation really, on my part. What do you think of the libdems chances in Stockport this year ? I could ask Wheels but he'll only say that they will sweep all before them. You're a bit more rational. I think the score is currently; Libdem 23, Labour 21, Conservative 13 and some others

Specifically, relating to yourself, what are your chances in Marple North? To start with you are about 300 votes behind the

Conservatives on last year's count and the recent intervention of Kevin Dowling will surely take votes from you. 


Let's have a look then.

Afew weeks age the scores were; Libdems 26, Labour 21. Conservaties 13. However the untimely death of Councillor Lenny Grice (Cheadle Hulme South) and the resignations of Patrick Mcauley and Mags Kirkham (Manor & Romiley respectively, have depleted the libdems to as you say 23.


In all, 21 seats are being contested. If we rule out the obvious ones which are almost certainly going to be easily held by the incumbent Councillor.

They are

Bramhall North C
Bramhall South C
Bredbury & Woodley LD
Brinnington L
Cheadle & Gatley LD   
Cheadle Hulme North LD
Davenport & Cale Green L
Edgeley L
Heatons North L
Heatons South L
Reddish North 
 
That leaves us with 10 remaining seats.

In Alphabetical order.

Bredbury Green & Romiley.
The veteran libdem incumbent councillor Hazel Lees is retiring  (good luck Councillor Lees) and her replacement candidate is the controversial Lisa Smart. Her conservative opponent is the lesser known Sally Bennet. This is a hard one to call. I t will either be Lisa or Sally the otheres are just making up the numbers. It will I think be the closest election in the borough and much will depend on how hard each campaigns. Assuming that they both work equally as hard. The libdems are currently on a down whereas the Conservatives are on an up. PREDICTION: CONSERVATIVES TO JUST SHADE IT: Con gain.

Cheadle Hulme South (all right Wheels)
This election sees Mark Hunter (ex LD M.P.) trying to make a comeback in local politics. He is facing Conservative  unknown Stephen Robinson. I think that Hunter will have too much in the tank for Mr Robinson, but it isn't a certainty. PREDICTION LD HOLD.

Hazel Grove
With the retirement of veteran incumbent LD Councillor Kevin Hogg and conservative gains at the last 2 elections, there is only one way this can go. PREDICTION CONSERVATIVE GAIN  BY A LANDSLIDE.

DO THE OTHERS TOMORROW.
 

   
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Andy on April 18, 2016, 01:37:22 PM
Good question Andy. It's important we know where candidates stand on wider issues, the fact that some might argue that our Councillor can have little impact on national issues is neither here nor there. Quite apart from the fact that they are wrong  I want to know I am voting for someone who holds the same views as me on these wider issues.

It is a local question. Removal of the LA from anything to do with education and handing significant swathes of land to central government will have a massive impact locally.

Many LA's are resisting the measures in the paper and are moving motions in defiance, this is having an impact on the parliamentary politicians from within those areas.

In many cases local and national government work in symbiosis.

I want to know if any of those standing in Marple North and Marple South support the White Paper and its contents.

Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 19, 2016, 10:24:40 AM
I am not up for election, so I did not really want to add my pennysworth, but the brilliant Dickens quote by Condate prompts me. 

Re council meetings: if we exclude the annual budget debate and the AGM, the normal full council meeting is effectively in 2 halves.
1) Questions to exec holders from councillors and members of the public.  This holds the decision makers to account and is mostly useful.  ("Mostly" because cllrs can ask 4 questions to each exec member and sometimes they ask the same question 4 times cos they don't get the answer they want or want to make a political point.)
2) Motions which are largely ineffectual because they are mostly on national policy and, if passed, result in the chief officer writing to a secretary of state, which is then ignored.

Except the last council.  where ALL parties (including the Tories) agreed in principle that the forced academisation of all schools was a mistake.  This DOES affect Stockport and Marple and with all in accord our voice is more likely to be heard.  But I cannot speak for the candidates, including the Lib Dem one.  But I agree with Andy.

And the biggest impact a councillor can have is in his (or her) local patch.  In this case Marple.  I am lucky enough to be able to do this job (and I do regard it as a job) full time.   And it's 95% Marple.  It also helps that I have colleagues I can turn to on the bigger questions.  But I am not part of a huge party machine; we are Lib Dems after all!  As Wheels said, it just really shows your political outlook.

So, for instance, when the government shovelled £0.9m our way a few months back (don't forget we lost another £21m this year) I was for spending it on funding-starved social services and parks.

And I do not do predictions!  But I am interested in what Hoffnung has to say.

And I still count Kevin Dowling as friend.  Just!!!!

This is me not contributing???  Sorry!

I know how I'd like Marple to improve, but my view is supremely unimportant for the next 3 weeks!
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Andy on April 19, 2016, 11:22:50 AM
@CllrGeoffAbell

Thanks for alerting me to that meeting - I have just seen the webcast - good news.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 19, 2016, 11:34:16 AM

Let's have a look then.

Afew weeks age the scores were; Libdems 26, Labour 21. Conservaties 13. However the untimely death of Councillor Lenny Grice (Cheadle Hulme South) and the resignations of Patrick Mcauley and Mags Kirkham (Manor & Romiley respectively, have depleted the libdems to as you say 23.


In all, 21 seats are being contested. If we rule out the obvious ones which are almost certainly going to be easily held by the incumbent Councillor.

They are

Bramhall North C
Bramhall South C
Bredbury & Woodley LD
Brinnington L
Cheadle & Gatley LD   
Cheadle Hulme North LD
Davenport & Cale Green L
Edgeley L
Heatons North L
Heatons South L
Reddish North 
 
That leaves us with 10 remaining seats.

In Alphabetical order.

Bredbury Green & Romiley.
The veteran libdem incumbent councillor Hazel Lees is retiring  (good luck Councillor Lees) and her replacement candidate is the controversial Lisa Smart. Her conservative opponent is the lesser known Sally Bennet. This is a hard one to call. I t will either be Lisa or Sally the otheres are just making up the numbers. It will I think be the closest election in the borough and much will depend on how hard each campaigns. Assuming that they both work equally as hard. The libdems are currently on a down whereas the Conservatives are on an up. PREDICTION: CONSERVATIVES TO JUST SHADE IT: Con gain.

Cheadle Hulme South (all right Wheels)
This election sees Mark Hunter (ex LD M.P.) trying to make a comeback in local politics. He is facing Conservative  unknown Stephen Robinson. I think that Hunter will have too much in the tank for Mr Robinson, but it isn't a certainty. PREDICTION LD HOLD.

Hazel Grove
With the retirement of veteran incumbent LD Councillor Kevin Hogg and conservative gains at the last 2 elections, there is only one way this can go. PREDICTION CONSERVATIVE GAIN  BY A LANDSLIDE.

DO THE OTHERS TOMORROW.
 

   

Apologies for the omission. I should have said that Labour will easily hold Reddish North and South.

Which brings us to Heald Green   
Long time councillor Peter Burns is standing down even so a certain shoe in for the new Ratepayers candidate.

Manor Ward
One of the interesting wards this. Currently occupied by the current leader of the council, Libdem Sue Derbyshire. Holding a significant majority from Patrick McAuley's victory last year. However that was in a general election year and with no Conservative candidate. This year there will be no Councillor McAuley (who has a rep as tireless campaigner and there will be a Conservative candidate. PREDICTION: Hold but only just.

Skip the Marples for the moment.

Offerton          
This one has been back and forth between Labour and Libdems in recent years. Just to complicate things even more, the standing candidate Laura Booth won the seat for Labour but then crossed the floor to the Libdems.
PREDICTION. Councillor Booth is the only candidate that lives in the ward and she has enogh name recognition to shade it, so libdem hold.

   
   

 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 19, 2016, 11:47:36 AM
Apologies for the omission. I should have said that Labour will easily hold Reddish North and South.

Which brings us to Heald Green   
Long time councillor Peter Burns is standing down even so a certain shoe in for the new Ratepayers candidate.

Manor Ward
One of the interesting wards this. Currently occupied by the current leader of the council, Libdem Sue Derbyshire. Holding a significant majority from Patrick McAuley's victory last year. However that was in a general election year and with no Conservative candidate. This year there will be no Councillor McAuley (who has a rep as tireless campaigner and there will be a Conservative candidate. PREDICTION: Hold but only just.

Skip the Marples for the moment.

Offerton          
This one has been back and forth between Labour and Libdems in recent years. Just to complicate things even more, the standing candidate Laura Booth won the seat for Labour but then crossed the floor to the Libdems.
PREDICTION. Councillor Booth is the only candidate that lives in the ward and she has enogh name recognition to shade it, so libdem hold.

       


 Stepping Hill

Conservatives just stole it last year from respected councillor Ben Alexander, with 163 votes . Resident libdem councillor Wendy Orrell standing down and former deputy leader Mark Weldon attempting to fill her shoes. Prediction Libdems have shot their bolt in this ward Conservative GAIN.


Both Marple seats later this week. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Kevin Dowling on April 19, 2016, 02:09:15 PM
It is a local question. Removal of the LA from anything to do with education and handing significant swathes of land to central government will have a massive impact locally.

Many LA's are resisting the measures in the paper and are moving motions in defiance, this is having an impact on the parliamentary politicians from within those areas.

In many cases local and national government work in symbiosis.

I want to know if any of those standing in Marple North and Marple South support the White Paper and its contents.



Hello Andy thanks for the question.

You're right in your assertion, in many cases local and national governments do work in symbiosis but just as many work in opposition. It usually depends on the political colour of both. The white papers that you refer is 125 pages thick and I haven't read it and I probably never will, so any opinion I offer will at best be an uninformed one. Councillor Geoff ( an honest man, a committed councillor and someone who has Marple's best interest at heart) is right, this issue impacts on Stockport and Marple.

I'm a great believer in leaving most of the doctoring to the doctors, most of the policing to the coppers and most of the teaching to the teachers. I have a daughter and a niece both of whom are Head teachers and both of whom are furious with he content of this white paper. So on that basis, I'd probably be against it but as I SAY Andy an uninformed opinion.   
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Kevin Dowling on April 19, 2016, 02:16:10 PM
Hoffnung,

Even though like most former councillors/councillors I have a PhD in hindsight, I've learned not to do predictions. Your commentary nevertheless is very interesting. I'll particularly look out for your forthcoming Marple futuristic.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: wheels on April 19, 2016, 04:11:30 PM
Apologies for the omission. I should have said that Labour will easily hold Reddish North and South.

Which brings us to Heald Green   
Long time councillor Peter Burns is standing down even so a certain shoe in for the new Ratepayers candidate.

Manor Ward
One of the interesting wards this. Currently occupied by the current leader of the council, Libdem Sue Derbyshire. Holding a significant majority from Patrick McAuley's victory last year. However that was in a general election year and with no Conservative candidate. This year there will be no Councillor McAuley (who has a rep as tireless campaigner and there will be a Conservative candidate. PREDICTION: Hold but only just.
   
   

Well I do know Manor reasonably well and you overstate in my view the importance of the Tory vote.  It hovers around 4% to 7%  . Those people will have turned out last year to vote Tory in the general election and probably voted UKIP locally as they were the hard core and we're never going to vote LD locally come what may.

This ward has been won every year by the LDs since 1999 , that's a long time. Even during the  bad years for the LDs it was held .  But we will see it is however fun reading your predictions. Lets revisit them on 6th May.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: wheels on April 19, 2016, 04:13:06 PM
Actually I meant to say has been won every year bar one since 1999.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 19, 2016, 11:44:28 PM
Hello Andy thanks for the question.

You're right in your assertion, in many cases local and national governments do work in symbiosis but just as many work in opposition. It usually depends on the political colour of both. The white papers that you refer is 125 pages thick and I haven't read it and I probably never will, so any opinion I offer will at best be an uninformed one. Councillor Geoff ( an honest man, a committed councillor and someone who has Marple's best interest at heart) is right, this issue impacts on Stockport and Marple.


Well, thank you kind sir!  you can be pretty much on the money yourself.  This only goes to prove that politic opponents can be respectful and friendly.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 20, 2016, 04:53:36 PM
Well I do know Manor reasonably well and you overstate in my view the importance of the Tory vote.  It hovers around 4% to 7%  . Those people will have turned out last year to vote Tory in the general election and probably voted UKIP locally as they were the hard core and we're never going to vote LD locally come what may.

This ward has been won every year by the LDs since 1999 , that's a long time. Even during the  bad years for the LDs it was held .  But we will see it is however fun reading your predictions. Lets revisit them on 6th May.

Wheels there was no OVERstating. I was just stating that there was no Conservative candidate last year, so therefore there was no Conservative vote. I agree traditionally it has been small as you say 7%at its best but that is still 200+ votes. Also whilst we are delving back in into the political history of Manor Ward, let's recall that Councillor Derbyshire held the seat with a majority of 24 in 2012. I predict a LD hold but it isn't to be taken for granted and I'm sure C
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 20, 2016, 04:54:54 PM
And I'm sure Councillor D ( for one )isn't doing so.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: wheels on April 20, 2016, 09:35:46 PM
I am sure neither her nor her team are taking it for granted at least so I'm told.

As you mention 2012 when the Leader won by only 24 she was in fact the only Labour facing LD in the North West to hold her seat that year.

I'm sure that in these better times, for the LDs  that is, a slightly bigger majority is anticipated.

But enough of Manor on a Marple web site.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 23, 2016, 06:43:29 AM
I am sure neither her nor her team are taking it for granted at least so I'm told.

As you mention 2012 when the Leader won by only 24 she was in fact the only Labour facing LD in the North West to hold her seat that year.

I'm sure that in these better times, for the LDs  that is, a slightly bigger majority is anticipated.

But enough of Manor on a Marple web site.


It's a strange paradox Wheels, the way you are prepared to talk about the larger issues  on this "Marple Website" yet you don't wish to talk about the ward a few miles down the road on this "Marple Website." I know little of Manor Ward so I won't comment further on it BUT.

"...better times for the libdems..." You must inhabit a different world to mine. I don't have Hoffnung's in depth knowledge  of local politics but perhaps you can explain how the libdems are going to peg back, a 799 vote deficit in Hazel Grove,  628 votes in Marple South and 338 in Marple North. It isn't better times for the libdems it is decidedly worse. As a party they have lost much credibility with the electorate. Surely the General Election demonstrated that. In fact over the next few years, I expect to see them wiped out in Stockport altogether, the way they have been in Manchester.

I've been following Hoffnung's predictions with interest. I'll await his verdicts on the Marple's.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Duke Fame on April 23, 2016, 06:58:24 AM
Good question Andy. It's important we know where candidates stand on wider issues, the fact that some might argue that our Councillor can have little impact on national issues is neither here nor there. Quite apart from the fact that they are wrong  I want to know I am voting for someone who holds the same views as me on these wider issues.

Why? The local council is not about to get involved in wider issues (good job too, they can't even run a market) so why care about wider issues.

My question, what steps will the candidates take to reduce council tax and latterly (when the system changes) business rates?

Do the candidates think there are more efficiencies to be gained within the council and to reduce staffing? If so, how quickly can this be done?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 23, 2016, 04:20:18 PM
Marple South

Essentially a contest between experienced former councillor and ex labour mayor Colin McAllister, now a lib dem and young sprog Tom Dowes. The High Lane Tory enclave forms a large chunk of this ward and they are notorious for staying at home during local elections.  The Conservatives have either shot themselves in the foot here or played a master stroke with their choice of candidate. If Tom can get his vote out and he has the advantage of young legs to do it, then a 628 vote advantage from last year and all its implications should be just too much for the wily McAllister.

Prediction: Conservative gain but with a reduced margin. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 25, 2016, 05:24:45 PM
Marple North

The most interesting one for me but that's probably because it is where I'll be voting.

Earlier this year it looked like a straight toe to toe slugging contest between début candidates John Bates and Malcolm Allan, the Conservatives coming in with a 300+ votes advantage from last year. This advantage was easily reversible. However what has happened since then is that John Bates has emerged as a forthcoming candidate who is prepared to engages on any issue, whereas Malcolm, unfortunately for him, has not emerged at all. Websites don't win elections (not yet anyway) but if this website is anything to go by, John has placed 91 posts about a multitude of issues, he has become involved, helpful and informative whereas Malcolm has placed 4 that have really been the opposite of this .

There is also an x factor here that isn't present in any of the other elections in the borough an independent candidate. Normally independent candidates can be summarily dismissed with a "bless em" and a consolation vote of 50/60 votes.

Not this time, this candidate is Kevin Dowling, local author, local hotelier, reality TV star and well known Marpleista. So what you may say? Well that gives him name recognition, a big factor in local elections. Furthermore there is no doubt that he is actually running a campaign as  good as both the Tories and the libdems and he has a personal following which the other two don't have. He came into a busy pub that I was in last week and he knew everybody in the place and they knew him - Councillor Kev as they still call him and the whole pub seemed to be saying that they would vote for him. He'd certainly put some colour into Marple politics.

It is inconceivable that an independent candidate first time out, from a standing start can win this, - but is it? What is certain is that he will get votes and it won't be 50 and the critical factor in this election might be - where he takes them from. 

PREDICTION: My heart says Councillor Kev, but my head says Conservative John. Forget it Malcolm, you don't even need to turn up, no offence intended, but so far you haven't anyway.               
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: JohnBates on April 25, 2016, 10:26:12 PM
Marple North

 John has placed 91 posts about a multitude of issues, he has become involved, helpful and informative       

Glad that is how it is perceived, at least by one fellow poster  :)

Marple North
PREDICTION: My heart says Councillor Kev, but my head says Conservative John. Forget it Malcolm, you don't even need to turn up, no offence intended, but so far you haven't anyway.               

Hope you are right, but I suspect Malcolm will be closer than that. Kevin certainly adds an interesting dimension to proceedings, and as you say where he takes his votes from may be decisive. Not long before we find out the reality....
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 26, 2016, 10:16:55 AM
I agree with Nick, er, John.  It will be surprisingly close.  I was fortunate enough to be elected (as a newbie) in 2014 in spite of the national picture.  We tend to concentrate on improving local things.  To be fair to John, he has turned up at the odd event that Malcolm or myself have gone to.  (We do have a lot of really good groups in Marple and the surrounding areas.)  I hope that whoever wins, both candidates continue to support these organisations.

Last year, our new MP went to the Mellor-Society-AGM quiz and was on the winning team.   This year Malcolm was on the winning team.  (Although he did say "I don't think I contributed much that night.") Is that auspicious @Hoffnung ?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Malcolm Allan on April 26, 2016, 10:50:32 AM
Just to let you know I am still here. I've been spending my time talking face to face to residents, and attending a wide variety of volunteer and community groups. I work as a volunteer at 4 parks and help with two others and attend around 4 other groups regularly, some working getting my hands dirty, some on committees. It's a good way to listen to the things people think are important and doing it face to face allows a proper dialogue.  As an observation I see, occasionally only one of the other candidates at any of these meetings and working parties, so we are clearly approaching it from a different angle. I've knocked on doors every week since January, and will continue to do so, and I've had a large number of e-mail exchanges direct from residents, visiting them and happily been solving some of their issues. Two yesterday for example. Most of you will know about the major survey we've done on car parking in Marple Bridge, and circulated some concrete proposals to all who contributed. I personally went to see every business in Town Street and talked to them, and more people besides. I'm leading a lottery grant application for another group. That's why I'm in this; to help local people and contribute to the community in Marple, by actually doing things and by being engaged with all people locally and as much as I can to do that face to face, going to see them. And I still do my Junior cricket coaching and my free maths tuition for GCSE, plus my free employment tribunal and legal advisory work.   
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 26, 2016, 02:45:21 PM
Just to let you know I am still here. I've been spending my time talking face to face to residents, and attending a wide variety of volunteer and community groups. I work as a volunteer at 4 parks and help with two others and attend around 4 other groups regularly, some working getting my hands dirty, some on committees. It's a good way to listen to the things people think are important and doing it face to face allows a proper dialogue.  As an observation I see, occasionally only one of the other candidates at any of these meetings and working parties, so we are clearly approaching it from a different angle. I've knocked on doors every week since January, and will continue to do so, and I've had a large number of e-mail exchanges direct from residents, visiting them and happily been solving some of their issues. Two yesterday for example. Most of you will know about the major survey we've done on car parking in Marple Bridge, and circulated some concrete proposals to all who contributed. I personally went to see every business in Town Street and talked to them, and more people besides. I'm leading a lottery grant application for another group. That's why I'm in this; to help local people and contribute to the community in Marple, by actually doing things and by being engaged with all people locally and as much as I can to do that face to face, going to see them. And I still do my Junior cricket coaching and my free maths tuition for GCSE, plus my free employment tribunal and legal advisory work.   


Perhaps you might consider going for Pope instead of Councillor, Malcolm.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 28, 2016, 06:11:18 PM
.   This year Malcolm was on the winning team.  (Although he did say "I don't think I contributed much that night.") Is that auspicious @Hoffnung ?
[/quote]

Unfortunately not Geoff as far as being conducive to success, au contraire, it's conducive to self-delusion. The libdems  nationally and locally are bit of a toxic brand at the moment as far as the electorate are concerned and IMHO it is going to get worse before it gets better or I'll eat my hat.

PREDICTION across Stockport for those keeping. gaining losing seats.

For Labour an uneventful night.   

For Conservatives a successful night.

For the libdems  a disastrous night.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: amazon on April 28, 2016, 08:45:58 PM
Just to let you know I am still here. I've been spending my time talking face to face to residents, and attending a wide variety of volunteer and community groups. I work as a volunteer at 4 parks and help with two others and attend around 4 other groups regularly, some working getting my hands dirty, some on committees. It's a good way to listen to the things people think are important and doing it face to face allows a proper dialogue.  As an observation I see, occasionally only one of the other candidates at any of these meetings and working parties, so we are clearly approaching it from a different angle. I've knocked on doors every week since January, and will continue to do so, and I've had a large number of e-mail exchanges direct from residents, visiting them and happily been solving some of their issues. Two yesterday for example. Most of you will know about the major survey we've done on car parking in Marple Bridge, and circulated some concrete proposals to all who contributed. I personally went to see every business in Town Street and talked to them, and more people besides. I'm leading a lottery grant application for another group. That's why I'm in this; to help local people and contribute to the community in Marple, by actually doing things and by being engaged with all people locally and as much as I can to do that face to face, going to see them. And I still do my Junior cricket coaching and my free maths tuition for GCSE, plus my free employment tribunal and legal advisory work.
And you were a good cricketer yourself .i played with you .
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: JMC on April 28, 2016, 11:53:37 PM
I hope you are wrong. Who keeps voting for such a nasty party?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Condate on April 29, 2016, 08:27:14 AM
I hope you are wrong. Who keeps voting for such a nasty party?

Nasty party? Oh, you mean the Lib Dems!  Of course which party you consider nasty depends very much on your point of view. Personally, I'd consider the Lib Dems one of the nastiest parties around, although that has little to do with local politics. Obviously there are people who consider the Conservative or Labour parties nasty.

None of this should matter in the local election, as we should be concentrating on what the candidates say. I do wonder how differently the election would turn out if we either got rid of the party labels and nobody knew which party each candidate stood for, of if we randomly shuffled the party labels for the candidates. The views of the candidates wouldn't change, but I expect the votes would. They shouldn't of course, as we should be voting on the views of the candidates; not the party labels.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 29, 2016, 11:20:43 AM
I think it was Theresa May who branded her party as the "nasty party" (better than in the Victorian era when they were branded the "stupid party", which to modern ears sounds just rude) but these are all national monikers.  Nationally the Conservatives (whether on Social Services, Europe, or Forced School Academies) are having big internal difficulties. and this week Labour are having a spot of trouble with anti-Semitism.    But I've never heard anyone call us the nasty party in the Lib Dems.  A first, @Condate !  Any evidence for that?

As you said this is a local election and traditionally that is where we've been strong. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Dave on April 29, 2016, 11:35:00 AM
I think it was Theresa May who branded her party as the "nasty party"

.... and they don't get much nastier than this:  http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/refugee-crisis-faces-some-thousands-children-who-have-fled-conflict-zones-1557297

If we still had the 2010 - 15 coalition, those children would be safe by now. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: JMC on April 29, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
But I couldn't vote for a local candidate knowing that they support such awful policies eg
 removing benefits for disabled people, dismantling the NHS, denying suffering children into the country, scrapping tax credits for the working poor, nhs bursaries for nurses etc. I have seen the impact in universities and NHS.

Eg let's say I though John Bates was the best locally, as far as I have seen he supports all the above. Never seen anything against it or any social media. I wiuld be more inclined to vote for someone if they were against at least some of these hideous policies! William Wragg voted for all the above too. Therefore, I wouldn't be able to vote for him.

Yes all parties can have awful policies but this lot have been especially nasty and are alienating many of the public. I see many more people put off by them than in the past.

I haven't seen anything nasty from the other parties to the degree of the Tories. So am not sure why there is so much venom against the Lib Dems etc on this site. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Hoffnung on April 29, 2016, 04:06:36 PM
I think it was Theresa May who branded her party as the "nasty party" (better than in the Victorian era when they were branded the "stupid party", which to modern ears sounds just rude) but these are all national monikers.  Nationally the Conservatives (whether on Social Services, Europe, or Forced School Academies) are having big internal difficulties. and this week Labour are having a spot of trouble with anti-Semitism.    But I've never heard anyone call us the nasty party in the Lib Dems.  A first, @Condate !  Any evidence for that?

As you said this is a local election and traditionally that is where we've been strong. 

As Geoff has mentioned National, I'll comment.

The problem with the libdems is that they are well meaning but for some reason throughout the years they have been proven to have no judgement. From Lloyd George through to David Steel onto Nick Clegg this has proven to be the case. Example after example of their stumbles could be recited,but it would serve no purpose and they wouldn't own up to their mistakes anyway, as that is another libdem trait, their blatant self delusion. Councillor Geoff (honest and nice guy that he seems to be) talks of 'internal difficulties' and a 'spot of trouble' in the Conservative and Labour Party. Geoff, you've got 8 MP's, you had 57. That is 86% of you MPs wiped out. You couldn't be any more in trouble Nationally if you tried. Forget the Tories and Labour consider your own position.

Geoff is it true The first libdem was King Canute ?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Dave on April 29, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
The problem with the libdems is that they are well meaning but for some reason throughout the years they have been proven to have no judgement. From Lloyd George through to David Steel onto Nick Clegg this has proven to be the case. Example after example of their stumbles could be recited

Go on, then - recite them. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 29, 2016, 07:43:02 PM
Geoff, you've got 8 MP's, you had 57. That is 86% of you MPs wiped out. You couldn't be any more in trouble Nationally if you tried. Forget the Tories and Labour consider your own position.

Geoff is it true The first libdem was King Canute ?

8 MPs.  True and 10 years before we had 6.  We're Lib Dems.   Of course 8 Lib Dem MPs could fall out with each other!  We like to be individuals.

If memory serves (and there are a lot of learned people Marple people, so I am happy to be corrected) but wasn't King Canute trying to prove to his barons that they shouldn't be sycophants and to prove this showed them he couldn't turn the tide back?  But he can't have been Lib Dem..  It was still a feudal system.  And he didn't wear sandals.

Liberals in the past in government have done a good many good things - voting reform, introduction of pensions and clipping entitled House of Lords' power (work still in progress I fear) but that is both national and 100 years ago. 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Razzle24 on April 29, 2016, 08:13:04 PM
I would like you to tell me what the Lib Dems have done for Marple. Three small schools closed, one super sized primary school - and now a lack of school places!! The selling off, of the old schools for development. The rec stripped of its playground. The roads in poor condition. - the list goes on.......!
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Condate on April 29, 2016, 08:14:35 PM
I think it was Theresa May who branded her party as the "nasty party" (better than in the Victorian era when they were branded the "stupid party", which to modern ears sounds just rude) but these are all national monikers.  Nationally the Conservatives (whether on Social Services, Europe, or Forced School Academies) are having big internal difficulties. and this week Labour are having a spot of trouble with anti-Semitism.    But I've never heard anyone call us the nasty party in the Lib Dems.  A first, @Condate !  Any evidence for that?

Well, it was a Liberal who introduced the iniquitous Abortion Act (yes, I know Labour and Conservative MP voted for it too) It was the infamous future Lib Dem Roy Jenkins who helped dismantle civilisation in his capacity of "father of the permissive society". It was the equally notorious future Lib Dem Shirley Williams who wrecked the British education system. I tend to associate the Lib Dems with many of the liberal (with a small l) causes which have helped ruin this country. Of course, the Conservative and Labour parties have played their part too, but the Liberals/Lib Dems have certainly played a leading role in the destruction of tradition and the moral standards of this country. I do know there have been exceptions occasionally, but this is how I see the Lib Dems. I can't say I'm that keen on the other two main parties either for that matter.

Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 30, 2016, 07:15:40 AM
8 MPs.  True and 10 years before we had 6.  We're Lib Dems.
 
EXACTLY

And he didn't wear sandals.

NOW YOU'VE REALLY CROSSED THE LINE GEOFF.

The last thing Marple North needs in this election is another part - time undergraduate libdem councillor. Or for that matter another part -time undergraduate Conservative councillor.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 30, 2016, 11:56:20 AM
 :)

To answer @Razzle24 , spent a lot to mend the roads!  Saved the 394 bus - a lifeline for some people - now a Mon-Fri subsidised service between TfGM and Derbyshire CC,  opened up Marple Area Cmte meetings so we discuss (not talk at) the people of Marple, and (I am pleased to say) actively co-operate with the 1 Conservative councillor on waiting restrictions (double yellow lines).  Much more besides.

Our candidate, @Malcolm Allan , is fortunate in that he would be able to be a councillor full-time (see elsewhere in these pages on this issue) and so puts in a lot of work, attends a large number of community / volunteer organisations and has (thanks to input from users) has come up with a plan to alleviate the perennial car parking problem in Marple Bridge.

To answer @Condate I think Britain is currently a strong and vibrant place.  Part of that is because it is a liberal democratic state (with small l and d) partly because people are free to express themselves, provided it doesn't hurt others.  The abortion act I believe was a good thing.  One of the unintended consequences, amazingly, seems to be a correlation between less-unwanted-children and crime stats 20 years later both here and in the US.  It's worth looking that up. 
It was a Labour government that brought in the Comprehensive system.  In my view, national governments of all flavours should stop tinkering so much with our eduction system.  But thank you for explaining what you meant by "nasty". 
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: PhilB on April 30, 2016, 12:35:05 PM


 spent a lot to mend the roads! 

What do you think about the quality of the recent road 'repairs' in Marple? Would this type of repair 'cost a lot' ?
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 30, 2016, 02:52:36 PM
PS I meant to add that nationally I think the 2 worst trends are
1) The increasing gap between rich and poor
2) The spiralling cost and lack of provision of housing, particularly affordable housing.

Roads
This explains the programme:
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/communitypeopleliving/newapproach/investingingrowth/hip_overview/  (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/communitypeopleliving/newapproach/investingingrowth/hip_overview/)
These are the planned roads that have been / will be done in Marple North:
http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2015/12/17/road-renewal-in-marple/#page-content# (http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2015/12/17/road-renewal-in-marple/#page-content#)

And these are the Costings (already made public)
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=89C061D4411DB1DE!4992&authkey=!AJDtbM0K6btfDns&ithint=file%2cxlsx (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=89C061D4411DB1DE!4992&authkey=!AJDtbM0K6btfDns&ithint=file%2cxlsx)
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on April 30, 2016, 03:28:22 PM
What do you think about the quality of the recent road 'repairs' in Marple? Would this type of repair 'cost a lot' ?
PS I meant to add that nationally I think the 2 worst trends are
1) The increasing gap between rich and poor
2) The spiralling cost and lack of provision of housing, particularly affordable housing.

Roads
This explains the programme:
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/communitypeopleliving/newapproach/investingingrowth/hip_overview/  (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/communitypeopleliving/newapproach/investingingrowth/hip_overview/)
These are the planned roads that have been / will be done in Marple North:
http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2015/12/17/road-renewal-in-marple/#page-content# (http://marple.mycouncillor.org.uk/2015/12/17/road-renewal-in-marple/#page-content#)

And these are the Costings (already made public)
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=89C061D4411DB1DE!4992&authkey=!AJDtbM0K6btfDns&ithint=file%2cxlsx (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=89C061D4411DB1DE!4992&authkey=!AJDtbM0K6btfDns&ithint=file%2cxlsx)


Thanks for the helpful links Geoff but you didn't really answer Phil's question Geoff which was about the QUALITY  of the road repairs.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on April 30, 2016, 06:57:04 PM
What it did do (s well as cost) was show the type of repair.

I do not apologise for saying, year on year, we have less money.  Another extra £21 million this year alone.  So the council are trying to find better, cheaper ways of doing the same thing.  One of these is microasphalt, which is laid cold and laid quickly.  I've seen quite a lot out in Marple today, and yes, it does mostly look good.  Some roads were of quality that meant starting from scratch or using another method still. 

There was one road where it was poorly laid.  And another on the reserve list that IMHO should have been done; I will push for this to be done next year.  (I've talked to residents on these roads; I won't name them here.) But the majority look really good, as do the pavements.  Even the one outside @Kevin Dowling Hotel, so you can't say there is any political bias!

@PhilB - let me know here (or by email if you'd rather) if you have seen a problem. 

One of my reported potholes was filled within 2 hours a few weeks back, so someone is listening to me!  (I don't guarentee that service normally.)
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: Razzle24 on April 30, 2016, 07:16:04 PM
Norbury Drive is one of the roads that has shoddy work - they  tarmacked around 2 vans!! Weatherley Drive is another. Yet our Council tax bill has increased!!

Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on May 01, 2016, 07:27:32 AM
:)

To answer @Razzle24 , spent a lot to mend the roads!  Saved the 394 bus - a lifeline for some people - now a Mon-Fri subsidised service between TfGM and Derbyshire CC,  opened up Marple Area Cmte meetings so we discuss (not talk at) the people of Marple, and (I am pleased to say) actively co-operate with the 1 Conservative councillor on waiting restrictions (double yellow lines).  Much more besides.

Our candidate, @Malcolm Allan , is fortunate in that he would be able to be a councillor full-time (see elsewhere in these pages on this issue) and so puts in a lot of work, attends a large number of community / volunteer organisations and has (thanks to input from users) has come up with a plan to alleviate the perennial car parking problem in Marple Bridge.

To answer @Condate I think Britain is currently a strong and vibrant place.  Part of that is because it is a liberal democratic state (with small l and d) partly because people are free to express themselves, provided it doesn't hurt others.  The abortion act I believe was a good thing.  One of the unintended consequences, amazingly, seems to be a correlation between less-unwanted-children and crime stats 20 years later both here and in the US.  It's worth looking that up. 
It was a Labour government that brought in the Comprehensive system.  In my view, national governments of all flavours should stop tinkering so much with our eduction system.  But thank you for explaining what you meant by "nasty". 

Like you Geoff, I'm always willing to be corrected but as you've mentioned your candidate Malcolm, lets ponder on him.

He is certainly uncommunicative. I recall when the transport/traffic debate was raging on here a few weeks ago he was nowhere to be heard. The same with the 394 bus, where was Malcolm, what was his view, again nowhere to be heard.

When he does come on this forum he talks about cricket and giving free tuition to maths students, I recall asking him once on this forum if he had retired from full time work, I don't recall receiving an answer.

I've lived in Marple for many years and he is the only candidate that I've never seen in Marple and that includes The minority party candidates. I saw John Bates last week walking through MMP. I saw Ray Jones UKIP in Costa yesterday. I saw Dave Rowbottom (Labour) coming out of his house. I'm always seeing Kevin Dowling around Marple, he seems to be everywhere. I even saw Trevor Smith (Green) going into a shop  but I've never seen Malcolm, Where is he?

You continually come on this forum and I for one find your postings informative but your not up for election Geoff. You say that HE has come up with 'a plan to alleviate the perennial  parking problems in Marple Bridge.' Well what is it, is it a secret? I'm sure we would all like to hear about it. So come on Malcolm, show yourself, explain this plan to us, we are interested.     
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: admin on May 01, 2016, 10:11:31 AM
...but I've never seen Malcolm, Where is he?

If you'd been in Marple Memorial Park yesterday you would have seen @Malcolm Allan working with Friends of Marple Memorial Park, @JohnBates too. Malcolm has been helping us in the park regularly, at local events and coming to our meetings. John has also been helping in the park and at events, and has also been to a meeting. Regardless of who gets elected I hope that we'll continue to receive the support of both candidates.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: simonesaffron on May 01, 2016, 11:05:56 AM
Unfortunately, Admin I wasn't in the park yesterday. But I am only too glad you've seen and identified him because I was beginning to think that he was a figment of Geoff's imagination.   
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: PhilB on May 03, 2016, 07:53:51 PM

@PhilB - let me know here (or by email if you'd rather) if you have seen a problem. 


I understand there is a budget, but when the hard earned money is spent, who is checking and ensuring a quality job? Does the contractor automatically get paid irrespective of the workmanship? Or is money withheld until the work is inspected as satisfactory and signed off. Generally it looks OK if laid with care. However, having spoken to various people in the community, everyone has said how shoddy it looks. This includes random kerbs that have been replaced.

You only have to take a GEMBA walk along any of the roads and you shall see what everyone else is talking about.
Title: Re: Elections 2016
Post by: GeoffAbell on May 03, 2016, 10:18:18 PM
I understand there is a budget, but when the hard earned money is spent, who is checking and ensuring a quality job? Does the contractor automatically get paid irrespective of the workmanship? Or is money withheld until the work is inspected as satisfactory and signed off. Generally it looks OK if laid with care. However, having spoken to various people in the community, everyone has said how shoddy it looks. This includes random kerbs that have been replaced.

You only have to take a GEMBA walk along any of the roads and you shall see what everyone else is talking about.

There are various works.  So there was a complete relay of Station Road/Hollins Lane.  Most microasphalt looks good - e.g. by Kevin Dowling's Hotel.  But there are a few that will need redoing, e.g. not far from Marple Hall School. 

The council are trying to provide the best possible option for the least money as central government starve us of funds.  So a short relay would subsidise the entire 394 bus route for an entire year!