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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: amazon on February 18, 2016, 07:41:02 PM
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The 394 bus service is being withdrawn end of March ,can you phone email your MP its a vital service to stepping hill .it must be saved .
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The 394 bus service is being withdrawn end of March ,can you phone email your MP its a vital service to stepping hill .it must be saved .
Yes hope they find the money to save the route, probably a lifeline for vulnerable people going to hospital . Is it subsidised at the minute, does any one know why it is being cut?
Alternative is normal 384 to A6 then cross the road and catch the 192. Not a problem for someone who is fit and healthy but problematic if your not very well or organised.
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High Peak Buses website indicates that a Saturday service will continue to operate (though I bet this won't last for very long). Heaven knows why High Peak extended it from Stepping Hill to Stockport last year as this meant that three buses instead of two were needed to operate the service. I have lived in Marple for 15 years and for me the 394 service has been one of the best things about living in Marple though I have often felt to have been in a minority of one as it is often the case that I would be the only person on the bus this side of Gamesley. I have walked the Cown Edge Way from my backdoorstep to Charlesworth many times when I have had a spare afternoon and love walking Glossop circulars onto Bleaklow or Glossop back to Hayfield for the 358. I thought that we had lost it a few years ago when the bus company folded and it has been living on borrowed time and free concessionary travel ever since. We lost the 67 back from Baslow/Eyam a few years ago. The 358 no longer goes up to Newtown to connect with the 199 for Buxton so we now have the slog from Union Road up Albion road to get to the 199/TP bus stop when heading for Buxton.
I shall miss it dearly but Lane Ends and Chisworth will no longer have a bus service and the link from Hawk Green to High Lane will be lost.
Cameron has been to the buses what Beeching was to the railways. May he (and our Conservative MP) rot for the isolation of so many rural villages throughout the country due to withdrawal for funding for grants to operate rural bus services - just like the railway lines, when they have gone they will have gone forever and car owning Conservative MPs couldn't give a toss!
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Yes hope they find the money to save the route, probably a lifeline for vulnerable people going to hospital .
To the best of my knowledge not many people from Glossop needing hospital treatment are referred to Stepping Hill. They are generally referred to Tameside Hospital.
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Alternative is normal 384 to A6 then cross the road and catch the 192. Not a problem for someone who is fit and healthy but problematic if your not very well or organised.
Fortunately the 375 still provides a service from Hawk Green and Marple to Stepping Hill. Let us hope that this service continues to operate (heaven help Hawk Green if the 375 is affected by the cuts in bus subsidies).
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Fortunately the 375 still provides a service from Hawk Green and Marple to Stepping Hill. Let us hope that this service continues to operate (heaven help Hawk Green if the 375 is affected by the cuts in bus subsidies).
Assuming the 375 service remains the same the removal of the 394 will mean that there are less buses to choose from, so it will impact on Marple residents.
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... that there are less buses to ....
FEWER
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The 394 bus service is being withdrawn end of March ,can you phone email your MP its a vital service to stepping hill .it must be saved .
That's a pain as I've used this bus several times to save having to park the car at the hospital.
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FEWER
I am sure you are correct but does it really matter?
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The midweek service is not subsidised. It is run commercially by High Peak Buses. The Saturday service is subsidised.
High Peak Buses have given the statutory 56 days notice of withdrawing the service.
Transport for Greater Manchester are in contact with Derbyshire regarding this, but no decision has been made as yet.
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I never even know that this bus will allow a nice walk, while leaving my car at home. Unless public transport is promoted, it will not yet used by people that have an option.
Even then I have to question if I am willing to depend on a bus being me home from the middle of nowhere, when there is no comeback if it does not run. Or if I get delayed and miss it I have to wait hours for the next bus.
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I used the 394 for 3 years going to SHH due to the parking situation there. Went in the car first time, did 3 circuits looking for a space then ended up in Sainsburys car park & a walk back.
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Buses are the most frequently used form of public transport. Day in and day out they link thousands of people up and down the country to jobs, schools and shops.
However, Government spending cuts are having a devastating effect on our vital bus services. Across the country vital buses are being axed by local authorities as they make financially agonising decisions of where to cut spending. The Save Our Buses campaign stands up for treasured local buses and defends them from damaging funding cuts. Routes and services across England and Wales are being lost and if we don't make a stand now, it will be too late.
Buses must be saved because:
64 per cent of jobseekers either have no access to a vehicle or cannot drive
Young people are amongst the biggest users of bus services , whilst 40 per cent of people over 60 use the bus at least once a week
Passenger cars produce nearly 60 per cent of all CO2 emissions from road transport in the UK, compared with just 5 per cent from buses
If drivers switched just one in twenty five of their car journeys to bus or coach, it would mean one billion fewer car journeys per year
Every £1 of public investment in buses provides between £3 and £5 of wider benefits
Bus commuters generate £64 billion in economic output every year.
My very personal reason for wanting to fight for the service is that I have never been able to drive due to epilepsy so without my wife's car I am totally dependant upon public transport.
The Campaign for Better Transport group has been fighting the massive cuts in bus services in Britain. In Greater Manchester we are not facing the same massive cuts to bus services faced by Derbyshire and Lancashire and John Bates points out that the Monday to Friday service has not been supported by Transport for Greater Manchester or Derbyshire County Council but I am totally bewildered about how this service could have been economically viable without subsidy but subsidy is needed if we are not to lose this service.
I shall contact The Campaign for Better Transport group for advice and with the aim of helping to campaign to fight for this service. If you are willing to assist please let me know.
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I have contacted Campaign for Better Transport informing them of the withdrawal of this service and requesting their assistance making the following statements:-
Why is the bus service important to you?
This is the only bus service to link Marple to Glossop. Withdrawal of the service will isolate the population living between the outskirts of Marple Bridge and Charlesworth denying access to shops and medical facilities in Marple Bridge or Marple to the west or Glossop to the east. At Marple Bridge there is a frequent 383-384 service to Stockport and train service to Manchester/Sheffield. At Glossop the 394 links with a train service to Manchester and bus services to Tameside. To the west of Marple there is an hourly Stagecoach 375 service from Hawk Green to Marple and Stockport Stepping Hill Hospital but this uses a particularly circuitous route. This service is a vital lifeline for those on the route who do not have access to a car. Passenger numbers are low but I believe that usage could be increased considerably it the route were to be marketed more effectively to the generally fairly affluent users who face tremendous difficulty when attempting to park at Marple Bridge, Marple station, Marple centre and Hazel Grove. The service does suffer difficulties with timekeeping due to peak hour traffic jams in Glossop, Marple Bridge and Hazel Grove and these problems are currently exacerbated by single lane traffic on the very busy A6 just south of Hazel Grove to the construction of the SEMMS Manchester airport relief road.
Details of the cut.
I have just discovered that from 28th March 2016 High Peak Buses are completely withdrawing the Monday to Friday hourly 394 Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital service via Gamesley, Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple Station, Marple centre, Hawk Green, High Lane, Hazel Grove, Stepping Hill Hospital service. The service currently operates without subsidy Monday to Friday (and will continue to operate as a subsidised service on Saturday). The service serves an affluent semi-rural area of Greater Manchester between Hazel Grove and Marple with a very high rate of car ownership. Once out of Marple Bridge population density is low with a small number of houses adjacent to the main road. The small village of Chisworth has no other bus service and the next village Charlesworth is at the moment currently also served by Stotts Tours hourly 341 service. Gamesley is a large Manchester overspill estate originally built in the 1960s and the service is well used for the section to Glossop. I would appreciate your advice about maximising political pressure for local authority support for this service.
This statement is a starting point but it certainly does not fully reflect the dreadful effect the withdrawal of the service will have upon some people who live on the route. For this to be an effective campaign I need a lot more detail of how the withdrawal of the service will effect you personally enabling me to provide a convincing argument for support from Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County Council so statements online if you wish or by email to me Steve Slater marplerambler@marplerambler.plus.com would be most useful.
Suggestions about the way forward and offers of assistance to set up an action group would be appreciated. I will write to our MP and Councillors asking for support I would suggest an online petition as well as a straightforward petition so any offer of assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Lateral thinking is always beneficial. Does anyone have any useful suggestions about marketing of a campaign or possible changes to the route or timing of services which would improve usage?
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Fortunately the 375 still provides a service from Hawk Green and Marple to Stepping Hill. Let us hope that this service continues to operate (heaven help Hawk Green if the 375 is affected by the cuts in bus subsidies).
And takes twice as long .quite few students from Gamesley go to the ridge .on this bus it is well used .
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High Peak Buses website indicates that a Saturday service will continue to operate (though I bet this won't last for very long). Heaven knows why High Peak extended it from Stepping Hill to Stockport last year as this meant that three buses instead of two were needed to operate the service. I have lived in Marple for 15 years and for me the 394 service has been one of the best things about living in Marple though I have often felt to have been in a minority of one as it is often the case that I would be the only person on the bus this side of Gamesley. I have walked the Cown Edge Way from my backdoorstep to Charlesworth many times when I have had a spare afternoon and love walking Glossop circulars onto Bleaklow or Glossop back to Hayfield for the 358. I thought that we had lost it a few years ago when the bus company folded and it has been living on borrowed time and free concessionary travel ever since. We lost the 67 back from Baslow/Eyam a few years ago. The 358 no longer goes up to Newtown to connect with the 199 for Buxton so we now have the slog from Union Road up Albion road to get to the 199/TP bus stop when heading for Buxton.
I shall miss it dearly but Lane Ends and Chisworth will no longer have a bus service and the link from Hawk Green to High Lane will be lost.
Cameron has been to the buses what Beeching was to the railways. May he (and our Conservative MP) rot for the isolation of so many rural villages throughout the country due to withdrawal for funding for grants to operate rural bus services - just like the railway lines, when they have gone they will have gone forever and car owning Conservative MPs couldn't give a toss!
Is our local mp still around whats he doing about it .
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Yes hope they find the money to save the route, probably a lifeline for vulnerable people going to hospital . Is it subsidised at the minute, does any one know why it is being cut?
Alternative is normal 384 to A6 then cross the road and catch the 192. Not a problem for someone who is fit and healthy but problematic if your not very well or organised.
Derbyshire are with drawing the funding .
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Awful news. I use this service a lot to the hospital (NHS worker). Having to get 2 buses (383 and 192) in rush hour would be horrendous. Some of us with childcare can't set off till 7.30 already. 375 is alright for middle of the day hosp apts or shopping but not for getting to SHH early in the morning.
Presently my husband and I share a car but we may now have to look at getting a 2nd.
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Had 100 notices (details below) printed at Marple Stationery Supplies. I have spent the whole day going around all of the shops/pubs/cafes etc in Marple asking them to display. Many were obliging, quite a few were genuinely very interested. A few of the chains were not allowed. ASDA had an unbelievably patronising *** telling me that its Community Notice Board could not be used to protest about cuts to bus services whilst the Co-op garage were at the other extreme and were very accommodating with a reply of something like 'Of course you can - that is what our Community Notice Board is for'. Even put one through William Wragg's letterbox.
Notices put on most of the bus stops.
I shall blitz Marple Bridge on Monday.
Notice stated the following:-
SAVE OUR
394 BUS
The Hazel Grove to Marple to Glossop bus will cease to run on Mondays to Fridays from 28th March 2016.
Please write to your local MP William Wragg (Hazel Grove & Marple) or Andrew Bingham (High Peak) and contact your local councillor asking for his/her support for the continuation of this service.
Help me fight withdrawal of this service by signing the petition at Facebook for Stephen Slater ‘Save Our 394 Glossop – Marple – Stepping Hill bus’ at 38degrees.org.uk. I am currently trying to get this to show but it isn’t showing on the 38degrees site. There is an also online petition the site of Gamesley Councillor Cllr Anthony E McKeown.
More details Marple Community Website.
Contact me Stephen Slater marplerambler@marplerambler.plus.com if you can help.
Still having no luck getting the petition to display on the 38 degrees site but the online petition is there at Facebook Stephen Slater Stockport if you would sign it through there.
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Had 100 notices (details below) printed at Marple Stationery Supplies. I have spent the whole day going around all of the shops/pubs/cafes etc in Marple asking them to display. Many were obliging, quite a few were genuinely very interested. A few of the chains were not allowed. ASDA had an unbelievably patronising *** telling me that its Community Notice Board could not be used to protest about cuts to bus services whilst the Co-op garage were at the other extreme and were very accommodating with a reply of something like 'Of course you can - that is what our Community Notice Board is for'. Even put one through William Wragg's letterbox.
Notices put on most of the bus stops.
I shall blitz Marple Bridge on Monday.
Notice stated the following:-
SAVE OUR
394 BUS
The Hazel Grove to Marple to Glossop bus will cease to run on Mondays to Fridays from 28th March 2016.
Please write to your local MP William Wragg (Hazel Grove & Marple) or Andrew Bingham (High Peak) and contact your local councillor asking for his/her support for the continuation of this service.
Help me fight withdrawal of this service by signing the petition at Facebook for Stephen Slater ‘Save Our 394 Glossop – Marple – Stepping Hill bus’ at 38degrees.org.uk. I am currently trying to get this to show but it isn’t showing on the 38degrees site. There is an also online petition the site of Gamesley Councillor Cllr Anthony E McKeown.
More details Marple Community Website.
Contact me Stephen Slater marplerambler@marplerambler.plus.com if you can help.
Still having no luck getting the petition to display on the 38 degrees site but the online petition is there at Facebook Stephen Slater Stockport if you would sign it through there.
Well done there is a petition somewhere on the web but cant find it anyone help?
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Derbyshire are with drawing the funding .
Do we know how much is involved?
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Do we know how much is involved?
no .but the service will run saturdays financial suport of transport for greater Manchester.just for one day
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http://anthonymckeown.info/about-gamesley/local-bus-services/save-the-394-sign-the-petition-now/#mobile-menu
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Well done there is a partition somewere on the web .but cant find it anyone help /
Two places. There is a 38Degrees petition which I have set up and which is showing on via my Facebook page (Stephen Slater Stockport). I cannot figure out how to access directly this on 38degrees. If anyone knows how please let me and everyone else know
I spoke this morning to Cllr Anthony McKeown from Gamesley. He has an online petition which can be accessed if you google '394 (Glossop to Stepping Hill) - more bad news on the way'.
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Do we know how much is involved?
Cllr Mckeown from Gamesley states that in 2013 the Saturday service was subsidised jointly by Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County council at a cost of £350. The Saturday subsidy will continue. The problem is that High Peak Buses currently runs the Monday to Friday service without subsidy and the service is not now economically viable due to low usage.
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@marplerambler there is a lady on the Glossop Facebook page campaigning to save the 394. She is called Mary Cahill.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Glossopdale.for.all/
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I am pleased to see that that Councillor Anthony Mckeown of Gamesley has set up an online petition for the retention of the service. Are any of the Marple /High Lane / Hazel Grove or Stepping Hill councillors prepared to state that they will fight to ensure the service continues do the same and set up a petition on their websites?
Can any of the computer nerds advise how to get my 'Save the 394' petition to display on the 38degrees website? At the moment I can only get it to show on my Facebook site.
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At the moment I can only get it to show on my Facebook site.
I think you must have it set to friends only as I can't see it on your FB page. Can you make it a public post then may be able to help?
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is this it @marplerambler ?
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1
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I have contacted Campaign for Better Transport informing them of the withdrawal of this service and requesting their assistance making the following statements:-
Why is the bus service important to you?
This is the only bus service to link Marple to Glossop. Withdrawal of the service will isolate the population living between the outskirts of Marple Bridge and Charlesworth denying access to shops and medical facilities in Marple Bridge or Marple to the west or Glossop to the east. At Marple Bridge there is a frequent 383-384 service to Stockport and train service to Manchester/Sheffield. At Glossop the 394 links with a train service to Manchester and bus services to Tameside. To the west of Marple there is an hourly Stagecoach 375 service from Hawk Green to Marple and Stockport Stepping Hill Hospital but this uses a particularly circuitous route. This service is a vital lifeline for those on the route who do not have access to a car. Passenger numbers are low but I believe that usage could be increased considerably it the route were to be marketed more effectively to the generally fairly affluent users who face tremendous difficulty when attempting to park at Marple Bridge, Marple station, Marple centre and Hazel Grove. The service does suffer difficulties with timekeeping due to peak hour traffic jams in Glossop, Marple Bridge and Hazel Grove and these problems are currently exacerbated by single lane traffic on the very busy A6 just south of Hazel Grove to the construction of the SEMMS Manchester airport relief road.
Details of the cut.
I have just discovered that from 28th March 2016 High Peak Buses are completely withdrawing the Monday to Friday hourly 394 Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital service via Gamesley, Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple Station, Marple centre, Hawk Green, High Lane, Hazel Grove, Stepping Hill Hospital service. The service currently operates without subsidy Monday to Friday (and will continue to operate as a subsidised service on Saturday). The service serves an affluent semi-rural area of Greater Manchester between Hazel Grove and Marple with a very high rate of car ownership. Once out of Marple Bridge population density is low with a small number of houses adjacent to the main road. The small village of Chisworth has no other bus service and the next village Charlesworth is at the moment currently also served by Stotts Tours hourly 341 service. Gamesley is a large Manchester overspill estate originally built in the 1960s and the service is well used for the section to Glossop. I would appreciate your advice about maximising political pressure for local authority support for this service.
This statement is a starting point but it certainly does not fully reflect the dreadful effect the withdrawal of the service will have upon some people who live on the route. For this to be an effective campaign I need a lot more detail of how the withdrawal of the service will effect you personally enabling me to provide a convincing argument for support from Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County Council so statements online if you wish or by email to me Steve Slater marplerambler@marplerambler.plus.com would be most useful.
Suggestions about the way forward and offers of assistance to set up an action group would be appreciated. I will write to our MP and Councillors asking for support I would suggest an online petition as well as a straightforward petition so any offer of assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Lateral thinking is always beneficial. Does anyone have any useful suggestions about marketing of a campaign or possible changes to the route or timing of services which would improve usage?
It will also impact on the local students attending the Kirklees College equine and animal care courses at Hargate Hill Equestrian Centre.
I use it daily to get to and from Buxton Lane to Hargate Hill where I keep my horse. As I'm an OAP it saves a lot in petrol. I only have to drive on Sundays (it doesn't run then).
It will be a disaster for anyone who lives on the route, works in Stockport and doesn't drive. The service is also used by shoppers who need to go into Glossop or Marple to do their regular food shops.
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is this it @marplerambler ?
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1
Thank you Stationery Supplies. Would everyone who wishes to see the continuation of the 394 service please sign this online petition. If this service is a lifeline for you please put a message on this site saying why. If our political masters don't know why the bus is vital to enable you to get to the shops or to the doctors in Marple/Marple Bridge/Hazel Grove/ Glossop they will evade responsibility so please don't just sign - tell us on the Marple Community Website why this is a lifeline. With a few stories of hardship caused by the loss of the bus and a bit of luck things can progress to the next level of getting the local newspapers reporting about the problems the loss of the bus service will cause.
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Whilst I agree that the withdrawal of the 394 service will be a loss to some, I can understand why it proved uneconomical to run.
For a fair few years I used this service to get to work at Stepping Hill. The problem was that the service was once an hour at best.ln the mornings the 8.45 never arrived on time because of congestion so it could not be relied upon to get me to work on time leaving only the earlier bus an option. In the evenings - well I lose count of the number of times I stood at the hospital waiting for a 5.20 bus that never arrived or was ridiculously late; leaving you debating whether to wait for the 6.30 & hope that turns up or take over another hour getting the 192 to Stockport and another bus then to Marple. That's before you even consider the bus fare which was fairly expensive.
Once I had children it just became out of the question because of its reliability - nurseries and after school club staff do want to go home on time too & I risked fines for being late.
So it's really no surprise that there are not many people using the service. It is a shame for those that don't have the option of a car and will not help parking at the hospital either.
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Monday 22.02.2016 I have put notices of the withdrawal of the service on all bus shelters on the route between Hawk Green and Lane Ends. Notices to 3 doctors surgeries in Marple and Marple Bridge and to Ludworth School. Called in at office of William Wragg MP but he was out. Have now collected about 60 signatures on a hand written petition.
If you use this route regularly or if you need the route to Stepping Hill or think that you may need the route to Stepping Hill to avoid the difficulties and cost of parking please sign. https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1
Whilst I agree that the withdrawal of the 394 service will be a loss to some, I can understand why it proved uneconomical to run.
For a fair few years I used this service to get to work at Stepping Hill. The problem was that the service was once an hour at best.ln the mornings the 8.45 never arrived on time because of congestion so it could not be relied upon to get me to work on time leaving only the earlier bus an option. In the evenings - well I lose count of the number of times I stood at the hospital waiting for a 5.20 bus that never arrived or was ridiculously late; leaving you debating whether to wait for the 6.30 & hope that turns up or take over another hour getting the 192 to Stockport and another bus then to Marple. That's before you even consider the bus fare which was fairly expensive.
Once I had children it just became out of the question because of its reliability - nurseries and after school club staff do want to go home on time too & I risked fines for being late.
So it's really no surprise that there are not many people using the service. It is a shame for those that don't have the option of a car and will not help parking at the hospital either.
The problem of timekeeping will not get any better in the foreseeable future with all of the work on the SEMMS Road on the A6 at High Lane but this problem is not solved by simply withdrawing the service. We need a subsidy and an operator who offers a sensible timetable in the mornings.
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Councillor Geoff,
As our local Marple Councillor and as Stockport's TfGM representative, Can you help?
I don't use this service myself but I have an elderly relative who does and cessation of this service would have a major impact on his life.
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The problem of timekeeping will not get any better in the foreseeable future with all of the work on the SEMMS Road on the A6 at High Lane but this problem is not solved by simply withdrawing the service. We need a subsidy and an operator who offers a sensible timetable in the mornings.
The issue with time keeping that enough buses are needed on “standby” that if there is a delay with a bus getting from A to B, there is another bus ready to leave from B at the correct time, even if the bus from A has not yet arrived. (Otherwise when there are delays the buses will just get later and later as the delays add up.)
However this is not cheap…..
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I understand Derbyshire are looking at tendering for a two hourly service Monday to Friday.
I do feel that is to infrequent. If we keep up the pressure perhaps an hourly one as currently may be possible.
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My complete message did not show. Second edition:-
The issue with time keeping that enough buses are needed on “standby” that if there is a delay with a bus getting from A to B, there is another bus ready to leave from B at the correct time, even if the bus from A has not yet arrived. (Otherwise when there are delays the buses will just get later and later as the delays add up.)
However this is not cheap…..
Two buses run backwards and forwards all day long. The journey time from Stepping Hill to Glossop is (in theory at least) 54 minutes so in theory the 38 from Glossop past the hour arrives at stepping Hill at 32 past to return to Marple/Glossop at 36 past the hour. An additional bus would increase the cost of running the service by 50% and even more frustratingly if for example a bus were to arrive 15 minutes late at Stepping Hill and the additional vehicle had left at the time shown in the timetable the bus which had arrived late would not pick up any passengers if it was running ten minutes behind the vehicle which had departed at the correct time. 'Standby' buses are fine on the 192 or 383/384 because the service is frequent. You arrive at the bus stop expecting a bus at half past and a bus will come at that time but you don't realise that the bus you catch should really have left at quarter past but an additional vehicle had been slotted in to ensure there is a 15 minute gap between departures. You just can't do that if the bus is hourly.
If you would like to see continuation of the 394 can you sign the petition at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ? Thanks.
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I understand Derbyshire are looking at tendering for a two hourly service Monday to Friday.
I do feel that is to infrequent. If we keep up the pressure perhaps an hourly one as currently may be possible.
Pressure on a company operating a loss-making service is not enough. The service needs a subsidy from Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County council and it is the Councillors and MPs who make the decision to fund the service. The bus company needs to cover its costs if fares are lower than the cost of running the service (though it may be that a different bus company may offer a tender to run the service at a lower subsidy than High Peak Buses). This is the responsibility of the councillors and MPs, not the bus company.
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Pressure on a company operating a loss-making service is not enough. The service needs a subsidy from Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County council and it is the Councillors and MPs who make the decision to fund the service. The bus company needs to cover its costs if fares are lower than the cost of running the service (though it may be that a different bus company may offer a tender to run the service at a lower subsidy than High Peak Buses). This is the responsibility of the councillors and MPs, not the bus company.
I meant pressure on Derbyshire County Council and TFGM
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I received a personal message from a person concerned about what can be done.
The very first thing is to let our Councillors and MP know that we care about and need the service by writing to them or making appointments with them to express our dissatisfaction. Apathy amongst those who want to see the continuation of the service is a huge problem so if you could make your voice heard and write to or request an appointment to the political representative who will have to make a decision about the funding (or more likely say 'Sorry, not my fault mate. It is wonderful to receive payment to be your Councillor or MP but the responsibility ultimately lies with Transport for Greater Manchester' but at the end of the day not enough people use the service to make it economically viable. You cast your vote and choose a party with a commitment to keep taxes down so we can all afford a car to drive to hospital or pay for a taxi so to oppose the Conservative government's instructions to reduce expenditure on local services goes against all we stand for). The problem is that not everyone can afford a new car or a taxi and not everyone is permitted to drive because they have medical conditions which prohibited driving. The Conservative MP will feed you tea and sympathy but when it comes to the crunch the government is committed to ending subsidy of unprofitable public transport services outside London. At the end of the day TfGM will fund the service if it receives the cash from central government and/or the ratepayer. The MPs / councillors will only do this if political pressure for subsidy is so great that they fear they may lose their seats.
The Gamesley Councillor is fighting hard for the service. Barely a person in Marple knew about this proposed cut a few days ago but they certainly knew in Gamesley because the Councillor was kicking up a stink. It is a month since High Peak Buses stated that they could no longer run this service without subsidy. If the Marple/Hazel Grove councillors are doing the same as the councillor for Gamesley why has it been kept a closely guarded secret?
So please, protest to your MP and Councillor, ask him or her 'Will you fight for a subsidy for this bus service Yes or No?'
Please put details of the problems this will cause by making an entry stating the problem on this Forum so that the political representative cannot just sweep it under the carpet stating 'no-one used the bus anyway!'
Sign the petition at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1
and use this website to highlight the difficulties you will suffer or to make it clear that the way forward is that the government should assume no responsibility for spending taxpayers money on public transport.
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I don't suppose any of our local Councillors or our esteemed MP has made any representations? I'd be amazed if they do, seem to be very good at keeping their heads down when there's a whiff of anything potentially controversial in the air.
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And I don't suppose any of them actually use the buses so won't appreciate just how valuable a lifeline they are for some of their constituents.
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I don't suppose any of our local Councillors or our esteemed MP has made any representations? I'd be amazed if they do, seem to be very good at keeping their heads down when there's a whiff of anything potentially controversial in the air.
I know for a fact both Cllr Annette Finnie and William Wragg MP have been making representations. I imagine Cllr Geoff Abell has done so, as I know he has been contacted by Cllr Annette Finnie regarding communications over this.
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And I don't suppose any of them actually use the buses so won't appreciate just how valuable a lifeline they are for some of their constituents.
Unfair assumption Barbara and I can personally say untrue. For I have actually seen Councillor Geoff on the bus. It wasn't the 394, but it was definitely a bus.
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I know for a fact both Cllr Annette Finnie and William Wragg MP have been making representations. I imagine Cllr Geoff Abell has done so, as I know he has been contacted by Cllr Annette Finnie regarding communications over this.
That's good to know John.
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That's good to know John.
Anthony McKeown, a High Peak Councillor, is alco on the case from the Glossop end of the route.
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Cllr Mckeown from Gamesley states that in 2013 the Saturday service was subsidised jointly by Transport for Greater Manchester and Derbyshire County council at a cost of £350. The Saturday subsidy will continue. The problem is that High Peak Buses currently runs the Monday to Friday service without subsidy and the service is not now economically viable due to low usage.
"the service is not now economically viable due to low usage"
It might be more viable if the drivers actually registered OAP's bus passes. I've been on the bus several times when the passes (including mine) have been ignored and tickets not issued. Hmm, I wonder if this is laziness or company policy to prove a point they wish to argue?
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OK Simone I apologise!
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OK Simone I apologise!
No need Barbara, just pointing out an inaccuracy. Anyway I can't speak for Councillor Geoff but I'll accept it graciously, thank you.
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"the service is not now economically viable due to low usage"
It might be more viable if the drivers actually registered OAP's bus passes. I've been on the bus several times when the passes (including mine) have been ignored and tickets not issued. Hmm, I wonder if this is laziness or company policy to prove a point they wish to argue?
I generally find that the High Peak drivers are very diligent about issuing tickets though I do stand there expecting a ticket. I was on the bus on Friday, saw a passenger board, show his pass and go straight to his seat but I noticed that the driver hit the ticket button on his machine even though the passenger was seated by that time.
Things are going slowly (43 signatures in 3 days) with the 38degrees online petition asking William Wragg MP and Andrew Bingham MP to fight for the continuation of this service but a member of staff at 38degrees rang me this morning and stated that he will send an email to everyone registered for 38degrees email in the Stockport / Glossop area. Hopefully this will help bring the matter to the attention of many less regular users. I have been astonished by the number of people who have said that even though they have a car, they use this service when they need to go to Stepping Hill hospital because it is so hard to park at Stepping Hill.
If you use the service or think that you will use the service if you need to go to Stepping Hill and have not signed the petition or if you live on a section of the route which is not served by another service please sign the petition now!
The petition is at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ?
If you go directly to the 38degrees site, the site is a bit confusing. To find the petition enter 394 in the box with the magnifying glass immediately to the right of the 38degrees logo.
I already have about sixty signatures from people who have been standing at the bus stops when I have been putting up notices.
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Looks like @William Wragg MP supports saving the 394 service and now has his own petition on his web site:
http://www.williamwragg.org.uk/campaigns/save-394-bus
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I live on Glossop Road just before the county boundary. We are 2.5 miles from the centre of Marple Bridge but our catchment school is Marple Hall which is over 4 miles away. The school bus service only goes as far as Devil's Elbow (around 1.5 miles before the Stockport boundary) so our children have to use the 394. Without the service they will have to walk along isolated, unlit and dangerous roads which is simple unsafe. If they attend after school activities, they will only have public transport as far as Marple Bridge and will then have to walk 2.5 miles. Other children who live over the border but attend Marple Hall will be in an even worse predicament, but from what I've heard, locals aren't aware of the imminent withdrawal of the service. Several elderly neighbours don't drive or are in ill health and the bus is a lifeline for them and is also essential for hospital visits. I can't see how they can be expected to walk 2.5 miles to Marple Bridge. These are really steep roads, covered in surface water (so you risk a soaking by passing motorists) and are isolated and have no street lighting so users are really very vulnerable. I've contacted our local councillor, MP, Transport for Greater Manchester, the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party, Stockport MBC, Derbyshire County Council and High Peak Buses! I'd ask all concerned parties to do the same.
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I have used this service several times this week and it seems quite well used. I need to print some leaflets as not sure the older folk are aware what is happening.
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Derbyshire have put out to tender for two options.
1) The current service
2) a reduced two hourly service
Lets keep up pressure so hopefully will go for option one if reasonable tender price.
http://johnbates.me.uk/index.php/campaigns/200-394-bus-2
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I live on Glossop Road just before the county boundary. We are 2.5 miles from the centre of Marple Bridge but our catchment school is Marple Hall which is over 4 miles away. The school bus service only goes as far as Devil's Elbow (around 1.5 miles before the Stockport boundary) so our children have to use the 394. Without the service they will have to walk along isolated, unlit and dangerous roads which is simple unsafe. If they attend after school activities, they will only have public transport as far as Marple Bridge and will then have to walk 2.5 miles. Other children who live over the border but attend Marple Hall will be in an even worse predicament, but from what I've heard, locals aren't aware of the imminent withdrawal of the service. Several elderly neighbours don't drive or are in ill health and the bus is a lifeline for them and is also essential for hospital visits. I can't see how they can be expected to walk 2.5 miles to Marple Bridge. These are really steep roads, covered in surface water (so you risk a soaking by passing motorists) and are isolated and have no street lighting so users are really very vulnerable. I've contacted our local councillor, MP, Transport for Greater Manchester, the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party, Stockport MBC, Derbyshire County Council and High Peak Buses! I'd ask all concerned parties to do the same.
This is true people who live atHawk green are not aware .talking to lady at stepping hill yesterday she was not aware on the withdrawl of the service ..and somone said they dont register the passes when you show them .
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Looks like @William Wragg MP supports saving the 394 service and now has his own petition on his web site:
http://www.williamwragg.org.uk/campaigns/save-394-bus
It is interesting to see the photographs above the petition for the bus service on William Wraggs website.
The first is Mr Wragg digging for victory celebrating the massive cuts in Council Parks & Rec staff which has led to such a deterioration of Marple Park, Brabyns Park, St Chads and Torkington Park. The second is a splendid photo of Mr Cameron: I cannot help thinking that David Cameron would board a bus and take a seat, the driver would turn around to ask for his fare and Mr Cameron would very genuinely be totally confused and apologise profusely stating that he thought buses had conductors to collect the fares. The final photograph above stating 'Your Council Tax has been frozen' doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence about the provision of funding: if the elderly and infirm are denied their meals on wheels due to cuts will they be denied the wheels to get to Stepping Hill if they don't have a car?
Still, it's inspiring to see our MP is now taking signatures on this subject. If he had asked I am sure that he would have been told that he could actually take a photograph of the bus as it went through Marple instead of having to use the photo taken by the Labour Councillor for Gamesley (google Cllr Anthony Mckeown 394 and lo and behold what do you find but Mr Mckeown's photograph of the bus in Gamesley when started his campaign and petition two weeks ago). Handy that he was able to copy the photo from the Labour Councillor's website.
Cllr Anthony Mckeown said “I condemn the management of High Peak Buses / Centrebus for this latest decision taken without consultation with either service users or the County Council which will see locals cut off from access to work, Stepping Hill Hospital, Marple College and leave residents of Chisworth completely stranded with no local bus service during the week.”
William has already written to, Stockport Council, Derbyshire Council, Transport for Greater Manchester and High Peak Buses asking that they look very carefully at retaining this service as it crucial for so many in our community.
Mr Wragg states 'The 394 provides a vital lifeline to the most vulnerable in our community and seeing its services cut would have wide reaching consequences'. Well that is a statement of the obvious. What I do not see anywhere in his statement is a commitment to fight for the service!
He also states: 'Signing the petition will give William the chance to present this to all of the groups mentioned above to add further weight to everyone's cause.' again a statement of the obvious but not the slightest hint that he could care less!
It might be handy for him to download a copy of the petition document from Councillor Mckeown's website.
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Derbyshire have put out to tender for two options.
1) The current service
2) a reduced two hourly service
Lets keep up pressure so hopefully will go for option one if reasonable tender price.
http://johnbates.me.uk/index.php/campaigns/200-394-bus-2
Definitely more encouraging than Mr Wragg's site. Unfortunately it doesn't auger well that the bus shown in Mr Bate's photograph (fleet number 292) was withdrawn from service prior to 15th December 2015 (Source: Sheffield Onmibus Enthusiasts Society).
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Many thanks to Sue Ingham and Marple Liberal Democrats for incorporating a statement on their website pledging to fight for the 394 service.
Sue Ingham states ‘I and my fellow Cllrs are very concerned that this is happening and without any consultation. This is a vital service for residents who have no other means of attending hospital appointments and discontinuing the service will cause real hardship for many people.’
Residents living in High Lane who depend upon this service may well be grateful for a similar pledge from Hazel Grove Lib Dem councillors and give High Lane and Hazel Grove residents the opportunity to sign the statement: ‘I, the undersigned, call on High Peak Buses / Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mon to Fri (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital Glossop to Stepping Hill route serves too many people without other means of transport’ on the Hazel Grove Liberal Democrat website.
A previous Conservative candidate for the Hazel Grove constituency is a big fan of Routemaster buses and has decided their easy hop-on, hop-off rear entrance make them ideal as mobile constituency surgeries.
(http://conservativehome.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/13/aabus.gif)
Annesley intends to take his double decker bus around Hazel Grove on a regular basis. He plans to take the bus to different parts of this LibDem-held seat on at least two weekends every month. Local residents will be encouraged to hop on board to collect literature, meet Annesley and other members of the local Conservative team. People will be invited to bring casework concerns with them.
Is the pledge for ‘Real Change in Hazel Grove’ shown on the constituency bus in fact a pledge to withdraw or reduce the frequency of the 394 service? Could Conservative Councillors for Hazel Grove Oliver Johnson and Julian Lewis-Booth recognise that buses, in addition to being ideal mobile constituency surgeries for the MP, provide patients with access to doctors’ surgeries and Stepping Hill Hospital and follow the example of prospective Conservative candidate John Bates’ example and also show their support by enabling their constituents to support the continuation of the 394 bus service by setting up an online petition showing their support for the service?
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Post from What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
Late thought,
Why don't you propose at the next Council meeting that the full Council debates the proposed withdrawal of the 394 bus service and its actions and consequences. A local issue that is really important to local people.
In fact at the earliest opportunity, I am going to see what the proposed motions are, for the next Council meeting and post them on this site. Then people can judge for themselves how relevant they are.
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Could Conservative Councillors for Hazel Grove Oliver Johnson and Julian Lewis-Booth recognise that buses, in addition to being ideal mobile constituency surgeries for the MP, provide patients with access to doctors’ surgeries and Stepping Hill Hospital and follow the example of prospective Conservative candidate John Bates’ example and also show their support by enabling their constituents to support the continuation of the 394 bus service by setting up an online petition showing their support for the service?
The petition is a constituency wide inititive, which has been promoted on the various websites we have and also on facebook and twitter pages, where many of our local activists have been sharing and re tweeting.
http://www.hgconservatives.com/home/394-bus
http://marplesouth.yourcllr.com/2016/02/25/394-bus/
https://twitter.com/johnbates_me_uk/status/702523098554310656
https://www.facebook.com/johnbates.me.uk/posts/940906112651945
Including @CllrKennyBlair @OliverJohnstone Sue Carroll (prospective candidate for HazelGrove Ward)
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Definitely more encouraging than Mr Wragg's site. Unfortunately it doesn't auger well that the bus shown in Mr Bate's photograph (fleet number 292) was withdrawn from service prior to 15th December 2015 (Source: Sheffield Onmibus Enthusiasts Society).
Just to cheer you up I managed to get a shot of a 394 today. Shutter speed too quick to display number though :(
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Just to cheer you up I managed to get a shot of a 394 today. Shutter speed to quick to display number though :(
Nice one! It is not often that that we get two photographs of buses in one day from the Conservative Party but more seriously thank you for taking up the campaign. With petitions from you and William Wragg on behalf of the Conservative Party, another from Sue Ingham from the LibDems, a third from Councillor Mckeown from the Labour Party and one from me on 38 degrees there is certainly a much greater awareness of the problem in Marple than there was a few days ago. :)
Details of my response from Transport for Greater Manchester coming up :(
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I have received the following response from Transport for Greater Manchester:-
'As you may be aware, during weekdays, service 394 is operated on a commercial basis by High Peak Buses. The Saturday service is subsidised by Derbyshire County Council with TfGM contributing to the service along routes within the Greater Manchester boundary.
From 25 March 2015 High Peak Buses has made the decision to withdraw the weekday journeys; however, this is not the result of TfGM reducing subsidy. Given TfGM's current funding concerns, TfGM officers are currently working with Derbyshire County Council to determine if it is possible to use the funding already used for the Saturday service in order to provide a limited weekday service.
TfGM are aware that Derbyshire County Council have issued a tender to seek a form of replacement of the 394 service and upon analysis of bids a decision will be made on what replacement service can be funded'.
I did ask the questions 'Could you provide clarification of the process of how providing funding for unprofitable services serving sparsely populated areas works? Who makes the decision about which services are subsidised and who determines the level of the subsidy?' but no reply to these questions was forthcoming from TfGM. Can any of our Councillors (or ex-Councillors) provide clarification?
The response from TfGM refers to 'current funding concerns' with no indication of how extra funding for this service could be provided to ensure the continuation of the Monday to Friday service. The economics of the 394 service are a little bit of an enigma to me. High Peak Buses have run the Monday to Friday service for two years without subsidy so it must have been operating with revenues from fares and payments from the Councils for concessionary travel and just about broken even (if this was not the case the company would have withdrawn from the service sooner). Wages have not risen by very much and the cost of diesel has plummeted and I don't think passenger numbers have fallen much, so unless I am missing some fixed cost eg. licensing, insurance or some other overhead cost which has risen substantially finances haven't changed much in the last two years. Are the bus company attempting to hold the Councils to ransom or has the shoestring upon which the company are operating genuinely finally snapped? High Peak Buses has a considerable investment operating a number of services services in the Glossop area (though rather ironically the obvious money spinner is the Stagecoach 236/237 to Ashton). If the figure of £350 (the 2013 figure) quoted by Cllr Mckeown is reallocated to Monday to Friday services for and the Saturday service is withdrawn we are looking at a subsidy of only £70 per day - chickenfeed.
BUT and it is a big BUT will the Conservative Party's grip on spending destroy the public transport infrastructure we currently possess and result in the word Cameron ultimately be spat out with the distaste that Beeching now evokes. Few will deny that massive closure of the railway network was one of the greatest mistakes ever made by the British government. Our roads are jammed with traffic and one very good reason matters are not a great deal worse is that the car sits in the garage when the bus pass arrives with the pension book. It is not just the people who are lucky enough to have a Concessionary Pass who benefit - it is every single motorist on the road because there is one less car queuing. Destroy the rural public transport system we have which incorporates routes such as the 394 and you will significantly increase the number of cars on our already overstretched roads, you destroy the lives of many people who can't afford to buy a car to travel to work and the lives of many people who are too old to drive or suffer a disability which prevents them driving.
I hope that our political representatives will be doing more than handing a list of names to TfGM and that they will be genuinely fighting to ensure the retention of bus services such as the 394 by ensuring that funding is provided even if it does mean an increase in our Council Tax.
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Councillor Kenny.....
Back to the 394 bus, which is a real local issue. Are you going to propose the motion at the next council meeting? Now that debate I really would appreciate.
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@Hoffnung Regarding the 394 Bus, I can certainly look into adding it to the Agenda, but as it is the Budget Council meeting, it is unlikely it will be added. (it is also unlikely I will be in attendance at the Full Council Meeting on Thursday as i will unfortunately be in Scotland). Would you like to propose the motion to debate? We can also ask questions of the Executive or TfGM representatives, which may be more appropriate or indeed you can even ask questions, as we have Public Question Time.
If payment of a subsidy for a bus service is not relevant to a Budget council meeting who is it relevant to? This is not intended to be a personal criticism or an attempt to be discourteous, it is a question about procedure. I am coming up against an informational brick wall relating to funding of an unprofitable bus service. Transport for Greater Manchester did not provide me with any information about how the magical 'Journey provided with the financial support of Transport for Greater Manchester' symbol' is attained. If public transport is not your specialist subject fair enough. I attended Council Meetings as a representative of Stockport MBC for a number of years and soon learnt that each of the six Councillor members has their specialist subjects and interests and that a single councillor cannot provide an answer on all of the incredibly diverse services provided by the Council but if this topic does not fall under the remit of the Budget Council meeting I would like to know which Council committee says 'Dear TfGM we need a subsidy for our bus service?' in order to ensure that the relevant Councillors discuss this matter before the deadline for withdrawal of the service is reached and so I can attend the discussion about the proposal to request funding from TfGM and to see just what our MP and local councillors have actually done and said. Please advise.
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@marplerambler The request was for a motion to debate and I advised it was unlikely to be added. Having looked at the Agenda, there are not just no motions, there isn't even a slot for any motions. I don't think this would be the correct avenue anyway. What I also suggested was that we could ask questions of the TfGM representatives or the Executive, either through me, another Councillor or as a public question.
Again, looking at the Agenda, I can see no slot for Executive Question time but there is a slot for Public Questions and indeed petitions. Public questions can be submitted up to 30 minutes before the start of the meeting and question cards are available from the Democratic Services officers at the Council meeting or at www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2986/45681/councilmeetingquestioncard?view=Standard
Alternatively, you can submit the question electronically using the Online Form at https://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/contents/councilquestions/
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Coming up to 150 signatures on the online petition for the 394 bus. If you want to see the service continue and haven't signed yet could you sign please?
The petition is at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ?
Comments so far include:
'I use this service several times a week, primarily because I use a bank in Marple and visit a housebound elderly friend who lives on the route. There is no readily accessible public transport alternative into Marple from where I live in Hazel Grove.'
' Stepping Hill needs better public transport links with the community it serves, not withdrawal of existing ones. '
'Another nail in the coffin of our inadequate public transport system in this area '
'Our Walking Group uses this bus regularly. '
'Use this service regularly to Stepping Hill and to visit friends in High Lane and am a fare paying customer '
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Let's hope that this campaign takes off and make a difference. I'm a frequent and regular user of the 394, but I live in Hazel Grove, which is why I'm a new arrival on this forum. The 394 serves my area as well as yours, and its friends and passengers need to club together all along its route to maximize its chances of surviving! I’ve signed "Rambler"'s "38 Degrees" petition, plus all the others that I’ve been able to find on line. Including the one on new Hazel Grove Tory MP William Wragg’s site – bit rich, that one, in that the Conservative government’s austerity agenda is hardly supportive of local authorities subsidizing loss-making bus routes on which numbers of people depend. Still, any port in a storm!
I’ve also used High Peak/Centrebus’s on-line “Contact Us” facility to argue the case for the retention of the service. The difficulty, of course, is that bus companies are businesses which need to turn a profit to survive, and the unhappy fate of Speedwell, the 394’s previous operator, shows that they don’t always manage to do so! So I put a couple of alternative suggestions to High Peak which I thought might attract more custom and so offer a chance to keep (just about!) profitable buses running along much or even all of the route, even if they no longer had the number 394 and didn’t directly link Glossop with Stepping Hill. But I’m just an ordinary bus passenger and no public transport economist, so the Centrebus strategic route planners might just laugh out loud at my suggestions.
There may be some hope that Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester will agree to subsidize the 394 once again, even with a reduced service; it had been subsidized for years right up to the time when Speedwell collapsed, High Peak took it on with a subsidy under an emergency contract when Speedwell went under, the subsidy was apparently set to continue when High Peak offered to continue the 394 commercially in order to stop Smith’s of Marple horning in with a lower quote than theirs, and the subsidy was restored on the 394’s Saturday service when High Peak said they couldn’t continue it without one. And I see from the Marple North prospective Tory candidate's site that Derbyshire CC has advertised for tenders both for continuing the present service and for operating a less frequent one.
But at the same time I see that Derbyshire County Council is currently holding a public consultation on the future of subsidized bus services in the county, in which one of the options is scrapping subsidies completely; councils are already being squeezed until the pips squeak, and George Osborne’s just hinted that because the economy’s not doing quite as well as he was suggesting only three months ago (well, fancy that!), public expenditure may be curtailed still further. More and more, this leaves councils focusing on their core functions - the things they're legally obliged to do, such as social care for the elderly and child protection, rather than the things they can choose to do but don't have to, like running libraries or subsidizing public transport. They just don't have the dosh to do it all.
So we just can’t be sure that this time round there’ll be the public money on offer to keep the 394 running six days a week. But what we surely do know is that if enough of us 394 users make a clamour, the service is more likely to survive than if we don’t! The thing that bugs me is that when it comes to supporting unprofitable but socially useful bus services we're solemnly told that the country has no money, but money suddenly becomes no object when it comes to renewing "Trident" or jacking up MPs' pay.
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I thought that 394 users and followers of this thread might be interested in my message to High Peak Buses via the "Contact Us" section of their website, and in their reply, e-mailed to me this morning. I notice that they make no comment at all on my attempt at a helpful suggestion as to possible alternatives if there's no public money forthcoming to restore the subsidy on the Monday > Friday service!
MY MESSAGE TO THEM:
I was dismayed to learn this week from one of your excellent drivers that HighPeak/Centrebus proposes to withdraw the Monday>Friday (untendered) 394 bus service at the end of March, as I use the service several times a week and sometimes more than once a day; I live close to the 199 and 394 bus routes on the outskirts of Hazel Grove, use a Marple bank which has no branch closer to my home, and regularly visit an elderly house-bound friend on the borders of Hawk Green. There is no straightforward public transport alternative to the 394 for accessing Marple from my area.
I appreciate that, since taking over this service at very short notice after the demise of "Speedwell", the company has been proactive in making efforts to encourage more patronage of the 394 service, notably by experimenting with the - presumably ultimately loss-making - extension from Stepping Hill into Stockport, that when costs are routinely greater than revenues commercial bus services can't be maintained indefinitely, and that in the current public expenditure climate local authorities are increasingly unable to maintain the existing networks of subsidized bus services. On the other hand, I'm also aware that back in 2012 TfGM and Derbyshire County Council were at that time prepared to continue the subsidy, and that High Peak offered to try to run the service on a commercial basis rather than surrender the route to Smith's of Marple!
However, we are where we are. I've signed a couple of petitions to local councillors which, if well supported by 394 users, will hopefully have some influence in encouraging TfGM and DCC to give favourable consideration to reinstating at least some degree of subsidy to enable the retention of the 394, even with a more limited frequency. But in present circumstances there is of course no way of knowing whether that will happen, which leaves me wondering whether there might be other more financially viable ways of retrieving at least something of the present 394 service.
For instance, might it be possible to consider extending the 62 Hayfield - New Mills - Marple service to Stepping Hill via the 394 routes, especially since Stepping Hill is the main local hospital for New Mills residents, whereas it isn't, on the whole, for folk who live in and around Glossop? And with that section of the 394 route thus served by an extended 62, I wonder if a Glossop - Stockport service which didn't have the long and time-consuming diversion via High Lane and Hazel Grove, and was, perhaps, "express" or "limited stop" between Marple and Stockport, might turn out more attractive to through passengers than the extended 394 proved to be - especially if DCC could be persuaded to put a little money into it for the benefit of residents in Charlesworth and Chisworth? I've no particular expertise in public transport economics, but I was a teenager in south Manchester when Dr Beeching slashed the railway network and, while it was quite reasonable to cut existing rail services which were little used, it surprised me back then that no real "lateral thinking" seemed to be given to utilizing existing track and stations to provide services into central Manchester which was where, back then, a very large number of people did want to go each day. Just a thought!
THEIR REPLY TO ME:
Dear Mr Ellis,
Thank you for your email and sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the planned withdrawal of the 394. I can confirm that from the 27th March this service will no longer operate Monday to Friday. The weekday service on the 394 is operated on an entirely commercial basis by High Peak Buses and over the past few years we have worked hard to try and build the route up in order maintain commerciality.
The timetable has been reviewed a number of times to try and improve passenger usage and in April 2015 we extended the service to Stockport Bus Station, by adding extra resources into the service in a bid to try and increase passenger numbers on the service. This change was promoted through a special 394 leaflet that was designed and produced for the service. However unfortunately, despite the extra resource we put into the service, passenger numbers continued to be low and the extension was withdrawn towards the end of October 2015. In addition to this a review of specific journeys on the route identified some poorly used journeys which were costing us an extra bus and therefore some early morning journeys on the service were also cancelled.
We have continued to monitor the service and unfortunately despite our best efforts to keep the service running, we have now reached a point where the operating costs of running the service are no longer being met and as a result we have had to withdraw the service. I understand that this decision may cause some inconvenience to some passengers, however at the same time I would like to assure you that this is not a decision that has been made lightly.
Unfortunately with the reducing government funding it is difficult for bus operators to maintain commerciality on services, however we will continue to work in partnership with the council to try and ensure that key bus links are maintained where possible.
I am aware that Derbyshire County Council have now issued a tender for the Monday to Friday 394 service to continue with funding support provided by them. At this point, the best advice I can give you is to contact the council for more information regarding this.
Once again thank you for taking the time to get in touch and sorry for any inconvenience caused as a result of the changes to the 394 service.
Kind Regards,
Bijel Mistry
Commercial Manager
CENTREBUS LTD your local bus service provider
PLANNING, DEVELOPMENT AND REVENUE
102 Cannock Street, Leicester, LE4 9HR
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LibDems have just produced a flier to go through all addresses en route with a petition stating 'I the undersigned, call on Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mondays to Fridays (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital route for residents of Marple, Hawk Green and High Lane to stepping Hill route serves many people without other means of transport.'
Is this flier or the LibDem petition worth the paper they are printed on? Centreline/High Peak Buses are very obviously losing money on this route and the petition for a continuation of the service should include a request for funding by Transport for Greater Manchester not a polite request that the company should continue to operate the service at a loss? Are the LibDems prepared to fight for funding for this service?
William Wragg MP and Prospective Councillor John Bates request on the Conservative petition is 'help keep the 394 on our roads, Monday-Friday.' but there is no hint of a commitment to fight for funding so I ask the Conservatives the same question as I asked the LibDems: are you prepared to fight for funding for this service?
My petition on 38Degrees requests that the appropriate MPs and councillors:-
'Save the Monday to Friday 394 bus service from Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital via Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple station, Marple, Hawk Green, Marple Ridge College, High Lane and Hazel Grove.'
Anyone using the route knows that an implicit requirement to save the 394 will need to be some funding from Transport for Greater Manchester (and Derbyshire County Council if the route is to continue to operate to Glossop.
Are both lis
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Anyone using the route knows that an implicit requirement to save the 394 will need to be some funding from Transport for Greater Manchester (and Derbyshire County Council if the route is to continue to operate to Glossop.
I am sure some funding will be required. Once we have a response to the tendering we will know how much. Until then it is difficult, as we have no idea of the sums involved. If amount is reasonable then finding the funding is definitely something I would support.
'I the undersigned, call on Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mondays to Fridays (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital route for residents of Marple, Hawk Green and High Lane to stepping Hill route serves many people without other means of transport.'
This wording, if accurate, does seem worthless. No company can continue making losses indefinitely. Surely the petition should be aimed at Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester?
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.... The burning question is, will Brexit mean a reprieve for the 394 bus?
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boris buses in Marple? :)
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I agree entirely with the points made by the two immediately previous posters. I e-mailed TfGM yesterday to ask if at this stage they are able to indicate, at least in principle, whether they might consider restoring a subsidy to the service, especially if Derbyshire County Council agrees to do so. Without such a commitment, my hunch is that a "saved" 394 would only run on the Derbyshire section of the route, from Glossop to Chisworth or, at best, between Glossop and Marple. I can't imagine Derbyshire CC being willing to be the sole funder of a subsidized service running a long way into a neighbouring authority, with local authority spending as tight as it is. As and when I get a response from TfGM, I'll copy it on to this thread.
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By the way, congratulations to "marplerambler" on his energy and effort in sticking up his notices. They seem to be on every bus stop in Hawk Green and High Lane. He even managed to startle my son from his Saturday morning reverie with the sound of sticky tape being pulled off the roll. There's a 394 bus stop by his gate! And did I actually spot one stuck to the window behind the driver on a 394 at the end of last week?
Councillor McKeown of Gamesley has had a similar idea. He'd put a batch of flyers on the 394 yesterday morning for passengers to pick up, urging people to sign his petition. A lady from Hawk Green travelling on the bus told me that she was going to photocopy one when she got home and intended to put copies through the letter boxes of all her neighbours. If the service does go down, it looks as if it certainly won't be without a fight!
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And did I actually spot one stuck to the window behind the driver on a 394 at the end of last week?
You certainly did! Guerrilla tactics. I have put up a few notices when I have been travelling on the bus. Unfortunately the drivers have now realised that these were being planted and when I have caught the same vehicle later in the day they have sometimes been taken down and placed on the dashboard so I have asked for them back and then reposted them somewhere else.
There are now 178 signatures on the petition. If you know anyone who use this service who has not signed, can you copy the link below and email it to them please.
My 38degrees petition states:
'To William Wragg MP, Andrew Bingham MP, Stockport and High Peak Councillors
Save the Monday to Friday 394 bus service from Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital via Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple station, marple, Hawk Green, Marple Ridge College, High Lane and Hazel Grove.'
Transport for Greater Manchester have, in fact, asked me to send the petition directly to TfGM but I will send a copy to the two MPs and to all of our Marple/Hazel Grove councillors.
The petition is at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ?
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02.03.2016 and 222 signatures on the online petition for the 394 bus. If you want to see the service continue and haven't signed yet could you sign please?
The petition is at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ?
New comments include:
'It is an important bus service, that if removed will have a negative impact on the travel of students, people visiting family and friends in hospital, commuters who use this service between Chisworth and Glossop/Marple. It just does not make any sense for this service to be stopped'
'I frequently use 394 bus for commuting and hospital appointment as I don't drive a car. Without 394, going to hospital and work would take much longer than now. Would you please reconsider withdrawn the services. '
'My granddaughter uses this bus to travel to school in Marple '
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Marple Lib Dems have reproduced on their website part of High Peak/Centrebus's response to their letter expressing their unhappiness about the proposal to withdraw the 394. It's identical to a paragraph in the response which I had from them, which suggests that they're simply sending out a standard "identikit" letter or e-mail to everyone who has made representations to them about the loss of the service without addressing people's individual points or concerns.
I think that suggests that High Peak's mind is made up, and that making representations to them is pretty certain to be wasted effort! If the 394 is going to be saved at all, its survival, in whole or in part, will depend on whether Derbyshire County Council, Transport for Greater Manchester or (hopefully!) both are prepared to reinstate financial support to subsidize the route. If people who use and value the service want to lobby for its retention, they clearly need to forget about High Peak and direct their efforts at TfGM and Derbyshire CC.
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Perhaps sadly worth noting here:
"Derbyshire County Council are proposing to withdraw all county council funding for subsidised buses from October 2017. This means that unless they can be run commercially they will stop."
http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2016/february/news_items/consultation_on_subsidised_buses_launched.asp
Services: http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Appendix%201%20-%20Supported%20Local%20Bus%20Services_tcm44-277439.pdf
Around here this appears to include all but five journeys of the 62 and even some subsidised early morning and evening 358 journeys - I'm not sure if this is the whole route or just between Hayfield and New Mills? But nevertheless it'd be another important link lost.
Saturday 394 is listed but notes "this may be subject to change"?
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TravelWatch NorthWest was originally formed as the North West Public Transport Users Forum in October 2003, and was renamed TravelWatch NorthWest (TWNW) in 2006. It is an independent Community Interest Company representing all users of public transport in the North West of England. .. Issues of concern to public transport users are debated and users have the opportunity to contribute and raise their own concerns.
TWNW's chief purpose is to influence, by research and campaigning, public transport policy in the NW always with the passengers' interests foremost.
TWNW works closely with Local Authorities and Transport Operators and other stakeholders to help maintain a high profile for public transport in the quest for investment and improvements for passengers.
My Email to BusUsersUK/Travelwatch North West.
I am attempting to gain support for a fight against withdrawal of the service through a local community website Marple Community Forum (Topic; 394 bus service). Any advice relating to fighting an effective campaign in a period of only five weeks would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Response:
'My apologies for not replying to you sooner.
I do share your concerns about High Peak Buses' planned withdrawal of the 394 bus service. Unfortunately, as matters stand it is entirely up to the operator to determine which commercial services it wishes to operate and the local authority has no statutory powers to change such decisions.
Notwithstanding this I am copying in local Councillors, High Peak buses and Transport for Greater Manchester so they are aware of your valid arguments and to consider whether anything can be done.'
There is not much evidence in this reply of attempting to implement their primary aims ie 'to influence, by research and campaigning, public transport policy in the NW always with the passengers' interests foremost' or to 'maintain a high profile for public transport in the quest for investment and improvements for passengers.'
TFNW incorporates a special section dedicated to news releases yet there has been no comment on the swingeing cuts highlighted by rsh even though cross-county services into Derbyshire may well result in a significant reduction in services in Greater Manchester and what seems to be devastation of the bus network in Derbyshire.
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I've had a response from Transport for Greater Manchester to my recent e-mail asking whether they've reached any conclusion as to what their response to High Peak's decision to "pull" the Monday - Friday 394 is going to be. I'm reproducing their reply below:
Dear Mr Ellis
RE: 394 Bus Service
Thank you for contacting Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) in relation to the
withdrawal of the 394 bus service. I was sorry to read of your concerns caused by the
announcement of this service withdrawal.
As you may be aware, during weekdays, service 394 is operated a commercial basis
by High Peak Buses. The Saturday service is subsidised by Derbyshire County Council
with TfGM contributing to the service along routes within the Greater Manchester
boundary.
From 25 March 2016, High Peak Buses has made the decision to withdraw the
weekday journeys; however, this is not a result of TfGM reducing subsidy. Given
TfGM’s and Derbyshire’s current funding concerns, TfGM officers are currently
working with Derbyshire Country Council to determine if it is possible to use funding
already used for the Saturday service in order to provide a limited weekday service.
TfGM are aware that Derbyshire County Council have issued a tender to seek a form
of replacement of the 394 service and upon analysis of the bids a decision will be
made on what replacement service can be funded.
I hope that this information proves useful to you and if there is anything further I can
help you with, please do not hesitate to contact me or another member of our
Customer Relations team at customer.relations@tfgm.com.
Yours Sincerely
Anthony Kelly
Customer Engagement Officer
On the basis of this, it looks like the best we can hope for is something, but not much. The 394 might just survive in some vestigial form, but if - as it sounds - they're thinking essentially of stretching the subsidy they're already putting in to maintain the Saturday service so that it also covers the other six days of the week, the resultant service looks likely to be very thin indeed!
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I understand Derbyshire County Council will be making a decision next week. I also understand they are less disposed to funding the service than Transport for Greater Manchester.
We should know what is proposed by end of next week.
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I understand Derbyshire County Council will be making a decision next week. I also understand they are less disposed to funding the service than Transport for Greater Manchester.
We should know what is proposed by end of next week.
Yes I think you are right here John, they are less keen on public transport. I remember reading an article about 20 years ago where they were considering removing the subsidy for trains from Glossop to Broadbottom. Gladly this didn't happen.
Its an issue for the people in the High Peak but I've always felt that Glossop and New Mills would be better off in Greater Manchester as we have more links with them than Derby.
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Its an issue for the people in the High Peak but I've always felt that Glossop and New Mills would be better off in Greater Manchester as we have more links with them than Derby.
Derbyshire is a very oddly shaped county. Most of it would benefit from being absorbed into the bordering local authorities.
I used to live across the border in Glossop for a short while and the correspondence you would get from the council, or read in the local paper was quite funny.
When the tip was closed we were advised that the nearest one we could use in the meantime was in Buxton (not Marple or StalyVegas)
Anyone local up before the beak gets dragged to the Magistrates court in, Chesterfield.
Because of my postcode at the time I was always enrolled into the Derbyshire branch of organisations (whose activities were always centred around Derby) rather than more local branches in Greater Manchester or Cheshire.
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But if the Glossop tip was closed why would you think or be advised to use the Marple facilities for which you as a Derbyshire Council tax payer had made no contribution.
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But if the Glossop tip was closed why would you think or be advised to use the Marple facilities for which you as a Derbyshire Council tax payer had made no contribution.
Spectacularly missing my point there.
I was illustrating how daft it is that High Peak in particular (but the whole of Derbyshire really) is in a separate County.
Of course Derbyshire Council aren't going to tell Derbyshire residents to use Stockport or Tameside tips - although a sensible solution would have been to redirect the money saved whilst the glossop tip was inaccessible to either Tameside or Stockport so residents could legitimately do what they were almost certainly going to do anyway. But as a rule, councils tend not to do the sensible thing, especially if it means playing nicely with the other children.
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Councillor Anthony McKeown of Gamesley has today put an update on his website in which, as well as letting his readers know about the "save the 394" petitions in Marple, he says:
"In terms of what’s happening with regards to 394 - the news is encouraging and, we are hoping to have additional information, toward the middle to the end of next week."
More positive than the impression that I got from TfGM, and for that matter those of other recent posters on this thread. Still, he's a High Peak borough councillor and therefore more likely to be "in the loop" as to what's going on than I am, so I'm daring to hope for the best ... !
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08.03.2016 and 310 signatures on the online petition for the continuation of the hourly 394 bus Monday to Friday service with a request for an appropriate subsidy. If you want to see the service continue and haven't signed yet could you sign please?
The petition is at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1 ?
I shall be presenting this petition to Transport for Greater Manchester within the next few days (and also sending a copy to our MP William Wragg, Andrew Bingham MP and Marple/Hazel Grove councillors).
Thank you to Marple LibDems for the support they have given to this 38degrees petition in addition to the LibDems petition supporting continuation of this service and also to Conservatives William Wragg MP and John Bate's petition for continuation of the service
Recent reasons for signing the petition include:-
'The service is used by students travelling to Marple Ridge College at various times of the day: withdrawal will restrict students to travel on the peak time college services only. '
'Daughter uses this service everyday to travel too and from college'
'People use this service to travel to College/Hospital why not make cut backs on a service that runs every 10min instead of one that runs every hour '
'stop people driving '
'I use this bus regularly to travel between Marple and Stepping Hill Hospital because this is where I work.'
'I have used this service for shopping in Marple & Stockport'
'I am the caretaker of Charlesworth school and need to be onsite at 7am the 394 is the only bus that takes me there, without this I lose my job.'
'So this is an example of the Northern Powerhouse ? Pathetic decision if this goes ahead '
'i need this service to shop in marple also i work weekends so cannot do my shopping then we need this service if anything it should be more frequent '
'I visit Stepping Hill about twice a month and use this service. '
'I've no transport and rely on this service for my shopping as do many elderly residents of High Lane. '
'I work for Marple Sixth Form College and lots of our students rely on this service'
'It is an important bus service, that if removed will have a negative impact on the travel of students, people visiting family and friends in hospital, commuters who use this service between Chisworth and Glossop/Marple. It just does not make any sense for this service to be stopped '
'I frequently use 394 bus for commuting and hospital appointment as I don't drive a car. Without 394, going to hospital and work would take much longer than now. Would you please reconsider withdrawn the services.'
'I use this service several times a week, primarily because I use a bank in Marple and visit a housebound elderly friend who lives on the route. There is no readily accessible public transport alternative into Marple from where I live in Hazel Grove'
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According to the LibDems' web site the "394 is Saved!"
Quoting @CllrGeoffAbell on 9 March, 2016:
I am very happy to report that a funding arrangement has allowed the 394 service to continue as a subsidised service.
We as councillors have worked with officers behind the scenes to preserve what will be a 2-hourly Mon-Fri service run by High Peak to start on 29 March. There is a provisional timetable.
Many thanks to all those that filled out petitions, proving this is a service that we care about!
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It is mostly good news as the morning services look similar as it was only possible to be at SHH from Marple for either 7.30 or 9.30. However the 4.38 from SHH to Marple will be missed with people finishing work about that time having to get the 375 or 2 buses home. Still it is better than the aternative. Well done to everyone that made a difference in this.
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Provisional Timetable attached.
Lots of effort to get this, not least from @marplerambler and many others, plus lobbying across the political spectrum.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thank you to all involved in helping to retain the 394 from those of us in Glossopdale.
Regards
Anthony.
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Thank you to all involved in helping to retain the 394 from those of us in Glossopdale.
Regards
Anthony.
And many thanks to you to :)
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My very sincere personal thanks to all those who have lobbied hard, in the end with greater success than I feared might be the case, to keep the 394 going in some form, even though the service we'll be getting from the end of this month will be considerably reduced. The outcome shows that a combination of pressure from the public and cross-party lobbying from councillors and activists can still have an impact, even when local authority finances are squeezed as severely as they currently are. Particular thanks to "marplerambler" who has publicized the campaign to retain the 394 so comprehensively and energetically at the Marple and High Lane end of the route, and to Cllr Anthony McKeown who has clearly put so much effort in at the Gamesley and Glossop end.
Unfortunately it's not a total victory, with the weekday service cut by half and the Saturday service lost completely. But that's still better than nowt, and better than I'd feared! Unfortunately this may turn out to ber a temporary reprieve. Given that Derbyshire County Council is currently putting out for consultation a proposal which includes the ending of all financial assistance to loss-making rural bus services from October of next year, we may well find that the 394 is once again facing the axe in eighteen months' time.
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Do we know how much this is all costing us?
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Do we know how much this is all costing us?
Just above £60,000 per year, according to Cllr Anthony McKeown. The cost to be shared between Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester according to the proportion of the route running through each of their areas. And - if I read him correctly - partially mitigated by the abandonment of the 394's Saturday service, and by a significant reduction of the subsidized Sunday service on route 202 between Glossop and Hyde.
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Thanks to all across Marple who signed all petitions here. I think this was the best we could expect but it is a reduced service. I also thank officers in DCC and TfGM who helped keep the service alive. TfGM will confirm their arrangements tomorrow.
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Many thanks for all you efforts Geoff, just shows what Lib Dems ( Marple ) and Labour ( Glossop) can achieve when working together with the community.
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I understand that as well as final TfGM approval there are a few details still to be finalised with contracts. Therefore, hopefully, service is saved but it is not certain till everything signed.
Thanks to all for the work put in.
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Saw the 13:10 go past earlier and it full to the rafters. Clearly the service is being used.
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Perhaps folks have woken up to the fact they must use it or lose it. All the times I've seen it it in recent months - both before & after the threat of withdrawal - at two different points on the route - it's been very quiet
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Just above £60,000 per year, according to Cllr Anthony McKeown.
Ok. That works out at about £39 per return journey according to my calculations.
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Ok. That works out at about £39 per return journey according to my calculations.
If the nation can afford an 11% hike in MPs' pay, total refurbishment of the Palace of Westminster and the cost of renewing Trident, it can probably just about manage to keep a drastically reduced 394 bus service running Mondays to Fridays only. And in terms of the public good and of value for money, keeping the bus is arguably a better use of those "scarce resources" they keep banging on about!
Perhaps folks have woken up to the fact they must use it or lose it. All the times I've seen it it in recent months - both before & after the threat of withdrawal - at two different points on the route - it's been very quiet
I use the 394 frequently, and the fact is that, while I've never seen it "packed to the rafters", sometimes it's reasonably full and sometimes it's nearly empty. Usage varies quite a bit - as an instance, I travel regularly from Hazel Grove to Marple and back once a week at the same times, and sometimes the bus has eight or nine passengers and at other times only a couple.
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I have just got back from the TfGM bus committee. They are happy with subsidising the service at our end.
However, there is still some issues with the operator, so it is not yet a done deal as I'd thought.
I'll tell everyone what I can when I can.
In the meanwhile it was great seeing the 310 signatures on the online part of our petition, proving people en masse still have an impact. And of course we were not alone - @marplerambler and other parties contributed too.
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In the meanwhile it was great seeing the 310 signatures on the online part of our petition, proving people en masse still have an impact. And of course we were not alone - @marplerambler and other parties contributed too.
My tally is 350+ online signatures at 38 degrees 'Save Our 394' petition and 60+ signatures from people who were standing at the bus stops when I was putting up notices.
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I have just got back from the TfGM bus committee. They are happy with subsidising the service at our end.
However, there is still some issues with the operator, so it is not yet a done deal as I'd thought.
I'll tell everyone what I can when I can.
In the meanwhile it was great seeing the 310 signatures on the online part of our petition, proving people en masse still have an impact. And of course we were not alone - @marplerambler and other parties contributed too.
I was told yesterday afternoon by another user (obviously not officially) that the service is to be saved for Monday to Friday but only as a two hourly service and the Saturday service scrapped. Oh, big deal but better than nothing, I suppose.
Bravo to all who signed.
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The offer being considered is a 2-hourly Mon-Fri subsidised service. (This means the operator using a single bus with an annual amount of money from both GM and Derbyshire, rather than the 2 as at present.) I am pushing hard to get this. And I have had more emails on this subject than any other. Happy to have more!
Absolutely, this is better than nothing. And nothing was a possibility in these cash-strapped times. (When are they ever going to end?)
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Following some further discussions, the arrangement have now been completely confirmed for the revised service, along with an extension until the end of April for the current Saturday service - time table attached below.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Following some further discussions, the arrangement have now been completely confirmed for the revised service, along with an extension until the end of April for the current Saturday service - time table attached below.
Thanks for the timetable, Anthony
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Below is full details from Derbyshire Council. Also see re their consultation which may mean withdrawal of their support in Sept 2017.
Please find attached timetable for local bus service 394 from Tuesday 29 March 2016. The timetable is also available on the Council’s local bus website www.derbysbus.info The current Saturday service will remain the same until the end of April and will then be withdrawn unfortunately. The last day of operation will be Saturday 30 April.
Glossop • Gamesley • Marple • Stepping Hill Hospital 394
Monday to Friday
Glossop, Market Hall 0640 0838 1038 1238 1438 1638 … … … … … … …
Gamesley, Hollins Lane 0649 0848 1048 1248 1448 1648 … … … … … … …
Charlesworth, George & Dragon 0653 0853 1053 1253 1453 1653 … … … … … … …
Chisworth, Hunters Inn 0656 0856 1056 1256 1456 1656 … … … … … … …
Lane Ends Inn 0700 0900 1100 1300 1500 1700 … … … … … … …
Marple Bridge, Norfolk Arms 0704 0904 1104 1304 1504 1704 … … … … … … …
Marple, Navigation 0710 0910 1110 1310 1510 1710 … … … … … … …
Hawk Green, Crown Hotel 0714 0914 1114 1314 1514 1714 … … … … … … …
High Lane, Horse Shoe Inn 0719 0919 1119 1319 1519 1719 … … … … … … …
Hazel Grove, Rising Sun 0725 0925 1125 1325 1525 1725 … … … … … … …
Stepping Hill Hospital 0730 0930 1130 1330 1530 1730 … … … … … … …
Stepping Hill Hospital 0730 0938 1138 1338 1538 1738 … … … … … … …
Hazel Grove, Rising Sun 0736 0944 1144 1344 1544 1744 … … … … … … …
High Lane, Horse Shoe Inn 0742 0950 1150 1350 1550 1750 … … … … … … …
Hawk Green, Crown Hotel 0747 0955 1155 1355 1555 1755 … … … … … … …
Marple, Navigation 0751 0959 1159 1359 1559 1759 … … … … … … …
Marple Bridge, Norfolk Arms 0757 1005 1205 1405 1605 1805 … … … … … … …
Lane Ends Inn 0801 1009 1209 1409 1609 1809 … … … … … … …
Chisworth, Bus Shelter 0806 1014 1214 1414 1614 1814 … … … … … … …
Charlesworth, George & Dragon 0809 1017 1217 1417 1617 1817 … … … … … … …
Gamesley, Hollins Lane 0813 1022 1222 1422 1622 1822 … … … … … … …
Glossop, Henry Street 0825 1033 1233 1433 1633 1833 … … … … … … …
This service will operate until 29 September 2017 when all supported local bus services will be withdrawn.
Please could you help draw attention to the local bus and community transport consultation that is currently taking place. The Council would like to consult residents on proposals to end support for local bus services. We currently support over 130 local bus services in the County and these would not exist without the financial support we provide. We really need as many people as possible to complete the questionnaire and let us have their views on local buses. The questionnaire is available online at www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transportchanges .
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Calling a "two hourly service" a "service" is not very truthful.
At best it is a short turn option for none car owners until they can move to an area with public transport. I can't see a car driver using a bus if it is not at least a half hourly service.
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I passed the largely empty 394 this morning. I wonder how many people actually use it. I also wonder what journeys people use it for. How many travel the full distance and if not, where do most people get on and off?
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I can only speak for myself, but I have used it to visit patients at Stepping Hill, travelling from Marple and return. I have also occasionally gone to Glossop. The hospital service is the one which will be most missed judging from my conversations with other (mainly elderly) residents in Marple.
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I can well understand people using the service to go from Marple to Stepping Hill. I can also understand people wanting to travel between Marple and Glossop. I find it a bit harder to see many people travelling from Glossop to Stepping Hill. I wonder if a Marple - Stepping Hill service might be more viable than the existing route and with a greater frequency. This might still mean a subsidy for a Marple - Glossop service though.
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Well as far as I can judge from my use of the bus to Glossop it always fills up from Charlesworth onward and as Derbyshire CC are providing half the required support for the service your comments do seem to have a Marple centric view of the world. I would have thought we would have learnt that this service was saved by communities working together not by seeking to devise them.
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I passed the largely empty 394 this morning. I wonder how many people actually use it. I also wonder what journeys people use it for. How many travel the full distance and if not, where do most people get on and off?
What time .
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I can well understand people using the service to go from Marple to Stepping Hill.
I'm not sure if this is still true post the revised timetable but to take a "Marple Centric view" - the clues in the forum title - it's a pity there isn't more offset between the 394 & 375 which depart from Stepping Hill within a few minutes of each other a lot of the time, and the same was true getting there
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What time .
About 07:50, heading in the Glossop direction. Not perhaps the most typical service I admit.
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I use it often as am sometimes based at Stepping Hill and parking is truly dreadful...
I mostly use the 7.14am early bus but use the daytimes ones too. I am rarely the only person on it but it can be quiet.
I often see many elderly people getting on in HG or High Lane to Marple. I know some college students who use it to get to Marple College from Glossop.
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I can well understand people using the service to go from Marple to Stepping Hill. I can also understand people wanting to travel between Marple and Glossop. I find it a bit harder to see many people travelling from Glossop to Stepping Hill. I wonder if a Marple - Stepping Hill service might be more viable than the existing route and with a greater frequency. This might still mean a subsidy for a Marple - Glossop service though.
I find it a bit harder to see many people travelling from Glossop to Stepping Hill
Technically, the hospital that covers Glossop is the Tameside Hospital. I know plenty of people, including me when I lived in Hyde, who would willingly be nursed and treated in a tent in a field than be referred to Tameside. Consequently, given a choice, many people of my acquaintance who live in the Glossop area prefer Stepping Hill Hospital.
There are also people working at S.Hill who live in the Glossop area and use the bus, students travelling from the Glossop area to College in Marple and from the Stockport area to the equine studies courses run by Kirklees (Huddersfield) College at Hargate Hill in Charlesworth.
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I can well understand people using the service to go from Marple to Stepping Hill. I can also understand people wanting to travel between Marple and Glossop. I find it a bit harder to see many people travelling from Glossop to Stepping Hill. I wonder if a Marple - Stepping Hill service might be more viable than the existing route and with a greater frequency. This might still mean a subsidy for a Marple - Glossop service though.
The 394 has run along its present route for donkeys' years, at least since the 1970s, though at first it used to terminate at Hazel Grove railway station rather than Stepping Hill, and I think in very early days it had a different route number. Taken as a whole it does seem an unlikely route, and I too have long wondered why some bus company in the mists of time - probably the old "North Western" - thought linking Glossop with Hazel Grove rather than with Stockport was a good idea.
When High Peak Buses experimented last year with extending the route into Stockport in the hope of increasing patronage, as a frequent 394 user I thought they were on a hiding to nothing. I could see that linking Glossop and Stockport might attract custom - no other public transport service links the towns directly - but couldn't see people cheerfully using a service which diverted via High Lane and Hazel Grove and took an hour and a quarter to complete a journey that by the shortest route is only nine miles.
So when I wrote my initial lobbying letter to High Peak I asked them if they'd done any "thinking outside the box" before they'd settled on the decision to withdraw the service - perhaps extending the 62 Hayfield - New Mills - Marple service to Stepping Hill via the present 394 route - given that New Mills folk use Stepping Hill Hospital whereas Glossop folk tend not to - and operating the 394 from Glossop into Stockport using the shortest and most obvious route via Offerton, and perhaps running express/limited stop beween Marple and Stockport to speed up the journey to make it more attractive to shoppers and commuters. After all, there's no shortage of buses lonking Marple with Stockport.
High Peak chose not to respond to that particular question. Indeed, to judge from comments made on this forum and elsewhere, I suspect that everyone who contacted them via letter or e-mail got an identical, pre-prepared and standard response. When buses were deregulated in the mid-1980s, the result around Stockport was an immediate flowering of new, innovative and imaginative bus routes by a whole variety of operators, old and new - remember Bee Line, Little Gems, Glossopdale, Pennine Blue, Mayne, Bullocks? - and some of those new services were taken up enthusiastically by bus users and are running still, thirty years later. But unfortunately we seem to have drifted back into a situation in which one of the big player bus combines once again dominates the bus market in the majority of areas, and the small innovators prepared to try something new and imaginative have been driven out of the business
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When buses were deregulated in the mid-1980s, the result around Stockport was an immediate flowering of new, innovative and imaginative bus routes by a whole variety of operators, old and new - remember Bee Line, Little Gems, Glossopdale, Pennine Blue, Mayne, Bullocks? - and some of those new services were taken up enthusiastically by bus users and are running still, thirty years later.
Yes, I remember those clapped out old buses that clogged up our roads after deregulation! But are any of those services really still running now?
And I liked this bit:
.... operating the 394 from Glossop into Stockport using the shortest and most obvious route via Offerton, and perhaps running express/limited stop beween Marple and Stockport to speed up the journey.
Express? Via Offerton??? ;D
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How do they get away with pouring out thick black smoke while crawling up Brabyns?
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Yes, I remember those clapped out old buses that clogged up our roads after deregulation! But are any of those services really still running now?
I was living in Cheadle Heath back then, and I can't recall what new services might have been started round Marple at that time, or how they fared in the longer term. But in and around Cheadle Heath, the 11 (Stockport - Altrincham via Wythenshawe), the 23 (Stockport - Didsbury - Chorlton - Stretford - Trafford Centre) and the 309/310 (Cheadle Circular) all started immediately after deregulation, took off, were well used, and are running still. Though of course Stagecoach, which gradually carved for itself a near-monopoly, now operate all of them.
And while there were certainly some cowboyish companies running ancient buses - notoriously, later, on the Manchester - East Didsbury via Wilmslow Road routes - most that I recall in the early days of deregulation had pretty decent new or nearly new vehicles: Bee Line, "Little Gems", Crosville, Bullocks, Walls.
And I liked this bit:
Express? Via Offerton??? ;D
Point taken: I moved in the '90s from Cheadle Heath to Hawk Green, and then discovered for myself the peak hour reality of Dan Bank to Offerton Green!
I should really have just said "limited stop"; but as bus companies these days prefer the term "express" I naively followed suit.