Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Chadwick Street / Trinity Street Development => Topic started by: amazon on November 09, 2014, 03:52:05 PM

Title: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 09, 2014, 03:52:05 PM
The proposed supermarket on Chadwick stree has been put on hold .no one interested now that Asda are
Taking on the coop .so the wonderful councilors say . If they had let Kirkland do it we may have had a supermarket on that site .soon .waste of time they are our councillors  .


Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on November 10, 2014, 01:05:52 PM
No surprise there, and I don't think the outcome would have been any different if Kirkland were still the developer. That was always an unattractive and uneconomic site for a supermarket, as some of us pointed out a year or two ago.  And I doubt whether the Asda takeover of the Co-op site (if it ever happens) has made any difference.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 10, 2014, 01:45:00 PM
No surprise there, and I don't think the outcome would have been any different if Kirkland were still the developer. That was always an unattractive and uneconomic site for a supermarket, as some of us pointed out a year or two ago.  And I doubt whether the Asda takeover of the Co-op site (if it ever happens) has made any difference.
Why do you say if it ever happens do you know something that no one else does .feb supposed to be when they take over .
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on November 10, 2014, 02:19:33 PM
Just a sneaky feeling - I may be wrong.  Look at the financial difficulties all the big supermarket chains are in.  Is this a time for expansion?  It doesn't feel like it! 
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: simonesaffron on November 10, 2014, 03:00:48 PM
The proposed supermarket on Chadwick stree has been put on hold .no one interested now that Asda are
Taking on the coop .so the wonderful councilors say . If they had let Kirkland do it we may have had a supermarket on that site .soon .waste of time they are our councillors  .




It's the sensible thing to do at the moment Amazon. We can't just go and rack up a huge supermarket on a major car parking facility in town. We quite clearly need to know more about Asda's plans for Maple.     
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Bowden Guy on November 10, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
It wonder if a standard Aldi store woukd fit in the footprint currently occupied by Duddys?
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: JMC on November 10, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
I heard a rumour that Aldi were looking round the Coop.. Surely it is too big though for them and I thought Asda was a done deal.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Franz on November 10, 2014, 04:31:54 PM
Poynton keeps marching on, four supermarkets in the town centre, and now Aldi have purchased a site in the town which already has planning permission for a supermarket
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on November 11, 2014, 10:03:25 AM
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Co-op ended up as an Aldi.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Barbara on November 11, 2014, 11:23:26 AM
I do hope you are wrong Dave - I have nothing against Aldi and shop there regularly, but you can't get everything there (nor at the Co-op, of course).  There are already four Aldi stores within easy reach, with adequate parking and access by public transport.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 11, 2014, 02:24:12 PM
Just a sneaky feeling - I may be wrong.  Look at the financial difficulties all the big supermarket chains are in.  Is this a time for expansion?  It doesn't feel like it! 

so why have they just buiit a new one in Redish ,
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 11, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
It wonder if a standard Aldi store woukd fit in the footprint currently occupied by Duddys?

why is Duddys still for sale .no parking
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on November 11, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
so why have they just buiit a new one in Redish ,

Because it was already being planned two or three years ago, when the big supermarket chains were still making good money.  Times have changed.



Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Bowden Guy on November 11, 2014, 03:28:08 PM
Something doesn't need to be "for sale" for it to be saleable.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: My login is Henrietta on November 11, 2014, 04:17:15 PM
so why have they just buiit a new one in Redish ,
There was a snippet on the news yesterday about Aldi announcing plans to spend £600m on more stores and to employ 35,000 more staff.

Obviously not in the next few weeks and the number of employment places have been questioned by "a retail analyst", what ever one of those is.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: My login is Henrietta on November 11, 2014, 04:20:06 PM
I heard a rumour that Aldi were looking round the Coop.. Surely it is too big though for them and I thought Asda was a done deal.
Not so sure about the Co-op being too big for Aldi's purposes. The Glossop Aldi isn't a lot smaller and that has dreadful parking.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on November 12, 2014, 08:12:43 AM
I heard a rumour that Aldi were looking round the Coop.. Surely it is too big though for them and I thought Asda was a done deal.

Done deals can become undone deals. I became a bit suspicious when the handover date was put back from September to next Feb.  'The opera ain't over till the fat lady sings', as they say.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Barbara on November 12, 2014, 03:50:58 PM
Have just been into the Co-op and asked a member of staff if there was any basis for the rumours that Asda were thinking again about taking over.  I was assured that there wasn't, and in fact some Asda staff were actually in today sorting plans out.  So, we just wait and see ...........
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 12, 2014, 08:08:35 PM
Have just been into the Co-op and asked a member of staff if there was any basis for the rumours that Asda were thinking again about taking over.  I was assured that there wasn't, and in fact some Asda staff were actually in today sorting plans out.  So, we just wait and see ...........

soon be feb ,
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Phil on November 13, 2014, 08:42:39 PM
Any chance of splitting this topic in 3?

I guess it started out something to do with Chadwick Street, morphed into a (fairly interesting) discussion on whether the Asda takeover of the Co-op was still on, and is now about to descend into a spat about Tax Credits and Daily Mail sensationalism...

Back to the Co-op... Was it ever established who owned the car park? I have a vague recollection there was some doubt as to whether to Co-op had legal title. If they don't I suspect the Asda lawyers are currently tying themselves in knots....

RH.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: amazon on November 13, 2014, 09:05:22 PM
Back to the Co-op... Was it ever established who owned the car park? I have a vague recollection there was some doubt as to whether to Co-op had legal title. If they don't I suspect the Asda lawyers are currently tying themselves in knots....

RH.
Yet another topic it was said the coal board .owned the car park .....

Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: red666bear on May 02, 2016, 04:28:17 PM
We are still here and going nowhere.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on May 02, 2016, 05:00:45 PM
A timely reminder from red666bear that over two years ago, in February 2014, SMBC resolved ' that the Corporate Directors for Corporate and Support Services and for Place Management & Regeneration, in conjunction with the Executive Councillors (Corporate, Customer & Community Services) and (Economic Development & Regeneration) be authorised to bring forward the delivery of a retail scheme on Chadwick Street, Marple utilising the Stockport Strategic Property Partnership.'

Does anyone know what's happening?  If anything?
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: admin on May 02, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
There was a report presented to Marple AC in March this year.

Here's a link: http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s90067/Chadwick%20Street%20Marple%20-%20final%20report.pdf

Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on May 02, 2016, 05:34:30 PM
Thanks Mark, that's interesting - though reading between the lines, not very encouraging.  red666bear may well be right!   
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: marpleexile on May 02, 2016, 07:12:16 PM
Thanks Mark, that's interesting - though reading between the lines, not very encouraging.  red666bear may well be right!

Nothing was ever actually going to happen though, was it? The planning permission was just a proof of concept spoiling tactic to allow the refusal of planning permission for a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane college site. With that well and truly dead, SMBC will be just doing the bare minimum to give the appearance of action until such a time as they can safely stop without triggering challenges over the refused planning permission.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on May 03, 2016, 10:32:09 AM
Marpleexile's view is cynical but, I fear, probably correct.

Compare and contrast:

Poynton. Pop 14,000.  A thriving shopping centre.  Four supermarkets (Asda, Morrisons, Co-op, Waitrose) catering for all markets.   Good local shops which seem to be doing very well.  Poynton attracts shoppers from quite a wide area  because it's pleasant, and above all because the range of shops means the shoppers know they will be able to find what they want.

Marple. Pop 23,000.  A very mixed shopping centre - some local shops doing well, others appearing to struggle.  Despite the much bigger population, only two supermarkets (Asda and a small Co-op).   Far from attracting shoppers into Marple, the flow here is in the other direction - many of us prefer to go elsewhere to shop because Asda doesn't always meet our requirements.

So there you are.   You can't turn the clock back, but it's hard to resist speculating on what might have been. 

1.   We know that the Co-op would have sold up, come what may, because they made a national decision to sell off all their larger supermarkets.

2.   If by that time the Asda Hibbert Lane scheme had already been going ahead, obviously the Co-op would have found a different buyer.

3.   If that other buyer had been a different kind of supermarket (Sainsbury's, Waitrose, even - gulp! - M&S!), we would now have a proper choice of supermarkets in Marple, just as Poynton does, and that would have helped to retain shoppers in Marple, to the benefit of all of us.
 
But thanks to our councillors, we are where we are.........
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: ringi on May 03, 2016, 05:18:10 PM
The new supermarkets in Poynton is on a road that lots of people drive along, so it may get used by people that are "just passing" rather then someone that has gone to Poynton to shop.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: chicken lady on May 03, 2016, 07:36:30 PM
When I lived in Marple, although I used local butchers and greengrocers for all meat and veg, as well as Sainsburys Hazel Grove, I quite often went to Poynton to shop, it was a much more pleasant experience than the co-op!
Realise this is a long sentence, I'm sure the grammar pedant will check it!
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Condate on May 03, 2016, 09:21:58 PM
More supermarkets are the last thing Marple needs. One of the nice things about living here is not having lots of supermarkets. There is no need for them. We have one and used to have a vastly superior one until the Co-op moved. The shopping in Marple is suberb. I used to live in Northwich (what a surprise!) which has Sainsbury's Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Waitrose, M&S and a Co-op just closed and an Asda about to open and of course an almost empty town centre. I was very glad to move somewhere without such a pointless array of superfluous supermarkets. Marple is far superior in terms of shops. There are few things you need to go out of Marple for. When my sister came to vist recently, she commented on how lucky we are in Marple to have such excellent shopping here.

Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Hoffnung on May 04, 2016, 11:07:13 AM
Though they played a part in it I don't think that we can entirely blame the councillors.

In 2013/14 SMBC approached all the large supermarkets with the exception of Asda and Lidl to see if they had any interest in coming to Marple, specifically Chadwick Street.

M&S said the would 'consider it' but they didn't seem very enthusiastic AND they wanted 'appearance money' and they were talking in the £millions.

Sainsbury's, Tesco & Morrisons were going through a difficult period and were just not interested in any kind of expansion.

Waitrose didn't consider that Marple was within its market.

Aldi were interested but some of the local Councillors didn't want them. As well as this some of the local Councillors didn't want any additional supermarket facility. 

Personally, I think they were right and I find myself agreeing with   
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Hoffnung on May 04, 2016, 11:11:29 AM
 Condate, another supermarket is the last thing Marple needs.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on May 04, 2016, 01:17:29 PM
More supermarkets are the last thing Marple needs. One of the nice things about living here is not having lots of supermarkets. There is no need for them.

Condate is entitled to his view, but as we know from the research  that went into the site appraisals for Hibbert Lane and Chadwick Street, it is a minority view.  That report showed that large numbers of Marple residents vote with our feet (or rather, our wheels) and choose to shop at supermarkets elsewhere - Hazel Grove, Bredbury, Stockport, Whaley Bridge etc.  This undoubtedly has a negative effect on the wider Marple economy. 
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: mikes on May 04, 2016, 01:37:22 PM
...This undoubtedly has a negative effect on the wider Marple economy.

Or it could be a positive effect in that we retain the independent shops that those other places don't have.  Swings and roundabouts.  Personally I like Marple as it is and wouldn't want any more supermarkets.
Title: Re: Chadwick Street / Asda / Aldi
Post by: Dave on May 04, 2016, 03:00:32 PM
I doubt it.  Just go to Poynton or Cheadle Hulme and see the difference.  They have their Waitroses, but have also retained their independent shops, and the general level of footfall seems to be much better than it is here in Marple.   Marple is like a ghost town at times.

Remember this report from a couple of years ago? http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s25234/FINAL%20Marple%20Foodstores%20Report%20-%2022%2001.pdf    It showed that we Marple residents spend approximately twice as much on 'conveneince goods' (i.e. supermarket shopping) outside Marple than we do in Marple.  This was summarised as:

 the Sainsbury’s store in Hazel Grove (£6.8m);
 the out-of-centre Morrisons at Bredbury (£5.5m);
 the Tesco store at Whaley Bridge (£5.2m).
 the Tesco store at Wren Nest Road in Glossop (£2.6m);
 the out-of-centre Tesco store at Tiviot Way (£2.4m);
 the ASDA store in Stockport (£1.7m);
 the ASDA store in Hyde (£1.6m); and
 the Sainsbury’s store in Stockport (£1.1m).


Going back to Hoffnung's post:

I don't think that we can entirely blame the councillors.    In 2013/14 SMBC approached all the large supermarkets with the exception of Asda and Lidl to see if they had any interest in coming to Marple, specifically Chadwick Street. (my italics)

I think that's the problem: Chadwick Street, and as marpleexile suggests, our councillors almost certainly knew all along that the inherent problems with the Chadwick Street site would be a major obstacle to getting a supermarket to take it on.   These are summarised in the more recent council document posted by admin:

The original proposal for a 40,000 sq ft store obtained planning permission in 2013. It required the relocation of the Royal Mail depot and the construction of a retail unit at ground floor with parking above due to the limited size of the site. Since then the market for such units has deteriorated considerably whilst the physical obstacles remain. These are summarised below
? The Royal Mail relocation requirement,
? Higher than normal construction costs due to the unique design; and
? Highways works required to make the sites accessible.
? The need to retain the existing level of car parking and cater for any increased
demand from the development itself.


A pretty formidable list of negatives.  All in all, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that our councillors never seriously expected to get a supermarket on that site, and as Hoffnung suggests, some of them never even wanted one anyway.  Meanwhile, we all carry on spending our money in Hazel Grove and Bredbury....