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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: wheels on October 07, 2014, 10:52:10 AM
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I see a Tory Councillor has resigned from the Council and a Labour Councillor has resigned from the Labour Party all in the same week. Good News eh ;-)
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Will it make any difference?
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It will make life easier for the controlling group at least until the by election in the Tory held seat, which might well be a Tory defeat, the Cllr who resigned was only elected last May. people don't like that and who knows what the ex Labour member will do. But it fragments the oppostion and says somehing about the state of the opposition parties in Stockport.
In terms of will it make a difference to the controlling group yes in that day to day management becomes easier in terms of the actual running of the council then probably not as the controlling group are just that the controlling group it will just be easier for a while for them.
Knew you would be the first reply Dave
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I wasn't asking about whether it would make life easier for councillors, I was just wondering whether it would have any effect on council services.
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I thought I answered that.
And hey it does not just make life easier for Councillor it makes life easier for members of this board.
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Wheels, I would be very interested in your forecast of the total number of LD MPs who will be elected on 7 May 2015.
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Well I expect they will be under represented as usual.
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Seeing as Wheels, as usual, will not give a straight answer to a straight question, I'll have a go.
At the moment there are 56 Lib Dem MPs. It is widely predicted that they will lose some of these, and not gain many new seats, if any. But the Lib Dems have in the past proved to be very good at hanging on to what they already hold, even in adverse circumstances (e.g. at the Eastleigh by election last year). And in those seats (there are many) where the Tories come second, the Tories are likely to lose a few votes to UKIP. So incumbent Lib Dem MPs, even if they lose some votes, could still scrape home, thanks to Mr Farage!
My prediction is 39.
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Seeing as Wheels, as usual, will not give a straight answer to a straight question, I'll have a go.
At the moment there are 56 Lib Dem MPs. It is widely predicted that they will lose some of these, and not gain many new seats, if any. But the Lib Dems have in the past proved to be very good at hanging on to what they already hold, even in adverse circumstances (e.g. at the Eastleigh by election last year). And in those seats (there are many) where the Tories come second, the Tories are likely to lose a few votes to UKIP. So incumbent Lib Dem MPs, even if they lose some votes, could still scrape home, thanks to Mr Farage!
My prediction is 39.
Wow, I agree with Dave, I was going to say between 38 & 42.
As for the original post, make it easy to do what?
I'm not a fan of local councils but went to see the plans for Stockport bridge-fields and read the £7m plan for Stockport Old Town. These guys are utterly clueless, money does not grow on trees but they are determined to waste it.
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Wow, I agree with Dave, I was going to say between 38 & 42.
As for the original post, make it easy to do what?
I'm not a fan of local councils but went to see the plans for Stockport bridge-fields and read the £7m plan for Stockport Old Town. These guys are utterly clueless, money does not grow on trees but they are determined to waste it.
Don't supose there were any plans for Chadwick street .......
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Don't supose there were any plans for Chadwick street .......
No, I'd post a link but it's impossible to find. I ave it at work so will post again but it really is a way of wasting money and channeling public cash into the hands of a few.
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Seeing as Wheels, as usual, will not give a straight answer to a straight question, I'll have a go.
At the moment there are 56 Lib Dem MPs. It is widely predicted that they will lose some of these, and not gain many new seats, if any. But the Lib Dems have in the past proved to be very good at hanging on to what they already hold, even in adverse circumstances (e.g. at the Eastleigh by election last year). And in those seats (there are many) where the Tories come second, the Tories are likely to lose a few votes to UKIP. So incumbent Lib Dem MPs, even if they lose some votes, could still scrape home, thanks to Mr Farage!
My prediction is 39.
Well Dave I have just got back from a Union Conference and only just seen your and these posts so I do take some exception to your comments. If you want an firm number I can't give you one so I will answer as best I can. I think the number of seats the Liberal Democrats will win is just about the hardest of all the parties to forcast as it will bear little relationship to their share of the national vote. All the evidence and polling says that in those seats where they are deeply entrenched they will do very well. So both Hazel Grove and Cheadle might well be held whatever the national vote especially as they are within a LD controlled Local Authority and one that wins continually awards for its excellence service as well. As always you would expect some LD gains and a some marginal losses. Indeed it might well be possible depending on how a very small number of votes falls that they would in fact gain seats. It depends how well dug in any MP is and how well organised the local party and none of us on here is in a position to know that. So posting numbers seems silly to me.
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In other words, we probably agree, more or less. :)
Not sure what wheels 'took exception' to. If it was my prediction, I have to say, for what it's worth, that 39 is a lot more than some pundits in the press are forecasting.
If it's my suggestion that he never gives a straight answer to straight question, I think he's just proved my point. :D
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I think I gave a very straight answer as i always do. I just don't think any of us can comment as we don't know the situation on the ground in each constituency and that in terms of the LD vote is much more importantant than the national polls. I could see an increase in the number of seats or a decrease perhaps.
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I think I gave a very straight answer as i always do. I just don't think any of us can comment as we don't know the situation on the ground in each constituency and that in terms of the LD vote is much more importantant than the national polls. I could see an increase in the number of seats or a decrease perhaps.
I think you'd get good odds on the former and i'd liek to see more LD Mps.
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How ironic that the "first past the post" system, that the Liberals/Liberal Democrats have spent generations campaigning against, will be the one factor that prevents their obliteration at the next election. Theywill, no doubt, keep their seats in areas like Hazel Grove where they have large numbers of Councillors and activists. However, if the next election was being fought on the basis of PR, the LibDems would be replaced by UKIP as the third largest party in the Commons.
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Would they though?
Under the current system a 'protest vote' (at a general election in particular) can be wielded without any great concern as to the repercussions. It might be a different story under PR, whereby your vote actually does count for something.
UKIP are on the crest of a wave at the moment, but it will be interesting to see how they fare next May, when the possibility of Nigel being part of a government might not be quite so amusing.
Still beats me why this country chose to stay with the current deeply flawed electoral system. It just continues to breed absolute apathy / disgust. Compare the turn out rates in recent elections against that in the devolution ballot in Scotland. Suddenly when the vote actually counts, it encourages people to get out and use it!
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Still beats me why this country chose to stay with the current deeply flawed electoral system. It just continues to breed absolute apathy / disgust. Compare the turn out rates in recent elections against that in the devolution ballot in Scotland. Suddenly when the vote actually counts, it encourages people to get out and use it!
Because when we were given an alternative, it was even worse than FPP. I struggle to find one to vote for, never mind a 2nd preference.
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Because when we were given an alternative, it was even worse than FPP. I struggle to find one to vote for, never mind a 2nd preference.
Was it really? How can it be worse than a system where most of the populations votes are absolutely worthless?
What frustrated me with the voting referendum was that the Tories deliberately forced a slightly obscure option for us to compare FPTP against and then encouraged the media run a 'oh it's far too complicated for the Joe Public to understand' campaign.
Establishment 1 v 0 General Public yet again.
We all then moan about our politicians when we are complicit in a) putting them there and b) keeping them there!
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???
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I fully agree, Belly. And Duke - under AV there is no requirement to choose more than one candidate if you don't wish to.
FPTP has long enabled Britain to return mostly majority governments and provided stability in periods of more volatile movements such as the 1930s, because the only way minority parties could win seats was by concentrating campaigning in core areas and then hoping to build up their national support. Unlikely.
Pluses - It provides a quick result and is probably the easiest system to understand. It is also the ideal system for a two-party political system.
Unfortunately the UK hasn't been a two-party system for a long time, at least since the 1970s. The Libs in all their guises usually poll around 20% of the vote and get about 10% of the seats. In 1983 they got about 4% seats despite having 25% of the vote. You reckon that's fair?
It stretches credulity, for me, to say that AV is "complicated". I reckon that the majority of people over 18 are able to count to ten (unlikely there'd be more candidates in the average constituency), and have the gumption to rank candidates in order of preference.
Who cares if it takes a few more days if more people will feel their vote actually counts?
The AV campaign was extremely ill-informed and dominated by the No side, who used a mixture of fear and downright lies to make their point. As a result we're stuck with a ridiculously outdated format which only serves to feed on the mass apathy that already exists about British politics.
Anyone who voted to keep FPTP cannot complain about poor turnouts or the government they will be ending up with. We're stuck with a ridiculously outdated format which only serves to feed on the mass apathy that already exists about British politics.
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Good Post
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Was it really? How can it be worse than a system where most of the populations votes are absolutely worthless?
What frustrated me with the voting referendum was that the Tories deliberately forced a slightly obscure option for us to compare FPTP against and then encouraged the media run a 'oh it's far too complicated for the Joe Public to understand' campaign.
Establishment 1 v 0 General Public yet again.
We all then moan about our politicians when we are complicit in a) putting them there and b) keeping them there!
This is true, the conservatives offered the LibDems a referendum but they knew full well the electorate would not go for it. The Lib Dems should have pushed for a simple PR vote referendum but as Labour wouldn't even give them a referendum at all, they went of the only offer on the table. I think they'd have been better taking the moral high ground and insisting that a referendum should only happen on a PR option and they would be the only major party pushing for that (unless you count the greens, UKIP, BNP etc)
I support PR but I didn't think the alternative vote offer so voted against it. It wasn't a case of not understanding it, simply I didn't think it would deliver a government that I'd like.
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As always you would expect some LD gains and a some marginal losses.
I think you'd get good odds on the former and i'd liek to see more LD Mps.
Current odds offered by William Hill on the no of Lib Dem seats after the next General Election:
51 or more 6/1
41 - 50 4/1
31 - 40 9/4
21 - 30 5/2
11 - 20 6/1
0 - 10 12/1
In other words, the bookies think it will be between 20 and 40. And the bookies are generally right - otherwise they go out of business.
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Not sure I understand thatb pos Dave
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I see that as well as the Labour Councillor who has quit the Labour group another labour Councillor has asked not to be seated with the Labour Group at tonights Full Council meeting. What a fine opposition force Stockport has.
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I see that as well as the Labour Councillor who has quit the Labour group another labour Councillor has asked not to be seated with the Labour Group at tonights Full Council meeting. What a fine opposition force Stockport has.
The Labour party in Stockport are horrendous. I was speaking to one from Reddish who was telling me how terrible the retail offer is in Stockport Town centre and something must be done. I agreed and suggested a meeting with Iain Roberts (who's not too bright but his heart is in the right place) and her response was "No" she will not speak with Lib Dems.
Too many little local authority councilors trying to climb the greasy pole of politics rather than actually wanting to do right by those who vote for them.
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The Labour party in Stockport are horrendous. I was speaking to one from Reddish who was telling me how terrible the retail offer is in Stockport Town centre and something must be done. I agreed and suggested a meeting with Iain Roberts (who's not too bright but his heart is in the right place) and her response was "No" she will not speak with Lib Dems.
Too many little local authority councilors trying to climb the greasy pole of politics rather than actually wanting to do right by those who vote for them.
You obviously know Cllr Iain Roberts fairly well Duke as I'm sure that you wouldn't offer such an opinion if you didn't.
In this you have the advantage over me as I have yet to meet him. I wonder exactly what his opinion of your brightness is ?
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The Labour party in Stockport are horrendous. I was speaking to one from Reddish who was telling me how terrible the retail offer is in Stockport Town centre and something must be done. I agreed and suggested a meeting with Iain Roberts (who's not too bright but his heart is in the right place) and her response was "No" she will not speak with Lib Dems.
Too many little local authority councilors trying to climb the greasy pole of politics rather than actually wanting to do right by those who vote for them.
Well as there is only one female councillor in Reddish thats intetresting.
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I see that yet another Labour Councillor left the Labour Group/Party on Stockport Council this morning. Thats two in two weeks. Whats going on ;D
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This is an interesting and (perhaps unintentionally) revealing thread. It's so good to know that our elected representatives are working together to tackle the major issues which concern council taxpayers - education, planning, social care, transport, parks and libraries etc etc - rather than wasting their time on backbiting, infighting and petty squabbles. ::)
In fact, as Duke correctly observed:
Too many little local authority councilors trying to climb the greasy pole of politics rather than actually wanting to do right by those who vote for them.
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Somebody that I know ( she's an ex Stockport Councillor) actually watches all the Council Meetings ( I know but it's her life) on the webcasting.
I was in her company over the week-end and she was eager to give everybody a report on the last full Council Meeting which I think took place on Thursday 16th October.
She said that these meetings have been gradually becoming more pointless but that this one was the worst that she has ever witnessed. She said that the Labour Party in particular was appalling, the Tories were little better and the Lib Dems were little better than both of them. Only the Independents came out with any credit and that's because they didn't say anything.
She said that the opposition hardly raised a question to the ruling group and virtually every agenda item went through on the nod. She said you could see the embarrassment on the mayor's face because of the lack of challenge from anywhere. She said that the labour Party raised two pointless motions; one about trains and the other about tax evasion. None of them had anything to do with Stockport. Both motions were defeated by the Lib Dems on amendment. She said that every time somebody spoke it was party politics and abusive personal backbite.
She said that she felt ashamed of them all and that none of it had anything to do with the people of Stockport.
She said that the only consolation was that one of our Marple Councillors (she couldn't remember which one, she's getting on a bit) spoke on the night in an unparty political way and provided the only sense and humour of the whole meeting. She said apart from that she felt let down and disgusted by our so-called representatives.
Please remember these are not my views, I haven't seen it nor do I Intend to. It's her perception of course but although in her late 80's she's no fool. I thought that I 'd share it as it's right on topic. Did anybody else see it?
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You can watch them back here if you have the will:
http://www.stockport.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcasts
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I agree Simone, the one I saw was horrifically. It was a motion on the bedroom tax where a Reddish councillor raised the issue of the bedroom tax, he went on for about 1/2 hr how his constituent was being hard done by re. The bedroom tax, how their life was going to be made intolloerble and for good measure bought the person along. It was pointed out that he was wrong and should have told his constituent of the funding for genuine cases, the answer took 1/2 min. It wasn't really anything to do with local politics but the guy just wanted to get airtime and was happy to use a vulnerable person to get his profile up. It backfired, he looked an idiot but managed to puf his constituent through the wringer.
I really don't think many are in it for the right reasons.
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And a third Labour Counillor left the Labour Group on Stockport Council yesterday. Thats 3 in 4 weeks.
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Wheels seems to have a vested interest. I wonder why?
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Wheels seems to have a vested interest. I wonder why?
Just an interested observer.
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Wheels seems to have a vested interest. I wonder why?
I think we all have a vested interest in ensuring Labour do not control Stockport, it's called voting.