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Local Community => Local Issues => Town Team / Portas Award => Topic started by: Berni inn on July 11, 2014, 10:17:23 PM

Title: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Berni inn on July 11, 2014, 10:17:23 PM
Gobsmacked

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Harry on July 11, 2014, 10:59:05 PM
Before I jump to the obvious, awful, conclusion, could someone explain what the above post is referring to.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: corium on July 11, 2014, 11:17:58 PM
Try this site

http://www.tilleyandassociates.co.uk/blog/2014/01/a-new-identity-for-marple/
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 12, 2014, 07:12:44 AM
Very nice design, though I'm not so keen on the strapline.  But at least it's better than 'industriously picturesque'! 
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dizzy Penguin on July 12, 2014, 09:47:14 AM
Very nice design, though I'm not so keen on the strapline.  But at least it's better than 'industriously picturesque'!  

Yeah I'm not that keen on the strapline either. But I agree could've been worse - surely 'industriously picturesque' was thought up after an office night out on the port & cheese!
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Lily on July 12, 2014, 10:21:19 AM
Has anyone else noticed the words on the winning design on the 'Tilley' website are in a different order to the words shown on the post submitted by Bluezorro?

Given the choice, I prefer Bluezorro's - they roll off the tongue better.

Which is correct?
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 12, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
I think it's better still without the '&', as on the Tilley website: 'Canals - Mills - Hills'.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Harry on July 12, 2014, 08:24:47 PM
I think if that logo was shown to the population of Stockport, the vast majority would say that it depicted a train crossing the Stockport viaduct.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Berni inn on July 12, 2014, 11:44:11 PM
my grandson noticed today the logo is very similar to the lamposts on the way into marple near the rolling pin shop
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: gazwhite on July 13, 2014, 03:26:24 PM
So it took from April 2013 to make a logo?
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 13, 2014, 06:15:58 PM
No it didn't.  The designers (Tilley) submitted their tender in April 2013.  We don't know when they got the commission or the full brief for the job. 
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 14, 2014, 10:12:44 AM
What has this got to do with Portas? I thought the Portas group were concentrating on the re-invigorating Stockport Old town.

Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Berni inn on July 14, 2014, 08:58:21 PM
my daughter was involved in original portas bid which marple won a 10,000 runners up prize.

stockport were a main national winner getting 100,000
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: corium on July 14, 2014, 11:14:58 PM
my daughter was involved in original portas bid which marple won a 10,000 runners up prize.



Must admit this had completely passed me by but plenty of references if you Google Mary Portas Marple. Try this link:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/We-love-Marple/272046132884541
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 15, 2014, 09:08:15 AM
So does 'wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??' mean that Tilley's fee was £2.5K.  If so, that's surprisingly reasonable.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2014, 11:11:47 AM
So does 'wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??' mean that Tilley's fee was £2.5K.  If so, that's surprisingly reasonable.

£2.5k always seems a bit expensive for doing a little sketch but it does seem to be the going rate. Sadly, I have to agree with Dave.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Harry on July 15, 2014, 12:27:20 PM
So does 'wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??' mean that Tilley's fee was £2.5K.  If so, that's surprisingly reasonable.

It may well be the going rate.

But 'Marple has been awarded £10,000 to help make the town centre even more attractive to shoppers', according to the publicity that was put out at the time of the award.

How is this little sketch going to help? Is this really going to attract shoppers to Marple? I think not. In which case its 25% of the money wasted. Whoever authorised this should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 15, 2014, 01:04:10 PM
£2.5K is a very small amount of money to invest in attracting new visitors to Marple, when you consider the potential additional spending and employment which it could produce over the years. 
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 16, 2014, 08:53:25 AM
£2.5K is a very small amount of money to invest in attracting new visitors to Marple, when you consider the potential additional spending and employment which it could produce over the years. 

I can't disagree Dave, however, as Harry points out, branding that could have been done by a school project may be seen as a waste.

Portas should be all about businesses making a retail area more attractive by working together. They should be more focussed & informed than the local authority who rarely have any real world experience.

As an outsider, it appears something a local authority would waste their money on rather than a group of businesses.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 16, 2014, 12:13:56 PM
£2.5K is a very small amount of money to invest in attracting new visitors to Marple, when you consider the potential additional spending and employment which it could produce over the years. 

Just to be clear, I don;t disagree that £2.5K is a very small amount of money to invest in attracting new  visitors (spending customers) to Marple.

The argument is whether this drawing is likely to achieve that AND moreover, it's highly likely that this drawing could have been done for free as a school / college project.

However, It's possible that the logo is part of something more, perhaps an extended advertising campaign and an overall strategy and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

I understand that Stockport Old town also has a new logo which will be plastered on billboards, press around the north west, lamposts around the old town and leads on to a proactive effort to get the empty units within the old town filled up. The point of the Portas pilot is to get the retail side in the high street back in business, they are not to act like the local council as the council have contributed to the failure of the high street.

After a rather inauspicious start, this past 9 months has seen 12 new retail units open, 6 new market traders, a business incubation unit,  'Seven Miles Out' art / cultural venue, the Bakers Vault open and the old Yate's will open in August. I understand the Portas group are now talking with banks, angel investors and accountants and providing some financial assistance to entrepreneurs who look to open business in the old town.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on July 17, 2014, 10:27:58 AM
it's highly likely that this drawing could have been done for free as a school / college project.

Yes it could, but we will never know whether it would have been any good.   FWIW, I think Tilley have done a good job, although judging from the title of this thread, I don't think bluezorro would agree! 

However, It's possible that the logo is part of something more, perhaps an extended advertising campaign and an overall strategy and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Agreed.  If the new logo is followed up effectively with other appropriate initiatives it could be very beneficial. 
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 18, 2014, 12:48:28 PM
Yes it could, but we will never know whether it would have been any good.   FWIW, I think Tilley have done a good job, although judging from the title of this thread, I don't think bluezorro would agree! 

Agreed.  If the new logo is followed up effectively with other appropriate initiatives it could be very beneficial. 

It is quite good although I'm sure the college / school could have done something similar for nowt. That said. I am a little sniffy at marketing types - to me they just need a degree in stating the bleeding obvious to charge their fee.


We'll see how it pas out.

The Portas money is intended to give the local retailers the chance to apply their experience to create a 'buzz' and a vibrant high street. If they can point to fewer empty shops having spent the money then that is good.

I've seen a few applications for Portas funding that has come from the council to do council things, that is entirely wrong IMHO.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: corium on July 21, 2014, 04:11:37 PM
Just heard a trail on the Radio for "You & Yours" on Radio 4 suggesting all next week they will be looking at the impact of the Portas scheme. Only caught it by chance so post if I've got the details slightly wrong.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: My login is Henrietta on July 23, 2014, 07:59:56 PM
BBC "You & Yours" site re Portas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01b0xyg

Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 24, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
Stockport Old town website went live this morning http://stockportoldtown.co.uk/

Edit: I'm told this is very much a soft launch as they flesh out detail, the launch will be in august. The logo on this site is being used throughout the old town and a bill board campaign for a Stockport Festival starts as well.

IMHO this needs to be co-ordinated with an attempt to bring in retail businesses, in fairness, there are new businesses opening around the market area but what must not happen is that all we get are unsustainable whimsical charity types that have no chance of paying their way.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 28, 2014, 02:28:49 PM
BBC "You & Yours" site re Portas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01b0xyg



The programme doesn't say much, it mentions the rates issue that really needs addressing but not with the sticky plaster solutions we've had so far.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: CTCREP on July 31, 2014, 09:33:17 AM
Having tried for many years to persuade Stockport Council, our local Councillors and others that say they have an interest in Marple that an Information Board at Rosehill near to the end of the Middlewood Way would bring more visitors into Marple, many of whom turn back as soon as they realise they have arrived at the Council's Refuse Tip, only to be told there is no money available, I am more than disappointed that this money has been spent on a Logo which have little to do with encouraging visitors. I also agree with others that encouraging our local students by giving them the project to design a logo would have been far more beneficial and cost effective.

Below, I hope, is a photo I took in a little village in Herefordshire which does far more for their village than any Logo would and probably for only half the money. Surely Marple can do as well.

(http://DSC00325.jpg)
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: CTCREP on July 31, 2014, 09:35:19 AM
I note the photo didn't appear, could Admin please explain how it is done.  Thanks
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on July 31, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
Having tried for many years to persuade Stockport Council, our local Councillors and others that say they have an interest in Marple that an Information Board at Rosehill near to the end of the Middlewood Way would bring more visitors into Marple, many of whom turn back as soon as they realise they have arrived at the Council's Refuse Tip, only to be told there is no money available, I am more than disappointed that this money has been spent on a Logo which have little to do with encouraging visitors. I also agree with others that encouraging our local students by giving them the project to design a logo would have been far more beneficial and cost effective.

Below, I hope, is a photo I took in a little village in Herefordshire which does far more for their village than any Logo would and probably for only half the money. Surely Marple can do as well.

(http://DSC00325.jpg)

The idea of Portas is that because the councils have been so bad at supporting retail businesses in the past, the funding and decision making is passed to Portas steering groups rather than local councils. The point being is that retailers know what works and local authority workers do not really have a clue.

After a sticky start (mainly down to a reluctance of the council to release control) the portas group in Stockport are doing quite a lot including an information board promoting shops etc in place of the exiting efforts.

May i suggest you speak to the Marple group with your ideas, IF they have the budget (bearing in mind they may already have assigned money) I'm sure you'll get a far more proactive response from them rather than the council.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: admin on August 02, 2014, 09:53:58 AM
I note the photo didn't appear, could Admin please explain how it is done.  Thanks

Help is here: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help;page=post#attachments

Maximum file size is 1000Kb - this is usually the reason for failure - trying to upload too large an image.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: CTCREP on August 02, 2014, 02:16:17 PM
Thanks for the reply.  It appears to only accept GIF's, so I shall try again.

Below is an Information Board in a small village in Herefordshire which if Marple had something similar it would be far more beneficial to the area than a new logo.

(http://www.marple-uk.com/Users/defaultuser/Desktop/DSC00325.jpg/)

[img/Users/defaultuser/Desktop/DSC00325 copy.gif][/img]
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: CTCREP on August 02, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
Hmm, that didn't work

/Users/defaultuser/Desktop/DSC00325.jpg

I have added an attachment to see if that works.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: admin on August 02, 2014, 03:06:33 PM
You can't insert an image using this button: (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/Themes/marple2/images/bbc/img.gif) unless the image is already on the Internet. In that case you insert the full url of the image between the img commands. You cannot insert an image that is on your PC Desktop because nobody else will have access to it. But you can attach the image as per the help link so long as it is smaller than the maximum size, which you've now managed to do. You can attach any type of file, not just a gif. You can insert any image type via the button: (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/Themes/marple2/images/bbc/img.gif)  - gif, jpg, png (so long as it exists on the Internet already).
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: CTCREP on August 07, 2014, 07:15:04 PM
Thanks for the explanation Mark.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on August 08, 2014, 10:21:30 AM
Thanks for the explanation Mark.

Keep us updated CTrep, it would be nice to see how the Portas group can get these things through when the red tape of councils can stutter.

To me, it's exactly the way portas can bring their collective experience to the table where the council's experience is a little limited.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Berni inn on August 09, 2014, 11:38:05 PM
CTCREP

I seem to remember that Marple Hall School would have been involved in conjuring up designs for an information board and a town tourist trail if the original Portas bid had been successful.

If councillors are on the Marple Vision Partnership, is this why £2500 has been wasted?

Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on August 10, 2014, 07:36:34 AM
I am more than disappointed that this money has been spent on a Logo which have little to do with encouraging visitors.

That's a curious observation, considering that the logo, with its profile of the viaduct in the shape of M (for Marple) and the strap line 'hills, mills and canals', is obviously designed solely to achieve that aim.  Whether it succeeds or not we shall see in due course. 
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: admin on August 10, 2014, 08:44:54 AM
with its profile of the viaduct in the shape of M (for Marple).....  

It's the Aqueduct Dave!
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on August 10, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
So it is! (Doh......)  :-[
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on August 12, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
CTCREP

I seem to remember that Marple Hall School would have been involved in conjuring up designs for an information board and a town tourist trail if the original Portas bid had been successful.

If councillors are on the Marple Vision Partnership, is this why £2500 has been wasted?

Councillors should not be on the Portas teams, the whole point is that the council staff have been hopelessly inadequate when in comes to understanding what makes retail business tick so the budget is passed to people with a real interest in the area.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: tricky on August 12, 2014, 03:39:31 PM
So does 'wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??' mean that Tilley's fee was £2.5K.  If so, that's surprisingly reasonable.

(http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5741.0;attach=607;image)


What a bargain.. Money totally well spent.. especially when there was absolutely nothing remotely like it before...

(http://www.marplefestival.org.uk/graphics/header2013.png)

(http://pureradio.org.uk/silo/images/marple-festival-2010_111x200.jpg) etc..

Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: hollins on August 12, 2014, 04:02:38 PM
That's absolutely brilliant Tricky!

In fairness to Dave's earlier aqueduct/viaduct problem the tag line does seem to have rather excluded the railways. I wonder if bringing a steam train into Marple might pull in some visitors - it seems to work elsewhere. Just a thought.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2014, 10:02:53 AM
Tricky makes a very good point.  Looks like Tilley have engaged in a little bit of plagiarism!   :o
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Phil on August 13, 2014, 07:15:39 PM
Tricky makes a very good point.  Looks like Tilley have engaged in a little bit of plagiarism!   :o

Not a bit of it. To create 2 additional holes in a structural form of that size and age in the time it takes for the canal boat to move from the middle to one end is not mean feat. Credit where credit is due!

RH.
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: amazon on August 13, 2014, 07:28:42 PM
That's absolutely brilliant Tricky!

In fairness to Dave's earlier aqueduct/viaduct problem the tag line does seem to have rather excluded the railways. I wonder if bringing a steam train into Marple might pull in some visitors - it seems to work elsewhere. Just a thought.

You try and bring one in .theres one in at stockport tomorrow if not cancelled .scarborough Flyer .also on the.
29 .and the 5 September .
Title: Re: wheel reinvented for a quarter of the portas money??
Post by: Duke Fame on August 13, 2014, 10:16:57 PM
That's absolutely brilliant Tricky!

In fairness to Dave's earlier aqueduct/viaduct problem the tag line does seem to have rather excluded the railways. I wonder if bringing a steam train into Marple might pull in some visitors - it seems to work elsewhere. Just a thought.

I think that may cost a little more than £10k and would just be a one off.

Also, if Rambler's idea of nationalisation happens, private trains would not be allowed.