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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: I am the Walrus on April 01, 2014, 08:13:50 AM

Title: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 01, 2014, 08:13:50 AM
I know this has been discussed previously but some time has passed since then, NUHOPE is now running across all school years and I really want to know people's views on NUHOPE. There  is a page on facebook about it but, unless I am looking in the wrong place, there doesn't seem to be much comment.
I know NUHOPE must be working for some people and I am all for discipline in school but we are finding that our children, who never previously got into any trouble, are picking up regular detentions for the most ridiculous reasons and it is demoralising them. They work hard and do all their homework/schoolwork to a high standard but they can get a nuhope punishment for losing a pencil between lessons or for being late to a lesson after being let out of the previous one late!!
Teachers no longer seem to use their discretion; they don't take pupils usual good character into account; they just dish out punishments and not always fairly either! Some students seem to be let off where others feel targeted!!

Many students have given up trying to avoid the nuhopes because they are so prevalent; they just regard the detentions as a daily after-school club, which, by the way, often has upwards of 30 students in it! How can this be working to improve standards?

Worse still, students are threatened with, and punished with, isolation if they miss NUHOPE detentions!! Bearing in mind these detentions can be for not having a pencil; isolation would seem to be ridiculously severe and demoralising.

To rub salt into the wound the school has recently spent government money on taking the "underacheiving" children on free weekend activity breaks while everyone else has to pay for their son or daughter's educational trips!! Does no-one understand the perception that poor attendance and regular NUHOPE punishment (brought on by the regime itself) is being rewarded?? Surely the school could have chosen to spend the money on extra tuition or one-to-one guidance for some of the "under-acheivers"

Most of the students who are under-acheiving are doing so BECAUSE of NUHOPE and it's negative effects, not because they don't want to work . . .

Is it just me? I'd really like to know please.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Rachael on April 01, 2014, 08:45:19 PM
A child who under achieves, does not necessarily mean that it is because they have poor attendance or  a continuous NUHOPE record  :(, a child may underachieve due to a whole list of possibilities !
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 02, 2014, 08:55:27 AM
Hello Pink Panther! I am in no way denigrating children who "under-achieve" nor am I suggesting that some don't have genuine difficulties and issues. My problem is with the NUHOPE system itself and the fact that I do know it is causing some students to switch off from school, which can't be a good thing . . .
The sizes of the groups attending NUHOPE detentions every night and the sizes of the groups who went on the trips for "under-achievers" would suggest that something somewhere is going very wrong, especially when you consider that Ofsted reported Marple as having lower than average numbers of students with special educational needs and lower than average numbers coming from disadvantaged back-grounds.
The school is relying on its own statistics which show less time lost in the classroom dealing with minor issues. That is good news BUT the minor issues are not being dealt with; merely shifted into NUHOPE detentions!
Also, strangely, the school is advocating NUHOPE an rating it an overall success but at the same time saying that the numbers of students in detention since NUHOPE are no greater than they were previously . . . they are no less either!!
NUHOPE is under review to try and find out why so many teachers are using it so readily . . . there is no suggestion of it being dropped or toned down.

For those that say kids have to learn their responsibilities for later life and learn to remember the things they need - that is all true BUT well-educated adults make mistakes and forget things and make poor decisions very day; that's part of being human. These students are under more pressure than ever to do well and get good grades, not made easy by the worry of knowing that lurking in every lesson is a potential detention.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Phil on April 02, 2014, 09:35:42 AM
Seems to me, "I am", you say you really want to know people's views on NUHOPE but in reality anyone who either agrees with it, or is neutral, or puts an alternative interpretation, will get a multi-paragraph reply ultimately denigrating NUHOPE, albeit politely. So I'll decline the invitation (even if I were to agree with you)...

RH.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Harry on April 02, 2014, 12:08:22 PM
..... well-educated adults make mistakes and forget things and make poor decisions very day; ......

Speak for yourself.

I hope you don't work in medicine, aircraft industry, emergency services, nuclear industry, etc.

Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 02, 2014, 12:11:49 PM
Phil, I do want to know people's views. I have already said I am all for discipline etc but there needs to be a measured approach. It could be that I am very easily way out of line; that's why I am asking.

Harry, you've never made a mistake?
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 02, 2014, 12:33:41 PM
Worse still, students are threatened with, and punished with, isolation if they miss NUHOPE detentions!!

Isolation?  How does that work?  I hope MHS doesn't impose 'solitary confinement' on its pupils?

As for this:
Speak for yourself.

I hope you don't work in medicine, aircraft industry, emergency services, nuclear industry, etc.

....I can't speak for 'I am', but surely the point s/he was making was that NUHOPE is being imposed inappropriately and unthinkingly for trivial offences (such as losing a pencil), or even non-offences (such as arriving late for a class when you were let out of the previous class late).  I think Harry will find that although doctors and airline pilots rarely make major mistakes in their work, they are just as capable of losing a pencil as the rest of us! 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: JMC on April 02, 2014, 01:36:12 PM
I currently have 3 children at the school and an older one who went through the school before the NUHOPE scheme.

My children are well behaved and good achievers and all have had at least 1 NUHOPE for such things as shirt sticking out from under the blazer, glancing out of a window or forgetting a pencil. I do think it is a bit harsh for that kind of thing as do most parents i speak to (and I know a lot!). I personally think that they should target the bad behaviour and bullying/violence for punishment and isolation/expulsion.I also don't think unruly kids should be rewarded with trips etc (this happened at my son's primary and the boy is now at MHS and still very unruly). I am not sure about 'underachievers' as don't know enough about that scheme.

 More discipline for the badly behaved and less for the minor/petty offences would be my preference. I know many parents are fed up of the NOHOPE as they call it. However the school where the idea came from found that results improved and it seems MHS has also had improvements so it is unlikely to be abandoned anytime soon. But overall MHS is a good school and my daughter did well there so I hope my others do too!
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 02, 2014, 04:14:06 PM
My children are well behaved and good achievers and all have had at least 1 NUHOPE for such things as.....glancing out of a window
Blimey!  :o
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 02, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
Isolation is given for serious offences BUT if a pupil is not informed of their NUHOPE,or if they dispute the reason for it being given, and they don't go; they are then given a double NUHOPE (1 hour). If they miss that, for whatever reason, then they are given isolation. So, in theory and sometimes in practice a child can end up in isolation for having a broken pencil (classed as an equipment violation).
One pupil was put in isolation for six weeks for having her nose pierced. I don't agree with her having a pierced nose but six weeks out of a proper classroom environment is seriously unhealthy I would have thought.

Isolation involves pupils being put into a room to study. There may be other pupils in there BUT they sit within separate cubicles and are given worksheets. The staff-member supervising them can only help with the work sheets if they happen to know the particular subject. I would be surprised to find that it is a productive punishment. It is more likely to put a pupil behind and breed resentment.

Marple Hall is a good school and like all schools it has always had an unruly element but they have always produced very good results overall. NUHOPE was introduced as a huge over-reaction to one poor Ofsted report - a blip on an otherwise good record.

I agree with JMC'S closing sentiments:

"More discipline for the badly behaved and less for the minor/petty offences would be my preference. I know many parents are fed up of the NOHOPE as they call it. However the school where the idea came from found that results improved and it seems MHS has also had improvements so it is unlikely to be abandoned anytime soon. But overall MHS is a good school and my daughter did well there so I hope my others do too!"

It's all about balance and taking into consideration each students normal pattern of behaviour, good or bad.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 02, 2014, 07:24:25 PM
Sorry, I forgot to say, Dave, you have nailed the points as I intended them.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: My login is Henrietta on April 02, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I taught in grammar, secondary modern and comprehensive schools and a boarding school in my 25 years at the chalk face. I wasn't a trendy, let's-be-the-"kids"-friend type of teacher and expected good classroom discipline but I was reading the afore-going with my mouth hanging open. What century do these people think they are in? They'll be having Mr Brocklehurst chastising girls for having curly hair next!

Reggie Hill must be spinning in his grave!
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 03, 2014, 09:41:11 AM
I'm have been a bit reluctant to express too strong an opinion, as our children went through MHS before NUHOPE was ever thought of, so we have had no direct experience of it, but I do tend to agree with Henrietta.  I'm sure NUHOPE has been adopted with the best of intentions, but my worry would be that removing any discretion from staff in the way they apply punishments could actually undermine their authority and professional status.  Also, it might eventually breed in pupils a kind of sullen 'compliance mentality', in which frequent punishment is accepted as a fact of life; as 'I am' writes, 'Many students have given up trying to avoid the nuhopes because they are so prevalent; they just regard the detentions as a daily after-school club'.  That can't be right. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 03, 2014, 10:13:01 AM
I have no interest in advertising my C.V but I also have some experience on the chalk face and even if I didn't have then I have plenty of experience as both a student and a parent.

In my view Henrietta is on the money here. Regime's (the clue is in the word) like this belong in Jane Eyre's time or in a prison or in the army. That is if they belong at all.

This 'Nohope' has been imported from America and I admit to having a Jaundiced view about most 'cultural' American imports.

In the long run the continuance of it will only serve to have a negative effect upon all aspects of the school as Students and Teachers will come to lose that vital Teacher/Student respect ingredient which is hard to identify in particular but is vital in general to the running of a happy; good, achieving  school.

As I see it at MHS the problem with Nohope is twofold.

1/ The Governing body is dominated by Local Councillors, last time I looked there were three of them ( 3 on one GB !) and all they are interested in is a good Ofsted Report and good exam results. if Nohope achieves this then they will support it to the exclusion of everything else.

2/ Although there are many parents against it they rarely complain either to the Council or directly to the school. They do complain on this website but neither the Council nor the School read it. So if people want it reviewed then they need to start speaking out in sufficient numbers and to the right people or it will just continue. It is very worrying as MHS is really the only school in Marple for our children. I personally do not have any children at the school but if I did and there was no other school of choice - which there isn't, then I think that I would make a large and loud objection about Nohope.  It seems that it is now serving to make the school experience for our children either an unhappy or a rebellious one.                     
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 04, 2014, 10:29:32 AM
if people want it reviewed then they need to start speaking out in sufficient numbers and to the right people or it will just continue.
A key point: and the 'right people', IMO, are the current parent governors, who, if they can be persuaded that NUHOPE is a thoroughly bad idea, or if they can show that a significant % of parents are against it, are best placed to do something about it.

It is very worrying as MHS is really the only school in Marple for our children.
Another key point.  I seem to recall it being reported on this forum that the last head said to one parent who protested about NUHOPE, 'well if you don't like it, you can send your child to another school'.  Let's hope the current regime doesn't take such a disgraceful attitude. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Loobylou on April 04, 2014, 08:02:44 PM
I have two children at MHS, both are achieving well and have good reports. Yet both get regular nuhopes and one has been in isolation twice. When nuhope was introduced and the first children were given detention (Sept 13), there were tears. Well behaved children who had never previously been in detention were now in trouble and it upset them a lot. Now, 18 months later, these same children say, "I'm not going to bother with my homework, I'll just do a nuhope instead", or "I didn't go to nuhope as I had a friend round. I'll just do an hour tomorrow". With regard to isolation I was told by my child, "It's quite good fun, better than class, you get to go on the computers."
I'm not too pleased with this blase attitude but I am pleased that my children are not too demoralised by the strict regieme, although they don't like it.  I feel the punishments are loosing effectiveness. My children are just 11 and 13 and already they are flouting the authority of the school.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Miss C on April 04, 2014, 09:19:42 PM
Surely your role as a parent is to work with the school and ensure your child does his or her homework on time, rather than allowing him to put it off and do this nuhope instead! I can't see what's wrong about giving kids homework and expecting it to be handed in on time. That was certainly the expectation when I was at school and I remember my mother checking my homework diary and that I'd done all my homework. Now as a parent myself I can't see what's wrong with that.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 05, 2014, 07:26:32 AM
My children are just 11 and 13 and already they are flouting the authority of the school.

A very telling - and worrying - observation, but it's not really surprising.  Children have a very strong sense of fairness - how many times do we hear them say (with feeling), 'It's NOT FAIR!'  In any context, not just in schools, authority needs to command the respect and consent of those over whom it is exercised.  Even if they don't like being disciplined for something, there should be an acceptance that the discipline is being exercised reasonably, and that the punishment is fair and proportionate to the offence.  

If children learn to lose respect for authority while they are in school, there is a danger that this lack of respect may continue into adult life, with who knows what consequences!  
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 05, 2014, 08:37:20 AM
Surely your role as a parent is to work with the school and ensure your child does his or her homework on time, rather than allowing him to put it off and do this nuhope instead! I can't see what's wrong about giving kids homework and expecting it to be handed in on time. That was certainly the expectation when I was at school and I remember my mother checking my homework diary and that I'd done all my homework. Now as a parent myself I can't see what's wrong with that.

It is very gracious of you Miss C to advise Looby on her parenting skills, I am sure that she appreciates the guidance. Perhaps MHS should start putting the parents in Nohope for not checking their kids homework et al.   

I may be wrong but I sense that you fully support Nohope. Perhaps you are a bit closer to it than others. Perhaps you would like to share your view on it with us.   
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 05, 2014, 11:58:20 AM
I'm sure I remember someone posting on here, with absolute confidence, that Nuhope would be binned as soon as the previous Headteacher left the school and the new Head took over.......?
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 05, 2014, 01:50:42 PM
Hmm - could have been me, or maybe it was Simone?  Either way, it looks like it was wishful thinking! 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Howard on April 05, 2014, 02:08:42 PM
Hmm - could have been me, or maybe it was Simone?  Either way, it looks like it was wishful thinking! 

I think you will find it was Simone who referred to it, although it was conjecture rather than a hard fact:
Favourite candidate at the time of writing is an in post Deputy Head who by many accounts is and always has been quietly opposed to Huhope. Intriguing eh ?     
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 05, 2014, 03:36:24 PM
....and that was indeed the guy who got the job! So Simone was right about that, at least! 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 05, 2014, 03:59:00 PM
Well, at least this is a discussion. I did mention previously that there is a facebook page on the matter which hasn't attracted much comment so it is difficult to get people together to make a forcible point.
I visited school last week to discuss nuhope and another parent was there to discuss the same thing. My children try to discuss it with school too but we seem to get the same answers in that their "data" suggests it is working, though perhaps some discretion ought to be exercised by teachers when dealing with incredibly minor "offences"

It is very worrying to read Loubyloo's post which suggests that we are not the only parents experiencing difficulties with our children being put off school and questioning the fairness of this regime . . .

Slightly alarmingly, we have now received a letter which suggests our son may be "underacheiving" and may need help to "eradicate under-performance". I say alarmingly because we don't have a son at the school and have never been made aware of any of our children potentially under-acheiving!!!

In my mind, if children are being turned off, there is no doubt that for some; NUHOPE is failing and Marple Hall is failing.

We are close to making a formal written complaint but not even sure who to address it to as the school seems to be layered like a corporation with LOTS of "Head of", "deputy Head of", "Assistant Head to" "Middle Leaders" I'm sure there must still be some teachers . . .

As I said at the start of this, I am all for discipline and learning and decent behaviour but I also think children need to be happy in their environment and need to have mutual respect for anything productive to take place.

I'm thinking that we are not so way out of line with our thoughts on NUHOPE and would like to hear from anyone who would be interested in helping to present their thoughts to the school as a group, so that they may take some notice because at the moment the ploicy appears to be "divide and conquer" . . .

Whilst typing this there has been another post about the new Head being opposed to NUHOPE. That has been suggested to me too, but you just try and get through the layers of staff to reach him!!! As a group of signatories to a letter, it may be possible??
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Loobylou on April 05, 2014, 05:16:43 PM
I share your concerns and have had similar experiences to yourself when I have been intouch with school regarding nuhope. Most of the parents I know don't like nuhope because it upsets their children and does nothing to encourage good behaviour or hard work. When I have spoken with school, (individually and at meetings), school has sought to deal with issues and complaints around nuhope on an informal basis. If issues aren't resolved then the school refer the matter to a more senior staff member but still deal with it informally. From what I've seen I think this is to avoid complaints which would have to be logged.

Since the school is so strict I have become much more lenient at home, to try to bring some balance. This is a big shame because it means that home and school are not working in partnership. School have taken over much of the discipline in my childrens' lives whereas previously it was more shared.

I would be delighted if nuhope was binned but I fear complaining formally as it would upset school and may damage my future relations with them. I'm sure that there will be times when I need their support with my children and so I don't want to fall out with them. Also in many areas the school is excellent.   
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 05, 2014, 09:57:40 PM
I fear complaining formally as it would upset school and may damage my future relations with them. I'm sure that there will be times when I need their support with my children and so I don't want to fall out with them.

Whilst that point of view is entirely understandable, I think it's dangerously defeatist.  If enough parents are unhappy with NUHOPE, they should have the confidence to say so.  And as I've said before, a good way to tackle this issue would be via the parent governors, which might leave individual parents less exposed. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 06, 2014, 10:55:28 AM
It was my understanding at the time of the implementation of Nohope that it was the singular idea of the then Head Teacher,  Rose Hagen.  I thought that after she departed the school would see sense and discard it.

 I was though mistaken and I have since  learnt that it was as much the initiative of the Chair of governors as the Head Teacher's.

 There  used to be a link on the Council's website for complaints about schools. I don't know if it is still there although with the C of G at  MHS and the Council's  Executive Member for Education being one and the same perhaps that might not be the way.

I have never really heard anybody connected with the school explain the reason for Nohope. On the MHS website a recent posting declared that the school will publish a ..."Parent friendly guide to Nuhope."  I await with interest.

The other issue connected to Nohope that comes into view is: How is Nohope going to be reconciled to MHS's aspiration for a sixth - form. What A level Student is going to be prepared to put up with that ?     
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Miss C on April 06, 2014, 06:31:23 PM
I'm no closer to it at all than you are Simone but therein lies my point. I offer an opinion, not direct experience and i still believe that parents have a responsibility as I cited previously. You however have just invited people to make a complaint when most of what you know about the school is from the forum! I find that unbelievable and crass! I am all for a forum such as this which stimulates discussion but there seems to be some people on here who have nothing better to do than stir up issues, scaremonger and then sit back to watch the results. I find it incredibly hard to believe that nuhope, nohope, whatever you want to call it, was the initiative of the Chair of Governors- it is not governors role to introduce any new initiatives into a school, especially regarding operational issues. There is a lot of conjecture on here and it makes it difficult to ascertain the facts. Parents experiences on here sound worrying admittedly and I am not taking anything away from their concerns but I am sure contacting school to resolve individual issues is more of a way forward than bitching and stirring on a website. And Simone, please don't patronise me when you seem to spend a significant amount of time on here holding court on what's right or wrong. For me, being part of a community is important and the school is as much a part of the community as the primary school, the shops, the pubs etc. I have heard a lot of positive things about the school, especially since the departure of the last headmistress. The views on here of 3 or 4 parents  and their friends, whilst clearly important may not represent the majority view. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, the silent majority do not have extreme views a s highlighted by the supermarket on Hibbert lane debacle. People seem to be very suspicious of the school and that I don't get. Fair play to anyone who works with kids these days with the constant changes in educational policy and hoops to jump through to secure our children a good future. The people I know who have children at the high school generally speak highly of it. A friend of mines son spent half term ski ing on a school trip and loved it. All I'm saying is it can't be all bad as is sometimes represented on here. Surely as a community we want to work together, support each other,build each other up, rather than point fingers- isn't that one of the reasons to be a community?
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: marpleexile on April 06, 2014, 08:11:01 PM
It's very hard to judge this from the outside, because a lot of the info is third hand.

We've heard a couple of stories from parents about the seemingly stupid little things that have seen their offspring fall foul of NuHope, and if true, then it would appear that either the system is flawed, or it is being implemented badly.

However, from my own experience as a child, and having dealt with children via voluntary youth services, I strongly suspect that the version of events being relayed to the forum (via parents, via their kids), isn't the whole truth. When I was a child, when I got in trouble, unless it was so bad that school phoned home, the version I told my Mum was always significantly watered down. So, someone on here has reported that a child was given a NuHope detention for staring out of the windows. Probably true, but I would imagine that what little Johnny forgot to mention to mum, was that he spent the entire lesson staring out of the window, thus he did no work, and couldn't answer questions when called upon because of it, etc. The child who was given NuHope for being late to class, because the previous class let them out late - why was she the only one to get a NuHope, surely the entire class of 20+ kids got one? No, just her? I would imagine then that there were other factors at work that contributed to her lateness.

The principle of NuHope seems sound to me, clamp down on the small problems and the large ones take care of themselves. For me, the issue is whether it's being implemented properly, fairly and with enough common sense - and I suspect that it is.

But, if you truly believe that NuHope is unfairly impacting upon your children's welfare then follow the advice already laid out here, and make formal complaints.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 07, 2014, 09:49:28 AM
it is not governors role to introduce any new initiatives into a school

On the contrary, it is completely within the powers of school governors to introduce new initiatives to a school - indeed, it's one of the most important things that they do.  Of course, any new initiative will only work if it is implemented effectively, which means that it must also have the complete support of the headteacher and other senior staff. 

Meanwhile, 'I Am' writes
We are close to making a formal written complaint but not even sure who to address it to

Address it to the Headteacher, with copies to the Chair of Governors and the Parent Governors.  A short, calm, reasonable letter from a group of concerned parents should enable some progress to be made on this issue. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: JMC on April 07, 2014, 12:37:12 PM
True that parents may not get the full story but sometimes parents have been told by teachers what the NUHOPE was for when they have enquired. My son got one very soon after starting year 7 (2 weeks in, when NUHOPE came into action for them after 2 weeks grace) for having a little bit of his shirt showing from under his sweatshirt/blazer. My daughter (year 10, excellent reports for behaviour etc/A*s-not saying that to brag but just to be clear she is generally an exceptional student) got one for closing her book when she had finished her work. Another one of my son's was nervous about his first ever NUHOPE recently but he actually 'enjoyed' it as he said they just read books after school.

After saying all this, I still respect the school to give out discipline as they see fit and they have dealt with bullying extremely well in my previous experience. Overall the school is very good and that has to be the main thing.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 07, 2014, 01:58:26 PM
Miss C,

I think that when you start feeling as if you are being patronised on the inter twaddle then you are taking it all a little bit too much to  heart.

This is an internet forum where people give views and opinions. Sometimes these opinions are not real. Sometimes the people aren't even real, sometimes they just assume the persona of their poster identity. Having said that I really did enjoy your diatribe. I thought that the way the thread of hysteria ran through it was hilarious. It made it Goonish or even Fawltyish and I could easily visualise one of those characters giving forth with those words. I hope that you will consider this a compliment.

Back on topic I think that your own understanding about the role of the governors is incorrect. It is entirely within their remit to do what you say they can't do and in any case the governor situation at MHS is unique within Stockport in that sense.

I have not actually picked up that people are criticising the school outside Nohope. My interpretation of it is that some people believe it to be a good school but that Nohope is detracting from the educational quality of the product in general and the educational experience for the students in particular and if this is what they believe then they are entitled to criticise. those STUDENTS are their CHILDREN It is not really for you to censor or even to understand. If you 'don't get it,' you don't get it - but you don't have to - it is all ENTIRELY up to you.

I think that Marpleexile makes a very good point when he/she talks about things 'unfairly impacting upon your child's welfare....'

If this is the case you have to do something. You can't just side with school because they are the school and they are part of the community.

Dave's advice is good advice ...'a short, reasonable, calm letter'.... and insist on a written reply. 



 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 07, 2014, 03:35:56 PM
I think Simone makes an important point here:
I have not actually picked up that people are criticising the school outside Nohope. My interpretation of it is that some people believe it to be a good school but that Nohope is detracting from the educational quality of the product in general and the educational experience for the students in particular

Agreed.  Those of us who have reservations about NUHOPE shoul not be mistaken for people who are critical of the school in general.  It did a good job with our three children when they were there, and I am reliably informed that if anything it is better still nowadays.  But that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to express negative opinions about anything at all! 

Meanwhile, I've just noticed this point in an earlier post by 'I Am':
My children try to discuss it with school too but we seem to get the same answers in that their "data" suggests it is working

Does anyone know what that means?  By what criteria is NUHOPE 'working'?  Presumably they mean it is improving behaviour, but what are these 'data' which indicate this?  It would be interesting to know. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 07, 2014, 07:24:51 PM
This point about the 'data' is very interesting.

Where and what is this data?

Perhaps MHS feel that they had a better Ofsted report as far as 'discipline' was concerned after Nohope was implemented than before it was. Or perhaps they have actually compiled some data. What could it be ? Perhaps they have a file on each student or class and plot the Nohopes on some kind of graph on a monthly basis. Perhaps the Head Teach presents them to the staff like monthly sales figures whilst telling them ....'we must increase our Nohopes.' 

Maybe they are planning a competition and the end of term will see the inaugural Nohope Games. Where students can get; bronze, silver and gold Nohopes. It really is quite limitless they could be awarded for academia, attendance everything. You could have the Nohope Student of the year or even the nohope Teacher of the year.
         
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 07, 2014, 08:40:12 PM
I wouldn't claim to know much about secondary education but I would be very surprised if the school did not have very detailed information about the performance of their pupils at primary school. You would then expect them to have an assessment of the progress they would be "expected" to make, based on that prior attainment. I would hope that they would then be monitoring the progress the pupils make against their "minimum target grades". There again, I could be wrong!
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: corium on April 07, 2014, 08:41:13 PM
From the latest Ofsted report:

The school has recently introduced a new behaviour management policy, which most teachers
are enforcing rigorously. Many parents, students and staff believe that behaviour has improved
rapidly at the school as a consequence and inspectors agree. The leadership team recognises
the fine balance between maintaining consistently high expectations of behaviour and sensitively
establishing a positive climate for learning and sense of community
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 07, 2014, 10:37:47 PM
The clue in the post above is "enforcing rigorously" There is no way that Ofsted could truthfully state "Many parents" because at the time of the inspection I seem to recall there were less than 30 parent responses posted on the Ofsted site and even now there are only 149 responses or roughly ten percent of parents with children at the school.

There is a record of all NUHOPES given out and it is indeed set out a bit like a league table at the bottom of our childrens gradebooks (end of term report)

Extremely demoralising.

As I said at the start, I am not criticising the school as such, but I am criticising the implementation and execution of the NUHOPE regime. It IS turning children off from school and has been a huge knee-jerk reaction to a blip-that being Marple Hall's one poor Ofsted report in an otherwise impressive record!

I am keeping this post short, as it is late, but I would like to say I hadn't intended for this to become in any way personal between some posters on the forum AND I do generally support the school and support the importance of good discipline.

I just think that NUHOPE is being used as a big stick for a small problem.

I will have another look on facebook at the page, I think it is MARPLE hall, NUHOPE, is it working for you?

I will see if anyone there is thinking about writing to the school and the Governors and see if we can't make it a joint effort. I don't want to undermine the school but I also don't want my children to end up resenting their time there when they have always enjoyed school so much previously . . .
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 08, 2014, 03:31:53 PM
It''s all rather Orwellian, isn't it, and not just because the word NUHOPE sounds horribly like Orwell's 'Newspeak' in 1984!    It's also the assertions that it's 'working', without any evidence to back this up.  As in 'it's working, because we say it's working'!

Meanwhile, this is a very interesting sentence from the Ofsted report:
The leadership team recognises the fine balance between maintaining consistently high expectations of behaviour and sensitively establishing a positive climate for learning and sense of community

It's close to an admission by the school that maybe NUHOPE is not entirely conducive to 'a positive climate for learning and sense of community'.  'I Am' could be pushing at a half-open door........
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: corium on April 08, 2014, 03:48:59 PM
Just to follow up my previous comment it's worth reading the previous Ofsted report from 2012. If you look at the letter the inspectors sent to the pupils towards the end around half the points were behaviour related. Within the body of the report it's a regular issue in many places but here are some extracts:

The large majority of behaviour seen in lessons was good; however, behaviour around the
school and over time paints a less favourable picture. The majority of students who
responded to the survey feel that behaviour is good in their school and in lessons. However,
inspectors spoke to a broader sample of students ..... Some of them raised concerns about the standard of behaviour in a minority of
lessons. The large majority of parents and carers who responded to the survey feel that
behaviour is good at school and the majority feel that lessons are not disrupted by bad
behaviour. However, concerns were raised by parents about behaviour in some lessons and
the poor management of behaviour from time to time.

I accept Nu Hope is not all about behaviour, but there is something of a difference between the 2012 & 2013 reports
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 08, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
Unfortunately, I haven't worked out how to extract quotes from other posts so I will have to copy and paste . . .

From the previous post:"I accept Nu Hope is not all about behaviour, but there is something of a difference between the 2012 & 2013 reports"

I agree that there are many positive differences between the Ofsted reports for 2012 and for 2013 BUT in the 2013 report, under the section regarding behaviour we also see:

 " in some instances, students, while compliant, lacked self-motivation, drive or a thirst to acquire new knowledge."

That certainly is something of a difference, not noted in previous inspections . . .


I would also like to address a couple of other earlier points :

The child who was given NuHope for being late to class, because the previous class let them out late - why was she the only one to get a NuHope, surely the entire class of 20+ kids got one? No, just her? I would imagine then that there were other factors at work that contributed to her lateness.

This is easily explained by the fact that students are not all in the same classes together at the same time. They have taken different options to each other so a group who is let out late from, say P.E., will then go their separate ways to their individual subject lessons.

I am sure contacting school to resolve individual issues is more of a way forward than bitching and stirring on a website

It is clear from this forum that I am not the only parent who has tried to discuss this with school on an individual basis and been left feeling stonewalled. I haven't noticed any bitching or stirring from those expressing concerns about NUHOPE on this forum.

The views on here of 3 or 4 parents  and their friends, whilst clearly important may not represent the majority view.

I am not aware that I personally know any of the other posters on this site. We may not represent the majority view OR we may. We don't know because we all seem to have been told that we are the only individuals complaining. In any case we still have a valid view.


Sometimes these opinions are not real. Sometimes the people aren't even real, sometimes they just assume the persona of their poster identity.

I understand the point being made and yes, posters will assume an identity, mainly to protect themselves and their children from any potential backlash BUT I can assure you that the opinions I have expressed and the scenarios I have described are very real. I cannot speak for any other parents who may have posted in this particular discussion but I can tell you that the situations and emotions they have described are exactly the same things I have heard from other parents who I DO happen to know.


I would be delighted if nuhope was binned but I fear complaining formally as it would upset school and may damage my future relations with them. I'm sure that there will be times when I need their support with my children and so I don't want to fall out with them. Also in many areas the school is excellent.   

How many other parents feel exactly the same way??


As for "data" I do not know exactly what exists. I am only told that less time is now lost dealing with minor issues in lessons but as I've said before, it seems to me that the issues, some incredibly minor, aren't being dealt with atall, merely shifted to a NUHOPE detention.

I don't know if we can private message on here so I might approach the Marple Hall, NUHOPE is it working for you, facebook page and see if they can get people interested in signing on to a letter to the school and governors. It may show that people are not confident in coming forward. It may show that the vast majority are happy with the status quo but it would be nice to be able to canvass parents opinions.
If I look at how many views this discussion has had and compare it to the number of responses; it would look like most people on here have no opinion on the subject but then I have no way of knowing how many members of this forum have school-age children . . .




Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: admin on April 09, 2014, 06:48:40 AM
Unfortunately, I haven't worked out how to extract quotes from other posts so I will have to copy and paste . . .

To quote another post press the "Quote" button when looking at that post and / or while you are crafting your reply scroll down to any of the posts below and click "Insert Quote". You can edit the quoted bit to include only the text you are referring to, just make sure you don't delete the quote controls in the square brackets.

I don't know if we can private message on here. . .

Yes you can private message on here. Just hover the little icons next to the poster's name and click the one that says "send private message" (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/Themes/marple2/images/im_off.gif) or (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/Themes/marple2/images/im_on.gif) (depending on if they are on-line or not).

Here's a link to the Help section for Private Messages: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help;page=pm
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 09, 2014, 09:42:06 AM
Corium's interesting quotes from recent inspection reports are very revealing.

The school has recently introduced a new behaviour management policy, which most teachers are enforcing rigorously. Many parents, students and staff believe that behaviour has improved rapidly at the school as a consequence and inspectors agree.

Having worked in education myself - though mostly in colleges rather than schools - I'm beginning to see what a difficult position the headteacher and governors of MHS are in.  Basically, it looks like this: NUHOPE was introduced by the previous head, who has now left.  In their most recent inspection report (2013), Ofsted found that it had had a beneficial effect (see above).   

Now, look ahead to the next inspection, just as the head and governors will certainly be doing.   If the school abandons NUHOPE before the next inspection, and then the inspectors decide that behaviour has now deteriorated, the new head will be blamed, obviously, and that can have very serious consequences, up to and including the governors requiring his resignation.

On the other hand, if NUHOPE is retained, and the inspectors still decide at the next inspection that behaviour has deteriorated, then he's got the all-clear to scrap it, on the basis that it may have worked in the past, but no longer does so, and anyway, it wasn't his idea!

A depressing reminder that our children are pawns in the chess game of inspection. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 09, 2014, 10:47:06 AM
Dave, given that what you have just written is complete conjecture, as you would no doubt acknowledge, the conclusion you have drawn is rather strange. Don't forget that the new Head hasn't appeared from nowhere - he was the old Deputy Head. Presumably he supported this initiative when it was launched?

More worrying is the fact that the school does not publish the minutes of its Governors meetings either on its website or, indeed, anywhere else AFAIK. I would like to see the notes of the discussions that took place before Nuhope was launched and the record of the decisions made. More specifically, I would be interested in knowing if Nuhope was "endorsed" by the governing body (with the implication that it was effectively a decision by the head) or whether it was "authorised" or "approved" by governors, meaning that they were collectively responsible and accountable for its launch.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: hollins on April 09, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
It's very hard to judge this from the outside, because a lot of the info is third hand.

We've heard a couple of stories from parents about the seemingly stupid little things that have seen their offspring fall foul of NuHope, and if true, then it would appear that either the system is flawed, or it is being implemented badly.

However, from my own experience as a child, and having dealt with children via voluntary youth services, I strongly suspect that the version of events being relayed to the forum (via parents, via their kids), isn't the whole truth. When I was a child, when I got in trouble, unless it was so bad that school phoned home, the version I told my Mum was always significantly watered down. So, someone on here has reported that a child was given a NuHope detention for staring out of the windows. Probably true, but I would imagine that what little Johnny forgot to mention to mum, was that he spent the entire lesson staring out of the window, thus he did no work, and couldn't answer questions when called upon because of it, etc. The child who was given NuHope for being late to class, because the previous class let them out late - why was she the only one to get a NuHope, surely the entire class of 20+ kids got one? No, just her? I would imagine then that there were other factors at work that contributed to her lateness.

The principle of NuHope seems sound to me, clamp down on the small problems and the large ones take care of themselves. For me, the issue is whether it's being implemented properly, fairly and with enough common sense - and I suspect that it is.

But, if you truly believe that NuHope is unfairly impacting upon your children's welfare then follow the advice already laid out here, and make formal complaints.

I'm with marpleexile on this - the actual reason for the NuHope detention may not be quite the same as the reason that the child chooses to pass on to their parents. I'm sure that the school form teachers would be happy to supply the original reasons if asked.

My own children missed the full-school implementation of NuHope (just), so I'm not really a good person to comment, I guess. However, having occasionally had to pick the children up from school reception in the middle of the day (because they were ill!) I did notice a massive improvement in behaviour in the school grounds and corridors over the last few years: something is clearly working.

NuHope's half-hour or (if missed) one-hour detentions seem a relatively minor irritation - an opportunity to get homework done. However, "isolation" has been there since long before NuHope and is definitely nothing to be proud about.

Personally, I think NuHope is just a little bit silly and will eventually get reworked into something less rigid and institutional, if only because it gets costly in staff time to police it. Like Simone, I can't see it being inflicted on future sixth formers. On the whole Marple Hall is a good school and parental involvement in children's education to be recommended.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 09, 2014, 03:21:57 PM
Don't forget that the new Head hasn't appeared from nowhere - he was the old Deputy Head. Presumably he supported this initiative when it was launched?
Don't bank on it.  As 'I Am' wrote earlier in this thread:
Whilst typing this there has been another post about the new Head being opposed to NUHOPE. That has been suggested to me too
I have also heard this said.    If it's true, he would not be the first deputy head to disagree with the headteacher - far from it!  But as I explained above, I think he may be trapped in it for the time being. 

Re this:
More worrying is the fact that the school does not publish the minutes of its Governors meetings either on its website or, indeed, anywhere else AFAIK. I would like to see the notes of the discussions that took place before Nuhope was launched and the record of the decisions made. More specifically, I would be interested in knowing if Nuhope was "endorsed" by the governing body (with the implication that it was effectively a decision by the head) or whether it was "authorised" or "approved" by governors, meaning that they were collectively responsible and accountable for its launch.

These are very good questions.  I would be very surprised if NUHOPE had not been approved by the Board of Governors before it was introduced.  But Bowden Guy and the rest of us are entitled to know that.  The rules are clear: the minutes of school governors meetings are public documents and a school must provide a copy to anyone who asks for it.  A last resort would be a FOI request, but this should not be necessary. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: My login is Henrietta on April 11, 2014, 02:25:46 AM
Miss C,

I think that when you start feeling as if you are being patronised on the inter twaddle then you are taking it all a little bit too much to  heart.

This is an internet forum where people give views and opinions. Sometimes these opinions are not real. Sometimes the people aren't even real, sometimes they just assume the persona of their poster identity. Having said that I really did enjoy your diatribe. I thought that the way the thread of hysteria ran through it was hilarious. It made it Goonish or even Fawltyish and I could easily visualise one of those characters giving forth with those words. I hope that you will consider this a compliment.

Back on topic I think that your own understanding about the role of the governors is incorrect. It is entirely within their remit to do what you say they can't do and in any case the governor situation at MHS is unique within Stockport in that sense.

I have not actually picked up that people are criticising the school outside Nohope. My interpretation of it is that some people believe it to be a good school but that Nohope is detracting from the educational quality of the product in general and the educational experience for the students in particular and if this is what they believe then they are entitled to criticise. those STUDENTS are their CHILDREN It is not really for you to censor or even to understand. If you 'don't get it,' you don't get it - but you don't have to - it is all ENTIRELY up to you.

I think that Marpleexile makes a very good point when he/she talks about things 'unfairly impacting upon your child's welfare....'

If this is the case you have to do something. You can't just side with school because they are the school and they are part of the community.

Dave's advice is good advice ...'a short, reasonable, calm letter'.... and insist on a written reply.  
 
Whilst I support your right to state your mind I do not support your rudeness in your replies to Miss C.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 11, 2014, 07:22:32 AM

"Rudeness" ??

Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Miss C on April 11, 2014, 09:16:47 AM
Thanks henrietta but don't worry about it. This forum tends to be dominated by a few people  and their cogitations at times. For me, I think these type of discussions- a few facts and lots of conjecture can be harmful to a community, whether it's a discussion about a school,, a supermarket or anything else. Some people are too busy sharing their wisdom with us to understand that. The editors do a stellar job but I do wonder what other people would think if they stumble on this forum. I guess the silent majority wouldn't have enough of an opinion to comment; again like newhope and asda.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 11, 2014, 10:07:47 AM
I do wonder what other people would think if they stumble on this forum.

They would be astonished to find themselves in such a haven of civilised courtesy and reasoned debate, compared with most internet forums! 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 11, 2014, 10:22:59 AM
..but I do wonder what other people would think if they stumble on this forum.

They would be struck immediately by the candour, humour and equipoise that is consistent throughout the postings compared to most other intertwaddles.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Miss C on April 11, 2014, 05:20:48 PM
And yet again you two presume to know how others think rather than those of us who just think about the questions. I am bowing out of debates like this one that I don't know enough factual information about for my opinion to be valid; what a shame you both won't be able to do the same and leave it to people like I am the walrus who have genuine concerns and first hand knowledge of a situation. I am the walrus- I hope you can contact the school and resolve your issues with them.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 13, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
I'm with marpleexile on this - the actual reason for the NuHope detention may not be quite the same as the reason that the child chooses to pass on to their parents. I'm sure that the school form teachers would be happy to supply the original reasons if asked.

NUHOPE detentions are served on the day of the "offence", straight after school, which is incredibly inconvenient for anyone who has lifts arranged for their children, or who has appointments arranged for after school etc. When asked why 24 hours notice can't be given the response is "because we don't have to" this doesn't help engender a healthy working cohesion between school and parent. There has been a ridiculous situation last year when a friend of mine was told her child MUST serve the NUHOPE instead of going to pre-arranged after-school catch-up lessons (arranged and hosted by school to help some students improve their grades ready for options)!!

Parents are notified by text, on the day, if their child has received NUHOPE(s) and the reason for the detention is given AND as perviously stated by other parents; if we enquire about the NUHOPE or ring school to ask to postpone, we are given the circumstances of the "offence".

Some of the reasons are so silly that some of the students will actually "apeal" on the day to the Head of NUHOPE and have the detention punishment removed BUT the whole act of having to go through that really impinges on a child's day, on their school routine, and more importantly, on their trust & respect for the staff and the system!

Personally, I think NuHope is just a little bit silly and will eventually get reworked into something less rigid and institutional, if only because it gets costly in staff time to police it. Like Simone, I can't see it being inflicted on future sixth formers. On the whole Marple Hall is a good school and parental involvement in children's education to be recommended.

I am told that one of the NUHOPE sessons last week had around 80 students in it and occupied two classrooms!! So, thats approx 80 text messages, 80 amounts of time spent giving out the NUHOPE, likely 80 amounts of time with the student being less productive as they feel slightly embittered about receiving a NUHOPE, at least two members of staff to run the two classrooms, 80 sets of NUHOPE records to be updated, probably a fair number of phone calls being fielded, by staff, from parents who have received a text message and are unhappy about the reasons given or about the inconvenience of serving a NUHOPE on that particular night (can't it be tomorrow etc.) and the added knowledge that this may so easily happen all over again the next day!

Is it working? Really??

As Ofsted said in 2013:


" in some instances, students, while compliant, lacked self-motivation, drive or a thirst to acquire new knowledge."

Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Phil on April 13, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
"I am", sorry but you are demonstrating by action my fears stated earlier in this thread. You have 9 posts to your name. Every single one on this thread. Every single one castigating NUHOPE. Perhaps you may want to consider contributing to other topics involving the community?

Incidentally, I can't help but notice you seem to be getting very curt responses from the school - for example I'll pretty much guarantee that no authority in the UK would ever answer a genuine question from me with the phrase "because we don't have to". Could it be that somehow you have exhausted THEIR patience (as much as they have exhausted yours)?

You also state that you have been "told" that one of the NUHOPE sessions had 80 students in it. How close exactly are you to the school and/or the regime? Who was it that told you (and how reliable would they be considered by an impartial audience)?

As I said earlier, I may actually agree with you but it is hard to see this as a balanced platform where any supporters of NUHOPE are welcomed to stick their head above the parapet.

RH
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2014, 08:00:22 AM
"I am", sorry but you are demonstrating by action my fears stated earlier in this thread. You have 9 posts to your name. Every single one on this thread. Every single one castigating NUHOPE. Perhaps you may want to consider contributing to other topics involving the community?

I can't see why that should be a problem  'I am' feels strongly about NUHOPE, and therefore uses the forum to promote discussion on the matter.  That's what all of us do.  The last thing a forum such as this needs is members who clutter it up with posts on matters about which they don't actually care very much! 

NUHOPE detentions are served on the day of the "offence", straight after school, which is incredibly inconvenient for anyone who has lifts arranged for their children, or who has appointments arranged for after school etc.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of NUHOPE, this aspect of it suggests a depressingly arrogant and out-of-touch attitude by the school, which says 'you have forgotten your pencil or glanced out of the window, so we can prevent you from going to your piano lesson or your football training'.  As if school is the only thing that matters in a child's life.   ::)
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 14, 2014, 08:56:03 AM
"I am", sorry but you are demonstrating by action my fears stated earlier in this thread. You have 9 posts to your name. Every single one on this thread. Every single one castigating NUHOPE. Perhaps you may want to consider contributing to other topics involving the community?

Phil, I am frankly baffled by both of your inputs into this discussion. I started this thread, and am commenting on it, as my family are affected by the subject and it is the only one I currently feel qualified to comment on.

You don't know if I am relatively new to the area or if I am a lifelong resident: don't forget, Marple Hall School now serves a much wider community than just Marple as several secondary schools in the borough have been closed over the last couple of decades.

You say I am castigating NUHOPE but you have conveniently missed the fact that I have said it obviously works for some but is seriously failing others. You have also missed the fact that I support the school, in general, and that I feel they achieve good results AND that the Ofsted report which resulted in NUHOPE being instigated was an unfortunate blip for the school.

Incidentally, I can't help but notice you seem to be getting very curt responses from the school - for example I'll pretty much guarantee

Most responses from the school are perfectly proffessional, polite and pleasant. That one, very early on in any communications, not so much.

A"pretty much guarantee" isn't really a guarantee.

As I said earlier, I may actually agree with you but it is hard to see this as a balanced platform where any supporters of NUHOPE are welcomed to stick their head above the parapet.
RH

You have now taken two opportunities to tell me that you may well agree with me but that you are not going to tell me you agree with me??? Two wasted opportunities to comment on the subject at hand instead of being personal towards me in your opinions.

Forums like this are rarely balanced as they only reflect the opinions of those who are willing to comment.

I think if you read back you will find that most people who have commented have supported the school but are not happy with the way NUHOPE is being handled. THOSE people are the ones who have then been "castigated" (too strong a word in this instance) for their parenting skills, for their communication skills or for their unwillingness to risk confrontation.

You will also find that NO-ONE has spoken in outright favour of NUHOPE, especially not you, or have you? I don't know because you won't tell me.

I think, looking at the numbers of times this thread has been read compared to the small number of comments in relation, Miss C. was right when she/he suggested that the silent majority don't have a strong opinion to offer one way or the other. Perhaps one should assume, therefore, that most people are happy with the status quo.

So, as I said at the start; I may be way out of line with my thinking on this but nobody on here has yet suggested that.

Finally Phil, apologies for the multi-paragraphs. I know you have inferred you don't like them but it is the best way to separate points so they can be read clearly. Apologies also for the fact that you have provoked me to respond on a personal level to your comments.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 14, 2014, 01:12:24 PM
Blimey, bold type, capital letters, underlining, double question marks all in the same post. However, disappointed not to see even one exclamation mark!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 14, 2014, 02:15:11 PM
This is an Internet forum and as such it hosts opinions.

There is no rule that says opinions have to be: expert; balanced, eloquent, intelligent or that the 'person' holding them has to have first hand experience of or be directly effected by the issue under discussion.

If a poster wishes to make a hundred posts about one issue or one post about a hundred issues  - then so what ?

Just because you are making your 99th post doesn't mean that you are superior or inferior or even different in any way  to others that are making their first or their 250th.

If an opinion is expressed in an inappropriate way for this website then I am sure it will be moderated. Nevertheless our opinions should be given the way we wish to give them and not the way others would wish us to.

The only qualifications in my opinion that an opinion has to have to be valid (pay attention Miss C) are that it has to be;

a) held
b) given

All this of course  applies to responses to opinions and responses to responses etc etc .


There is no wish on my part to cause offence to anybody by this posting although it would not surprise me at all if somebody took it.
 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 14, 2014, 04:52:48 PM
Bowden Guy, I am fond of excessive use of multiple exclamation marks - usually.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2014, 07:34:47 AM
I think, looking at the numbers of times this thread has been read compared to the small number of comments in relation, Miss C. was right when she/he suggested that the silent majority don't have a strong opinion to offer one way or the other. Perhaps one should assume, therefore, that most people are happy with the status quo.

Talking to a small and totally unscientific sample of friends and acquaintances who currently have children at MHS, and in some cases talking to those children as well, the reaction I tend to get when I ask about NUHOPE is a shrug, a roll of the eyes, and a feeling of resignation.  One if them said 'It's stupid and annoying, but what can you do'.  I have yet to meet anyone who is 'happy with the status quo'. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 15, 2014, 07:42:25 AM
My experience reflects yours Dave to be honest but finding people willing to stand together is not easy. Everyone respects the importance of discipline and doesn't want to be seen to undermine the school's authority but can also see that NUHOPE, at times, is eroding that authority…
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 15, 2014, 08:12:28 AM
Yes, Dave, it is is a small and totally unscientific sample.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: elpram on April 16, 2014, 08:49:34 PM
Hello, I am....
My daughter is in y10 and was only subject to the regime from midway through y9 as it was progressively introduced, bottom up. She has managed to avoid any sanction so far - though how, is beyond me!!  She and most of her peers regard NUHOPE with contempt but a fair few of them (even the swots) seem to have fallen foul and ended up with their names on "ze list" and not for being "naughty" but more for being forgetful or poorly organised.

I suppose that I am one of the silent majority at least until such time as my daughter is detained for wearing nail polish which is supposedly a transgression of uniform rules. I will then tell them that they are right to pull her up for it but unless she tells them to F off...I won't think it worthy of a detention!

With only a year more to go I won't be sweating it too much for my daughter but my 9 year old son has some learning difficulties and is very poorly organised and quite apart from the educational concerns when thinking about high school for an SEN child I will be asking Marple Hall specific questions about how they expect him to be able to cope with NUHOPE or I fear he will be spending most evenings in detention  :-\

Maybe by then there will have been a reversal. I noted whilst trawling the school website for SEN info that NUHOPE doesn't  get a mention - it features only in the current issue students' pastoral handbooks.

Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 17, 2014, 08:17:35 AM
Hello elpram, thanks for your comments; all input is appreciated. I'm glad your daughter hasn't had any issues so far and I am sure she is not alone although the fact that she and her peers regard NUHOPE with contempt is certainly one of the problems being discussed.
I have no experience of how Marple Hall School copes with SEN children so I can't comment on that but it sounds like he really wouldn't settle well with NUHOPE.

You say you suppose you are one of the silent majority and that you fear your son will spend most evenings in detention if NUHOPE continues but that maybe by then there will have been a reversal . . . I'm not sure what will make the school reverse a policy, which they regard as successful, if the silent majority stay silent.

I still think parents are feeling stuck in not wishing to undermine the school or, as some have said, find that their children are "targetted" as a reaction to their parents' complaint, but at the same time not being atall satisfied with the current situation.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 17, 2014, 10:23:51 AM
parents are feeling stuck in not wishing to undermine the school or, as some have said, find that their children are "targetted" as a reaction to their parents' complaint

I think such fears are unfounded. It's extremely unlikely that such 'targetting' would occur.  As I've said before, if a group of like-minded parents were to write a letter to the Headteacher, (cc Chair of Governors and Parent Governors), expressing their concerns in a constructive and supportive way, it would do no harm and might possibly do some good.  One suggestion might be to drop NUHOPE for a trial period (e.g. next autumn term) and monitor the effects. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: I am the Walrus on April 17, 2014, 02:11:54 PM
I agree with you, Dave. I would be happy to write such a letter and sign it. I just wonder if anybody else would like to be involved?
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: simonesaffron on April 18, 2014, 07:07:05 AM
Walrus,

Perhaps initially you could ask admin if  he would be prepared to set up something on this site to test your support level.

I am not making this an indirect request you understand, it is just a possible suggestion to you. The request would have to come from you to him. 

I would gladly sign your letter but I am not a parent with children at the school and I think for such a document to have any bearing this is an absolute prerequisite.   
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Dave on April 18, 2014, 07:55:43 AM
Interesting idea from Simone, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything, and it might even turn out to be counter-productive.  For example,  people might see it as a 'bandwagon', jump aboard and use it as a platform to attack the school.   And the involvement in such a campaign by non-parents could invite the obvious retort from the school that people who are not current MHS parents don't understand the issues.

As Simone herself writes:
I am not a parent with children at the school and I think for such a document to have any bearing this is an absolute prerequisite.   

Absolutely!  Parents are stakeholders in a way that we ex-parents aren't any longer.  Parents don't always realise the power and influence they can exercise if they approach a school in the right way.   They are the customers, and 'the customer is always right'. The key to success, I think, is to be completely supportive of what the school is seeking to achieve (i.e. good behaviour and high achievement), but to argue that a more intelligent and less arbitrary system can enable these things to be achieved in better ways, and without the unwanted side effect of causing children to lose respect for authority. 
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Lisa Oldham on April 20, 2014, 12:53:59 PM
Crikey Its got active here since I put a post on ages ago! :)

I absolutely hate NUHOPE. When kids stop getting notes home about good work and get notes congratulating them on not having detentions there is something very wrong.

However... it was a regime introduced by a particularly badly chosen(in my opinion) and incredibly unpopular head teacher who has thankfully gone.

The new head was a deputy then but I don't think we can presume it was a regime he supported wholeheartedly!  Since becoming head the regime in my opinion is not as strict, some teachers as before over do it, others, as before, totally ignore, generally it seems more relaxed.  I think it will disappear or be overhauled in the next year or so.

Going on what kids think, the new head is someone they respect and is popular with kids and staff alike. He needs time to get stuck in.  I've recently seen how well hes dealt with a situation where very amusing but disrespectful pictures depicting MH teachers were posted on the internet.  He and his team showed great professionalism, excellent balance and sense of humour but also discipline in dealing with that situation.  As a result the kids involved were punished but accepted that punishment with grace and the staff gained great respect as a result.  I think we  give it time.

I find him approachable and friendly, as are all the deputy head and the current management team. This is not how I felt 3 years ago so I'd suggest if anyone has worries about their children and NUHOPE then call and discuss.  There is not just teaching staff at the school but a large array of support services for children internal and external that can help kids with all sorts of issues.


Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 06, 2015, 11:48:58 AM
Anyone know whether NuHope is still in force at Marple Hall School?
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: corium on April 06, 2015, 12:15:11 PM
Yes it is but modified significantly.
Title: Re: Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime
Post by: JMC on April 07, 2015, 06:57:57 PM
Anyone know whether NuHope is still in force at Marple Hall School?

yes still the same