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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: admin on June 25, 2013, 03:53:14 PM
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There's a teacher strike on Thursday 27 June, Some schools are closed, some partially open and some fully open.
Here's a list of who's who from Stockport Council:
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/3004/teachersstrike_27June
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There's a teacher strike on Thursday 27 June, Some schools are closed, some partially open and some fully open.
Here's a list of who's who from Stockport Council:
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/3004/teachersstrike_27June
Never on strike on a miserable day in February are they? Nor are they on strike in August when they are doing 'lesson planning'
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Duke, surly a strike is aimed at causing the maximum disruption why would teachers strike in August when they are on holiday. I am not sure you understand the nature of the strike
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Duke, surly a strike is aimed at causing the maximum disruption why would teachers strike in August when they are on holiday. I am not sure you understand the nature of the strike
Do they receive payment or strikes .
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Duke, surly a strike is aimed at causing the maximum disruption why would teachers strike in August when they are on holiday. I am not sure you understand the nature of the strike
It also helps if the sun is out and they can hit the beach. Is there a more overly-cosseted profession?
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Talking to a few people I know who are teachers, they seem to be either getting out of the job, or wanting to do so. It seems to have become a job that no-one in their right mind would want to do. They report that the % of children who don't know how to behave has increased exponentially in the past five years or so. They are constantly harangued by Ofsted, who move the goalposts every other week. Governments constantly introduce exciting (but untested) new initiatives, new exam systems and new sets of targets. It has all the signs of having become one of the most stressful jobs there is.
Is there a more overly-cosseted profession?
GPs. Paramedics. Dieticians. Librarians. Hairdressers. Beauticians. Chartered Accountants.
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Of course there is a more cosseted profession Duke - Our Police Thugs
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They report that the % of children who don't know how to behave has increased exponentially in the past five years or so.
I agree with this. In my son's class there are two extremely badly behaved and disruptive/violent boys. They constantly seem to 'get away' with it, many parents are fed up. There has been violence, bullying over special needs/disabilities and racism and sexually explicit language etc. as well as daily disruption, throwing chairs etc. They really spoil it for the rest of the class. There should be better discipline and if they can't behave they should be kicked into isolation/bad behaviour schools.
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Support the teachers. They don't get paid when they take industrial action and do not strike at the drop of a hat. No one likes the disruption but how else can they bring their issues to our attention? This Tory-led government never relents in its attacks on our public services.
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Support the teachers. They don't get paid when they take industrial action and do not strike at the drop of a hat. No one likes the disruption but how else can they bring their issues to our attention? This Tory-led government never relents in its attacks on our public services.
Agree with you there tony .
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Support the teachers. They don't get paid when they take industrial action and do not strike at the drop of a hat. No one likes the disruption but how else can they bring their issues to our attention? This Tory-led government never relents in its attacks on our public services.
They do not strike at the drop of a hat, Tony, they wait until the summer when there is half a chance of a nice suntan on their jolly day off.
Let's change the record on attacks on the public services, try working a little harder and get on with the job that those in the real world pay far too much for.
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Only on Planet Duke would anyone suggest that someone who stands in front of 30 unruly kids all day is in some way not in the 'real world'. ::)
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Only on Planet Duke would anyone suggest that someone who stands in front of 30 unruly kids all day is in some way not in the 'real world'. ::)
If the kids are unruly, perhaps they need an additional training day, sometime in August perhaps?
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Or perhaps, Duke, their parents need the training given that their kids belong to them, not their teachers.....
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Or perhaps, Duke, their parents need the training given that their kids belong to them, not their teachers.....
I agree with you there, the state pays people to become parents when they are not emotionally, economically, socially ready nor mature enough to start families. Cancel child benefits and housing for all children born 9 months from now, that will change that.
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Good idea Duke. After all, if there are homeless women sleeping on the streets with their children, they can always send their kids up chimneys to clean them, just like in the good old days! :D
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Good idea Duke. After all, if there are homeless women sleeping on the streets with their children, they can always send their kids up chimneys to clean them, just like in the good old days! :D
The good old days .me dad used to do owers when I lived at Woodley . Put the soot on the allotment good stuff
Anybody remember the good old days .come on let's have some comment .what you used to do .no take always or restraunts just a chippy at the bottom of the road under the rail way bridge at Woodley called nights chippy .then ther was one at trafic lights near st marks church that was called fodens .
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I agree with you there, the state pays people to become parents when they are not emotionally, economically, socially ready nor mature enough to start families. Cancel child benefits and housing for all children born 9 months from now, that will change that.
I'd go further. Cancel subsidised Child Care, so that mothers stay at home and bring up their own children to be well behaved, sociable and good mannered. Rather than farming them out at the first opportunity, at the taxpayers expense, so they can go back to work, and then blaming 'the system' when they turn out to be little monsters.
Then people would only have children when they want and can afford them, and it would free jobs up for people who need them.
Parents need to take responsibility for their own children. The second car on the driveway is not important. The child is.
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Good idea Duke. After all, if there are homeless women sleeping on the streets with their children, they can always send their kids up chimneys to clean them, just like in the good old days! :D
Thanks Dave, having some responsibility for one's own decisions seems as alien concept to some parents and politicians.
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Nice idea Duke, let's plunge even more children into poverty.
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Nice idea Duke, let's plunge even more children into poverty.
Thanks Tony but I can't agree with your follow up idea.
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Support the teachers. They don't get paid when they take industrial action and do not strike at the drop of a hat. No one likes the disruption but how else can they bring their issues to our attention? This Tory-led government never relents in its attacks on our public services.
Tory led with considerable lib dem support of course : this is a coalition after all .
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It's a free country, so they say and Teachers the same as any other group of employees are entitled to be in dispute with their employers if they wish.
What I don't understand is the tepid tactics of the Teachers during these "disputes". Can there be a more powerful, political lobby these days than the Teachers? When the miners had that mantle in post - war Britain they just went on strike until their demands were met. They didn't have credit cards, partners with jobs, money in the bank. They worked to eat and were fortunate if they got a couple of quid out of the hardship fund but they stuck it out until they got what they thought was right - whether it was or not. In the end we didn't need their coal anymore, so they were beaten but Teachers don't have that problem.
What is the point of "striking" for one day in the middle of June ? For one day we can always get granny in or a neighbour or take a day off work to look after the kids.
If Teachers really feel that they've got a dispute then why don't they strike for two weeks in the run up to Christmas this year, then threaten to strike for the first week back in January . See what effect that has,then the politicians will really sit up and take notice.
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If Teachers really feel that they've got a dispute then why don't they strike for two weeks in the run up to Christmas this year, then threaten to strike for the first week back in January . See what effect that has,then the politicians will really sit up and take notice.
No doubt the teaching unions have considered taking such an approach, and realised that it would almost certainly be counter-productive. The Murdoch papers and the other right-wing press (Mail, Express, Telegraph) would have a field day, lambasting these disgraceful teachers who punish innocent defenceless children for their own selfish ends, etc etc etc. Public opinion would quickly turn against them, and the teachers' campaign would soon collapse
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No doubt the teaching unions have considered taking such an approach, and realised that it would almost certainly be counter-productive. The Murdoch papers and the other right-wing press (Mail, Express, Telegraph) would have a field day, lambasting these disgraceful teachers who punish innocent defenceless children for their own selfish ends, etc etc etc. Public opinion would quickly turn against them, and the teachers' campaign would soon collapse
Dave,
Apart from the bit about the Tory trio press I disagree entirely with your whole assertion, public opinion would be divided. In fact that's the big issue now anybody that has anything to say or do that courts the slightest bit of controversy, in the very first instance before they do it, considers the stance of the press - exactly as you are doing, and that governs whether they will do it or not. Press reaction should be a side-effect of a stance not the reason for it.
Anyway, whatever our disagreements, you surely must agree that announced and spasmodic one day strikes by Teachers are a pointless exercise for them and will produce nothing for them only the loss of a day's pay and irritation from the public. Such "disputes" are just seen as a minor inconvenience that parents will surely learn to cope with very easily.
No, the reason the unions have not taken my previously suggested route is quite simply because the Teachers themselves have not got the bottle for it.
Probably because they have given too much consideration to the reaction of the Press.
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Simone, if you need evidence for how the tabloid press shapes public opinion, look no further than 'scroungers on welfare' and 'migrants who take our jobs'. ::)
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Simone, if you need evidence for how the tabloid press shapes public opinion, look no further than 'scroungers on welfare' and 'migrants who take our jobs'. ::)
Dave,
Of course I accept that the media in general and tabloid press in particular shape public opinion. What I am saying is particularly about the Teachers. Their tactics of one day strikes where half the schools are shut and half of them are half -shut are totally ineffective. If you are going to withdraw your labour then withdraw it. If you're going to have a fight, have one, don't just take your coat off then put it back on because you think some nasty journo will write something bad about you.
I repeat the Teachers haven't got the bottle and the government and the public know it.
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It could be that they have not got the bottle as you put it because many of them know they do not have a case nor do they think that they would garner public support at the moment.
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Actually I think all three of us are saying the same thing in slightly different ways: that the teachers are avoiding calling an all-out strike because they are scared of getting on the wrong side of public opinion.
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Personally, I couldn't care less whether teachers strike or not, what I do have strong views on is that teachers striking, post office workers, civil servants and the rest are clearly striking at the behest of the unions who want to destabilise the Government. I don't agree with everything that this Government has done, but it is a fact of life that there has to be cuts to try and restore some financial management to the country after three terms of a labour Government landed us with a mega debt.
I also wish to take exception to comments of 'wheel' on 27/6 in which he referred to 'our police thugs' the Police do a sterling job, putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, as happened with the murders of the two police officers in Tameside. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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It's a free country, so they say and Teachers the same as any other group of employees are entitled to be in dispute with their employers if they wish.
What I don't understand is the tepid tactics of the Teachers during these "disputes". Can there be a more powerful, political lobby these days than the Teachers? When the miners had that mantle in post - war Britain they just went on strike until their demands were met. They didn't have credit cards, partners with jobs, money in the bank. They worked to eat and were fortunate if they got a couple of quid out of the hardship fund but they stuck it out until they got what they thought was right - whether it was or not. In the end we didn't need their coal anymore, so they were beaten but Teachers don't have that problem.
What is the point of "striking" for one day in the middle of June ? For one day we can always get granny in or a neighbour or take a day off work to look after the kids.
If Teachers really feel that they've got a dispute then why don't they strike for two weeks in the run up to Christmas this year, then threaten to strike for the first week back in January . See what effect that has,then the politicians will really sit up and take notice.
Because it's very unlikely in those weeks that they will get a nice day in the garden catching some rays and having a glass or two of Lambrini.
In the debate, I hardly hear any consideration for teacher's customers i.e. the kids and parents, teachers seem to think schools exist to provide them a living.
It's a very selfish attitude, the problem with teachers is that they haven't had a real world job.
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"It's a very selfish attitude, the problem with teachers is that they haven't had a real world job."
How lovely, Duke. Any other untrue, offensive and ignorant comments you'd like to bring to the table? Or do you just enjoy being provocative for the sake of it? You should be ashamed of yourself.
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the problem with teachers is that they haven't had a real world job.
Don't you just love that phrase :D Don't know what Duke does for a living, but if it's even tougher or more 'real world' than standing in front of 30 unruly teenagers day after day and attempting to instill some knowledge into them, I'd love to know what it is!
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Personally, I couldn't care less whether teachers strike or not, what I do have strong views on is that teachers striking, post office workers, civil servants and the rest are clearly striking at the behest of the unions who want to destabilise the Government. I don't agree with everything that this Government has done, but it is a fact of life that there has to be cuts to try and restore some financial management to the country after three terms of a labour Government landed us with a mega debt.
I also wish to take exception to comments of 'wheel' on 27/6 in which he referred to 'our police thugs' the Police do a sterling job, putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, as happened with the murders of the two police officers in Tameside. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Sterling job lol. On a day when we see the report that many forces are misusing stop and search. What you see as individual doing a sterling job I see as institutional bullies.
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Don't you just love that phrase :D Don't know what Duke does for a living, but if it's even tougher or more 'real world' than standing in front of 30 unruly teenagers day after day and attempting to instill some knowledge into them, I'd love to know what it is!
A job which they have been trained to do at the state's expense?
My point is that teachers rarely leave education for any significant time before their teaching career. It leaves teachers with a lack of a world view. Personally, I think teaching should be a job that people retire into.
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With tuition fees and student loans, teachers largely pay for their own training these days. In any case I want teachers to be properly qualified to teach my children. One of the worrying strands of thought from the present Education Minister is the belief that people can just step into teaching without any training.
As with any job teachers become more experienced over time but a life times experience doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher. And I have seen some excellent young newly qualified teachers.
The teachers strike will have no effect on the changes to their pensions. This has been implemented in most other areas of the public sector. However, they have the right to also protest against cuts in teaching assistants and yet another round of changes to the curriculum.
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Don't you just love that phrase :D Don't know what Duke does for a living, but if it's even tougher or more 'real world' than standing in front of 30 unruly teenagers day after day and attempting to instill some knowledge into them, I'd love to know what it is!
Why do assume that teenagers are necessarily unruly ? Serious over generalisation .
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Why do assume that teenagers are necessarily unruly ? Serious over generalisation .
They are not necessarily unruly, but sadly it seems that bad behaviour is on the increase - ask any teacher, or check this post from earlier in this very thread:
In my son's class there are two extremely badly behaved and disruptive/violent boys. They constantly seem to 'get away' with it, many parents are fed up. There has been violence, bullying over special needs/disabilities and racism and sexually explicit language etc. as well as daily disruption, throwing chairs etc. They really spoil it for the rest of the class. There should be better discipline and if they can't behave they should be kicked into isolation/bad behaviour schools.
Apparently about 75% of teachers get out of teaching before they reach retirement age - I believe it is statistically the highest burnout rate of any job! So only on Planet Duke would anyone suggest that:
teaching should be a job that people retire into.
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With tuition fees and student loans, teachers largely pay for their own training these days. In any case I want teachers to be properly qualified to teach my children. One of the worrying strands of thought from the present Education Minister is the belief that people can just step into teaching without any training.
As with any job teachers become more experienced over time but a life times experience doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher. And I have seen some excellent young newly qualified teachers.
The teachers strike will have no effect on the changes to their pensions. This has been implemented in most other areas of the public sector. However, they have the right to also protest against cuts in teaching assistants and yet another round of changes to the curriculum.
They have the right to strike but the government should have the right to not take a blind bit of notice, as do the public who pay their wages.
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They are not necessarily unruly, but sadly it seems that bad behaviour is on the increase - ask any teacher, or check this post from earlier in this very thread:
Apparently about 75% of teachers get out of teaching before they reach retirement age - I believe it is statistically the highest burnout rate of any job! So only on Planet Duke would anyone suggest that:
I'd like to see those statistics. I doubt many people stay in the same role for as long as a teacher so very much doubt the validity of your stats.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/182407/DFE-RR151.pdf
To save Duke from ploughing through it, the key paragraphs are:
• Leavers from teaching can be grouped into retirements (25%) and
movements out of the publicly funded sector (75%). Some of the latter group
will have remained in teaching, in the independent sector, further education or
teaching outside of England.
• Factors statistically associated with non-retirement teacher wastage
(potentially cases of ‘burn-out’) included part-time working patterns, having
less than 5 years of teaching experience, overseas or Teach First training,
and being aged over 40 for male teachers or over 50 for female teachers.
The final words there are an illustration of why teaching is not a suitable occupation for retirees. ::)
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https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/182407/DFE-RR151.pdf
To save Duke from ploughing through it, the key paragraphs are:
• Leavers from teaching can be grouped into retirements (25%) and
movements out of the publicly funded sector (75%). Some of the latter group
will have remained in teaching, in the independent sector, further education or
teaching outside of England.
• Factors statistically associated with non-retirement teacher wastage
(potentially cases of ‘burn-out’) included part-time working patterns, having
less than 5 years of teaching experience, overseas or Teach First training,
and being aged over 40 for male teachers or over 50 for female teachers.
The final words there are an illustration of why teaching is not a suitable occupation for retirees. ::)
Because teachers aren't up to the job doesn't mean that those who may want to coast into retirement shouldn't transfer into the profession.
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Give it a go Duke - you might even last ten minutes :D
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Personally, I couldn't care less whether teachers strike or not, what I do have strong views on is that teachers striking, post office workers, civil servants and the rest are clearly striking at the behest of the unions who want to destabilise the Government. I don't agree with everything that this Government has done, but it is a fact of life that there has to be cuts to try and restore some financial management to the country after three terms of a labour Government landed us with a mega debt.
I also wish to take exception to comments of 'wheel' on 27/6 in which he referred to 'our police thugs' the Police do a sterling job, putting their lives on the line on a daily basis, as happened with the murders of the two police officers in Tameside. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I think Beverley it will take quite a bit more than you to "take exception" to induce a feeling of shame in Wheels.
There are some police heroes I agree and the Tameside example that you quote was a tragedy. But there are also some police villains as well. I recall hearing last week how an unarmed innocent man was shot dead in the street because some police officer mistakenly though that he had a gun. I think that the inquest recorded a verdict of unlawful killing. I think if you study the figures you'll find quite a lot of reference to death and injury to innocent people caused by the Police's "bad judgement." So, Whilst I don't agree with Wheel's histrionic descriptions he does have appoint with the rest of it.
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And there is me thinking I was being very mild mannered on this occasion.
I also think that if I as a middle aged, well 60+ is middle aged now, white, middle class male hold these views, in common with many others, then the Police have a real problem. How do the disaffected of our society feel.
Your right Simone I have a real suspicion of the police both as an institution and of the individuals.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/182407/DFE-RR151.pdf
To save Duke from ploughing through it, the key paragraphs are:
• Leavers from teaching can be grouped into retirements (25%) and
movements out of the publicly funded sector (75%). Some of the latter group
will have remained in teaching, in the independent sector, further education or
teaching outside of England.
• Factors statistically associated with non-retirement teacher wastage
(potentially cases of ‘burn-out’) included part-time working patterns, having
less than 5 years of teaching experience, overseas or Teach First training,
and being aged over 40 for male teachers or over 50 for female teachers.
The final words there are an illustration of why teaching is not a suitable occupation for retirees. ::)
Is it not the fact that it's so easy for teachers to be pensioned off, so many are just playing the game. My pal who is a teacher has it all worked out, he'd working up to his x numbe rof years and feigning a breakdown to be pensioned off.
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Is it not the fact that it's so easy for teachers to be pensioned off, so many are just playing the game. My pal who is a teacher has it all worked out, he'd working up to his x numbe rof years and feigning a breakdown to be pensioned off.
As you're so hot on benefit scroungers I guess that as soon as he does it you're ready to turn him in. Here's the link just in case you have lost it:
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/ (https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/)
It's also available in Welsh...
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This is what you have to do to get an early pension on ill health grounds: https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/resources/~/media/Files/Documents/Forms/Ill_health_factsheet_v1_0.ashx
To satisfy the criteria for early retirement on grounds of ill health,
it is necessary to demonstrate that:
• The applicant suffers from a recognised medical condition;
• The applicant has completed all reasonable treatment;
• The medical condition renders them incapable of teaching,
either full or part-time or at another establishment;
• The incapacity is on the balance of probability likely to continue
until normal retirement age.
So congratulations to Duke's 'pal' who could be an Oscar-winning actor with an unusually compliant GP, for taking us all for a ride. But the reality is, Duke's pal isn't coping - s/he must be desperate to get out of teaching, and that's the point I've been trying to make - it's not a job for us old codgers!
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As you're so hot on benefit scroungers I guess that as soon as he does it you're ready to turn him in. Here's the link just in case you have lost it:
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/ (https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/)
It's also available in Welsh...
I've pointed out to him that working in the public sector is being a scrounger off the state, it really makes little difference.
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This is what you have to do to get an early pension on ill health grounds: https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/resources/~/media/Files/Documents/Forms/Ill_health_factsheet_v1_0.ashx
To satisfy the criteria for early retirement on grounds of ill health,
it is necessary to demonstrate that:
• The applicant suffers from a recognised medical condition;
• The applicant has completed all reasonable treatment;
• The medical condition renders them incapable of teaching,
either full or part-time or at another establishment;
• The incapacity is on the balance of probability likely to continue
until normal retirement age.
So congratulations to Duke's 'pal' who could be an Oscar-winning actor with an unusually compliant GP, for taking us all for a ride. But the reality is, Duke's pal isn't coping - s/he must be desperate to get out of teaching, and that's the point I've been trying to make - it's not a job for us old codgers!
He has the easiest life ever, his hours are so short and as he says, you don't have to hit the kids, just make them think you will hit them.
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working in the public sector is being a scrounger off the state
I think Duke would be wise to keep quiet about that next time he's in hospital - a clumsy enema can be surprisingly painful :o
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I think Duke would be wise to keep quiet about that next time he's in hospital - a clumsy enema can be surprisingly painful :o
I try not to clog up the NHS with cosmetic desires. If more thought the same,the NHS would cost us less and provide a better service