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Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: amazon on February 22, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
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Are Mia allowed to speak at this meeting .acording to there latest blurb they will be .
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
Glad when we if we do have a alternative supermarket in marple the coop was pathetic this .morning. Not late tenoclockish no baguettes only just put the in the oven .no wonder people shop out of marple the attitude of the place is just all wrong .
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Nobody should be prohibited from speaking if they wish, It is a public meeting. I don't see any point though myself. The conclusion is absolutely foregone.
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
Glad when we if we do have a alternative supermarket in marple the coop was pathetic this .morning. Not late tenoclockish no baguettes only just put the in the oven .no wonder people shop out of marple the attitude of the place is just all wrong .
Gosh, whatever could anyone do, I mean, can anyone think of anywhere else at 10 a.m. where one could possibly buy an elongated bread based staple food item? I think the only answer is to comletely decimate the main trading area and build a monstrosity of a hypermarket in a really inappropriate place
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Nobody should be prohibited from speaking if they wish, It is a public meeting. I don't see any point though myself. The conclusion is absolutely foregone.
Simone thats not the case usually. Normally it would be one person speaking against the proposal and one person for it. 3 minutes each. Thats it.
Its not a public meeting whereby anyone can just pitch up and put their opinion forward.
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
Glad when we if we do have a alternative supermarket in marple the coop was pathetic this .morning. Not late tenoclockish no baguettes only just put the in the oven .no wonder people shop out of marple the attitude of the place is just all wrong .
Gosh, whatever could anyone do, I mean, can anyone think of anywhere else at 10 a.m. where one could possibly buy an elongated bread based staple food item? I think the only answer is to comletely decimate the main trading area and build a monstrosity of a hypermarket in a really inappropriate place
If I go to a supermarket and idont think you can call the coop so .i would expect to buy what I require not to be told its only just gone in the oven . At ten o'clock .if it were any other supermarket I don't think that would be the answer .it would be there .ready to buy . Competition is what the coop require it far to easy for them .
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
Glad when we if we do have a alternative supermarket in marple the coop was pathetic this .morning. Not late tenoclockish no baguettes only just put the in the oven .no wonder people shop out of marple the attitude of the place is just all wrong .
Gosh, whatever could anyone do, I mean, can anyone think of anywhere else at 10 a.m. where one could possibly buy an elongated bread based staple food item? I think the only answer is to comletely decimate the main trading area and build a monstrosity of a hypermarket in a really inappropriate place
If I go to a supermarket and idont think you can call the coop so .i would expect to buy what I require not to be told its only just gone in the oven . At ten o'clock .if it were any other supermarket I don't think that would be the answer .it would be there .ready to buy . Competition is what the coop require it far to easy for them .
Are you sure you can't think of a place or two than may just be able to provide that bread based snack you need, within maybe just a 1 min / 5 kcal walk from a co-op checkout?
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As long as the YES group are allowed to also speak. Doubt MIA will allow them to without heckling though.
Glad when we if we do have a alternative supermarket in marple the coop was pathetic this .morning. Not late tenoclockish no baguettes only just put the in the oven .no wonder people shop out of marple the attitude of the place is just all wrong .
Yes but if
Gosh, whatever could anyone do, I mean, can anyone think of anywhere else at 10 a.m. where one could possibly buy an elongated bread based staple food item? I think the only answer is to comletely decimate the main trading area and build a monstrosity of a hypermarket in a really inappropriate place
If I go to a supermarket and idont think you can call the coop so .i would expect to buy what I require not to be told its only just gone in the oven . At ten o'clock .if it were any other supermarket I don't think that would be the answer .it would be there .ready to buy . Competition is what the coop require it far to easy for them .
Are you sure you can't think of a place or two than may just be able to provide that bread based snack you need, within maybe just a 1 min / 5 kcal walk from a co-op checkout?
Yes but I should be able to go to the coop at a resonable time and not be told they just gone In the oven I'm not saying I could have not bought anyware else .
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Did anything exiting happen at the meeting tonight?
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Did anything exiting happen at the meeting tonight?
Who are you asking .if me I was not at the meeting tonight .
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Sorry amazon was asking the forum in general from the thread
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Sorry amazon was asking the forum in general from the thread
Ok no problem .
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Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.
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Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.
Absolutely nothing happened at this evenings meeting that we did not already know would happen. I dispair that 200 are so gullible as to turn up. Even when we get to H&P we already know what the decision will be.
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Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.
So we can guess what side Henry supports then!
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Henry's summary of the meeting speaks volumes for how badly the college has dealt with this issue, allowing it to be seen as an issue about a new supermarket, instead of what it should always have been: an issue about Marple getting a rebuilt college.
the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application..... A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case ...The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. ...local opposition to the Asda scheme.
'The Asda proposal'....'Asda representatives'....'Asda's case', etc etc ::) That's not what it should be about. Where were the college's representatives? Why wasn't the college's case put to the meeting?
And as for this: The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence.
As one of that 'majority' (though I have not been silent, I guess ;)) I was certainly not going to go along and speak in support of Asda. I couldn't care less about Asda. But if the college had been there in force, and sought to use the occasion as a platform to speak loudly and passionately about the importance of education to the local community, I and others might have felt very differently, and who knows, perhaps the college could even have shamed our councillors into taking a more supportive attitude to this issue. As it is, they have badly let us down, and the coming generations of young prople who will continue to put up with second rate and deteriorating facilities.
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I didn't go to the meeting but just because ASDA referred to "the silent majority" (well they would wouldn't they) that doesn't actually mean that there is one.
I disagree Dave, Councillors have not let anybody down. In fact the contrary is true. They've held a view, they've been continuous throughout, they've stood by it and they've defended/promoted it at every opportunity. They've faced the public just as they did again last night. Whether you agree or disagree with them - they have been there - which is more than can be said for the College.
It is the College management that should be ashamed for their craven ways. They have cowered and hidden throughout. They have had countless opportunities to present their case but have not taken up even one of them. They have been content to throw their lot in with ASDA and allowed this greedy and shameful conglomerate to go into battle for them. They have found themselves in a fair one to one fight but instead of displaying one gramme of courage they have run off to the school bully seeking his protection. If you hold anybody in contempt here it should be CAMSFC.
It leaves me to ponder exactly what virtues are they believe they are instilling into our children?
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I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.
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Simone writes:
Councillors have not let anybody down. In fact the contrary is true. They've held a view, they've been continuous throughout, they've stood by it and they've defended/promoted it at every opportunity.
Well, yes, bully for them - but just because they have been consistent it doesn't mean they have been right. You can just as easily be consistently wrong as consistently right!
Politicians at both levels - national and local - are constantly on the receiving end of lobbying from pressure groups, for all sorts of things, which are often contradictory. Tighten up drug laws/ liberalise drug laws. Cut public spending/ increase government spending. Leave the EU/ remain in the EU. Convert schools into academies/ leave schools under local authorites. Etc etc etc.
They have to listen politely to all these lobbies, but they should not (indeed, in the examples given above, cannot) give way to all of them. They have to apply their own judgment, informed by their own beliefs and principles (if they have any), and have the courage and vision to take a stand rather than just go with whichever group shouts loudest.
Our councillors could have done that. They could have listened to the noise from MIA and said, 'yes, OK, we are listening to your point of view, and we sympathise with those residents who live near the Hibbert Lane site who would be affected by this development, and we will work closely with them, with the college and Asda, and with the planners, to mitigate the effects of the development on neighbouring properties. But our responsibility is to all the 23,000 residents of Marple who elected us, both present and future, and we believe that investing in the best possible educational facilities for our young people is in the best long-term interests of the community.'
But that would take vision, and courage, qualities which seem to be in sadly short supply among our councillors.
As for the college, I can only agree with you, Simone. I note that Harry writes: I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.
Well there's a surprise! The college has a last opportunity to persuade the council of the importance of education, and do they send along an educationist? Of course not - they send an accountant ::)
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I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.
Why would I want to "find" that ?
What exactly is your point Harry ?
Did he actually make the case for the College ?
What did he actually say?
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Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?
Who is to say what is right ?
All the points that you are making are just complete assertions, you can't substantiate any ONE of them. You don't know any of these Councillors any more than I do. How many meetings have you been to regarding this issue ? You actually sound like MIA at its worst, only from the opposite point of view. If Councillors had wanted to take the blameless, easy way out, then all they had to do was nothing. Then, ASDA'S scheme would have just sailed through and they could have just said that they were "powerless" and that it was a "planning issue" and not a "political one". But they didn't do that, they brought the Trinity Street scheme into the picture. Let's not be mistaken here the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.
You're just mad because they don't agree with you so you're resorting to calling them names.
How do you know that they haven't ..."applied their own judgement, informed by their own beliefs and principles"...?
How do you know that they just don't honestly believe that whatever the benefits a supermarket on that site would bring, the harm outweighs them and that it is just too big a price to pay and just too damaging for Marple ?
How do you know that they don't believe that they are representing ..."all 23.000 residents of Marple who elected them?
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Good post Simone, indeed Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college. I actually suspect that for most people the ASDA application is about convince/cheaper shopping/ stimulating the local economy/destroying the local economy take your pick. You cannot hecktor us in the same way MiA did into holding your view.
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Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?
You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that
the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.
I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention. Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue. However, when you write Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.
...you seem to forget that if the college hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed. So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.
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Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?
You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that
the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.
I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention. Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue. However, when you write Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.
...you seem to forget that if the college hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed. So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.
Do you think asda will appeal .or decide its a dead duck .and hopefully go for the other site .
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Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?
You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that
the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.
I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention. Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue. However, when you write Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.
...you seem to forget that if the college hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed. So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.
Do you think asda will appeal .or decide its a dead duck .and hopefully go for the other site .
It was always going to take an appeal, so Asda are prepared for that. The question is whether Trinity Street changes things sufficiently that they no longer think they can win an appeal. Widely speculating here, but I would say that if think there is a greater than, say, 20%, chance of winning the appeal, they'll have a go, as it was always in the plan to appeal, they'll have budgeted for it, and the rewards if they win will be significant. They won't both if they think Trinity Street makes an appeal an almost certain failure.
I highly doubt they will instead go for Trinity Street, as it's not really viable, and has only been put up as a spoiler.
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Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?
You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that
the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.
I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention. Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue. However, when you write Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.
...you seem to forget that if the college hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed. So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.
Do you think asda will appeal .or decide its a dead duck .and hopefully go for the other site .
It was always going to take an appeal, so Asda are prepared for that. The question is whether Trinity Street changes things sufficiently that they no longer think they can win an appeal. Widely speculating here, but I would say that if think there is a greater than, say, 20%, chance of winning the appeal, they'll have a go, as it was always in the plan to appeal, they'll have budgeted for it, and the rewards if they win will be significant. They won't both if they think Trinity Street makes an appeal an almost certain failure.
I highly doubt they will instead go for Trinity Street, as it's not really viable, and has only been put up as a spoiler.
Good posting . So really marple could end up with no supermarket college lose out on some of there funding
Mia marching down stockport road with there banners saying we won pictures in the paper that's all they really want not interested in the college . Or marple .really .more and more people will go out of marple to supermarket shop . Another few years marple will be dead.
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Marple died years ago and you can't blame a proposed supermarket.
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Why didnt the college and asda promote more community use, such as a new leisure centre on hibbert lane or buxton road. My friend said that one of the councillors mentioned building a new leisure centre last night. They said he looked a bit like elvis.
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Marple died years ago and you can't blame a proposed supermarket.
But a supermarket would have helped it not to die further . Instead of charity shops and some failed
Cafes . And living in the dark ages were some people think something new is not a good thing .unforunatly I possible wont be around in ten years time would like to see marple then .
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Marple died years ago and you can't blame a proposed supermarket.
I think that's unfair Andy, work patterns etc have changed so the town changes too. Nevertheless, it's not a good idea to make a bad decision to allow the supermarket proposal to go ahead on the basis of previous poor decisions.
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Asda will have planned for an appeal from the onset, it will have been part of their strategy. What they won't have planned for from the onset will have been the Trinity Street Scheme.
The Trinity Street Scheme is most certainly a "spoiler" but that doesn't mean its not real. The TSS is most certainly not as attractive to a retailer as Hibbert Lane and to my mind there are some very definite traffic implications for Marple if it goes ahead. However not being as attractive and having traffic issues are not the same as being undeliverable and not "viable". The only people who are saying that TTS is not viable are ASDA and their connections - and they would wouldn't they.
The absolute PR disaster that is ASDA/MACSFC have completely turned this issue into one about Trinity Street whereupon everything else is now secondary to this scheme's success or failure. So their case is now about somebody else, which is always a difficult case to present.
Marple 6 will have been aware of the issues with TSS for a long time now and having seen the way they operate, I find it hard to believe that they won't have turned every stone in an attempt to find a way to overcome them. They will still have some shots in their sling - that's for sure.
I heard from a friend who actually attended the meeting on Wednesday that after the ASDA contingency were badly mauled, particularly by Councillor Kev, (apparently the guy from ASDA was visibly wincing/paling at every word he spoke) he left the meeting almost in tears whereas the finance guy from CAMSFC stayed on and engaged with Councillors. My friend said that they were still "engaging" when she left....my information has been that they have not been not speaking to each other throughout - intriguing eh !
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Asda will have planned for an appeal from the onset, it will have been part of their strategy. What they won't have planned for from the onset will have been the Trinity Street Scheme.
The Trinity Street Scheme is most certainly a "spoiler" but that doesn't mean its not real. The TSS is most certainly not as attractive to a retailer as Hibbert Lane and to my mind there are some very definite traffic implications for Marple if it goes ahead. However not being as attractive and having traffic issues are not the same as being undeliverable and not "viable". The only people who are saying that TTS is not viable are ASDA and their connections - and they would wouldn't they.
The absolute PR disaster that is ASDA/MACSFC have completely turned this issue into one about Trinity Street whereupon everything else is now secondary to this scheme's success or failure. So their case is now about somebody else, which is always a difficult case to present.
Marple 6 will have been aware of the issues with TSS for a long time now and having seen the way they operate, I find it hard to believe that they won't have turned every stone in an attempt to find a way to overcome them. They will still have some shots in their sling - that's for sure.
I heard from a friend who actually attended the meeting on Wednesday that after the ASDA contingency were badly mauled, particularly by Councillor Kev, (apparently the guy from ASDA was visibly wincing/paling at every word he spoke) he left the meeting almost in tears whereas the finance guy from CAMSFC stayed on and engaged with Councillors. My friend said that they were still "engaging" when she left....my information has been that they have not been not speaking to each other throughout - intriguing eh !
If Asda go to appeal when will they announce it what's the normall procedure for these things .time etc
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It could be that the college can't afford to keep their white elephant for the time that an appeal would take. They may now be looking for a builder who would take it off their hands and downsize their aspirations for Buxton Lane. This isn't all about Asda.
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It could be that the college can't afford to keep their white elephant for the time that an appeal would take. They may now be looking for a builder who would take it off their hands and downsize their aspirations for Buxton Lane. This isn't all about Asda.
The problem for the college though is that the money on offer from other potential bidders, eg developers looking to build homes, is said to be in the region of £4 million, as opposed to the £12/13 million said to be on offer from Asda/A N Other Supermarket. They could downsize their plans if they were only going to get 9 or 10 mill, but to only get around a third of the money originally planned for would probably mean they couldn't go ahead in any form.
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No, if you go back through all the consultants' reports which the college commissioned, they do have a plan B which they could carry out for about 4 million plus some borrowing. But 4 million really isn't very much money nowadays, and it is a very poor second choice, amounting simply to a refurbishment and basic extension to the existing Buxton Lane buildings, without anything like the major rebuild and significant enhancement which the current (and probably doomed) scheme offers. It's all rather sad. :'(
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I guess many of the YES group/Asda supporters didn't fancy being heckled by MIA etc. Very unlikely they wouldn't get shouted at etc. Remember the public meeting where the YES speaker was treated appallingly? In addition many are at work, have children etc. whereas many MIA supporters are 9-5 (Marple shop owners for example) or retired. I have been publically in support of Asda before on this issue but couldn't make the cricket club meeting and would not have taken my children along, can only imagine the atmosphere!
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I heard from a friend who actually attended the meeting on Wednesday that after the ASDA contingency were badly mauled, particularly by Councillor Kev, (apparently the guy from ASDA was visibly wincing/paling at every word he spoke) he left the meeting almost in tears whereas the finance guy from CAMSFC stayed on and engaged with Councillors. My friend said that they were still "engaging" when she left....my information has been that they have not been not speaking to each other throughout - intriguing eh !
The above was a quote from Simone, not that I am suggesting she did more than report the facts as she saw them. But really what make anyone think that bulling and intimidating others is the way to proceed. If as Simone says an individual left the meeting in tears that is surely disgraceful and something of which we should all be ashamed.
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I heard from a friend who actually attended the meeting on Wednesday that after the ASDA contingency were badly mauled, particularly by Councillor Kev, (apparently the guy from ASDA was visibly wincing/paling at every word he spoke) he left the meeting almost in tears whereas the finance guy from CAMSFC stayed on and engaged with Councillors. My friend said that they were still "engaging" when she left....my information has been that they have not been not speaking to each other throughout - intriguing eh !
The above was a quote from Simone, not that I am suggesting she did more than report the facts as she saw them. But really what make anyone think that bulling and intimidating others is the way to proceed. If as Simone says an individual left the meeting in tears that is surely disgraceful and something of which we should all be ashamed.
As long as it didn't include personal abuse, I'd suggest Asda had promoted their guy beyond his abilities if he can't handle a bit of questioning.
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Duke its nothing to do with the ASDA guys reactions its the behaviour of person abusing him. Do you really want to be represented by a bully?
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Duke its nothing to do with the ASDA guys reactions its the behaviour of person abusing him. Do you really want to be represented by a bully?
Asda must surely have been aware of the likely atmosphere at the meeting and should have put in a heavy-hitter who could have coped with it. Contentious applications such as this one generate a high level of interaction with opinionated people and Asda have a great deal of experience with such meetings. If they guy couldn't cope then he only has his management team to blame.
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I think the above shows why Asda supporters may be nervous of attending!
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I see Howard so bad behaviour is ok at a public meeting where you might agree with the protesters but not here. errmmm
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Duke its nothing to do with the ASDA guys reactions its the behaviour of person abusing him. Do you really want to be represented by a bully?
You mean like Gordon Brown?
I'd agree, if it's abuse. If it's firm questioning then so be it, if someone can't hande hard questions, they need to look for a different job.
I don't mind any representitive of mine make firm and informed questions. Even MP's are prone to just making popularist stupid points but in that case, i'd expect the answers to bat those away
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I was at the meeting. Cllr Kevin didn't bully anyone, he simply, clearly and concisely stated his position on the application with the reasons why. It was pretty emphatic.
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I see Howard so bad behaviour is ok at a public meeting where you might agree with the protesters but not here. errmmm
There was no bad behaviour, just a set of points firmly made. If you're being sent to appear at a public meeting at which there will be opposition then your employer should equip you with the skills to cope with it or substitute someone who can. If the guy from Asda was upset then he either hadn't prepared properly or wasn't capable of operating in such an environment.
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Well lets hope you take the same attitude when points are firmly made here.
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I think that somebody is getting carried away here and jumping from A to Z and not for the first time - I think that it is you Wheels.
When my friend made the metaphoric allusion to the ASDA guy being "close to tears"etc, I took it as just that and certainly not as being literally applicable. She certainly at no stage described Councillor Kev as being a "bully" or anything that remotely resembled it. In fact that word was never mentioned - it is you and you alone who has brought it to the scene.
I have since had other accounts of the meeting (as I said in my initial post I wasn't there) from people who were there and they all tally. The ASDA guy was asserting that there was much support for his scheme from what he called the "absent silent minority". Councillor Kev sought to contradict this view with his own speech which according to my sources was quite crushing, emphatic and even a rousing oratory.
The point is it may have been delivered in a confident,measured and assertive way but there was no hint of any bullying.
On the subject of the word "bully" it is a much bandied about word these days. If anybody is contradictory, or assertive or even loud they are often accused of being a bully for no other reason than they win the argument or make the other person feel uncomfortable. I appreciate that this is only a blog, but we should have some standards and I really do think that we should give very serious consideration before we describe people (who cannot defend themselves) in such a harmful/frivolous/untruthful way.
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I was actually at the meeting last Wednesday and the only person who was being aggressive during his presentation was the 1st person to speak from ASDA. He hit the table repeatedly with his hand and you could tell from his tone and body language that he "had lost it" after just 30 secs. He has a lot to learn in presentation skills, it said a lot for the kind of person that ASDA employ in senior positions.
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I too was at the meeting and Councillor Dowling certainly did not bully anyone. As was stated he gave quite an oratory, well prepared and delivered from his notes. MIA loved it.
In my opinion the representative from ASDA (the younger one without a jacket on) could have made a better presentation and did seem to adopt an air of arrogance, but I put this down to youthfull exuberance, I think a Woman might have done a better job. But I am sure that ASDA will appeal and perhaps will have the best legal team to represent them.
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Well lets hope you take the same attitude when points are firmly made here.
For someone who wasn't there wheels, you seem to have made up a story, come to your own conclusions and then passing them off as fact.
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If any of you have had any experience of having to deal with work place bullying you would know that bullying is all about perception. Thus if I feel you are bullying me then you are, if I feeling your speaking to me in a racist or homophobic way then you are. It has nothing whatsoever to do with you or mine or the broadcasters view or intentions its about how you make me feel. (Obviously not me personally before some of you get confused)
So if anyone from ASDA felt they were being spoken to in a bullying/intimidatory way then they were. The rules/legislation is quite clear.
Now I did not attend the meeting but some tell me that Dowling went over the line and if thats how he made some of the public feel then he did. End of...
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Oh dear, oh dear. ::)
As it happens I do have had experience of dealing with workplace bullying, and it is not at all as wheels describes it. If someone alleges they have been subjected to bullying, and they wish the employer to take disciplinary action, then a proper procedure has to be conducted, and the alleged bully been given a chance to explain, defend or justify their behaviour. It's known as natural justice. You can't just brand someone a bully simply because someone says so. That would be positively medieval!
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Oh dear, oh dear. ::)
As it happens I do have had experience of dealing with workplace bullying, and it is not at all as wheels describes it. If someone alleges they have been subjected to bullying, and they wish the employer to take disciplinary action, then a proper procedure has to be conducted, and the alleged bully been given a chance to explain, defend or justify their behaviour. It's known as natural justice. You can't just brand someone a bully simply because someone says so. That would be positively medieval!
Wrong as usual Dave
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Wheels,
For a definition of bullying please see this link http://www.worksmart.org.uk/health/what_is_bullying_at_work (http://www.worksmart.org.uk/health/what_is_bullying_at_work) I think you might find that Dave is correct.
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Wheels, of course bullying isn't ..."all about perception". It is a complex issue like most human issues. Some people are quite simply deluded, where is the perception there?
I too have had experience of dealing with allegations of bullying and it is exactly as Dave says inasmuch as before any allegations are un/substantiated a process of natural justice and investigation has to take place. The "victim's" perception of the situation cannot just be accepted as fact. If we accepted your premise we might just as well go back to burning people who we think are witches because it is our "perception" that they are and also because they wear pointed hats and like black cats.
If it's my perception that I'm tall and slim when I'm actually short and fat then which one is true ?
Come on Wheels you're in a hole, stop digging, and oh, apologise to Councillor Kev.