Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: Miss Marple on September 03, 2011, 05:46:10 PM
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Marple in Action are holding a Rally in the Memorial Park Sat 10Th September at 2pm Andrew Stunnel MP and Councillors have confirmed that they will be there to answer our questions. An invitation has also been sent to Christina Cassidy (Principal ) CAMSFC. Andrew Hubert ( finance ) CAMSFC All current Governors of CAMSFC and Paul Lawrence ( Planning ) SMBC. To date we have not had a reply from CAMSFC or SMBC but will keep you posted of developments.
There will be an open microphone for you to ask questions and hopefully we will be able to obtain answers to our questions
So please do your best to attend this is your opportunity to speak directly to the people who will be making these decisions on your behalf Come and to let them know that the majority of people in and around Marple do not want a supermarket in the heart of a residential area.
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Marple in Action are holding a Rally in the Memorial Park Sat 10Th September at 2pm Andrew Stunnel MP and Councillors have confirmed that they will be there to answer our questions. An invitation has also been sent to Christina Cassidy (Principal ) CAMSFC. Andrew Hubert ( finance ) CAMSFC All current Governors of CAMSFC and Paul Lawrence ( Planning ) SMBC. To date we have not had a reply from CAMSFC or SMBC but will keep you posted of developments.
There will be an open microphone for you to ask questions and hopefully we will be able to obtain answers to our questions
So please do your best to attend this is your opportunity to speak directly to the people who will be making these decisions on your behalf Come and to let them know that the majority of people in and around Marple do not want a supermarket in the heart of a residential area.
How 'open' will the microphone be?
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Microwave? Open? When a microwave is open it doesn't work, built in safety feature....
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Microwave? Open? When a microwave is open it doesn't work, built in safety feature....
WHAAAAAT? lol you have just completly confused me haha
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Microwave? Open? When a microwave is open it doesn't work, built in safety feature....
WHAAAAAT? lol you have just completly confused me haha
You said it!
Serious question though. If MIA are funding the rally they may want to keep the 'Yes' lot out of it, and I could understand that argument. Would be good to know if we're welcome or not.
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My sincere apologises, I thought you said "how open would the MICROWAVE be", As if you were refering to "brain washing"
As for weither your welcome or not at the rally i'm not sure, The best bet is to assume that "yes" campaginers arn't, unless someone tells you otherwise :)
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My sincere apologises, I thought you said "how open would the MICROWAVE be", As if you were refering to "brain washing"
As for weither your welcome or not at the rally i'm not sure, The best bet is to assume that "yes" campaginers arn't, unless someone tells you otherwise :)
o if the yes campaign is not welcome then wht say it is an open microphone, why say the community can ask questions and why say this is our chance to speak to the people making decisions on our behalf? We are not accepting this!! Thats plain wrong, if the yes campaign are not welcome, how about those on the fence?? see you there!!!
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My sincere apologises, I thought you said "how open would the MICROWAVE be", As if you were refering to "brain washing"
As for weither your welcome or not at the rally i'm not sure, The best bet is to assume that "yes" campaginers arn't, unless someone tells you otherwise :)
aye aye Cpt,
whatever ye say cap'n ::)
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My sincere apologises, I thought you said "how open would the MICROWAVE be", As if you were refering to "brain washing"
As for weither your welcome or not at the rally i'm not sure, The best bet is to assume that "yes" campaginers arn't, unless someone tells you otherwise :)
aye aye Cpt,
whatever ye say cap'n ::)
hahah ARRRGGGHH MATEYY! hahaha
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My sincere apologises, I thought you said "how open would the MICROWAVE be", As if you were refering to "brain washing"
As for weither your welcome or not at the rally i'm not sure, The best bet is to assume that "yes" campaginers arn't, unless someone tells you otherwise :)
o if the yes campaign is not welcome then wht say it is an open microphone, why say the community can ask questions and why say this is our chance to speak to the people making decisions on our behalf? We are not accepting this!! Thats plain wrong, if the yes campaign are not welcome, how about those on the fence?? see you there!!!
Tasha people from the Yes , NO , and sat on the fence should all be welcome !!
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MM said I was welcome to come along.
Daniel you say you are not affiliated to MIA but then go on to speak on their behalf. We don't want to cause trouble, I for one am a quiet private person, but do feel the people who would like a supermarket should be able to ask questions. That is what a open Mic is for.
The 'yes' group are not out to cause trouble, there is always going to be someone who says this and says that on both sides but they are just a small amount of people. We are just normal people from all walks of life who have a view.
This whole conversation at the moment has turned into a argument from every corner...who has a spelling mistake, who lives in a council house etc etc..... Its getting very tiring.
In life not everyone agrees, wouldn't it be a boring world if we all followed along the same lines... same hair, same clothes etc etc... do you get my point?
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I was simply saying What I thought was best, As i didn't know if the mic was open or not! I didn't state that you wern't allowed to attend the ralley was FACT either. At no point did I specifically state That I was speaking on MIA's behalf.
I haven't, at any point, segregated people because they live in a council house, or because they have trouble spelling, And I never will.
Also, please stop taking the mikky out of my forum name, I don't make fun of yours, so its manners to not make fun of mine.
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Sorry Daniel I wasn't saying YOU are making those comments... it was a generalisation of what is happening at the moment on the whole site on all topics. If you read MM first post about the rally u will see she says its open mic, HWL1973 was just asking a simple question of how open it would be. In another post on a different topic MM said I was welcome and also mum of 2. It is sometimes helpful to read a whole topic before you jump in and make comments without reading it all first.
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Sorry Daniel, i just made a connection between 'Captain' and the fact you felt the need to answer a genuine question with a ridiculous answer on behalf of all those that have arranged the rally. I wasn't even aware that i was taking the 'mikky' but if my comments caused any offence then i am sorry.
:-X
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Sorry Daniel, i just made a connection between 'Captain' and the fact you felt the need to answer a genuine question with a ridiculous answer on behalf of all those that have arranged the rally. I wasn't even aware that i was taking the 'mikky' but if my comments caused any offence then i am sorry.
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ditto,and to be honest i was just commenting on sareenas post as the pirate thing is an on going thing between us and our children. I only realised your name once you said it. I am sorry too if offence was caused, it was not meant to.
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Everyone is welcome at the Rally it is our community and each and everyone of us is part of that ? You do not need an invitation because we all need to know/ hear how this will effect our lives our children's lives and what impact it will have on us all. It doesn't matter if you own a property, live in social housing or rent a house all that is not relevant, what does matter is that we stop trying to turn this into a class war and just try to support one another in finding out the truth. Because if we lose focus on what is happening we will never get to know the truth and the TRUTH is what we all need to know. So whilst we are all arguing on how cheaper a tin of beans maybe in ASDA which may save us a few pennies, we maybe allowing a private company to walk away with millions of our money from land that was a gift, to you me and our children I know what I will be focusing on ;)
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One of the problems with some of the information put out by MIA and its supporters is the misleading language used. It really isn't helpful or accurate to describe a sixth form college as a 'private company' - this is a classic example of MIA 'spin'. ::).
Sixth form colleges are independent charitable bodies. They are not for profit. They are classified as 'public sector', not 'private sector'. Their governors are unpaid, and are in effect the trustees of the charity. The education they provide for young people aged 16 - 18 is free of charge. Although they are not now controlled by local authorities (that ended 18 years ago), they work very closely with local schools and with local authorities. Local authorities also fund them, and are responsible for managing their performance. They are best described as public bodies; they are not, in any meaningful sense of the words, 'private companies'.
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One of the problems with some of the information put out by MIA and its supporters is the misleading language used. It really isn't helpful or accurate to describe a sixth form college as a 'private company' - this is a classic example of MIA 'spin'. ::).
Dave's right, they operate like a public sector body, employees get generous salaries, pensions, ridiculously short working hours, long holidays and pretty much unsackable due to weak management who are unwilling to stand up to union power. There is little incentive for managment to address this because the taxpayer pays up dutifully.
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The issue about the gifted land being sold off is surely a red herring too, if MIA are indeed happy for it to be sold for housing?
And we're not talking about a few pennies being saved on a tin of beans as a reason for being in favour of a supermarket, we are talking about potential savings of £100s or even £1000s of pounds (when taking into account transport costs) for Marple's hard pushed residents.
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I am speaking as Miss Marple not MIA and dress it up whatever way you like that land was a gift for the people of MARPLE for education and if CAMSFC for whatever reason no longer want it let it be used for some other education purpose . HWL as I have said before we have documentation proving the land was gifted to the people of MARPLE for education why oh why would we lie. Can I just ask what research has the YES team done because this is basic stuff that you need to be aware of to form an informed opinion. Enough said see you at the rally on Sat and we can have a litte chat :-\
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The issue about the gifted land being sold off is surely a red herring too, if MIA are indeed happy for it to be sold for housing?
And we're not talking about a few pennies being saved on a tin of beans as a reason for being in favour of a supermarket, we are talking about potential savings of £100s or even £1000s of pounds (when taking into account transport costs) for Marple's hard pushed residents.
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I am speaking as Miss Marple not MIA and dress it up whatever way you like that land was a gift for the people of MARPLE for education and if CAMSFC for whatever reason no longer want it let it be used for some other education purpose . HWL as I have said before we have documentation proving the land was gifted to the people of MARPLE for education why oh why would we lie. Can I just ask what research has the YES team done because this is basic stuff that you need to be aware of to form an informed opinion. Enough said see you at the rally on Sat and we can have a litte chat :-\
I'm not doubting the documentation. One's own interpretation of how relevant or important this is is a different question.
I quote MIA here:
We feel that there must be better uses of the land that would benefit the whole community of Marple, such as affordable housing for young families or retired people, a community centre and/or health centre, more facilities for the youth of Marple.
So MIA do not mind the land being sold for other purposes, despite it being gifted as an educational site. It seems odd that everyone on these forums against a supermarket there is also keen to distance themselves from MIA. Why is this? Are there any actual MIA representatives on here?
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I started MIA and now it is a recognised community group so ......... I can not speak on behalf of MIA because we are a group now of many people from all walks of life . So I use Miss MARPLE to say what I want to say. I have never distanced myself from MIA I am VERY proud, to just how far this has come from its humble beginnings around my kitchen table ( I hope having a kitchen table doesnt make me posh lol :D ) I will be at the Rally and like I have said we will have a chance to speak face to face instead of on the forum So let's not continue to have these stupid exchanges as it makes us all look a little lacking ;) .
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I started MIA and now it is a recognised community group so ......... I can not speak on behalf of MIA because we are a group now of many people from all walks of life . So I use Miss MARPLE to say what I want to say. I have never distanced myself from MIA I am VERY proud, to just how far this has come from its humble beginnings around my kitchen table ( I hope having a kitchen table doesnt make me posh lol :D ) I will be at the Rally and like I have said we will have a chance to speak face to face instead of on the forum So let's not continue to have these stupid exchanges as it makes us all look a little lacking ;) .
Why are they stupid exchanges? I find them very informative and stimulating. There is also the benefit of having everything written down which is another positive. I am more than happy to continue exchanging views on here :) . If you have misinterpreted my tone then I can only apologise.
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The issue about the gifted land being sold off is surely a red herring too, if MIA are indeed happy for it to be sold for housing?
So MIA do not mind the land being sold for other purposes, despite it being gifted as an educational site.
This is a really good point.
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How many people are going to save thousands of pounds a year by having a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane ?
People who walk & do all their weekly shopping at the Co-op would make a big saving I agree.
Also how many dedicate Tesco Club Card or Sainsbury’s Nectar Card Holders would suddenly switch their
weekly shop to Asda ?
I personally would happily forego the £2 a week saving, rather than have the increased traffic and to
stop the detrimental effect it would have on the centre of Marple.
But I suppose it all depends what your priorities are in Life !!!!
I feel that those that would save money are the ones who need the money the most ie.low income. Perhaps lone parents in particular. I shop at one of the 'big 4' online (not Asda) but I would change to Asda if it was local, I only use the one I do as it's online delivery is better in my experience. I also would love to be able to buy Asda clothes locally. I do use local shops alot too and that wouldn't change. We would probably use the Co-op less but that is about it. I know it is more ethical but we do plenty of other ethical things.
I would be interested in whether the traffic would be hugely increased or if the reduced people going out of marple and large number of Tesco/asda delivery vans always about would make it the same as it is now.
I also worry about this being a 'class war' as someone mentioned on another post. It's abit uncomfortable in many ways reading some posts and wondering what was deleted! I would be probably more on the against side (I'm not actually on either 'side' as such) if they were more sympathetic to those on a low income such as they realise it would be great for young families etc and not just get the bus, move out of Marple etc. I myself am on the fence because although it is alright for me, having the choice to do shopping elsewhere, I can still empaphise with those who have less choice and on low income, i feel alot of people cannot or will not do that.
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Thank you to all who have been delivering leaflets Let's hope the weather is nice, fingers crossed :-\
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In reply to Dave's post
1 CAMSFC is NOT a charitable body
2 There are only 2 elected governors (1 student 1 parent governor) the rest are all appointed by the other governors.
3 They don't publish minutes on a timely basis, the latest ones are 6 months old.
4 They seem to be accountable to no one apart from the Secretary of State for Education.
That doesn't seem to be how a "Public Body" should behave.
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In reply to Dave's post
1 CAMSFC is NOT a charitable body
Yes it is. All sixth form colleges are exempt charities, as laid down by the Further and Higher Education Act (1992) That means they are automatically charities, without the need to register with the Charity Commission. So are the various new kinds of non-local authority state school - academies, free schools etc.
2 There are only 2 elected governors (1 student 1 parent governor) the rest are all appointed by the other governors.
Members of quangos and other such public bodies are not normally elected. They are appointed, either by the government or one of its agencies, or (in the case of college corporations) by the corporation itself.
3 They don't publish minutes on a timely basis, the latest ones are 6 months old.
Tut tut :o. However, some kind of time lag is always necessary, as the minutes cannot be released until they have been formally approved at the next meeting - so you are always one meeting behind. But six months does seem excessive.
4 They seem to be accountable to no one apart from the Secretary of State for Education.
Indeed.
That doesn't seem to be how a "Public Body" should behave.
Shocking isn't it, but these are the times we live in.....
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Inflammatory post overwritten. Admin.
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Inflammatory post overwritten. Admin.
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Give over Dave ! Private Public just a play on words , all I know was it was ours now it's not and it's not even for our childrens education. I am sure you just come on here to wind me up lol. I can tell you have been a governor you cheeky thing :-*
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I cannot tell a lie - I have been a college governor, though not at this college. I have no connection with camsfc, apart from two of my kids having been students there a few years ago.
However, rest assured Miss M that I'm not at all interested in winding you or anyone else up. :D The reason I post on here is that this debate seems to be dominated by argument about the pros and cons of having a big supermarket on Hibbert Lane. Fair enough, and that discussion will no doubt continue. Personally I don't have a very strong view either way on that, although I might if I lived close to the site. ;)
What I am trying to do is tackle this issue from a slightly different angle, and to put the case that what the college is doing is entirely for the long-term benefit of our childrens' and grandchildren's education. At the same time, I'm also attempting to correct the repeated inaccuracies which keep creeping in - such as descriptions of the college as a 'private company', assertions that it is in financial difficulties (it isn't, as anyone can see from documents posted on its website), and suggestions that it might close both Marple campuses and move away altogether (so unlikely that it can safely be ruled out).
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With respect Dave, we realise the college may have got it's sums wrong & need to realise it's assets. It also occurs to me that it's. A short term solution that will end up costing more. As a labour man you'll recognise that sort of problem ;-)
It's also not my problem, I don't want the quality of life affected just because of poor college mgt
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it's. A short term solution that will end up costing more.
It's exactly the opposite of that. It's a long-term plan. This is because the upfront capital costs of extending and modernising Buxton Lane will take all of the £12 million realised by the sale of Hibbert Lane, and no doubt the college will have to borrow more. Offset against that, the college will reduce its sites from three to two. That should generate a big recurrent saving in annual running costs stretching for years into the future. Colleges typically spend about 12.5% of turnover on premises costs. The turnover of camsfc is about £15.5 million, so that suggests they could be spending just under £2 million a year on premises costs - probably more because most of their buildings are former schools, which were not well built and are relatively costly to heat and maintain. So if they close a campus they should save roughly £650,000 (one third of £2 million) every year. That's useful money which can be ploughed back in to teaching our kids!
I think it's you that's got yer sums wrong, Duke ;)
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Only two days to go to the rally in the park. Please inform as many people as you can as this is our chance to ask questions. The Rally on Sat is only the third time we have come together as a group but more high profile things are being planned :o. All MIA ask is for your continued support , its going to be a long journey and to once again thank you all for supporting your community. SEE YOU ALL SAT 2pm IN THE MEMORIAL PARK
LETS HOPE THE SUN SHINES ;) and that I win the Euro Millions on Friday and purchase the college Sat ;D Then it can be a PARTY IN THE PARK !!! ALL DRINKS ON ME :-*
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Only two days to go to the rally in the park. Please inform as many people as you can as this is our chance to ask questions. The Rally on Sat is only the third time we have come together as a group but more high profile things are being planned :o. All MIA ask is for your continued support , its going to be a long journey and to once again thank you all for supporting your community. SEE YOU ALL SAT 2pm IN THE MEMORIAL PARK
LETS HOPE THE SUN SHINES ;) and that I win the Euro Millions on Friday and purchase the college Sat ;D Then it can be a PARTY IN THE PARK !!! ALL DRINKS ON ME :-*
Seeeing as we are not getting a decent response from anyone on here....is EVERYONE welcome? including the YES campaigners....seeing as you say its an open microphone....we wondered how open it would be?
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Read post 15. It says everyone is WELCOME!
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I hope to be there. Will be wearing Green for Yes. Can all the No campaigners wear red then we all know who is who? ;)
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I hope to be there. Will be wearing Green for Yes. Can all the No campaigners wear red then we all know who is who? ;)
How about No campaigners were "TescNO" shirts insted?
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I hope to be there. Will be wearing Green for Yes. Can all the No campaigners wear red then we all know who is who? ;)
Was that one of those 'yes' T-shirts Manchester council printed for their congestion charge and gave out to Labour activists whom they shipped in from all over the country to give the impression their was support fr their scheme? Shame!
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I hope to be there. Will be wearing Green for Yes. Can all the No campaigners wear red then we all know who is who? ;)
Was that one of those 'yes' T-shirts Manchester council printed for their congestion charge and gave out to Labour activists whom they shipped in from all over the country to give the impression their was support fr their scheme? Shame!
We don't have 'Yes' T shirts yet Dukey and I would not be happy at all being aligned with that lot ;)
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I hope to be there. Will be wearing Green for Yes. Can all the No campaigners wear red then we all know who is who? ;)
How about No campaigners were "TescNO" shirts insted?
Yes, those mysterious T shirts. With the strapline 'No Supermarket on Hibbert Lane' underneath the 'TescNo' logo. Where did they come from???
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Only two days to go to the rally in the park. Please inform as many people as you can as this is our chance to ask questions. The Rally on Sat is only the third time we have come together as a group but more high profile things are being planned :o. All MIA ask is for your continued support , its going to be a long journey and to once again thank you all for supporting your community. SEE YOU ALL SAT 2pm IN THE MEMORIAL PARK
LETS HOPE THE SUN SHINES ;) and that I win the Euro Millions on Friday and purchase the college Sat ;D Then it can be a PARTY IN THE PARK !!! ALL DRINKS ON ME :-*
Seeeing as we are not getting a decent response from anyone on here....is EVERYONE welcome? including the YES campaigners....seeing as you say its an open microphone....we wondered how open it would be?
Maybe its me who just thinks this, but I think that if you or any others in the yes campaign want to step up and speak on behalf of the people who DO want a supermarket on Hibbert lane, then I think you should organise your own rally on behalf of your own group.
I would say no to it being an open mic to the yes group, you have strong feelings, but , the tireless work done by M.I.A, why should you have a say at an event that has taken many hours of organisation, leaflet dropping, meetings etc etc by them , why should they do all the hard work ( hours of hard work ) , and you just turn up and have your say ?
You say many people are for the supermarket, and if you are correct, you should have no problem organising such an event yourselves.
Just my opinion, and No, Im not involved with M.I.A, and have no plans to be in the future ... just an opinion .
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I agree with you Pink panther,
Everyone has the right to a view, However, I feel that if a ralley has been organised by MIA, for the purpose of getting MIA's name out there then MIA should have the mic, and no-one else. After all, Its almost like your gate-crashing the ralley! Now, I wouldn't mind the "yes" campaigners being in attendance, provided they sat down and behaved themselves (which the majority of them do), But I do object to them being given a "open mic" at a event that's main purpose is to educate those in MIA about the college's plans, and to enable those in MIA to ask there questions to various persons.
However, I don't call the shots, so how MIA handle there Ralleys is up to them, I have no say what-so-ever.
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OK, I can see the points of view on those last two posts. And the 'Yes' campaign did ask if they would be welcomed and were told yes. We did appreciate that it was not our rally.
I hope it was useful that everyone heard at least a couple of questions from us, as most people are not on these forums or on facebook etc. At very least it will have been the first time for many that they've heard an alternative point of view, and will have allowed MIA to go away and think about whether they can be more inclusive. For what it's worth I appreciated very much that we weren't shouted down, and overall the tone of the event was very civil and friendly.
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Shame that this issue has divided the community into "yes" and "no" camps when, in truth, we are ALL residents of Marple and should be working together to find a solution.
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Shame that this issue has divided the community into "yes" and "no" camps when, in truth, we are ALL residents of Marple and should be working together to find a solution.
Actually we understand each other a lot better after today, and are a little closer together (although obviously not in absolute agreement) so it was a positive experience.
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Only two days to go to the rally in the park. Please inform as many people as you can as this is our chance to ask questions. The Rally on Sat is only the third time we have come together as a group but more high profile things are being planned :o. All MIA ask is for your continued support , its going to be a long journey and to once again thank you all for supporting your community. SEE YOU ALL SAT 2pm IN THE MEMORIAL PARK
LETS HOPE THE SUN SHINES ;) and that I win the Euro Millions on Friday and purchase the college Sat ;D Then it can be a PARTY IN THE PARK !!! ALL DRINKS ON ME :-*
Seeeing as we are not getting a decent response from anyone on here....is EVERYONE welcome? including the YES campaigners....seeing as you say its an open microphone....we wondered how open it would be?
Maybe its me who just thinks this, but I think that if you or any others in the yes campaign want to step up and speak on behalf of the people who DO want a supermarket on Hibbert lane, then I think you should organise your own rally on behalf of your own group.
I would say no to it being an open mic to the yes group, you have strong feelings, but , the tireless work done by M.I.A, why should you have a say at an event that has taken many hours of organisation, leaflet dropping, meetings etc etc by them , why should they do all the hard work ( hours of hard work ) , and you just turn up and have your say ?
You say many people are for the supermarket, and if you are correct, you should have no problem organising such an event yourselves.
Just my opinion, and No, Im not involved with M.I.A, and have no plans to be in the future ... just an opinion .
I know what you are saying PP regarding The Yes people speaking at the rally.But MIA are Damned if they do and Damned if they don't include everyone.
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It's all little one sided.
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It's all little one sided.
Yes it is at the moment but there is nothing to stop the" Yes " people doing the same as MIA.It takes a lot of dedication to the cause.It has been said that the NO group have too much time on their hands.When the truth is they find the time,after work ,family commitments and all manner of things that life throws at them.If I was a Yes supporter I would have got something up and running by now.You cannot sit back and hope someone else will fight for you! ::) You cannot help people who won't help their selves :P
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Blog entry from Marple Leaf on yesterday's rally : Desperately want to say YES to something in Marple (http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/09/desperately-want-to-say-yes-to.html)
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A big thank you to all who attended the Rally yesterday I know its not everyones cup of tea listening to politicians and political parties but to be fair they pledged their support and Marple will remember that ? There is a fantastic blog on The Marple Leaf Web Page that SGK has put a link to, which really sums it all up, far better than I could ever do.
Every time I attend a MIA gathering and see how well we are supported by people of all ages and the determination shown by the community to see this through to the end is what gives me and MIA the strength to carry on.
I have always maintained if this is right what the college is doing it must be wrong and what the Principal says about having to sell for Best Value is a play on words. I have to undertake Best Value working everyday in my employment and it certainly doesn't mean getting the most for your money, it means getting the best possible outcome using a holistic approach that includes the wider picture, in this case the community to achieve a workable outcome. I feel Ms Cassidy and the corporation have mis interpreted 'Best Value ' to their own gain regardless of the wider picture. So CAMSFC need to re look at what 'Best Value ' actually means and listen to the YPLA who have a completely different view of best value and should be challenging Ms Cassidy on her continual play on words.
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what the Principal says about having to sell for Best Value is a play on words. I have to undertake Best Value working everyday in my employment and it certainly doesn't mean getting the most for your money, it means getting the best possible outcome using a holistic approach that includes the wider picture, in this case the community to achieve a workable outcome. I feel Ms Cassidy and the corporation have mis interpreted 'Best Value ' to their own gain regardless of the wider picture.
This question is at the heart of the issue. I wasn't at yesterday's rally, so I don't know what was said about 'best value'. However, as Miss M rightly says, it's vital that this issue is clarified.
The legal position of colleges stems from Article 3c of the Articles of Government, which states: 'the Corporation [i.e. the governors] shall be responsible for the effective and efficient use of resources, the solvency of the institution and the Corporation and safeguarding their assets'.
The last three words there are the key ones: they are generally taken to mean that if assets are disposed of, it must be at the maximum available valuation. It's important to distinguish between this legal obligation on colleges, which stems from their own constitutions, and the Best Value regimes which local authorities have to work with - the two issues are very different.
But this is legal territory, and I am not a lawyer. The college will undoubtedly have taken legal advice before proceeding in the way they are, and I think it would be sensible for MIA to do the same - it could save an awful lot of time, argument and general confusion! But don't go to a local high street lawyer - you need one of the big firms that specialise in education.
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Just for the record
Yesterday the YES group were invited to say a few words but for whatever reason they decided not to I am only putting the record straight having read the YES face book page. If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected but they were invited to do so by David Hoyle. So I am really at a loss and a little miffed off that we are being discredited once again ! :-\
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Just for the record
Yesterday the YES group were invited to say a few words but for whatever reason they decided not to I am only putting the record straight having read the YES face book page. If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected but they were invited to do so by David Hoyle. So I am really at a loss and a little miffed off that we are being discredited once again ! :-\
Not quite right there MM, we was only given the chance to ask 2 questions after they said to everyone it had ended. 1 member spoke to David before the start of the rally and asked if he could speak, and was told No!
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Not quite right there MM, we was only given the chance to ask 2 questions after they said to everyone it had ended. 1 member spoke to David before the start of the rally and asked if he could speak, and was told No!
That's not quite right either... everybody was welcome to speak but only one person from the "Yes" campaign chose to step forward. He had 2 questions, both of which were dealt with. There had been plenty of opportunity for other people to come forward so it's wrong to say you were only given the chance to ask 2 questions. In reality, you only had 2 questions answered because only 2 questions were asked! It's not really fair to suggest that the "Yes" campaign were not given an opportunity to speak. It's important for people that weren't there to get a true picture of what really happened.
As for someone else speaking to David beforehand and being told they were not allowed to speak, I would question what that person actually asked. If he asked if he could make a speech, then it's not surprising he was turned down as it was a MIA rally. The question and answer session was always open for all so he would not have been told no. I'd check again to see what he actually asked (and I'll check with David what he actually told him).
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Not quite right there MM, we was only given the chance to ask 2 questions after they said to everyone it had ended. 1 member spoke to David before the start of the rally and asked if he could speak, and was told No!
That's not quite right either... everybody was welcome to speak but only one person from the "Yes" campaign chose to step forward. He had 2 questions, both of which were dealt with. There had been plenty of opportunity for other people to come forward so it's wrong to say you were only given the chance to ask 2 questions. In reality, you only had 2 questions answered because only 2 questions were asked! It's not really fair to suggest that the "Yes" campaign were not given an opportunity to speak. It's important for people that weren't there to get a true picture of what really happened.
As for someone else speaking to David beforehand and being told they were not allowed to speak, I would question what that person actually asked. If he asked if he could make a speech, then it's not surprising he was turned down as it was a MIA rally. The question and answer session was always open for all so he would not have been told no. I'd check again to see what he actually asked (and I'll check with David what he actually told him).
To my understanding after just speaking to the person who asked David he said....
when he asked David he told him it was the MIA rally. so he said yes i understand and respected that. And in the middle of the rally the MC said we was there and would be given a chance to speak. As this didn't happen he asked the MC at the end why he wasn't given a chance and he said they had run out of time and wanted to finish because the rain was coming and they wanted to get packed away.
we respected that it was a MIA rally, and did ask before hand and wasn't rude to anyone. we didn't cause a scene that we wasn't able to speak. We all actually stayed behind and spoke to some members of MIA and we all found we had common ground almost. so we are not the big bad wolf.
MM you are not being discredited again. you are playing with our words.
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Hi All,
I do think people are looking for arguments here where there aren't any. It would be shame as we had a constructive face to face discussion on Saturday and this should not take a backwards step once we're all back on our keyboards :(
For what it's worth, it was an MIA rally and I for one felt rather nervous in attending it - especially when going up to ask a couple of questions on behalf of the 'Yes' lot. However, I was not shouted down or booed and David Hoyle responded in a polite fashion. At very least it allowed people there to hear a different point of view.
Another member of the 'Yes' group did have a pre-prepared speech but it was clearly not on the agenda for the rally. There was a little confusion as to whether it would be fitted in or not (due to some stormy clouds overhead and the politicians in attendance inevitably going on a bit). If I was to put myself in MIA's shoes then I for one would not be too happy having my rally ended by someone from the other group getting the last word, but overall it was nothing more than a mix up when they said the speech would be allowed. I don't think there was any malicious intent in any of this at all. It certainly should not be used for points scoring.
Oh, and we were also told that the Area Committe meeting in October will be the open forum for everyone (Yes/No/In between) to have a say - and this will be a lot more appropriate than the MIA rally.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I have some more thoughts on Saturday which I'll try and share when I get some more time.
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Thanks for sharing your positive take on the day HWL1973. I agree that the discussion after the rally was very constructive and, as you said previously, we all understand one another better, so that's definitely a step in the right direction ;D
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So when SMBC say no. Tesco appeals against the ruling who pay for the cost of the appeal.
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So when SMBC say no. Tesco appeals against the ruling who pay for the cost of the appeal.
It depends. This is the long answer: http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/circularcostsawards.pdf
However, the short answer, AFAIK, is that each side in the appeal process normally meets their own costs. However, the side that 'wins' the appeal can apply to have their costs covered by the 'losing' side, and in a minority of cases these costs are awarded.
So in this case, whoever 'wins', SMBC (i.e. we council tax payers) will have to foot the bill for their own costs. I think if the council were to lose, it would be unlikely that they would have to pay the supermarket's costs as well, as in rejecting the initial planning application they had clearly been acting properly and within their own planning policy.
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MIA V. CAMSFC: Battle of the Titans (and acronyms). But we get hurt both ways. Either we get a supermarket so many of us don't want or the college where our children are educated doesn't get the money it genuinely needs.
Is there 'a third way?' Can we not harness our combined powers to work toward a different solution? In the letter from Mrs Cassidy read by Mr Stunnell at the rally, was there mention of The Skills and Development Agency 'letting down' the college is terms of the required funding? (Apologies if this were not the case. It would be really useful if a copy of that letter could be posted on this site as I haven't seen much in writing that expresses the college's stance.) I know nothing of the Skills and Development Agency but could we not join forces with the College to overturn whatever decision the Agency made? We could end up with a fabulous college and no giant supermarket. With the political spotlight currently on localism; the Mary Portas report due next month and of course The Big Society, the timing could be spot on. MIACAMSFC UTD?
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So far, I've been quiet on the subject of new supermarket on Hibbert Lane. I've given it quite a bit of thought and I have decided I am in favour of an ALDI store (like the one in Romiley) or a Tesco / Sainsburys etc. "Local". I do not want a large supermarket on the site. I believe a smaller store will provide competition to the Co-op and will not adversely affect other local businesses. I think this compromise might provide enough money for the college and not significantly impact the residents of Hibbert Lane or swamp Marple with additional traffic. Additional local jobs will also be created.
Ideally, I'd prefer direct competition in the town centre e.g. the former Hanbury's site, but the Co-op hold the purse strings on that building and it doesn't provide a solution for the college.
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I do not want a large supermarket on the site. I believe a smaller store will provide competition to the Co-op and will not adversely affect other local businesses. I think this compromise might provide enough money for the college
I wish you were right, marveld, but I fear that's a pipe dream. A supermarket can be around 3,000 square metres, whilst a Tesco Metro or Sainsbury's Local is classed as a convenience store - i.e. up to 300 sq metres, AFAIK. So if a Tesco Metro is around 10% of the size of a full Tesco supermarket, we can reasonably assume that it would also have about 10% of the land value. :(
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Skills and development agency you say?
Its No wounder the college couldn't get funding from the college. the S&DA website states the following (theres a condsensed version at the bottom of the post):
S&DA (The Skills and Development Agency) was founded in 2001 as a not for profit company limited by guarantee (Company Registration no: 5258081) and was formerly known as North West London Online. S&DA is a provider of skills, employment and community development opportunities for adults, employers and young people. We are a staff cooperative with an elected board and as such our organisation’s ethos is based on fairness, inclusion, equality and community cohesion.
We initially delivered ICT training (computer training) in Brent as part of the UK Online framework, but developed to deliver European Social Fund initiatives, training young people, ex-offenders (though OLAS) and unemployed people in West London.
Since 2008, we have grown, rebranded and have extended our delivery portfolio. We now offer a wide range of vocational and non-vocational training courses, as well as Apprenticeship provision and employability support in Brent, across London, the South East and East of England.
We receive ESF and Skills Funding Agency Employer Responsive Train to Gain funding, UK Online and LDA funding, amid other sources.
We have an excellent track record in delivering projects from both a project management perspective and in terms of helping our learners to achieve accredited and non-accredited learning results.
We are committed to high quality provision. We work to the Matrix and ISO 9001 standard and our training is accredited by OCR, City & Guilds, EdExcel, NEFCE, ILM and BCS."
But i'll condense the above into "We don't fund colleges" So its No wounder they turned the colleges request down! I swear the college take us for village idiots.
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I think chaffinch has inadvertently caused some confusion. S/he probably meant this lot: http://skillsfundingagency.bis.gov.uk/ That said, when the college was 'let down' (if that's what it was) the SFA didn't exist - in those days it was this lot: http://www.lsc.gov.uk/. And then coming soon (next year) there will be the YPLA (this lot: http://www.ypla.gov.uk/).
Confused? You're entitled to be. And at the rate new quangos come and go, these won't be around for long either. ::)
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Thanks Dave. 'Skills Funding Agency' probably is what Mr Stunnell read out then. Applogies for confusion.
This is why I really would like to see the letter. Did anyone record the speeches? Seeing the College's justification set out and then deconstructing it to try and find some area on which we can work together, seems useful to me. As I said if we just go head-to-head I feel we lose out whoever 'wins': it's a community-bashing supermarket or a sub-standard college and I don't want either.
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So far, I've been quiet on the subject of new supermarket on Hibbert Lane. I've given it quite a bit of thought and I have decided I am in favour of an ALDI store (like the one in Romiley) Ideally, I'd prefer direct competition in the town centre e.g. the former Hanbury's site, but the Co-op hold the purse strings on that building and it doesn't provide a solution for the college.
I have similar views at the moment.