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Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: tina on August 30, 2011, 01:28:42 PM

Title: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: tina on August 30, 2011, 01:28:42 PM
I have started this new thread re camsfc/rose hill  to put a few points across about the new build what is happening at Rose Hill and hopefully at Buxton Lane.
There is method to my madness so please bear with me.

When Peacefield/Rose Hill and the Dale merged into 1 school 2 years ago there was uproar.
But 2 years on... the new building is coming on nicely and is being built as 2 floors. The children's education has not really been disrupted and have all coped with it well... my son has just left and had great sats results, his class room was demolished earlier this year and was being taught in the mobile classrooms. If a 11yr old can cope with change then I'm sure the 16+ can cope just as well. Rose Hill is going to be modern and will last for a very long time. will not be a drain on school budgets etc.... Now at the moment there is talk that IF the Hibbert Lane site is sold the money will go towards rebuilding the Buxton Lane site. This can only be a good thing I'm sure? The college will therefore go on for many more years teaching our future generations. If it doesn't go ahead then both sites will keep draining the colleges budget and therefore no money left to keep the building up to date and will in the end close. I would prefer the college get the highest bid for it and have a modern college, rather than it crumble away.
Also the building at present on Buxton Lane is 5 floors but a MIA member has stated a new building would be intrusive to the residents and that parking would become a problem. The site is still the same as when I went to high school. the parking spaces was intended for staff. I'm sure once a new college is built a car park would be in place to accommodate the students (the tennis courts what are a eyesore at present could also be used?)

I know people don't like change its well documented on this very site. But we have to move with the times and think of our future generations. I would like my sons to be able to go to a local college what is modern and up to date and not my old crumbling down high school. I would like their children in time to also benefit from it too!

Now can we keep this topic on topic and put your views across as adults without shouting or insulting anyone and no mention of a supermarket as this is not about that its about what would be good for the college and the community.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Smithy166 on August 30, 2011, 01:35:05 PM
Great, and well thought out post.
However, The primary school rebuild was paid for almost entirely by a govt grant, as it was set to become one of the new flagship "superschools". However, the college doesn't have the luxury of this grant, as its not there anymore, which means that, Even with the 12mill from the sale of the HBT site they are still going to have to pull something out the bag in order to fineance the project.
As a student however, I must agree that It would be nice to have new facilites, as although the HBT lane site is currently doing its job the building is starting to show its age, and the interior isn't exactly the most friendly of places to navigate (especially if theres a fire/fire drill)
No-one is shouting or insulting anyone (atleast i'm not)
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: tina on August 30, 2011, 01:38:13 PM
Thank you Daniel your points are noted. )The reference to shouting/insults is a way of saying please leave a comment but dont shout down to people or insult as its happening too much on this site as late)
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Rachael on August 30, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
The MIA clearly state that they are not against a new supermarket in Marple, just about where it is  .

You have spent many a time in my back garden , can you imagine the look out if a new supermarket was built there, I lie in bed in the morning listening to the sheep and the cows etc  ( sad I know lol ) but it would be horrible to have something like a supermarket instead  .

I want a new supermarket, I hate the CO OP , but I wouldnt want to look at one out of my back window, and thats exactly what is going to happen to other residents if this goes ahead .

I agree about the development at Rose Hill School , and am glad to say that " My little darling " has not been effected by the work going on their either.

Aquinas college  cost 42 million pounds ,  I honestly dont think 13 million pounds will go a very long way to bringing the  Marple college up to scratch , it sounds alot, but if you look at Aquinas, you can clearly see it isnt going to go a long way . ... but thats just my own thoughts, Im not a builder

I think I would be more at ease if If peoople knew exactly where the money is going to be spent on the redevelopment of the college , what exactly the college is going to do with the money ?  will it be enough to revamp it, and if its not, what happens then ?  The supermarket still  get the land, and the children of Marple  going up to college potentially get nothing ?  ( Im speculating )

I know you are going to say it    .... Ive changed my tune a bit :)

I agree, we need to move with the times,  not many families have the luxury of being " stay at home mums " families are having to work more hours, I know in my house that has applied and I now have a second job , my husband is not on a bad income, but the cost of living is horrendous and wage increases do not reflect the soaring cost of living , and I find myself travelling to get the same goods at the cheapest price and that means going out of the area to do it  ..... sadly .

So yes to a new supermarket, but no to it being on Hibbert lane , I would change my poll vote, but I dont think I can



Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: tina on August 30, 2011, 02:27:28 PM
The MIA clearly state that they are not against a new supermarket in Marple, just about where it is  .

You have spent many a time in my back garden , can you imagine the look out if a new supermarket was built there, I lie in bed in the morning listening to the sheep and the cows etc  ( sad I know lol ) but it would be horrible to have something like a supermarket instead  .

I want a new supermarket, I hate the CO OP , but I wouldnt want to look at one out of my back window, and thats exactly what is going to happen to other residents if this goes ahead .

I agree about the development at Rose Hill School , and am glad to say that " My little darling " has not been effected by the work going on their either.

Aquinas college  cost 42 million pounds ,  I honestly dont think 13 million pounds will go a very long way to bringing the  Marple college up to scratch , it sounds alot, but if you look at Aquinas, you can clearly see it isnt going to go a long way . ... but thats just my own thoughts, Im not a builder

I think I would be more at ease if If peoople knew exactly where the money is going to be spent on the redevelopment of the college , what exactly the college is going to do with the money ?  will it be enough to revamp it, and if its not, what happens then ?  The supermarket still  get the land, and the children of Marple  going up to college potentially get nothing ?  ( Im speculating )

I know you are going to say it    .... Ive changed my tune a bit :)

I agree, we need to move with the times,  not many families have the luxury of being " stay at home mums " families are having to work more hours, I know in my house that has applied and I now have a second job , my husband is not on a bad income, but the cost of living is horrendous and wage increases do not reflect the soaring cost of living , and I find myself travelling to get the same goods at the cheapest price and that means going out of the area to do it  ..... sadly .

So yes to a new supermarket, but no to it being on Hibbert lane , I would change my poll vote, but I dont think I can





so much for not mentioning the S word! lol

I take all your points thank you.(but going a little off topic and I didn't want to!) the main argument of a S on Hibbert Lane is traffic, pollution and loss of local business in Marple. They would still protest/campaign against it if it was built closer to the center
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Rachael on August 30, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
well this is where I think many of the opposers to the supermarkets points go out of the window, as they state they dont want it on Hibbert lane, but dont object to a supermarket ,  but if the supermarket was else where, you are still going to get the same amount of traffic  ... so that arguement doesnt make sense to me .

As for the height of the building of Buxton lane, if you look at the houses on the park and patterson site,  there is a lovely one that towers above the others ( think it might be apartments ) .

My worry is where the money for the college is going to go,  I am like yourself, I want better facilities and education  , but 13 million isnt going to get far ( but Ive already said it ) , it would take an extensive rebuild to accomodate all the children in Marple who are due to go to college, either that, or we have a mad system like they have at Aquinas because  its so over subscribed  ... we made over 250 phone calls, and had 8 telephones going to get my son a place at aquinas  .... what happens if the marple college run out of money ?

Im waffling  :)
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Taurus on August 30, 2011, 02:40:36 PM
Quote
we made over 250 phone calls, and had 8 telephones going to get my son a place at aquinas

my son wants to go there next year......this has made me very nervous  :-[
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Rachael on August 30, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
We fell into the bottom catagory when it comes to priority of students ,  they open approx  400 places for bottom  catagory students to phone up and apply  on a saturday morning,  and its on a first come first served basis, as to if and when you can get through,  it was extreemely stressfull , and many of my sons friends didnt stand a chance because they may only have one or two people phoning to try and get through .

Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 04:08:33 PM
Is anyone else old enough, or been around Marple long enough, to remember the uproar around the closure of Marple Ridge school and replacement with the sixth form college? There is always huge resistance to any change.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: tina on August 30, 2011, 04:10:40 PM
Is anyone else old enough, or been around Marple long enough, to remember the uproar around the closure of Marple Ridge school and replacement with the sixth form college? There is always huge resistance to any change.

Yes I was a student at the time, and like everything else it went ahead and no harm was done to the community. School children just moved down to Marple Hall and no ones education suffered
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 04:24:11 PM
The MIA clearly state that they are not against a new supermarket in Marple, just about where it is  .

You have spent many a time in my back garden , can you imagine the look out if a new supermarket was built there, I lie in bed in the morning listening to the sheep and the cows etc  ( sad I know lol ) but it would be horrible to have something like a supermarket instead  .

I want a new supermarket, I hate the CO OP , but I wouldnt want to look at one out of my back window, and thats exactly what is going to happen to other residents if this goes ahead .

I agree about the development at Rose Hill School , and am glad to say that " My little darling " has not been effected by the work going on their either.

Aquinas college  cost 42 million pounds ,  I honestly dont think 13 million pounds will go a very long way to bringing the  Marple college up to scratch , it sounds alot, but if you look at Aquinas, you can clearly see it isnt going to go a long way . ... but thats just my own thoughts, Im not a builder


I think I would be more at ease if If peoople knew exactly where the money is going to be spent on the redevelopment of the college , what exactly the college is going to do with the money ?  will it be enough to revamp it, and if its not, what happens then ?  The supermarket still  get the land, and the children of Marple  going up to college potentially get nothing ?  ( Im speculating )

I know you are going to say it    .... Ive changed my tune a bit :)

I agree, we need to move with the times,  not many families have the luxury of being " stay at home mums " families are having to work more hours, I know in my house that has applied and I now have a second job , my husband is not on a bad income, but the cost of living is horrendous and wage increases do not reflect the soaring cost of living , and I find myself travelling to get the same goods at the cheapest price and that means going out of the area to do it  ..... sadly .

So yes to a new supermarket, but no to it being on Hibbert lane , I would change my poll vote, but I dont think I can


so much for not mentioning the S word! lol

I take all your points thank you.(but going a little off topic and I didn't want to!) the main argument of a S on Hibbert Lane is traffic, pollution and loss of local business in Marple. They would still protest/campaign against it if it was built closer to the center

In the town centre where traffic etc already exists would be far more beneficial than in the middle of a housing estate.  The size of the land on Hibbert lane is also a concern as the store if built would no doubt be much bigger than that which could be accommodated in the town centre.  I think a decent sized store could be accommodated to provide enough choice for us all-bigger stores are close by if more than a standard shop is required.

Pink Panthers concern re what will the college do if they run out of money is also my concern-will they sell another site as has been mentioned? Only time will tell. 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 05:23:02 PM
Well said Tina (and others) - thanks for introducing some much-needed commonsense to this topic.

Re the college's likely need for more than 12 million, public sector bodies have always been able to borrow at low rates of interest, and as all interest rates are very low anyway at the moment, they will be able to borrow very cheaply.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on August 30, 2011, 06:01:16 PM
well this is where I think many of the opposers to the supermarkets points go out of the window, as they state they dont want it on Hibbert lane, but dont object to a supermarket ,  but if the supermarket was else where, you are still going to get the same amount of traffic  ... so that arguement doesnt make sense to me .

As for the height of the building of Buxton lane, if you look at the houses on the park and patterson site,  there is a lovely one that towers above the others ( think it might be apartments ) .

My worry is where the money for the college is going to go,  I am like yourself, I want better facilities and education  , but 13 million isnt going to get far ( but Ive already said it ) , it would take an extensive rebuild to accomodate all the children in Marple who are due to go to college, either that, or we have a mad system like they have at Aquinas because  its so over subscribed  ... we made over 250 phone calls, and had 8 telephones going to get my son a place at aquinas  .... what happens if the marple college run out of money ?

Im waffling  :)

Not quite the same problem, I want the supermarket to be within the town centre area. & I don't want it to be superstore sized hence the increase traffic is dependanat on the size of the store.

I undersand that the college no longer needs 2 campi in Marple due to the lack of students. If there is going to be more students, then surely the option to take is maintain the 2 current sites adn save the £12m vanity project at Buxton La.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: jethroh65 on August 30, 2011, 11:21:51 PM
I have started this new thread re camsfc/rose hill  to put a few points across about the new build what is happening at Rose Hill and hopefully at Buxton Lane.
There is method to my madness so please bear with me.

When Peacefield/Rose Hill and the Dale merged into 1 school 2 years ago there was uproar.
But 2 years on... the new building is coming on nicely and is being built as 2 floors. The children's education has not really been disrupted and have all coped with it well... my son has just left and had great sats results, his class room was demolished earlier this year and was being taught in the mobile classrooms. If a 11yr old can cope with change then I'm sure the 16+ can cope just as well. Rose Hill is going to be modern and will last for a very long time. will not be a drain on school budgets etc.... Now at the moment there is talk that IF the Hibbert Lane site is sold the money will go towards rebuilding the Buxton Lane site. This can only be a good thing I'm sure? The college will therefore go on for many more years teaching our future generations. If it doesn't go ahead then both sites will keep draining the colleges budget and therefore no money left to keep the building up to date and will in the end close. I would prefer the college get the highest bid for it and have a modern college, rather than it crumble away.
Also the building at present on Buxton Lane is 5 floors but a MIA member has stated a new building would be intrusive to the residents and that parking would become a problem. The site is still the same as when I went to high school. the parking spaces was intended for staff. I'm sure once a new college is built a car park would be in place to accommodate the students (the tennis courts what are a eyesore at present could also be used?)

I know people don't like change its well documented on this very site. But we have to move with the times and think of our future generations. I would like my sons to be able to go to a local college what is modern and up to date and not my old crumbling down high school. I would like their children in time to also benefit from it too!

Now can we keep this topic on topic and put your views across as adults without shouting or insulting anyone and no mention of a supermarket as this is not about that its about what would be good for the college and the community.

Tina some comments on your post:-

1. I am sure the residents near the new Rose Hill School are not that impressed with the view of the new 2 storey building going up.

2. My child also left Rose Hill last year, yes also had good STATS  results, but I'm sure she could have achieved the same results at Peacefield the same as her sibling did without the additional 1 mile walk !!

3. What will the traffic be like at Rose Hill School when it is finished ? It was bad enough last year, what's it going to be like when all the Kids that at are the Dale at present move there in 12 months ?

4. When we moved to Marple 16 years ago we had a choice of schools all easily accessible to various areas of Marple depending on where we chose to buy. Now anybody who lives close to the Hawk Green area has got a horrendous walk to Rose Hill!
Basically the choice as been removed.

5. Also I am sure that the most of the people around the Buxton Lane area are not that impressed about the thought of another High rise building on the site and all the associated traffic,Parking problems etc.
So your theory is that all the cars that are presently on the Hibbert Lane Car Park will fit in the space where the Tennis courts are? I doubt it, & the New Building will be on the Green Field between the 2 sets of houses between Buxton Lane & Carver Rd Area ? Nice view outlook for all the residents that will be!

People have moved to or stay in this area they like the area as it is, why is change and new always deemed to be better "moving with the times".

And once our children in the future have finished their education at the brand new all singing all dancing college, where are they going to be able to afford to live in Marple?
Maybe they'll come back to visit us now and again & do their shopping at the New Asda!!!


Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
jethro,

my own house is on Elmfield Drive. Yes the new school is bigger than before but then it's really not that bad, and it's great that the kids have new facilities. My perspective is to try not to be a NIMBY at all costs, I usually have more important things to worry about. But then I also appreciate that others don't share this view, although I don't generally agree with them.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 11:44:28 PM
I think it is terrible that they shut the two schools. I have heard rumours that they want to close the other remaining school but was told it was a playground rumour (wouldn't surprise me though by the council's prior actions and also by looking at the surplus places for the two schools, from the last figures they could close the other school and cram them all into Rose Hill!)

I agree the traffic was dreadful at Rose Hill already. People constantly mounting the kerbs on Elmfield drive etc. Also have been told by a parent that the increased numbers in the playground haven't been met by increase of midday staff etc. Whether that is the case or one person's opinion is a matter of debate.

I personally would not like my child to go to a superschool. The plans looked awful to me. Stairs and kids do not mix with open balconies. Rose Hill was pretty big before. Are superschools the best thing for children or to save money?
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: jethroh65 on August 31, 2011, 12:18:07 AM
jethro,

my own house is on Elmfield Drive. Yes the new school is bigger than before but then it's really not that bad, and it's great that the kids have new facilities. My perspective is to try not to be a NIMBY at all costs, I usually have more important things to worry about. But then I also appreciate that others don't share this view, although I don't generally agree with them.
I suppose if you live on Elmfield Drive already and are used to the school being there, the new build will be less of an issue. And you are happy with the increase in traffic and parking issues, fair comment.
Less reason to be a NIMBY.

I would say however that if you live near the proposed site of the new supermarket or near the proposed new build on Buxton Lane, both of which don't exist at present,you would have a different perspective on things.
No doubt from reading your comments on various posts you will keep playing Devil's Advocate!!!

Cheers!!
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Rachael on August 31, 2011, 08:18:29 AM
I have started this new thread re camsfc/rose hill  to put a few points across about the new build what is happening at Rose Hill and hopefully at Buxton Lane.
There is method to my madness so please bear with me.

When Peacefield/Rose Hill and the Dale merged into 1 school 2 years ago there was uproar.
But 2 years on... the new building is coming on nicely and is being built as 2 floors. The children's education has not really been disrupted and have all coped with it well... my son has just left and had great sats results, his class room was demolished earlier this year and was being taught in the mobile classrooms. If a 11yr old can cope with change then I'm sure the 16+ can cope just as well. Rose Hill is going to be modern and will last for a very long time. will not be a drain on school budgets etc.... Now at the moment there is talk that IF the Hibbert Lane site is sold the money will go towards rebuilding the Buxton Lane site. This can only be a good thing I'm sure? The college will therefore go on for many more years teaching our future generations. If it doesn't go ahead then both sites will keep draining the colleges budget and therefore no money left to keep the building up to date and will in the end close. I would prefer the college get the highest bid for it and have a modern college, rather than it crumble away.
Also the building at present on Buxton Lane is 5 floors but a MIA member has stated a new building would be intrusive to the residents and that parking would become a problem. The site is still the same as when I went to high school. the parking spaces was intended for staff. I'm sure once a new college is built a car park would be in place to accommodate the students (the tennis courts what are a eyesore at present could also be used?)

I know people don't like change its well documented on this very site. But we have to move with the times and think of our future generations. I would like my sons to be able to go to a local college what is modern and up to date and not my old crumbling down high school. I would like their children in time to also benefit from it too!

Now can we keep this topic on topic and put your views across as adults without shouting or insulting anyone and no mention of a supermarket as this is not about that its about what would be good for the college and the community.



And once our children in the future have finished their education at the brand new all singing all dancing college, where are they going to be able to afford to live in Marple?
Maybe they'll come back to visit us now and again & do their shopping at the New Asda!!!




I think that is going to apply in many areas  for young people  :(  ...  we bought our house 15 years ago ,   but the bottom line is, that if we were looking at buying our house  ( the same house ) now,  we simply would not be able to afford it .
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Henry_ on August 31, 2011, 09:32:54 AM

Yes, you are right with that. Nothing worse than a NIMBY moving into a property knowing what is next to it, or being proposed for nearby, and then still complaining. Well, there are things worse but you know what I mean  ::) . However, we did move to that Rd before all these plans came out.

I take your point about people living near to the Hibbert Lane campus. But I also think they are being scared into believing a hypermarket is afoot, for which there is no evidence. Surely no informed decision can be made until any plans are actually submitted?
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: tina on August 31, 2011, 11:29:48 AM
[
[/quote]

5. Also I am sure that the most of the people around the Buxton Lane area are not that impressed about the thought of another High rise building on the site and all the associated traffic,Parking problems etc.
So your theory is that all the cars that are presently on the Hibbert Lane Car Park will fit in the space where the Tennis courts are? I doubt it, & the New Building will be on the Green Field between the 2 sets of houses between Buxton Lane & Carver Rd Area ? Nice view outlook for all the residents that will be!

People have moved to or stay in this area they like the area as it is, why is change and new always deemed to be better "moving with the times".

And once our children in the future have finished their education at the brand new all singing all dancing college, where are they going to be able to afford to live in Marple?
Maybe they'll come back to visit us now and again & do their shopping at the New Asda!!!



[/quote]

I just want to pick up on your point 5... I didn't mean JUST the tennis court for parking I ment for it to join with the current carpark. that then would be a bigger car park.
also the school there is big you can't miss it, its big and its ugly. How can having a brand new building be as bad as that? it would be built on the same land as to where the current building is. It used to be a high school, with hundreds of children using it daily. I used it my brother and sister used it. The houses surrounding it have always had a huge building in their view, it would just be replaced with a new one what will last for many many years and provide higher education for our future generation.
As for where the children of the future are going to live. I was lucky and was able to get a mortgage. but it is already happening. My son and his family have to privately rent as there is no way they could afford a mortgage, rent alone these days is scary. So I don't believe a new school is really going to make a difference to that side of the argument.
Yes new houses need to be built, but they are still expensive and some people don't like them being built either, there is always going to be a 'NO' and 'YES' to every development.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: bluebelly on August 31, 2011, 01:06:43 PM
well said tina..
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: jethroh65 on September 01, 2011, 08:02:29 AM

I just want to pick up on your point 5... I didn't mean JUST the tennis court for parking I ment for it to join with the current carpark. that then would be a bigger car park.
also the school there is big you can't miss it, its big and its ugly. How can having a brand new building be as bad as that? it would be built on the same land as to where the current building is. It used to be a high school, with hundreds of children using it daily. I used it my brother and sister used it. The houses surrounding it have always had a huge building in their view, it would just be replaced with a new one what will last for many many years and provide higher education for our future generation.
As for where the children of the future are going to live. I was lucky and was able to get a mortgage. but it is already happening. My son and his family have to privately rent as there is no way they could afford a mortgage, rent alone these days is scary. So I don't believe a new school is really going to make a difference to that side of the argument.
Yes new houses need to be built, but they are still expensive and some people don't like them being built either, there is always going to be a 'NO' and 'YES' to every development.
[/quote]

If the land that Tennis court occupies is joined onto the existing car park I still don't think it will provide enough room for all the cars that
currently park on the Hibbert Lane. It will end up with parking like it is on the open/parent's evenings at college i.e cars parked on both sides of Buxton Lane and the side roads. This happens every open evening and stops being able to park outside my own house.
Also you say the existing building which I agree is an eyesore, will be knocked down and replaced with a new one The new would have to be at least 3 times the size to accommodate the transfer of students from Hibbert Lane. Yes there was there was an High school there before but that was before I lived in there area so I am not sure what it was like at the time ? But high school kids won't have been travelling to school in cars like many of the students at the college do !

As for the point about the housing, I don't mean to say that a new school would stop children living in the area, what I meant to say was, that rather than a new supermarket I would prefer some sought of low cost housing on the area rather than a new supermarket.

My eldest is off to Uni next week, and when she finishes in 3 years and hopefully starts a new career how will she be able to stay in the
area she grew up in ?

Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Dave on September 01, 2011, 09:41:20 AM
Also you say the existing building which I agree is an eyesore, will be knocked down and replaced with a new one

I can't see that happening, simply because the college would not be able to afford it.  As you say, any new building would have to be much bigger then the present Buxton Lane premises, to accommodate all students from both campuses.  Even with some borrowing on top of the estimated £12 million from the sale of Hibbert Lane, the money probably won't go that far.  So I think we'll see a mixture of additional new buildings on the Buxton Lane site, combined with refurbishment of the present ones. 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 05, 2011, 10:33:54 AM
The obvious question for the college is do they really need new buildings. If they don't sell Hibbert Lane, they will not receive £12m but they will not need to rebuild their Buxton lane site. THe college is reletively under-utilised in the evenings, surely the business case for the college is not to raise money for the college by selling property but rather improving income by being better at being a college.

I can also see options for the college to sell part of their campus without needing to lose capacity and not need to rebuild buxton lane.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2011, 11:41:34 AM
That last point is an interesting one, although I suspect there may be restrictions (for ten years after sale?) on building on the college's former playing fields etc. This could limit the land value, obviously.

Re 'improving income by being better at being a college', surely that is exactly what the college is trying to do.  The only way they can significantly improve income is by attracting more students.  That means competing more effectively with Aquinas, which has lots of nice (and efficient) new buildings.  Camsfc, on the other hand, has outdated and unattractive buildings which were built for another use (a secondary school) and which are therefore being used inefficiently.  Their heating and maintenance costs will also be relatively high.  Increase income by attracting and retaining more students: reduce expenditure by cutting running costs  - it's a no brainer, surely! 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 05, 2011, 12:36:59 PM
That last point is an interesting one, although I suspect there may be restrictions (for ten years after sale?) on building on the college's former playing fields etc. This could limit the land value, obviously.

Re 'improving income by being better at being a college', surely that is exactly what the college is trying to do.  The only way they can significantly improve income is by attracting more students.  That means competing more effectively with Aquinas, which has lots of nice (and efficient) new buildings.  Camsfc, on the other hand, has outdated and unattractive buildings which were built for another use (a secondary school) and which are therefore being used inefficiently.  Their heating and maintenance costs will also be relatively high.  Increase income by attracting and retaining more students: reduce expenditure by cutting running costs  - it's a no brainer, surely! 

When I refer to selling part of the campus, I mean the existing buildings.

This inefficient & unattractive buildings argument doesn't wash with me. Oxford Univisities don't have too much of a problem attracting pupils despite the old Polly having more modern buildings. It's the courses and the value of the qualification that attracts pupils not an aversion to post art-deco period buildings, I feel a new build at buxton Lane will be more fo a vanity project than a serious attempt at improving the education of kids.

I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2011, 12:49:54 PM
I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.

Maybe that's because you can't see Marple from the A6   ;D  If you could you might have a nice surprise:   http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/adult-learning/Adult%20Prospectuses/2011-2012%20AdultProspectus.pdf

However, I happen to know (because I used to work at a college) that these courses don't earn serious income - they just about cover their costs, that's all.  The only way colleges of this sort can significantly increase their income is by enrolling and retaining full-time students.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 05, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.

Maybe that's because you can't see Marple from the A6   ;D  If you could you might have a nice surprise:   http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/adult-learning/Adult%20Prospectuses/2011-2012%20AdultProspectus.pdf

However, I happen to know (because I used to work at a college) that these courses don't earn serious income - they just about cover their costs, that's all.  The only way colleges of this sort can significantly increase their income is by enrolling and retaining full-time students.

Not sure what you mean. There is very little evening activity in Marple and therefore, the buildings are not being fully utilised.
My old college used to make a fortune running eveing courses. I completed institute of banking exams and some early rounds of acountancy professional courses, there is big money in professional education.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2011, 05:57:54 PM
I see what you mean - it's a long list of adult education and part-time courses, but on closer examination most seem to be run at Cheadle rather than Marple. I wonder why? Maybe it's because we're all so well educated already ;-). Although I see you can do tap dancing on a Wednesday evening - now that might suit you, Duke!
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: JMC on September 05, 2011, 09:01:30 PM
I agree about the adult education being mostly at Cheadle (or it was a few years ago when i was looking into it). I went to night classes a few years ago but there wasn't alot of choice. It would be a shame to see this go (depending of course on what happens) as many friends on the course needed such qualifications as GCSE Maths/English to get into teaching/nursing etc and many went on to that. Not all of them could drive so being local was great. I also heard that the council (or the people running the sports facilities) were making it difficult for people hiring the Hibbert lane sports hall. Hence some groups such as karate clubs had to move to another facility. I am not sure whether that was just poor running of the facility or anything to do with them wanting rid of it (or maybe even having their own plans) though.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Henry_ on September 05, 2011, 11:24:14 PM
I did some evening classes there a couple of years ago. But the choice was limited to some fairly low end academic stuff and a lot of fun pursuits like wine tasting. Nothing wrong with that per se but there were no accounting or serious IT courses which could have attracted people willing to spend big money.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 05, 2011, 11:39:12 PM
I did some evening classes there a couple of years ago. But the choice was limited to some fairly low end academic stuff and a lot of fun pursuits like wine tasting. Nothing wrong with that per se but there were no accounting or serious IT courses which could have attracted people willing to spend big money.

This all points to either Marple folk not being academic or the college missing out on income. Income which would give the basis to raise funding & also utilise the assets of the College
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: sgk on September 05, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
This all points to either Marple folk not being academic or the college missing out on income. Income which would give the basis to raise funding & also utilise the assets of the College

The latter, I'd say, as a considerable 37% of Marple campus students (555 students of the 1,472 who studied in 2010) hark from SK6.

Info taken from college's own figures (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/student_numbers_by_yearsitepostc#incoming-206880). 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Lisa Oldham on September 06, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
Id love to do evening classes there and i have looked several times over several years... but as HWL1973 says the courses weren't the professional training ones that I was interested in
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 07, 2011, 12:34:46 AM
What this points to is the product provided by the college is not good enough rather than a building issue. The sale of the family silver will not provide a platform for improving the college services but rather paper over the shortcomings and poor business sense
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: bluebelly on September 07, 2011, 12:23:33 PM
there should be a youth club there
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: NeilCorrie on September 07, 2011, 06:33:16 PM
What this points to is the product provided by the college is not good enough rather than a building issue. The sale of the family silver will not provide a platform for improving the college services but rather paper over the shortcomings and poor business sense

Agreed.  It's very regrettable that things are in such a dire state financially that it's necessary to sell a busy and popular site.  One gets the feeling "when it's gone, it's gone forever" : purchasing and developing another site in years to come could be quite a challenge.

Somewhat suprising that the principal has convinced the entire board of governors this "selling the family silver" is the best approach in the interest of college + students.

Governors will have their opportunity to explain this at Saturday's rally in the park (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm).  Each and every one of them has been invited, I'm assured. 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Miss Marple on September 07, 2011, 09:28:15 PM
there should be a youth club there
.

Funny you should say that there is a youth club there but according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ???   Which is a shame because SMBC still have control of that and it should be used by the public because we are paying for it out of our community charge.  There is also a sports facility there that is SMBC and I don't suppose that's used much either   Maybe we should all use it more and the youth club could be somewhere that could be taken over by a youth group and the sports facility could be used by football teams etc 
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Smithy166 on September 07, 2011, 09:34:07 PM
I seem to remember A youth worker who ran a club at marple hall saying it had closed, Which is interesting....
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: sgk on September 07, 2011, 09:48:36 PM
according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ??? 

It's only used for circuit training classes, zumba classes, bum/legs/tums classes, pilates classes, dancercise classes.  And that's just the sessions that are booked out each week.  There's also the individual bookings for badminton, 5-a-side football etc, which I know because I've played there in the past.

The college have use of it the majority of the time, with the community getting it 5pm-10pm each weekday and 9am-5pm weekends, per the covenant agreement which dictated this community use in return for the college getting use of the land.

Stockport Sports Trust : Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College (http://www.sportinstockport.com/cheadleandmarple.asp)
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: sgk on September 07, 2011, 09:54:10 PM
according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ??? 

Neil submitted a FOI (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/loss_of_sport_facilities_in_cent) asking Stockport Sports Trust (the not-for-profit organisation who run it) "Could you also advise what plans the Trust has to ensure that the people of Marple continue to benefit from the much loved sports facilities provided so close to the centre of Marple?" but they were not able to answer that query. 

Quote
Thank you for the timely reply. The local MP had cited you as an example of the type of organisation that should be subject to FOI and you have responded to earlier FOI requests.

It's regrettable that you are not able to answer this request and give local people of Stockport your take on this removal of Marple sports facilities.

It's also regrettable that in the very year the UK will be celebrating the London Olympics, it's likely that Marple folk will see bulldozers flattening their sports hall and gym.

I wish the trust all the best in the remainder of Stockport. It's been great having these facilities in Marple.

Kind regards,

Neil Corrie

Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Duke Fame on September 07, 2011, 10:12:15 PM
there should be a youth club there
.

Funny you should say that there is a youth club there but according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ???   Which is a shame because SMBC still have control of that and it should be used by the public because we are paying for it out of our community charge.  There is also a sports facility there that is SMBC and I don't suppose that's used much either   Maybe we should all use it more and the youth club could be somewhere that could be taken over by a youth group and the sports facility could be used by football teams etc 

It would be better ran by private organisations
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: JMC on September 08, 2011, 11:25:16 AM

there should be a youth club there
.

Funny you should say that there is a youth club there but according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ???   Which is a shame because SMBC still have control of that and it should be used by the public because we are paying for it out of our community charge.  There is also a sports facility there that is SMBC and I don't suppose that's used much either   Maybe we should all use it more and the youth club could be somewhere that could be taken over by a youth group and the sports facility could be used by football teams etc  

I know of at least one group who hired the hall for a sports club and had to change in the end as they (think it was the sports trust)  were always leaving the doors locked or turning up late to open it etc. and weren't keen on opening at weekends etc.
Title: Re: Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school
Post by: Northernstar on September 08, 2011, 08:38:19 PM
there should be a youth club there
.

Funny you should say that there is a youth club there but according to CAMSFC it's not used as much as it should be  ???   Which is a shame because SMBC still have control of that and it should be used by the public because we are paying for it out of our community charge.  There is also a sports facility there that is SMBC and I don't suppose that's used much either   Maybe we should all use it more and the youth club could be somewhere that could be taken over by a youth group and the sports facility could be used by football teams etc  

For the football season last year we were unable to use the college as someone had already booked it for the day and time that we had hired it the year before, this year however we have been able to book it, but at a later time.

One of the other clubs this year are going to be using CAMSFC facilities as well as our club, so the sports facilities at CAMSFC are being used by football teams at present, but if we lose the sports facilities, then some more of our club will have to train outside the Marple area as there are not enough facilities as it is. I know that the new Rose Hill School is going to have a pitch and also Astro Turf, but from what we have been told at the club, the Astro Turf is not going to have flood lights, making it unsuitable to use as a training facility in the winter months.