Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: Miss Marple on August 14, 2011, 05:24:41 PM
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I have been sent a copy of the resignation letter from Stephen Downs to The Governors and the Principal-ship. I cannot put the letter on the forum due to legal reasons and would not ask Admin to do that, the person who sent it to me has taken a huge risk but feels that the community of MARPLE should know what the TRUE PLANS OF CAMSFC are. There are many people working in CAMSFC that are not happy about the proposed sale to a supermarket and feel that the public needs to be aware of the facts.
Although I cannot publish the letter, what I can do is give you an insight into what it contains. Which will put Lawrence Grant's (Chairman of governors for CAMSFC ) recently released statement into question.
The resignation letter tells of a meeting which was held on 12 July 2011 with the Corporation of CAMSFC whereby the Governors and the Principle-ship decided to continue with the proposals to sell the land at the HIBBERT Lane Campus to a national supermarket chain. Stephen Downs states that he has considered his position and as a local resident of the area, who shops weekly in Marple's local shops, he has a different perspective from other members.
Why I think this resignation letter is very important is because it states that CAMSFC Governors and the Principle-ship have decided to continue with the proposal to sell the land to a supermarket chain. Later in the letter Stephen Downs states that the strategy of selling land to a national supermarket is wrong and that he believes that the college should look at a more socially beneficial option rather that the best financially, which would be to look at selling the land for affordable housing, and to sell to a supermarket chain is wrong.
Now if we look at what CAMSFC state in their recent press release and on CAMSFC site and more recently in the latest edition of The Stockport Times, whereby Lawrence Grant (Chairman) states " Who will buy the site ' and "We can make no assumption as to who the ultimate purchaser will be" doesn't seem right because WE ALREADY KNOW that ASDA and Tesco are the two supermarkets What we didn't know was that they have not really looked at other options that would benefit the community.
I have written to ask if CAMSFC will re look at their Chairmans statement and request that another one is issued asap, informing the community, parents and parents of potential students the truth.
I am concerned that the people who have responsibility in teaching our young people morals, values and honesty are failing in their duty of care by way of not even informing, parents,students teachers, potential students and the community of the proposals they have decided on without consultation with the people it will directly effect. THAT CAN NOT BE RIGHT CAN IT ???
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I do feel that some people are being a little harsh on the College. Like it or not (and obviously most don't), the College leadership (Governors, etc) have a legal duty to do what is best for their constituents, ie the Students. And whilst you can make arguments about how a supermarket will affect the quality of life for Marple based students, ultimately it comes down to how much money they can get to redevelop the land and buildings they have left.
It's not really fair to criticise them for not consulting, as they are under no requirement to do so. I don't have to consult you if I want to sell my house, nor you I. It's what happens next that requires public consultation.
The Chairman's statement is (as far as we know at this stage) perfectly truthful. The College don't know who the buyers will be. He could have added that it'll probably be either Tesco or Asda, but why would he. The college are (presumably) in negotiation with any and all parties who are interested in buying the land, and it's unreasonable to criticise them for not putting "commercially confidential" discussions into a press statement.
I don't think that continually taking pot-shots at the College leadership for doing what they are legally tasked to do, look after the best interests of the Students, is the way to win "hearts and minds" for the MIA campaign.
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Do you think its right that parents , and teachers are not aware of any proposals and how this may effect their jobs. This post was posted by me not MIA and it is not taking pot shots at anyone I have been in to talks with the college and if I am nothing else I am honest and really have better things to do than keep trying sort fact from fiction with the college This is my life my family and my community that will be effected ! The governors do not live even local, the only one that did resigned , Ms Cassidy lives in Stoke, So what do you suggest ? That we continue to allow them to keep telling us untruths and tie us up in knots and delay us in seeking out the truth. If this goes to planning it will be hard to fight as Mr Hubert has already said that the college will appeal any decision by SMBC planning dept against a supermarket So as a community charge payer, paying nearly as much as the national debt per year I do not want to see SMBC bankrupt defending this do you ? If it's right and they believe this is the right thing to do,why were the college trying to get it to planning before the community knew. Remember we, the community only got to know because a member of staff leaked it out of the college, remember the two leaked emails from concerned staff.
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marpleexile's post is reasonable, logical and objective and is therefore bound to be criticised. On the subject of potshots someone was reporting on this forum some days ago that they had trawled through the college's OFSTED report apparently looking for negative comments and there was also a gleeful report that Marple Hall's possible academy status would deprive the college of a significant part of its intake. What has all that got to do with thecampaign?
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marpleexile's post is reasonable, logical and objective and is therefore bound to be criticised. On the subject of potshots someone was reporting on this forum some days ago that they had trawled through the college's OFSTED report apparently looking for negative comments and there was also a gleeful report that Marple Hall's possible academy status would deprive the college of a significant part of its intake. What has all that got to do with thecampaign?
Nothing
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I agree with marplexile that the governors of the college have no choice but to seek the best possible price for the land. They have what is rather grandly called a 'fiduciary duty' to the college, which binds them always to act in its best interests. However, I do agree with Miss M that they have handled the PR very clumsily. It's easy to be clever with hindsight, but the college would have played their hand much better by being open about their plans from the outset, rather than trying to hush them up.
As for Mr Downs, the governor who has resigned, he surely had little choice: in opposing a plan which would have got the best price for the land, he was acting against the interests of his own college, and therefore would have had to resign.
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The name Marpleexile does make me wonder if these are the views of someone who lives in Marple or just USED to live in Marple ???
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The name Marpleexile does make me wonder if these are the views of someone who lives in Marple or just USED to live in Marple ???
Used to, and will be back early next year, hence my interest in this subject.
Not that it has any relevance to what I posted though.
I support the campaign, but it's tone, as voiced by some of it's more notable members on here, does it no favours.
At the moment, a lot of the arguments against are only one step above NIMBY, or are just personal attacks against College, etc. There needs to be more substance to the arguments.
The point made in another thread about crime near local supermarkets just in June, vs crime at the college over the last 6 months is just the sort of thing that is needed.
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Hey you cheeky monkey ! I hope you are not referring to me ;). Because if it hadn't been for me the first we would have known about it was when we saw it stuck to a lamp post or we were being asked to look at the plans in the local library. Well don't worry about MARPLE MIA will look after it until you return, then you maybe able to join us ??? Always remember the leaked emails and what they said, because thats what makes it personal. I think really I am being a little unfair on you, because unlike me you have not been in meetings with the college and possibley not had sight of the leaked emails or indeed spoken to teachers, students and concerned college staff who are also being kept in the dark by the college. So all I ask is for you to reserve your judgement of me and when your not a Marpleexile anymore and back living in MARPLE you may have a better understanding ??? So let's not have a bun fight just yet ? :-*
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I'd argue that the "best interests of the college" is not necessarily getting the best possible price for the site.
They will still be in Marple and need Marple people to support them. whereas an Asda store will be used and a success even though its currently opposed... the college might not have the same success or local respect and might not be able to bring in the calibre of students they require to build a good educational reputation.
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Nothing wrong with NIMBY because our "back yard" is a special one and we don't want it spoiling....simples.
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Id also like to mention to alstan and marpleexile that the unwarranted personal attacks, which I also objected to, are now history... a lot of people are very involved in this campaigns and credit to them for being so determined..it is easy to over step the mark they are NOT politicians.. they are NOT media gurus and they are not highly polished campaigners!! But they are getting there now...
So please stop bringing that issue up...give credit where its due and see that current posts are not personal attacks.
as to the "truths".. we know for fact..as its been proven over and over again (and I think you should stop reiterating it now Miss Marple. The points have been made and i feel theres a few here that are just trying to undermine that approach now) that it s asda... with a secondary, currently failed bid, by tesco. Its been confirmed by correspondence, and then public statements, that they are only looking at the supermarket, maximum amount, bids.
(Is also clear the college is playing damage limitation and being economical with the truth based on what we know 9 above) and the public statements they have made..
As for the college... see my previous response... and then some... they are OUR COLLEGE.. primarily for OUR children... have they no pride in their location, no concern for the neighbourhood, no social conscience what so ever! I will reconsider sending my children there because of these things!
The number of articles and studies and campaigns going on right now,.. the national political concern for the proliferation of big supermarkets and the mostly negative effects on local neighbourhoods should be considered by the college.. Their responsibility to their students is much more far reaching than just grabbing as much money as possible to produce good facilities.. there is a lot more involved in education than pretty buildings and nice computers. As a local organisation they do have a local responsibility and they are ignoring this.
Now to me this forum is being used to raise legitimate concerns about the proposed development, everything that was questionable has now been proven not necessarily by the college saying this or asda saying that but a culmination of evidence. I dont understand why we are questioning anything now expect to undermine well meaning individuals.
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I also feel that I should voice my concerns with regards to dragging up the past.
The attacks on various parties by people on this forum were unacceptable, and we all know that, However, The "attackers" have been spoken to with regards to therre comments.
In the eyes of everyone else the matter is closed, So please, stop dragging the past up, as dragging the past up only hinders progress, and after all, were not going to win this war unless we "move foward" and take ground.
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Apologises for the double post,
After reading the description of the letter above again, along with some of the FOI's that have been answered i'm starting to wounder weither the college is trying to hide something form us, apart from "who will buy the site". What exactly they are trying to hide i'm not sure, however, it looks like it could be that a "under the table" deal has already taken place, and that that actual exchange of "official" funds will actually be rather small. Almost as if whatever company is buying the site has already payed the deposit, and now just has to Pay the last chunk...
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I think Marpleexile's point is very valid. decisions will not be taken by local people and there is a natural view of these sort of campaigns as NIMBYism. The case against the supermarket needs to be based on valid objections rather than emotions.
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Lisa argues persuasively that the college should regard itself as having a wider responsibility to the area, but I think her post misrepresents the college's position, and those who oppose this scheme might be more successful if they really understand where the college is coming from. It's certainly not a matter of 'pretty buildings and nice computers.' We are talking about 80-year-old buildings of poor quality, designed for a different purpose, which are inefficient and probably expensive to maintain and heat. By replacing those premises, the college can both cut its costs and improve the learning environment, not to mention compete with Aquinas (with its shiny new buildings), and maybe even Marple Hall if it becomes an academy and starts a sixth form. From the college's perspective it's a no-brainer!
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There was a comment today from David Hoyle that "not one of the college governers comes from Marple". There were a few comments of "shocking" and "disgraceful" from the crowd.
I can't help feeling that it's not really the college's fault. If we really care about our college then the people of Marple should actually be STANDING for places on the committee, not just moaning about how poor it is that there is no community representation. I'm sure somebody else knows, but the next time there's an election or a position opens on the committee, I hope that we have somebody lined up for election or application for the position.
Perhaps having more local people on the committee would help them to become more integrated with the community which is clearly one of the biggest issues here. They are NOT involved with the community in the way that the local schools are.
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That's a very good post Howard and so true ! I wonder if Christina would allow me to join the board of Governours ? Well it maybe worth a try ;)
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That's a very good post Howard and so true ! I wonder if Christina would allow me to join the board of Governours ? Well it maybe worth a try ;)
I know there were many people at the march who have children there who will be students in September. There is a parent govenor's position. We need to get someone to stand for that position.
What's the process that the college uses for appointing govenors to the committee? Anyone know?
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Howard brilliant idea.. though if theres only one that person could get rail roaded.. we need a few!
Dave..Aqunas got its reputation for excellent education many years before it got its shiny new buildings so that argument does not wash! To compete with Aquinas the teaching as well as several other things needs to improve! maybe even the management! The college has been improving in its rating and reputation over the last few years so they are heading in the right direction..or were!
And I am not opposed to the sale of the land and redevelopemnt on the buxton lane site however I want them to do it in a socially responsible way as befits ANY educational establishment... its not a business regardless of what people try and claim.. its a community facility that has more than a basic responsibility to OUR children.
Then theres the other issue.. has it been confirmed without a doubt that any money raised is definitely going to be used to redevelop buxton lane.. or are we maybe going to see the demise of that and then have NO educational facilities beyond 16?
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That's a very good post Howard and so true ! I wonder if Christina would allow me to join the board of Governours ? Well it maybe worth a try ;)
I know there were many people at the march who have children there who will be students in September. There is a parent govenor's position. We need to get someone to stand for that position.
What's the process that the college uses for appointing govenors to the committee? Anyone know?
Good point. Here's their process, Becoming a governor (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=50). Seems only appropriate that the community has a voice on the committee.
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...Then theres the other issue.. has it been confirmed without a doubt that any money raised is definitely going to be used to redevelop buxton lane.. or are we maybe going to see the demise of that and then have NO educational facilities beyond 16?
That's a good question. No concrete details yet, although a FOI was submitted for these details on 17th August (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/plans_concerning_proceeds_from_p#incoming-202657).
Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,
Please provide details of the college's plans concerning the
intended use of any proceeds gained from the proposed Hibbert Lane
site sale.
Yours faithfully,
Neil Corrie
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Howard brilliant idea.. though if theres only one that person could get rail roaded.. we need a few!
Don't forget that there WAS a Marple Bridge based Governor who felt compelled to resign because he was opposed to the college's intended course of action.
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Don't forget that there WAS a Marple Bridge based Governor who felt compelled to resign because he was opposed to the college's intended course of action.
Looking at the list on the Marple-in-Action web site it appears there is only one parent-governor left, Ian Doughty.
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Howard brilliant idea.. though if theres only one that person could get rail roaded.. we need a few!
Dave..Aqunas got its reputation for excellent education many years before it got its shiny new buildings so that argument does not wash! To compete with Aquinas the teaching as well as several other things needs to improve! maybe even the management! The college has been improving in its rating and reputation over the last few years so they are heading in the right direction..or were!
And I am not opposed to the sale of the land and redevelopemnt on the buxton lane site however I want them to do it in a socially responsible way as befits ANY educational establishment... its not a business regardless of what people try and claim.. its a community facility that has more than a basic responsibility to OUR children.
Then theres the other issue.. has it been confirmed without a doubt that any money raised is definitely going to be used to redevelop buxton lane.. or are we maybe going to see the demise of that and then have NO educational facilities beyond 16?
yes Aquinas have had a good academic reputation, but I have to say that when my son , (now aged 25) and I went to an open night there, I found them very patronising, he wanted to do electronics A level and was told he couldn't do without doing it jointly with Physics, the tutor we spoke to was not helpful at all. he went to CAMSFC, got A levels in Electronics, Physics, maths and subsequently got a degree from Manchester Uni. All my boys went to CAMSFC and have all been on to University
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There was a comment today from David Hoyle that "not one of the college governers comes from Marple". There were a few comments of "shocking" and "disgraceful" from the crowd.
That's a very clever use of words.
I don't 'come from Marple', but I've now lived here for over 25 years.
To my knowledge there are at least two college governors who live in Marple. But perhaps they also don't 'come from Marple'.
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To my knowledge there are at least two college governors who live in Marple. But perhaps they also don't 'come from Marple'.
Which two Governors live in Marple Harry? If you listen to the video David says that none of the Governors LIVE in Marple. He doesn't use the words "come from" in the "clever" way that you suggest. So he believes that none of them live here - do you know better?
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There was only two governors that lived local to MARPLE that was Stephen Downs who lives in MARPLE Bridge, but has stood down due to the college proposing to sell the land to a supermarket chain.
The other person is Margaret Mclay who was a council governour but lost her seat at the last election so she is now just a governour and she lives in Compstall. It's all on the web Harry, Christina Cassidy lives in Stoke, three governors work at MMU and one is a consultant who works for Stepping Hill Hospital and he is also a governour for the NHS foundation trust. If you need any questions answering Harry feel free to ask me. Cheers MM
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There was a comment today from David Hoyle that "not one of the college governers comes from Marple". There were a few comments of "shocking" and "disgraceful" from the crowd.
That's a very clever use of words.
I don't 'come from Marple', but I've now lived here for over 25 years.
To my knowledge there are at least two college governors who live in Marple. But perhaps they also don't 'come from Marple'.
Harry, I'd have to disagree with the suggestion that this was some sort of devious play on words. I've lived in Marple for 31 years and would say that I come from Marple....because I do! Marple is my home, my children have lived here all their lives....I think that qualifies us as "coming from Marple".
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Howard brilliant idea.. though if theres only one that person could get rail roaded.. we need a few!
Dave..Aqunas got its reputation for excellent education many years before it got its shiny new buildings so that argument does not wash! To compete with Aquinas the teaching as well as several other things needs to improve! maybe even the management! The college has been improving in its rating and reputation over the last few years so they are heading in the right direction..or were!
And I am not opposed to the sale of the land and redevelopemnt on the buxton lane site however I want them to do it in a socially responsible way as befits ANY educational establishment... its not a business regardless of what people try and claim.. its a community facility that has more than a basic responsibility to OUR children.
Then theres the other issue.. has it been confirmed without a doubt that any money raised is definitely going to be used to redevelop buxton lane.. or are we maybe going to see the demise of that and then have NO educational facilities beyond 16?
I like this post, and agree with Lisa ..... I actually initially voted for " I dont mind " on the poll on this website, ... I tried to slope past the MIA tent on Market St in my supermarket uniform attire last week ( my second job ) .... and didnt escape ;D ... but all for the right reasons . . I wasnt hissed or booed at :) ( im teasing )
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Lisa, I agree that a college's quality and reputation is about more than its facilities. That said, I used to work in education before I retired. The last college I worked at (not in this area) moved into completely new buildings while I was there. It was a transformation. Student applications shot up, staff and student morale improved, the quality of teaching improved because good staff wanted to come and work there. It made a huge difference, and I have no doubt that it will be the same at camsfc if this scheme goes ahead.
Re becoming a governor, if my experience is anything to go by, the camsfc governors will have something like a 'search committee' whose job it is to identify suitable new governors, and ensure that the governing body keeps an appropriate balance of expertise in its membership. There's nothing to stop anyone writing to the clerk to governors and offering their services, but it's a long-term process, involving succession planning for when existing governors reach the end of their term of office, so don't expect anything to happen quickly.
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To my knowledge there are at least two college governors who live in Marple. But perhaps they also don't 'come from Marple'.
Which two Governors live in Marple Harry? If you listen to the video David says that none of the Governors LIVE in Marple. He doesn't use the words "come from" in the "clever" way that you suggest. So he believes that none of them live here - do you know better?
I was quoting Howard's post, Mark. If what you say is true then he has misquoted David Hoyle.
I have no intention of naming anyone on a public forum, as that would expose them to harrassment from those that believe the misinformation that is rife about this affair.
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I do feel that some people are being a little harsh on the College. Like it or not (and obviously most don't), the College leadership (Governors, etc) have a legal duty to do what is best for their constituents, ie the Students[/size]. And whilst you can make arguments about how a supermarket will affect the quality of life for Marple based students, ultimately it comes down to how much money they can get to redevelop the land and buildings they have left.[/color]
It's a pity that Cheadle and Marple (or Ridge Danyers as it was calling itself then) didn't apply itself to this or around 7 years ago when it had dug itself into a financial hole due to its own stupidity and SMBC threatened to pull the plug on them. The "re-branding" of the college left students in limbo and at least one local company, which had been providing services to the college and its students and had put a lot of money into accomodating them, in a mess. Fortunately, this company recovered but I wonder how many other local concerns were less lucky.