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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: sooty2 on March 22, 2009, 11:30:34 PM
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What on earth is going on at seventeen windows? Such a familiar landmark ruined by the mad axe men. The beauty of the whole road to the top of Dan bank is being ruined by tree felling. I appreciate some of it is needed for the road strenghthening, But it all seems so drastic and premature. It looks like we could have walked or drove through the Dan bank tree tunnel for another sring/summer unless they start work very soon, which I doubt very much! Who ever ticked the yes box for the carnage at seventeen windows has ruined an area much photographed in the past for its history. What I call the gateway to Marple has gone forever, What a pity.
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You have taken the words right off my keyboard, sooty2!! It's just awful to see what's happening there.
:(
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I think the work at 17 windows is entirely unrelated to the work on Dan Bank - I would have guessed that the work at 17 windows is simply the new owners rebuilding the garden
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I know the 17 windows work and the dan Bank tree felling are not connected.Its just that the natural beauty of the area has changed for the worse, I thought planning consent was put in place to to protect buildings and their surroundings. wonder what happened in this case then?
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It looks like some sort of retaining wall is being built?
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Whatever it is, it is pretty substantial judging by the quantity of steel reinforcement waiting to be put in. However, let's not jump to conclusions, it could all be attractive once it is finished. Shudder to think what cost is involved, though!!
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By looking at the pile driver and metal strengthening rods looks like it could be the foundations being laid for a second building. Unfortunately the planning application would be lodged against Offerton and not Marple. Anyone any contacts to find out if any applications have been made?
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DC/027240
That was the last application I have found in Autumn 2007 for a side extention
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It is interesting that Seventeen Windows is described by the council as a building of Local Interest. Everyone I have spoken to is shocked at the monstrosity it has become and everyone in the Stockport Planning department should be deeply ashamed of the changes they have approved. If someone wanted a modern interpretation of an old house, why didn't they just build a new one?
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I honestly thought that it was work being done to reduce the bottle neck coming in to marple from Offerton where the traffic going stright on up to Marple use to stop the left turning traffic towards Bredbury. Obviously I was mistaken! But I do aggree with everyone about the whole area looking rather sad for it's self these days :-\
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I believe that the work in progress is to provide a driveway for the existing house. Because of the position on the bend he has to have a drive through type of affair to overcome the visibilty problem. Because of retaining walls etc it has to have piles driven into the ground, expensive but it seems that this isn't a problem.
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I assumed it was going to be a drive way too, because access to and from the house is an absolute nightmare ( according to the estate agents when it was up for sale last time )
I dont think it looks too bad, but its what we know about it, I know when them huuuuge staples went in the front of it , the back of it falling down etc it seems to have been an endless money pit
My youngest is glad its been done up, he was convinced a witch lived there , in his words it was really spooky !
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Whatever it is it has certainly changed the whole vista. Not necessarily for the better.
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I like it, at least the person who has the house is making use of it!! It's better than not being used. I would have done the same if it was my house, Land scape it and make a drive. ::)
Think of it this way how would you like it if someone started a forum on your house saying that they don't like what you have spent lots on. >:(
WHO EVER HAS 17 WINDOWS GOOD FOR YOU, CARRY ON, YOU ARE DOING AN EXCILANT JOB!! ;D
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I like it, at least the person who has the house is making use of it!! It's better than not being used. I would have done the same if it was my house, Land scape it and make a drive. ::)
Think of it this way how would you like it if someone started a forum on your house saying that they don't like what you have spent lots on. >:(
WHO EVER HAS 17 WINDOWS GOOD FOR YOU, CARRY ON, YOU ARE DOING AN EXCILANT JOB!! ;D
100% agree with you TT. All the people on this page are saying what an eyesore it is now, lets not cast the vote until the owner has finished. Is it not better than a run down hole falling apart at the seams, lets not forget this is what happened to Marple Hall now look at what it is LOST FOR EVER.
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Does any one know what is being built at Seventeen Windows Dan Bank?
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Alfred, I've moved your enquiry here, into the topic that is already being discussed.
I must agree that it is unreasonable to criticise the landscape works until they are finished. A well landscaped garden may well enhance the approach to Marple for the better, especially once any planting has had chance to mature and blend in. Let's hope so anyway.
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Thankyou mark for agreeing with me xx Who ever has bought the house must have quite a bit of money behind them, it must have cost them a bomb. 8)
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"how would you like it someone started a forum about your house that you had spent a lot of money on" How very childish, This post was about the flora and fauna and natural beauty of the area that has been lost, the building site is secondary! I and no other member of the marple forum will live long enough to see the seventeen windows and Dan Bank area return to its former glory. Long live Leylandii for a quick fix.
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"how would you like it someone started a forum about your house that you had spent a lot of money on" How very childish, This post was about the flora and fauna and natural beauty of the area that has been lost, the building site is secondary! I and no other member of the marple forum will live long enough to see the seventeen windows and Dan Bank area return to its former glory. Long live Leylandii for a quick fix.
Sooty2 I have to disagree with you there, from 17 windows down to the lights at dooley lane looks so messy, from a very bad road to the verges that are just a litter trap, hopefully they [17 windows owners] will make there property something for everyone in Marple to be hold there heads up for.
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Its better than been left to rot away! :-X
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"how would you like it someone started a forum about your house that you had spent a lot of money on" How very childish, This post was about the flora and fauna and natural beauty of the area that has been lost, the building site is secondary! I and no other member of the marple forum will live long enough to see the seventeen windows and Dan Bank area return to its former glory. Long live Leylandii for a quick fix.
critisize when its finished .
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Taken from Stockport's Dan Bank web site:-
Work is currently taking place on the northern side of Marple Road at the junction where Marple Road meets Offerton Road. The work involves widening the footpath which goes along the front of the property known locally as 17 Windows. The widening of the footpath will then provide better access between Marple Hall Drive and the Shearwater Road area for pedestrians.
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Is marple hall drive and shearwater drive near seventeen windows .just checked on google earth dont look right .
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Nowhere near as most marple residents probably know. Oh no ! not another mystery.
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If this were to make any sense surely they must mean creating a continuous pavement between Hilltop Drive and Shearwater Drive, in other words all the way from the top of Dan Bank down the hill and back up the other side (past 17 Windows) to near the bus stop at the top of Marple Old Road. Amazing how a few words can cause so much confusion! I'll be watching develoments with renewed interest :-\
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How can such ill informed twaddle go to print ,from a so called reliable source, beats me, anyone agree!
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I really hope that one day in the future, maybe 5 years, maybe 10, that you'll drive from Offerton with your children and pull up at the lights at 17 Windows and say " That house has such an indelible mark on Marple's history, and if it wasn't for the present owners you'd've not have had the same banner to welcome you home that I'd've had for the last 30-40 years....did you know 2 centuries ago people used to sit in the loft and weave silk....yeah.... you think that's good wait till I show you the remains of the other textile buildings around here.... "
I don't know about you but 17 windows and the sweep up through Dan Bank and it's 'tunnel' of trees* has always welcomed me home, and I would like to congratulate the owners of 17 Windows for giving the building a new lease of life. And any of you lot who think they've spoiled things by putting an extension on the side and knocked down a few trees to build a drive want to think about Marple Hall, Stone Row, Woodville,the Jolly Sailor and any number of historic buildings that no-one could be arsed with. Please, there are so many beautiful parts of Marple; but even in my short lifetime we've lost so so many that it really is so sad that people can be arguing over the renovation of what is such a landmark, such a homecoming building as 17 windows; and I for one would rather see an extension, a bit of rendering and a drive way than lose another of Marple's historic buildings.
But hey, I'm probably living in the past - let's just let them all fall to rack n' ruin and ....um oh yeah and once we've got rid of it we'll build another 6 Barratt homes there.
* that tunnel seems to have widened, much to my chagrin.
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my 2 pennieth worth..
it was a historic house b4 ..but vile and horrible and tatty and knackered and messy.. didnt want to lose it but.....
and now its quite modern looking thing... smart and attractive and open
isnt it great that old things can be reinvented and continued. Isnt that why old buildings in hte past have been able to continue and exist to present day? The work is of a high standard so that house is here for the next generation or 2 unless the council buy it to knock it down!!
the excavation work... Wow.. so exciting :) Kids love it!! makes the junction so much more open and light... And note they havent removed all the trees... its been done with care.. whoever owns the house cares for it and the area... I reckon it will look great when its finished and will be a vast improvement. though I expect it will need wearing in a bit B4 it blends
Not all new things are bad and not all historic things are gorgeous or worth keeping ! Not all change is bad...
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How can such ill informed twaddle go to print ,from a so called reliable source, beats me, anyone agree!
Who Are you refering to .
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Sorry Amazon, I am refering to the Stockport Dan bank website as mentiond by Tony Jones and the newsletter 5 update recieved thruogh the door yesterday.Please refer to admin post on april 8th.
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I don't know who owns the house, but I think it looks great, and I wish them well. I don't envy them living near such a busy junction, but good luck to them.
Don't you think we should draw line under this particular topic? The Dan Bank issue is quite another thing.
Cheers, Barbara
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I really hope that one day in the future, maybe 5 years, maybe 10, that you'll drive from Offerton with your children and pull up at the lights at 17 Windows and say " That house has such an indelible mark on Marple's history, and if it wasn't for the present owners you'd've not have had the same banner to welcome you home that I'd've had for the last 30-40 years....did you know 2 centuries ago people used to sit in the loft and weave silk....yeah.... you think that's good wait till I show you the remains of the other textile buildings around here.... "
I don't know about you but 17 windows and the sweep up through Dan Bank and it's 'tunnel' of trees* has always welcomed me home, and I would like to congratulate the owners of 17 Windows for giving the building a new lease of life. And any of you lot who think they've spoiled things by putting an extension on the side and knocked down a few trees to build a drive want to think about Marple Hall, Stone Row, Woodville,the Jolly Sailor and any number of historic buildings that no-one could be arsed with. Please, there are so many beautiful parts of Marple; but even in my short lifetime we've lost so so many that it really is so sad that people can be arguing over the renovation of what is such a landmark, such a homecoming building as 17 windows; and I for one would rather see an extension, a bit of rendering and a drive way than lose another of Marple's historic buildings.
But hey, I'm probably living in the past - let's just let them all fall to rack n' ruin and ....um oh yeah and once we've got rid of it we'll build another 6 Barratt homes there.
* that tunnel seems to have widened, much to my chagrin.
;D clap clap clap
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Hero Member
Posts: 721
Re: Seventeen Windows
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2009, 01:50:41 PM » Quote
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Whatever it is it has certainly changed the whole vista. Not necessarily for the better
I dont agree, I think its going to look great when its finished :)
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What on earth happened?! What did they do to the scapping they did! It a big pile of rubble again!!!!!! :-[
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Seems as though they do a load of work, have a rest then do another, or maybe something else??????
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the paintwork on the front of the house looks good
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What did they do to the scapping they did! :-[
What's scapping? ???
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I mean land scaping, Sorry ;D
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I started this topic, But as the leaves get greener, the whole area looks sadder.I rest my case.
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I honestly don't understand how you feel that way Sooty
The house was falling apart before work was started, I think its looking great, and it isn't even finished yet, what would you prefer, looking at a house that would eventually fallen to even more rack and ruin as you come into Marple , or a house that someone has taken the time ( no matter how long ) to make good, make it liveable and which I think is going to be an attractive property once finished .
The landscaping isn't even finished yet, so are your judgements not a little premature ?
I don't see how your case is rested ... just yet !
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Rachel, If you read my original post, it was about the whole vista. The trees and shrubbery not so much the house. It is so stark , bare and uninteresting. I know the council have a lot to answer for with the pavement widening. That area would be green and lush by this time of year blending in with Dan Bank. I think it looks awful and will never be the same or anything like it was when nature planted it. I now refer to it as, One Tree Hill !
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the paintwork on the front of the house looks good
can someone persuade them to paint the original windows on as in [ file 2208== 2831] virtual tour of marple
would look ok if done right . i wonder if the owners are aware of all the interest that is being shown on this forum . come on somebody tell them . lets have feed back from them .
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I just think they did all that work leveling it out and then covered it again, its a shame :-[
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But Sooty, the work isnt completed, I think its unfair to judge untill the work is done .
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I know I have said it before, but I think we should let this matter rest until the work is finished, and at least the owners have probably saved a piece of local history from complete oblivion. Good luck to them!
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Barbara, I tried to rest this case seven posts back. You are obviously bored by the subject,but upto the present time 1368 people have been interested enough to keep reading "Seventeen Windows".
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Being a new member to the site I have read with intrest the comments regarding seventeen windows and as a Marple person born and bred I would like to say well done to Sooty2 (strange name) for their intrest in seventeen windows. I agree with her it is an absolute disgrace and it has one wondering just what the planning department was thinking about when they allowed what looks like such ridicules plans to be agreed. Or did they ?? I am sure other readers noted when the front of the building split in two and it needed pinning together with Huge steel clips. Now I am no building expert but even I know that when that happens its more than likely caused by the removal of a retaining wall or support, so WHY DIDN'T THE BUILDERS OR INDEED THE PLANNING DEPT KNOW!!! Prior to the distruction of the building and the surrounding trees and historic Anderson shelter the same Marple family had lived there for generations. So I applaud you Sooty 2 for your informed and interesting comments.
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Being a new member to the site I have read with intrest the comments regarding seventeen windows and as a Marple person born and bred I would like to say well done to Sooty2 (strange name) for their intrest in seventeen windows. I agree with her it is an absolute disgrace and it has one wondering just what the planning department was thinking about when they allowed what looks like such ridicules plans to be agreed. Or did they ?? I am sure other readers noted when the front of the building split in two and it needed pinning together with Huge steel clips. Now I am no building expert but even I know that when that happens its more than likely caused by the removal of a retaining wall or support, so WHY DIDN'T THE BUILDERS OR INDEED THE PLANNING DEPT KNOW!!! Prior to the distruction of the building and the surrounding trees and historic Anderson shelter the same Marple family had lived there for generations. So I applaud you Sooty 2 for your informed and interesting comments.
Like so many people have said already please keep your comments to your self about what is happening to the property until they have FINISHED and then lets pass comment on the works. Yes it looks disgusting at the moment but they are not finshed yet, it must be better than it was with no one living in it a few years back when it was close to falling down.
It does look like they are going to have a drive in drive out, driveway and the banking could be a possible alpine garden (or similar) and if kept nice with no high trees or fences would be a really nice "gate" into Marple for everyone to enjoy.
So what that an anderson shelter has been removed I will build you one in your back garden Miss Marple if you want all you need is a big piece of wriggly tin and a big hole. Nothing of special intrest lost there.
I will agree with you though Miss Marple re Marple hall and the royal family but that's a differnet story.
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There was an anderson shelter? How cool is that, you don't think about things like that now a days, and in marple! WOW I wonder how many other propertys have anderson shelters around here? :o
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I think that everyone has a right to comment on any given topic whilst others retain the right no to read it. So I stand by my original review and feel possible more right than most to comment given that I live about a 2 min walk from it and see on a daily basis the devastation caused to the immediate are where I live. Its my opinion that an attitude of lets wait and see what happens has sadly resulted in many historic building being knocked down.. Take Woodville for an example what was a gift to the people of Marple and served as a local community elderly peoples home was sold off historic furniture fittings and all. The chandeliers, grand fire places and many other irreplaceable memorabilia were sold by the American company and shipped over to America for sale.
Seventeen windows is yet just another place of interest that has been allowed to perish. The building should have had a protection applied due to the intrest which has always surrounded it. But no it went to auction and has passed into several owners hands since that time. What we are seeing is not in my opinion a restoration on seventeen windows, it serves no purpose only to turn it into a modern house. I can not blame the present owners if they thought they could make a profit. I do although blame the town planners for not being proactive in seeing that building regs were adhered too (crack in front of building)
To see what should have happened to seventeen windows we should look at what was once the old pub on Dooley Lane. The present owners have preserved the building and kept it in keeping with its historic value.
And finally re the Anderson shelter at Seventeen windows. Yes I would love you to put one in my garden if you could bring with it the smells and memorabilia there was in the one I played in many years ago in what was the beautiful gardens at SEVENTEEN WINDOWS!!!!
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Thanks for your support Miss Marple. How naughty of me to mention Seventeen Windows and the immediate area around it still looking sad,sad,sad !
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Does anyone know when the pavement widening in this area will be completed? It seems to be dragging on and on and looks an eyesore.
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Quote Miss Marple ...
I think that everyone has a right to comment on any given topic whilst others retain the right no to read it. So I stand by my original review and feel possible more right than most to comment given that I live about a 2 min walk from it and see on a daily basis the devastation caused to the immediate are where I live. Its my opinion that an attitude of lets wait and see what happens has sadly resulted in many historic building being knocked down.
am I missing something here, the building is being renovated, not knocked down!! Had it not had the repairs done to it, then what you quote " an attitude of lets wait and see what happens, has sadly resulted in many historic buildings being knocked down " .. would probably be a certainty . .. but work is being done, and I think it will look great .
Historic, yes, the building is/ was ... but surely you could even see for yourself ( as you say, you only live two minutes away ) the building was falling into rack and ruin , would you have preferred it to stand as it was for sentimental reasons ??
And as we know you live two minutes away we are sure that you will know that the original access to the property is just dangerous , and anyone with any sense would change it .
As for you having more rights to comment because you live TWO minutes away rather than some others of us who may live two and a half, maybe even three minutes away! , I would say unless you had stuck your hand in your pocket and purchased the property yourself , then your rights to comment are exactly the same as anybody else who chooses to read , contribute or anything else , positive or negative to the topic and no more !
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Have you any idea of what the original building looked like. Did you know that the same family lived there for generations up until its sale and guess what ??? I did try to purchase it twice. Once before it went to auction and the second time before it was sold to the third buyer. And believe me I WOULD have kept it in character of its surroundings. Secondly have you not noticed that the work on the house has stopped, given that you live as near as me you could not have failed to notice that all the recent work has been carried out by SMBC not the owners of the property. Oh dear looks like I may have a third chance of purchasing it !!!
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so why didnt you manage to buy it?
and why do you think SMBC are doing the work?
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If you have a third chance of buying it, I suggest going for it, it might stop all this distress of what is happening to it for you ... and of course, it will definitely give you the RIGHT TO COMMENT MORE THAN MOST about the subject, because unlike the two minutes living away from Seventeen windows that gave you more rights than us other mere mortals that like to post on the subject , the property will be yours to tell us what to do with any comments we have !
Good luck
:-*
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now then ladies! put your handbags down!!!
Lets just wait and see what the end result is shall we.....?
I have lived in Marple all my life and I can honestly say 17 windows has always been a focal point coming into Marple, but over the years it has been an eyesore! I must admit I prefer the new look to the old and the work being carried out at the moment will benefit the owner gaining access to his/her property safely. Yes some people don't like change but sometimes it is necessary, as was the work needed on 17 windows.
Does it really matter who lives the closest or the longest??? Honestly!
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I might just add that all the relevent planning application and supporting documents are available on the Council's planning database.
This provides you with the proposed scheme and any conditions etc..
Details of Planning Application - DC/027240
direct link http://planning.stockport.gov.uk/PlanningData/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=27475 (http://planning.stockport.gov.uk/PlanningData/AcolNetCGI.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=27475)
Link to the documents http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC027240 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC027240)
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I think everyone needs to re read all the posts regarding this subject ? It appears most of you have lost the thread or indeed the plot Where is that Sooty 2 When we need sense and sensibility ????
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Don't worry Miss Marple, we're all avid readers of this topic - a record 2361 views (and counting!) testify to its superb entertainment value..... ;D
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I think everyone needs to re read all the posts regarding this subject ? It appears most of you have lost the thread or indeed the plot Where is that Sooty 2 When we need sense and sensibility ????
:o
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well said tina
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Tina wont be able to comment on your Kind comments Heather, she is currently under lock and key under my stairs , untill she comes to her senses , and thinks twice about telling her favourite In law to put her handbag down !!
if you see her posting, let me know, it means she has escaped !!
;)
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I might just add that all the relevent planning application and supporting documents are available on the Council's planning database.
Those links to the plans were very interesting tricky. Have you noticed that these confirm that the building now has 18 windows (including the veloxes in the roof) rather than 17. Bit of a shame that, would have been a nice touch to keep in tune with the name ::)
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It is interesting that Seventeen Windows is described by the council as a building of Local Interest. Everyone I have spoken to is shocked at the monstrosity it has become and everyone in the Stockport Planning department should be deeply ashamed of the changes they have approved. If someone wanted a modern interpretation of an old house, why didn't they just build a new one?
Yes JCC, it looks like its been air-lifted from a suburban Barratt estate and dropped in the corner of a Marple field. It states in the planning consent the side extension should be built in the same materials as the original building, Thats fine but the original bricks have been covered in that awful rendering. So we now have a mis-match. I hope the rendering that looks very thin cracks and falls off! and once again reveals itself as the red brick Seventeen Windows.
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I hope the rendering that looks very thin cracks and falls off! and once again reveals itself as the red brick Seventeen Windows.
:o :'(
hmmmm , tad unfair dont you think ?
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A lot of posts in this thread are unfair.
Seventeen Windows is a prominent landmark but it is also a private dwelling, not a public building.
Why don't some of you who have criticised so eagerly post your addresses?
Would you be happy with public criticism of your property?
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If the rendering did fall off, it would show the huge crack and staples holding the wall together - hardly an improvement!!
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Lots of old buildings are held together with ironwork, it can be quite an attractive feature. We only have to look at buildings in Chester and york. I think just a general tidying up and some beautiful be-spoke windows and of course the necessary modernisations required for todays living would have been enough to keep the building recognisable as the cottage we see in historical photographic libraries. imagine buying a house to find out that the rendering is a cover up of a large crack. I suspect this is what will happen when it almost certainly goes up for sale again.I may be wrong, but whoever becomes the occupants I hope they will not do anything else to it other than ehnance its exterior.
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Sooty, did you see the huge staples in the front of the house before the rendering went up ?
and answer me seriously, if you did, did you really think it was attractive ?
Building stapled together in Chester to you may look attractive ( its personal opinion of course ) , but personaly I dont think Seventeen windows could ( and did not ) have looked attractive had the staples been on show ( now matter what they were made from ) .
I would have rendered it too ..... ( ducks head ... ouch ;) )
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I was trying to give directions on how the best way was to get to my office. I informed the couple who were not familiar with the area that when they got to Seventeen Windows they should just carry on up the hill. The couple were a little confused at my directions and said "Do you mean the house with the ski slope at the side" ??? LOVE IT !!! ;D
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Don't know if that was a joke by admin re the amount of windows IE 18 in the house that is referred too as Seventeen Windows The 17 windows were not in the building that remains, they were in the part of the building that burnt down. Old pictures only show 16 because there is a tree slightly blocking out the seventeenth window. The windows were all at the top in a straight line right across so that there was plenty of light for the workers who worked there as part of the cottage industry. ;)
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I'm aware of why it was called 17 Windows, and for anyone who isn't, take a look at this image http://visitmarple.co.uk/photos/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=11
All I was saying is that if it were mine and I were carrying out the alterations I would have made the number of windows fit in with the existing name.
The building has only been a shadow of it's original self for many years, since the weaving workshop was lost to fire. Looking at this picture with fresh eyes it looks to me like the place that the existing building was stapled together recently before being rendered over is in line with the join between the house section and the weaving workshop. It would appear that the right half was rebuilt as a mirror image of the left after the fire but probably the brickwork join was not done properly, which is why it came apart and needed stapling.
To be honest I don't think the house itself has been attractive for a very long time and it certainly doesn't retain much of it's orginal history, which is why it's not listed. It surely would have been if not for that fire.
I think once the landscaping is finished and planting matured a bit, and the property is being used, it will look better than it did before.
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I was always told that it was called 17 windows, because thats how many children the guy had. Is this true? I also got told not all of them lived? I did always think that was a lot of "wit woo" going on in that house. ;) Even for back then.
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I did always think that was a lot of "wit woo" going on in that house. ;) Even for back then.
Lol 'wit woo' now thats one way to describe it!
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I was always told that it was called 17 windows, because thats how many children the guy had. Is this true? I also got told not all of them lived? I did always think that was a lot of "wit woo" going on in that house. ;) Even for back then.
:o
Just going around my house now counting the windows and starting to get a bit worried .... by rights, I should only have two windows !!!!
I shall tell my husband that confession is good for the soul !!
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Thats what I got told, he would put a new window in for every new child, kind of glad they stopped at 17!
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I was talking to my husband this morning and he thinks that about seven children died in the fire at seventeen windows ...
Now as for HIS thoughts on what Seventeen windows looks like now , I wish I had never asked !! He thinks it looks dreadful, cant believe they got permission to do the things they had , AND says there are ways and means to support a building without huge staples in the front ... a lecture of how they did it in the old days followed, and how that way could have been done now ... to then a discussion about similar projects being approved at his work place ...
Im not swayed ... honest Im not !!! :P
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tbh i think that work in progress is jus that, and people with nothing better to do than put other peoples hard work on a web forum an complian and moan about it without seing any final drawings of the property in question is jus down right rude and ignorant. me i love building work in progress its shows what people can do, when all that could of happened to 17 windows could of been a bull dozer.i think marple residents should wait an then be greatful for a truely historic ( historic in the eyes of older marple residents ) building to be renovated an left still standing for all to admire.
i will wait but i dont think ill be suprised when it all turns out for the best.......
:D
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I was talking to my husband this morning and he thinks that about seven children died in the fire at seventeen windows ...
Now as for HIS thoughts on what Seventeen windows looks like now , I wish I had never asked !! He thinks it looks dreadful, cant believe they got permission to do the things they had , AND says there are ways and means to support a building without huge staples in the front ... a lecture of how they did it in the old days followed, and how that way could have been done now ... to then a discussion about similar projects being approved at his work place ...
Im not swayed ... honest Im not !!! :P
Come on board Mr Panther, you seem to know your stuff.
Just moved your bit out of the quote block Sooty2!
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Passed Seventeen windows today. Work has started again after many weeks of inactivity. metal cages being filled with random size stone to make walling. How very modern, Would look good next to a contemporary building. There must be a new build close by, perhaps its behind some trees. Yes I know sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
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metal cages being filled with random size stone to make walling.
It's used to make a retaining structrure actually, to stop the bank sliding down into the road. 12 months after the work has finished you won;t even know it's therre
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Thanks for that NBT, I do hope so. I have seen cages filled with stone on riverbanks and used as walling with rock plants growing down it.
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I dread to think of the cost involved, but it is beginning to look as if the completed project will be rather good. It is really taking shape now.
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I would imagine that you are paying for it as part of the pavement widening project. It looks like a fort at present! ::)
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wonder if we are now going to "discuss" whether we like the brick wall.. should it really be stone ? :)
not that I m stirring at all ;)
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I would imagine that you are paying for it as part of the pavement widening project.
If you really wanted to stir things up you might want to think about this comment. When Sooty2 first made it I thought "don't be daft, that can't be right!" but I spoke to someone last night with information to suggest that it is absolutely correct. I was told that the council are paying for ALL the landscape works as part of the pavement widening scheme. That would seem to be a bit of impressive negotiation for a thin strip of land :o
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I would imagine the cost of the groundworks will eventually cost more than the value of the property. Labour,plant hire and materials are very expensive, there are a lot of men on the job and it seems to be taking forever. Things just dont add up if this is being paid for by the owner. Its like buying a 100k house and spending 150k on the garden! And NO Lisa i dont think we want to discuss the walls or maybe some people do just for the hell of it.parts of this topic have gone way of track with stupid comments. Thanks Mark for bringing it back in line. >:(
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I could rise to the bait and point out deciding something as a "stupid comment" depends on your point of view and how opinionated you are (and is actually quite rude!) however I wont
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Well i would like to flippin well discuss the the fact that we are paying for it !!! Where is our MP and Co when you need them :-\ It would be my view that the monies spent on ground work and so called landscaping would have been better spent on purchasing the Pink House and using it as a visitor centre . Although there may be a deferred payment attached to Seventeen Windows if the owner lacked the immediate funds needed. UPDATE :o I decided to contact the Highways Dept who inform me that it is true the have acquired land 2Mtr from the owner of Seventeen Windows and because they had to take down the original wall in order to widen the pavement they then had to undertake the work so that the banking did not slide. I have asked for a break down of the costs but was informed that this is not usual practice but if I write in and request the total cost of the work undertaken they will provide it ::)WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!!
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I would imagine that you are paying for it as part of the pavement widening project.
If you really wanted to stir things up you might want to think about this comment. When Sooty2 first made it I thought "don't be daft, that can't be right!" but I spoke to someone last night with information to suggest that it is absolutely correct. I was told that the council are paying for ALL the landscape works as part of the pavement widening scheme. That would seem to be a bit of impressive negotiation for a thin strip of land :o
Admin Your coments are spot on the councill are paying for the work
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Has anyone asked the question why the pavement needed to be widened in the first pace,and if it is being widened so that it can be used by pedestrians safely has anyone thought that to get to the widened pavement you need to cross 3 lanes of heavy traffic without there being any kind of pedestrian lights on the Dan Bank junction. Or are we going to have new traffic lights, with a 30 sec green man every 3 Min's, should do wonders for the traffic flow in the rush hour,
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I don't think the pavement is being widened, my guess is that they're increasing the carriageway to 2 lanes bweteen the two sets of traffic lights and needed to move the pavement
It's strange, it looks like nothing happens for ages then suddenly loads gets done. Yesterday it looked like a building site, this morning it looks like a garden having work done.
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It does say the pavement at the front of the proprety known as seventeen windows is being widened on the Stockport Dan Bank website.
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;) Forgot to say that when i spoke to the council i was informed that there is to be a pedestrian crossing near to seventeen windows. Maybe its so the house owner can get his car out ;D Only Joking !!!!! Really surprised that nobody on this forum seems concerned about the issue of this work being undertaken at our expense. Do you think we have purchased the new net curtains as well! ha ha Only Joking again! my god I am on form this evening !!!!
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Miss Marple - did you have a drink last night? ;) :) ;)
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....it is true the have acquired land 2Mtr from the owner of Seventeen Windows and because they had to take down the original wall in order to widen the pavement they then had to undertake the work so that the banking did not slide.
Just so it's clear, are you saying the house owner should have paid for this work?
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Are they also going to extend the pavement widening on the uphill side of the house - i.e. next to the field. It is so narrow there that it would be impossible to walk on it in safety. It would also improve visibility for drivers coming from the Stockport direction.
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Yes Barbara they are going to widen the pavement all the way up to Hill Top Drive. This will surely require more costly land purchase and scaping from the house on the corner and the farm, there should of been some public consultation.Did the people you spoke to Miss Marple mention this?I found this information in the Dan Bank newsletter in March/April issue. I have noticed its very rare to see people using any of this pavement apart from Marple hall pupils.It all seems a very costly exercise if it is mainly for them. Lets face it they should have road sense at 11 plus. Oh I forgot to mention the crossing, now that really is the icing on the cake ::)
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Oh yes Sooty 2 I am aware of the pavement proposed widening. I am Also aware that the huge slope that had to be stopped from sliding was a result of one of the owners digging out to put in what looked like a HUGE!! cess pit or water tank. Instead of disposing of the building rubble it was just placed at the side. Informed people and locals will no doubt remember the Anderson shelter which I as a small child played in. Well it was on flat land and not on a hill, if the Anderson shelter was still in its original place it would be 15ft in the air. The original gardens which I and many other local people will remember were flat!!!! Remember the building what was the seventeen windows (lots of pictures on this site) before it burnt down? Well believe it or not, that was built on flat land and formed part of the original building. Now!!! unless they had some fantastic building engineers around that time who could build a annex attached to a house on a 15ft hill ??? I for one can only assume that the land was a lot flatter . Lets all look at the picture's and then maybe we will all have an informed opinion. NEVER IN MY 52 years WAS THE HILL SO NEAR TO THE ROAD !!!!
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Well i'm quite happy they're sorting out the pavement along Dan Bank. It's about time. I think a crossing on that Dan Bank stretch is a brilliant idea. Have you ever tried to cross that junction? You have to be pretty spry. Too much of our land is given over to motor cars already. I can get over having to wait a little longer in the rush hour if on my day off I can cross Dan Bank safely on foot. As for the council paying for it, its certainly not the stupidest thing they've ever paid for. Look at those horse/cycle barriers along the middlewood way and on the woodland path near seven stiles.....
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::) OH!!!! I bet you are not as happy as I am about the pedestrian crossing !! I am ecstatic ! No over the moon !!! I live at the top of Dan Bank and it is a nightmare getting off my drive! I will be pushing that flaming button all day ! In fact I may employ someone to just stand there and press it?? I feel I now have a mission in life, its to stop traffic coming into Marple and force them to take an alternative route. BRING IT ON SMBC !!!!! I will show you what conjestion is !! OH I AM EXCITED !!! People of Marple you will thank me for my one finger action !!!
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Why don't you talk to Marple Hall School? You might even get a Lollypop Lady outfit and a wage to boot ;D
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I don't think it will make it any easier to get out of anyones drive, just remember what happened when they put a green man on the lights at the old Jolly Sailor. It just caused bigger tail backs. However does anyone know exactly what is being proposed, is it a Green man phase at the Dan Bank lights, and if so is it at both sets of lights, or is it a totally separate Pelican crossing. If it is the latter where is it going to situated? Perhaps one of our councillors could respond, they must be in the know.
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Why don't you talk to Marple Hall School? You might even get a Lollypop Lady outfit and a wage to boot ;D
YES WHAT A FANTASTIC IDEA !! NOW WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT :P
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::) OH!!!! I bet you are not as happy as I am about the pedestrian crossing !! I am ecstatic ! No over the moon !!! I live at the top of Dan Bank and it is a nightmare getting off my drive! I will be pushing that flaming button all day ! In fact I may employ someone to just stand there and press it?? I feel I now have a mission in life, its to stop traffic coming into Marple and force them to take an alternative route. BRING IT ON SMBC !!!!! I will show you what conjestion is !! OH I AM EXCITED !!! People of Marple you will thank me for my one finger action !!!
Miss Marple You actually made me laugh out loud! that is so funny!
but seriously though to the person who said it's a big expence just for the Marple Hall students, Honestly!!! so you would really put traffic flow before children's safety??? As my child starts Marple Hall in September I would like to think his journey to school will be a safe one and I encourage him to cross safely!!! unfortunatley his route does not go down Dan bank but I'm sure many of his friends might and therefore might possibly use it to go to their house.
Remarks like that sould be kept to oneself and not put on a public forum! How would you feel if a child gets hurt now?
and getting back on topic of seventeen windows... I think it's looking great!
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I have noticed its very rare to see people using any of this pavement apart from Marple hall pupils.It all seems a very costly exercise if it is mainly for them. Lets face it they should have road sense at 11 plus.
this is the comment I'm talking about!! shame on you Sooty2
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I didn't mean the pavement up to Hill Top Drive - that is not too bad already. I meant alongside the field from Seventeen Windows up towards Offerton. The footpath is barely 18 inches wide there, and it is on a bad bend down to the traffic lights. I know not many people do walk down there - probably because it is so narrow! Maybe they would if it was improved.
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I have noticed its very rare to see people using any of this pavement apart from Marple hall pupils.It all seems a very costly exercise if it is mainly for them. Lets face it they should have road sense at 11 plus.
this is the comment I'm talking about!! shame on you Sooty2
Tina I think you are running away with my last comment. Of course i would not want children to be hurt, But when did this dangerous ??? issue become such a problem to require the pavements to be widened? Single file children! Single file still rings in my ears, but thats just common sense is it not?
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....it is true the have acquired land 2Mtr from the owner of Seventeen Windows and because they had to take down the original wall in order to widen the pavement they then had to undertake the work so that the banking did not slide.
Just so it's clear, are you saying the house owner should have paid for this work?
I would think it goes without saying that the owner should not have to pay. But it looks rather extravagant to me.I would rather him pay for that than me or us should I say?
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I have noticed its very rare to see people using any of this pavement apart from Marple hall pupils.It all seems a very costly exercise if it is mainly for them. Lets face it they should have road sense at 11 plus.
this is the comment I'm talking about!! shame on you Sooty2
Tina I think you are running away with my last comment. Of course i would not want children to be hurt, But when did this dangerous ??? issue become such a problem to require the pavements to be widened? Single file children! Single file still rings in my ears, but thats just common sense is it not?
Does common sense involve pushchairs or people in wheelchairs? National guidelines for footpaths suggest that 1.2m is the minimum to allow for use by a wheelchair user? Or do they belong in the road as they are in a wheeled vehicle? ???
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??? I have mentioned before that I live at top of Dan Bank and can tell you all in all honesty that if I see anyone walking up or down Dan Bank I automatically assume that their car has broken down and 99.9 %of the time it has. The pavement around Danbank/Seventeen Windows could be 100 ft wide but until we sort of the speed of traffic no pedestrian is safe. In the last 18months I have kept a log of accidents on this stretch of road. There has been 5 cars which due to speed have ended up in neighbours gardens. The bus shelter has been demolished 3 times due to cars racing down Dan Bank losing control and ending up on the opposite side of the road. One car was spun onto its roof as it tried to turn at Hilltop Drive by a car that had lost control coming in the opposite direction. A very young family were rescued by the emergency services when their car was shunted off the road by a car speeding up Dan Bank. There has been one cyclist one pedestrian and a motor bike knocked over by speeding cars,the list is endless its just becomes the norm to see an accident here. So everyone in my opinion is at risk walking on Dan Dank or around seventeen windows due to the speed of traffic which I have tried to get local Councillors and the police to do something about, but have been informed that because there has been no deaths as yet in the area is not a priority for speed cameras or the like. I hope I am not the first to have a speed camera dedicated to me when I stand at that crossing pressing that button.
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So what are we going to do Belly widen all the pavements by buying land or narrow the roads where its not possible to buy land? Ive just read that speeding is not an issue until theres a death, so what was the issue that required pavement widening from Seventeen Windows? Beats me, but somebody has got a landscaped garden and a fantastic wall out of it. i have walked to Wyevale garden centre many times with a childs pushchair and a dog, I really dont see the problem. ::) Why do people feel the need to Twist things?I have been accused in a roundabout way of being oppinionated rude and now discriminatory of which I am none. >:(Yes I have opinions like everyone, Good job Im thick skinned, all I did was start a topic about a building known as seventeen windows.
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So what are we going to do Belly widen all the pavements by buying land or narrow the roads where its not possible to buy land?
I would suspect that given the choice that is exactly what Stockport Council would do within reason. I'm not going to argue with any measure that could have a positive road safety benefit and protect the most vulnerable road users.
It would appear in this case the Council has acted on the opportunity to get the land for free and then deliver a suitable footpath. If its cost a few quid to build a few retaining walls then so be it. I'm sure that there are quite a few school children who walk to Marple Hall school each day that will certainly reap the benefit.
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!!!!!!!!! A FEW QUID !!!!!!!!!
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;) Don't take any notice Sooty 2 I think some of the replies you are getting are a little tongue in cheek. Everyone will have a fair idea of how much the work is costing. They are just joking with you don't rise to it. I am a informed person and I know for example there were 10 men there on Friday so just their wages alone would be a great expence. Then what we must remember is that they are not Council workers, the job would have gone out to tender and is now subcontracted out to a private company. What I would like to know is if they are rebuilding the wall why has so much money been spent on making it so much different that the original stone wall. Maybe the owner can request what he wants?? at our expence? So Sooty 2 believe me no-one on this site would truly believe that the work at Seventeen Windows is cost effective and that it really needed to be that elaborate! THEY ARE WINDING YOU UP ???? do not fall for it !!!!!!!!
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I am getting fed up with all this Hype about seventeen windows.
It looks to me like it is going to a very pleasant visual amenity and good look to the owners!
If they want to spend their money on the property, it is their business.
What I would really like to see is pressure put onto the owners of the chip shop at the entrance to Marple at the junction with Station Rd. That building does not seem to have had a lick of paint for the last ten years, the front looks like a spotted dalmatian, no pride there!. And as you are waiting at the traffic lights to go to Stockport, take a look at the beautiful visual effect there for the tourist.
Sorry an all that like!
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Think you may have missed what the hype about Seventeen Windows is ??? The owners are not paying !! We,the community charge people are! Hey maybe we should all club together and paint the chippy think we should put the council negotiators in charge they may strike a deal and do it in exchange for a portion of chips and gravy! Think you need to read all the posts re Seventeen Windows and then you may not be so understanding and sympathetic towards Seventeen fences Oh i mean Seventeen Windows owner who for a small amount of land and I MEAN SMALL !!!!! has had a complete make over of his garden, boundary fences and increased the value of his property at OUR EXPENCE !!!!!! The council have not just put back the retaining garden wall they have given it a complete make over. Now what I will say is that I take my hat off to the owner of Seventeen Windows because he/she must be one hell of a business person to strike up such a deal with the Highways Dept planning officer.
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i agree its Our money not well spent... the walls vile ( i know i was joking last time.. but this time it really is!!!) the house is great.. the gardens will be too i think
and its infuriating to know the money could have been better spent somewhere else
however its spent now!!! all the discussions in the world cant put it back the way it was
or get us a refund... and the house is saved so...
closure???
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I agree that it can't be put back but sorry someone is responsible for this waste of our money and I think it's about time our council representatives take their heads out of the sand and explain why this money has been spent on this major engineering project.
If they continue to remain silent on the issue I presume they are embarrassed by the whole thing, or there is more to this than meets the eye.
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Carrying on the discussion about how our money is being spent, I came back from holiday to find out what the recent roadworks at Otterspool were about. Putting in a pedestrian crossing for 50 yards of pavement that I have never seen anyone use (except on YF Show Days but did anyone tell the council the ground has changed?). Aaaaargh! Not such a major engineering project as seventeen windows by why?
Is the public sector so terrified of offering a below inflation increase in council tax (or heaven forbid a year on year reduction) that it has to dream up ever more elaborate and questionable ways to overspend? No that can't be it - or the roads would be fixed before these 2 "projects". I think there must be a prize, awarded to the group or individual who can come up with the most pointless expenditure to pass public procurement checks and balances....
Roll on 2010 for a formal boundary line to be hand painted on the ground around the area in indelible corporate colours (only for the colours to change in 2011, or the boundary to change post election...)
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Looking at the O.S. map, this is where the Etherow - Goyt Valley Way crosses Otterspool Rd. This will be used by quite a few walkers / cyclists going from Marple to Lower Bredbury - even more when the Connect2 Goyt Bridge is built there. So I approve.
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Well what can I say apart from the building Seventeen Windows, pales into insignificance in the shadow of that monstrosity of a landscaped garden. I said in an earlier posting that it looked like a fort. In my "opinionated" opinion it looks like a fort with a stockade on top :o. It is fast becoming an eyesore and tourist attraction. Who is responsible for this? Him or Her should untether their horse, ride off and rebuild it in a wild west theme park. It is not befitting an old farmhouse. the whole vista is ruined I cant believe this has happened >:( I have not had a great amount of support on this forum, especially from people telling me that the owners can spend their money as they wish. Im sure people will be shocked when they see it now or maybe not from past responses. Ill be watching out for them there injuns with their poison arrows, Yee Hah !
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actually really hate to say it but...agree with u!! looks naff :( cant imagine anything helping it "blend in" now...
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Initially I thought what a mess it was looking but decided to wait and see how things develop.
Sorry peeps, but I'm with sooty2 on this one!
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:-\ I thought i was on a forum with intelligent like minded people but it seems I am not. We have all ranted and raved about Seventeen Windows but I think its looking great. Having that many bill boards to display whats happening in the community, is a God send to Marple. No more pinning notices to trees to advertise car boot sales, carnivals , french markets or the like. No !! we have Bill Boards, its like living in LA ! We just need to strike a deal with the garden centre for lights and WOW !! So Sooty 2 I hope you fall off your horse (I would let everyone know if you did via the huge bill boards) and let my council spend my hard earned money on advertising space WELL DONE TO OUR FORWARD THINKING PLANNING DEPTMENT ??? Hey we could even have the first drive in movies in Marple we could use the fences as screens ? The Regent had better watch its back ! Just a thought ! could this be the eighth wonder !!!!
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Hey Miss marple didnt you know that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit! Oh im sure you do. Im not a stranger to it myself. according to some i am rude,oppioniated and by my own admission sarcastic but hey I didnt ruin the gateway to marple. I will speak to the stockport Express newspaper, see if they want to take some pictures for their historical archives. Before and after would be good. Im sure people from outside the area would be sickened by such a ruinisation of a treasured landmark.Where else would this happen? Its beyond comprehension. I think most people must be wearing a bag on their head like "Gone" an ex member of this forum. Shall some of us club together and buy some nice Impatiens ( Busy lizzies ) to enhance and add to its tackiness?Oops ! too much sarcasm I cant help myself.Oh and if you read this Miss marple I hope you fall off your horse too! Its probably many hands higher than mine.
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Sooty,
Don't worry about buying any plants I'm sure the council have got a landscaped gardener on standby, probably at our expense. Or it could possibly going to be used as an Adventure playground and that's why the pavement needed to be widened in the first place.
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Oh please dont give them anymore ideas Victor! There may be some unspent cash available. I can just see a mural on the white wall of the house incorporating the words " JUNGLE GYMS "I have accused people on this forum of making stupid comments, now im at it ;) But nothing would surprise me now >:(
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To get back to the issue of Seventeen Windows. I emailed one of our local councilors with the following;
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As you may be aware there is a long running discussion about the work being done at Seventeen Windows.
One of the frequent comments is about the cost, but no one has said what the actual cost is.
Are you, as a local councilor and under the freedom of information, able to find out how much the council is paying to have this work done and put an end to a lot of speculation.
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His reply was;
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Thank you for your message. Other than from yourself, I have received no communications either by letter, e-mail or orally from anyone about the work at Seventeen Windows. Neither I am aware of any discussions about it - long running or otherwise. I wonder if you are able to say who it is that is frequently commenting or speculating about the cost?
However, I have referred your message with its question in the last sentence to officers of the Council.
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He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
It will be interesting to see what answers, if any, come back, and when.
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I did say on this forum that I would write and ask about the cost. I was advised to do this by the head of the Highways dept when I phoned to get a verbal breakdown. I decided to wait until the work had finished before requesting the final costings because new things keep getting added. I have had a rethink now and i will also email tomorrow for the costing as the whole thing has gone well beyond the cost of a few foot of land. The whole thing is an utter eyesore and a waste of money, surely it has not passed planning regulations.
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He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
Well Marple has about 24,000 residents, and about six of them have been talking about it on this thread! The remaining 23,994 of us are holding our tongues and waiting until the work is finished before we make our minds up. However, I must say I have been quite shocked by some of the things which have been written here about the pavement widening. The idea that safeguarding the lives of kids walking to Marple Hall School is a 'waste of money' appalls me. >:(
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Best topic ever.
He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
The remaining 23,994 of us are holding our tongues and waiting until the work is finished before we make our minds up.
I couldn't agree more with this man.
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Well Marple has about 24,000 residents, and about six of them have been talking about it on this thread! The remaining 23,994 of us are holding our tongues and waiting until the work is finished before we make our minds up. However, I must say I have been quite shocked by some of the things which have been written here about the pavement widening. The idea that safeguarding the lives of kids walking to Marple Hall School is a 'waste of money' appalls me. >:(
Well said. Could not have put it better my self.
Just moved quote into box! - Admin
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I would personally pay for the pavements to be widened if !!!! it thought for one min it would stop the Mon-Fri school run with all the children being driven to school by parents or the like. This is getting boring now but I live at the top of Dan Bank and I can count on one hand the amount of children walking up the hill to school. I would need a flaming abacus to work out the amount of cars that speed up the hill dropping off and collecting students all hours of the day and evening. NB If we put the children that walk to and from school in a taxi there and back for the duration of there schooling it would not come anywhere near the cost of the work undertaken at Seventeen Windows. LETS KEEP IT REAL !!!!! ;D
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He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
Well Marple has about 24,000 residents, and about six of them have been talking about it on this thread! The remaining 23,994 of us are holding our tongues and waiting until the work is finished before we make our minds up. However, I must say I have been quite shocked by some of the things which have been written here about the pavement widening. The idea that safeguarding the lives of kids walking to Marple Hall School is a 'waste of money' appalls me. >:(
This forum has 316 members not 24000 and approx 130 of them have never posted. I cant be bothered counting how many people have posted on this subject, but its a lot more than six.
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Just had two replies form Councillor Shan Alexander and Councillor Chris Baker both of whom state that they were going to look into the matter and both remind me that Seventeen windows does come under Offerton. If I knew how to I would put their replies on the web site but IT is not my strong point. Both councillor's responded to my email very quickly and have said that they are making enquiries re the work at Seventeen Windows
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"how would you like it someone started a forum about your house that you had spent a lot of money on" How very childish, This post was about the flora and fauna and natural beauty of the area that has been lost, the building site is secondary! I and no other member of the marple forum will live long enough to see the seventeen windows and Dan Bank area return to its former glory. Long live Leylandii for a quick fix.
Sooty2 I have to disagree with you there, from 17 windows down to the lights at dooley lane looks so messy, from a very bad road to the verges that are just a litter trap, hopefully they [17 windows owners] will make there property something for everyone in Marple to be hold there heads up for.
Well you certainly got that quote correct Neil, People are holding their heads up quickly followed by a head shake of disbelief :(
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If I knew how to I would put their replies on the web site but IT is not my strong point.
Forward them to admin@marple-uk.com
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Just had two replies form Councillor Shan Alexander and Councillor Chris Baker both of whom state that they were going to look into the matter and both remind me that Seventeen windows does come under Offerton. If I knew how to I would put their replies on the web site but IT is not my strong point. Both councillor's responded to my email very quickly and have said that they are making enquiries re the work at Seventeen Windows
Bit Late Now Its Nearly Finished .
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Hey its not all over till the fat lady sings and I am well over 10 Stone :D LA!LA LAAR!!!! And I bet Sooty two would give Mama Cass or Pavarotti a run for their money LA LA LAAR!!!! ;)
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Here are Miss Marple's replies from local Councillors:
Paula,
Many thanks for copying me on this email. I have spoken to Councillor Alexander and she is dealing with the issue. She has asked the relevant officers for a full report which will establish what has actually taken place. The rumour and gossip version seems very unlikely to me, but I retain an open mind until the facts are known.
I would just observe that this site is in the Offerton ward so falls completely outside the remit of the Marple councillors. We had no involvement in the planning (or any other) matters relating to the site.
Chris
Dear Paula,
Thank you for your e-mail. 17 windows comes under Offerton ward and any decisions I assume would have taken at their Area Committee. Having said this I have written to the Deputy Chief Executive that I would like full details of how this came about and who is responsible for errecting such large fencing that is not very aesthetic for the area.
I will come back to you soon as I get this information.
I hope this is helpful
Shan Alexander
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well you are certainly a "do er "miss Marple. You spoke to the highways who confirmed the council are paying, and contacted a couple of councillors. Did you become active in the morris dancing issue I know you were invited to? ;D Keep on digging and dont ever lose your sense of humour! I wish I could find mine again, its got lost somewhere along the way from my first post almost six months ago :'(
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"shakes head "
Its not even finished, nor do you have any actual facts and figures
:(
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"shakes head "
Its not even finished, nor do you have any actual facts and figures
:(
Sorry think I may have confused you!! My La La LAAR !!! is just my voice warming technique in preparation for that good old song THE WALLS OF JERICHO !!!!!! (Well FENCES OF MARPLE / OFFERTON ) in this case ;)
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Tony, who was the councillor?
To get back to the issue of Seventeen Windows. I emailed one of our local councilors with the following;
.....
As you may be aware there is a long running discussion about the work being done at Seventeen Windows.
One of the frequent comments is about the cost, but no one has said what the actual cost is.
Are you, as a local councilor and under the freedom of information, able to find out how much the council is paying to have this work done and put an end to a lot of speculation.
.....
His reply was;
.....
Thank you for your message. Other than from yourself, I have received no communications either by letter, e-mail or orally from anyone about the work at Seventeen Windows. Neither I am aware of any discussions about it - long running or otherwise. I wonder if you are able to say who it is that is frequently commenting or speculating about the cost?
However, I have referred your message with its question in the last sentence to officers of the Council.
.....
He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
It will be interesting to see what answers, if any, come back, and when.
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I noticed and earlier reply saying that the Marple elected representative do not have a remit as this site is in another ward.
But surely, would they not pass on members concerns to the responsible councillors!
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Here's another of Miss Marple's replies from Marple's Local Councillors.
Paula,
A few more thoughts following your e mail. From your comments, residents obviously don't fully understand the basic workings of the council. The council works on an annual budget of around £204 million. This covers all the normal running of the council facilities and is made up of the money from residents council tax and the rate support grant from the government. For the sake of this discussion call it 50/50.
All other projects, big stuff such as Dan Bank, are funded by local councils making a bid for funding from central government. This is money which is collected through general taxation and business rates and is allocated back to councils on proven need.
This money can only be spent on the projects it is allocated for or it goes back.
If the council didn't try for funding for theses projects they would never be done as the council isn't allowed to hold big reserves of cash or increase council tax to fund them.
What is raised from the rates is spent every year, hence the word budget. You budget for the year ahead. It is only right and proper that the council claws this money back from central government and does work on the local infrastructure funding it responsibly, otherwise our residents would lose out to more proactive local authorities.
Regards, Andrew Bispham
And in order for you to put the replies into context, here is Miss Marple's original email to them:
Dear Shan Alexander
It has come to light via the Marple Web Site that the council has in exchange for a small piece of garden from seventeen windows undertaken what amounts to a total landscape of the garden at seventeen windows and have also fenced and put a drive in for the owner. I would have been a little sceptical of the Marple Web site gossip if I had not contacted the planning dept at the town hall who stated that they had undertaken all this work in exchange for a couple of foot of pavement.
As my local councillor i would like for you to investigate as to just how much has been spent by SMBC in providing the owner of seventeen windows with such an outrages deal. I would also like you to find out as to who gave / allowed the monstrosity at Seventeen windows to happen. If yo have not seen the total mess hey have made I suggest that you make it your business to do so as I feel you will be horrified.
The Marple web sight is having comments about it daily and the public anger is growing. I will print your reply on the web site for other residents to read. If it is true that a deal has been struck with the owner of Seventeen windows then I feel someones head should roll at the council.
Here's a link to the contact details for Offerton Councillors (scroll down the page to Offerton) one of whom is Dave Goddard, leader of the Council.
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/contactyourcouncillor/councillorsbyward?a=5441
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What an irrelevant response from Cllr Bispham! Whether the money comes from local council or central government doesn't matter - it's still tax payers cash either way.
Surely the question is whether taxpayers money should be spent in this way?
I agree with the Cllr that going to central government for funding for acceptable projects is perfectly sound and resonable. But is this an acceptable project?
Or am I completely missing the point... I am joining in this thread rather late after all!
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Re quote from Councillor Bispham
"residents obviously don't fully understand the basic workings of the council. "
That's rather an arrogant remark, I am one of those residents and I do have an understanding of the workings of the council
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Alan,
I agree I don't like the tone of Councillor Bispham response, and although Seventeen Windows is just inside the Offerton boundary I'd like to question the said councillor on "joined up council decisions".
If the land was purchased to increase the width of the pavement what are they going to do about the rest of the pavement from the traffic lights up to Hill Top Drive, or is that no concern of the Offerton councillors as that bit is in Marple?
What are they going to do about crossing Dooley Lane and Offerton Road (A627), change both sets of lights to incorporate a "Green Man"?
Oh and buy the way if they are changing the lights that bit comes out of the Council budget Cllr Bispham!
The more I read on this subject the more it smells.
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This topic is really developing now! Well done to the people who are joining in this long running debate. What would be interesting is if the people who at first thought the development was a good idea , post to see if their view's have changed or strengthened. If you readback through the posts it is clear to see that people were against the opposition to the work at Seventeen would be great to hear what they have to say now we know we are paying for it.
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According to Stockport Heritage Vol.7 No.1 It was 1944 when two children were found burned to death in Seventeen Windows. Ray.
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Alan,
I agree I don't like the tone of Councillor Bispham response, and although Seventeen Windows is just inside the Offerton boundary I'd like to question the said councillor on "joined up council decisions".
If the land was purchased to increase the width of the pavement what are they going to do about the rest of the pavement from the traffic lights up to Hill Top Drive, or is that no concern of the Offerton councillors as that bit is in Marple?
What are they going to do about crossing Dooley Lane and Offerton Road (A627), change both sets of lights to incorporate a "Green Man"?
Oh and buy the way if they are changing the lights that bit comes out of the Council budget Cllr Bispham!
The more I read on this subject the more it smells.
Same here Victor M, it stinks to high heaven!!
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Reply from the council:-
Dear Mr Jones
Your recent enquiry to Cllr Candler regarding the above scheme has been passed to me to reply.
The works ongoing at the present time are part of a footway and junction improvement scheme that together with the works on Dan Bank will ultimately provide a safe pedestrian route between Offerton and Marple. The scheme forms part of the safe route to schools initiative on the route from Offerton to Marple Hall School on Hill Top Drive. There was previously no effective footway at all on the 17 Windows section of Marple Road and schoolchildren walked in the road. The highway boundary wall had moved under pressure from the high ground behind, and it was this high ground that was excavated and stabilised as the major part of the widening works.
Further footpath improvements are planned as part of the works associated with the Dan Bank works on completion of that scheme in 2011 when the footpath over this length of Stockport Road will be widened to accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists. As part of phase 2 of the works at the Offerton Road junction there will be a new traffic island constructed within the mouth of Offerton Road together with a new signal controller that will incorporate a red and green man facility for pedestrians to cross safely. Modifications to the existing kerblines and road markings are also part of the scheme and will be carried out later this year
The estimated cost of all the works at) the junction as described above is £200,000 of which £23,000 is contributed from adjacent development on Offerton Road and £35,000 is a contribution from structural funds towards stabilisation of the bank at 17 Windows; some of the works visible on site have been paid for by the developer of 17 Windows. The Dan Bank stabilisation including the footway/cycleway provision is estimated at £3,400,000.
Ken Harrop
Strategic Network Engineer
Traffic Services
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??? Whilst the reply from Ken Harrop re the cost of the works on Dan Bank makes intresting reading it detracts from what I and many of my friends and family wish to know and that is, how much of tax payers monies has been used to directly enhance the appearance of Seventeen Windows. I can understand that the garden wall may well have needed replacing. I am not a structural engineer but what I would have expected was replacement on a 'like for like' basis not an all singing all dancing 6 foot designer wall with fancy fencing. I would also like to know why the same workmen who worked on the garden wall were also the ones who constructed the high fences on the hill and around the house. There needs to be a public inquiry into just exactly what monies were spent to enhance the appearance of Seventeen windows and what monies were used for the necessary work. The letter from Mr Harrop does not give a clear break down IE what the owner of Seventeen Windows contributed to the cost of the work and who's idea it was to erect such an elaborate wall and fencing and why none of our elected councillors appeared to know anything about it, itis in itself a joke. Until we know the answers to those questions I still feel that the owner of Seventeen Windows has and continues to have been the winner in all of this and it would appear he has dictated to the planners just exactly what he wanted in return for a couple of foot of pavement. God help the person who suggests an increase my community charge.!!!! :-\
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"ENHANCE" bad choice of word there Miss Marple, But I know what you meant. Im going to get in trouble for this comment, children often walk on the road for no other reason that they can and will ;)
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I am not a structural engineer but what I would have expected was replacement on a 'like for like' basis not an all singing all dancing 6 foot designer wall with fancy fencing.
You would be the first to moan about a pile of un landscaped earth as you enter Marple!
There needs to be a public inquiry into just exactly what monies were spent to enhance the appearance of Seventeen windows and what monies were used for the necessary work.
How much of 'tax payers' money would that cost?
I personally think that the place looks a damn sight better, i would have done things differently, but overall i think its a vast improvement. if you take time to read the plans and proposals once the greenery has matured it will look a lot more fitting to the area. im sure that will make me unpopular but as it stood, the old wreck, historic or not is lucky to be left standing.
why cant people accept change? its not that scary!
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I don't think people are objecting to change, it's the type of change that's the concern here. I'll be very happy if your predictions are correct and the place looks more in keeping once the landscaping has been planted and had time to mature. For the time being, I can only say it looks a mess, and I have given it the benefit of the doubt after reading earlier posts on here which encouraged us to.
Obviously another concern is the financing of the whole thing and I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to ask questions about where and how tax payers' money is being spent.
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Andy you obviously do not understand the workings of the council. Please re read my post because I feel you have missed whats being said?
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Andy doesnt understand the workings of the council ???
Do you realise how patronising you sound ?
The more I read of this, the more of "sour grapes" springs to mind .
Just an opinion "like" .
8)
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Yes I do know how I sound ;D But it would be nice and appropriate for my contribution to be read in the context it was intended. To make it clearer I do not really care about what the owner of seventeen windows is doing !! What I do care about is the carefree attitude the council have with tax payers money. I work at the front line of much needed community services for PEOPLE !!! so I am offended and embarrassed that money is thrown at something like this, when I and many of my colleagues have to fight for a basic service to support and enhance a PERSONS basic right ! SO YES I AM PATRONISING !! but that maybe due to my struggle to get people a basic service which I may add might save their life !
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Yes I do know how I sound ;D But it would be nice and appropriate for my contribution to be read in the context it was intended. To make it clearer I do not really care about what the owner of seventeen windows is doing !! What I do care about is the carefree attitude the council have with tax payers money. I work at the front line of much needed social /community services for PEOPLE !!! So YES!! I am offended and embarrassed that money is thrown at something like this, when I and many of my colleagues have to fight for a basic service to support and enhance a PERSONS basic right ! SO YES I AM PATRONISING !! but that maybe due to my struggle to get people a basic service which I may add might save their life ! One has to understand that true workings of the council and government before commenting But that's just my opinion !!!!!
Does anyone else share my embarrassment at the sheer waste of money when people are struggling to pay their mortgages, keep a roof over their heads or put a meal on the table. As i have said before KEEP IT REAL !!!!
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So now, we are talking about fighting for peoples basic rights , well, if we all bought other issues into this, this topic could go on and on and on ...
As for agreeing that you are patronising , can you not agree , disagree , discuss with other people their thoughts and opinions without having to be patronising towards them to get your point across when you do not agree with what someone says ?
I have read your posts with interest, and although yes, there is a bit of ribbing at times towards eachother, I have agreed and disagreed with many comments you have made ( I shall keep what I agree with close to my chest ;) ) , but I'm finding that the more I read of your comments, the more you seem to "Jump" on someone if their opinion differs to yours .
As for other people to only comment on here if they know and understand the "true" workings of the council, AND the government , what nonsense ! isn't this supposed to be a notice board for our local community, for all to be a part of , whatever their level of understanding of any topic ? Or shall we give you a sheriff badge ( to be in fitting with the wild west theme park you talk about , aka seventeen windows, ) and give you a horse ( make sure its better than sootys) , and call it the Miss Marple Forum and notice board ( my way or the high way )
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why cant people accept change? its not that scary!
Change for the better is acceptable. not that atrocious mess. unlandscaped earth will eventually flourish with wild flowers and young trees, these could be the basis for a beautiful garden when simpathetic planting is incorporated. Seventeen Windows and its garden was never a mess. It was just an old farmhouse type building sitting quietly at the junction, blending unnasumingly within its surroundings, in my opinoion and we are all entitled to one, its just a complete waste of public money and very VULGAR !!! :( sorry I do not know how to get rid of all these above quotes, I am replying to Andy seeing a pile of unlandscaped earth as we enter Marple.
new reply moved out of quote block and quote reduced - admin
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So now, we are talking about fighting for peoples basic rights , well, if we all bought other issues into this, this topic could go on and on and on ...
As for agreeing that you are patronising , can you not agree , disagree , discuss with other people their thoughts and opinions without having to be patronising towards them to get your point across when you do not agree with what someone says ?
I have read your posts with interest, and although yes, there is a bit of ribbing at times towards eachother, I have agreed and disagreed with many comments you have made ( I shall keep what I agree with close to my chest ;) ) , but I'm finding that the more I read of your comments, the more you seem to "Jump" on someone if their opinion differs to yours .
As for other people to only comment on here if they know and understand the "true" workings of the council, AND the government , what nonsense ! isn't this supposed to be a notice board for our local community, for all to be a part of , whatever their level of understanding of any topic ? Or shall we give you a sheriff badge ( to be in fitting with the wild west theme park you talk about , aka seventeen windows, ) and give you a horse ( make sure its better than sootys) , and call it the Miss Marple Forum and notice board ( my way or the high way )
IN REPLY TO PINK PANTHER
Firstly I think you are getting me mistaken with Sooty 2 ! re the theme park (re read posts) But putting that to one side I do agree that it would be intresting as you say to open this topic up into fighting for peoples basic rights especially when the use of tax payers money is concerned. The amount of 3.3 million set aside for Dan Bank or whatever fills me with horror because if it was the private sector in control of the budjet you could bet your botton dollar that monies spent would have to be better accounted for. You have been vocal towards me on this issue but have not shared your feelings on the use of such a large amount of money. I agree that work needs to be done on Dan Bank but what I don't agree with is the councils justification that if the monies set aside are not spent they will just return to central government. That attitude only sees money being squandered and not targated towards other front line services . I sometimes wished I looked at the world through rose coloured spectacles but sadly I do not. I am, as I have already stated on the front line trying to work within a TIGHT budjet to provided essential services to people in crisis so I find it hard to read justifications on such a waste of money. I am intrested to hear your views or anyone else's but it always appears to be you who attacks people not me! This assumption has been made on reading back through your posts to Sooty Two! I look forward and will read with intrest your reply
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I think we are missing the point, the stabilising work on Dan Bank needed doing, the only alternative to the way the work could have been was to fill in the culvert and let the stream run underground to the river. This would have made a right mess to the area. If it was left to the private sector this no doubt would have been the chosen method.
What we all really seem to be upset by is the money spent widening a pavement and the associated costs around seventeen windows. I more practical approach would have been to upgrade the adjacent public footpath (with lights) and use the new proposed pedestrian crossing (part of the Goyt valley cycle route) along Dooley Lane. That would have been considerably cheaper and safer. The effect of the proposed Green man phase on the lights will be horrendous at rush hour (8:00 am) as Marple Hall School starts the day at 8:20 am.
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There is no problem with Dan Bank strenghtening. The cost of the Seventeen Windows joke project and the over zealous pavement widenings come under the umbrella of Dan Bank improvements, probably to hide the true cost.
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Miss Marple,
I wont talk about the costs, and my thoughts on them, and well spotted for noticing that I have not ;)
But I do have my reasons :-X and those reasons are private to me .
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I think we are missing the point, the stabilising work on Dan Bank needed doing, the only alternative to the way the work could have been was to fill in the culvert and let the stream run underground to the river. This would have made a right mess to the area. If it was left to the private sector this no doubt would have been the chosen method.
What we all really seem to be upset by is the money spent widening a pavement and the associated costs around seventeen windows. I more practical approach would have been to upgrade the adjacent public footpath (with lights) and use the new proposed pedestrian crossing (part of the Goyt valley cycle route) along Dooley Lane. That would have been considerably cheaper and safer. The effect of the proposed Green man phase on the lights will be horrendous at rush hour (8:00 am) as Marple Hall School starts the day at 8:20 am.
I didn't explain myself fully re the private sector Victor. What I meant was a private construction company working within the restraints of an allotted amount of money not the bottomless pot that is afforded to local councils to undertake work by way of tendering. I think Sooty 2 has a very interesting point. I have also emailed the leader of the council and the Offerton elected members for their views and justification to the work undertaken at Seventeen windows at the cost to the tax payer IE fences drives and the like. To-date I have not received a reply but when I do I will post it
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I have received the following email from Cllr Andrew Bispham as his reply to Miss Marple was in two parts but we only had the second part posted here:
Hi Mark,
I just thought I would forward the first part of my e mail to Paula to you which seems not to have been printed in the thread on 17 windows. A correction to this is that the money for this has come from the South East Manchester Multi Modal Strategy fund, not the Dan Bank project
In addition there is an agenda item on next Wednesday’s area committee meeting to discuss retaining walls and their funding. Out of interest the total bill to the taxpayer for this dedicated funding comes to a staggering £45 million spread across the four boroughs which have Pennine fringe landscapes. They are Oldham, Rochdale, Tameside and Stockport.
I have asked that a council officer attend the meeting to present this item and be prepared to answer questions on the Dan Bank and 17 windows scheme. I will allow limited question on the above as the other big item on the agenda will be the Compstall Mill planning application, and that will take some time.
Best Wishes, Andrew
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Cllr Andrew Bispham
Sent: 26 August 2009 08:00
To: paula
Cc: Cllr Craig Wright; Cllr Martin Candler
Subject: RE: Seventeen Windows Marple
Paula,
The money for all this has not come from the council. It is all part of the funding from central government to secure the road link from Marple to Stockport. This was in the form of a direct sum of £3.2 million pounds which is dedicated funding for the Dan Bank project and cannot be spent elsewhere. It is not ratepayers money, simply money which Stockport residents should rightly expect the government to spend on our crumbling road infrastructure network.
We also looked at purchasing a strip of land at the bottom of Dan Bank to widen the road and provide an extra lane for traffic turning towards Romiley but the farmer simply wanted too much.
As an engineer, I am quite happy that what has been done has been done to the best standards to ensure that the safety of pedestrians and road users is maintained at this very busy bottleneck into Marple.
For future reference, 17 windows is not in Marple, It is in Offerton and issues regarding Offerton should rightly be addressed to the councillors for that ward. It would be better if the Marple Website contained factual and accurate information on this project rather than just rumour. It is all available and in the public domain
Cllr Andrew Bispham
Chair, Marple Area Committee,
Area spokesperson for Traffic
Marple North & South
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I could say something ..
But I wont :P
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Well that's strange as I have only received the one email that was posted I have never seen this other part of the email until now when I read it on this site Strange how I am not copied into the second half of the email or how it failed to arrive with the first NOW I COULD SAY SOMETHING BUT I WONT !!!! :o
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Not like you Miss Marple, I personally would be furious and need to get to the bottom of it.Like Victor M said something stinks!!!!!!. Pink Panther are you part of MI5? You cant or wont say much will you?seems pointless posting just to tell us that ???
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Just a thought, Why is it that seventeen windows a much photographed building with history assumed to be in Marple by a lot of people including myself, has not raised an eyebrow from any councillors ? Should they not be proud of the assets of their constituency or their neighbours?" Not in my backyard" its in offerton. Does it matter? its still a mess! Its like a paramedic refusing treatment to a heart attack victim 6.01am because his shift finished at 6.00am it would not happen. Why cant they work together? I think they have all had long enough to get an approx costing on the Seventeen windows massacre.If a member of the public has been told to write in for a costing, whats the councillors excuse? Yawn! Yawn! Yawn! as they used to say Ive seen "more work in a sick note" especially on this subject, Cant they do anything more than try to keep a few post offices open and fill a few holes in the road, and I mean a few , prove me wrong please?
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I think ive said quite a bit on the topic of seventeen windows Sooty, if you look back, its a matter of opinion whether you think my contribution is worth while to the topic or not . I dont agree with many things you have said, it doesnt mean there is no point in YOU posting now does it ?
All I did say ( where its relevant to your post about me not saying or posting much ) is that I wouldnt comment on was the costs of seventeen windows, and I did say I had my own reasons for them, which still remain private ( you can work out why for yourself if you wish to, it doesnt take a genius )
Is that an OK ? or shall I keep stum on the whole subject and just let you talk to yourself, now THAT really would be pointless !! :P
8)
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Sooty 2 I have always known who Pink Panther is ::) and their reason for not having an opinion! But it is also dangerous for me to have an opinion ! But do you know what I DON'T CARE and will have an opinion on local issues and be proactive where and when I can !!!!! ;) And I agree it stinks !! and it got worse when the councillor tried to imply I had withheld part of the email he had sent me ! FOR WHAT REASON !!!! THE PLOT THICKENS !
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Pink Panther, I was only saying that your two posts before your last one were pointless. They have no content apart from, you wont say anything. ::)
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....and it got worse when the councillor tried to imply I had withheld part of the email he had sent me !
As I said in my reply to your PM, I don't believe Cllr Bispham was implying that you withheld it, just that it wasn't posted.
It may not have arrived but it certainly looks to me like it was sent. Not just from the headers of the email he forwarded to me but also did you notice how the email you did get started something like "further thoughts...." as if he was following up a previous message?
I believe the message was sent even if you didn't receive it (which happens all the time for various reasons).
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I would not be surprised, to see Seventeen Windows up for sale soon!
Just a thought
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Yes Alan, I agree with you, I mentioned it back on post 69. It will be like living in a goldfish bowl now all the trees and bushes have gone next to the road. I still think some Leylandii would help.May be they are on their way!
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Yes Alan, I agree with you, I mentioned it back on post 69. It will be like living in a goldfish bowl now all the trees and bushes have gone next to the road. I still think some Leylandii would help.May be they are on their way!
[/qu Does Any Body Know Who Owns Seventeen windows .I think there is two houses there now one door both ends now have curtains installed . possible split for letting . . .
ADMIN on The archives page i think its page ten picture of seventeen windows as it used to be could you put on the seventeen windows pages . just to get every body going again . [ love this website better than reading the papers ]
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(http://www.visitmarple.co.uk/photos/albums/uploads/streetscenes/picture_01.jpg)
(http://www.visitmarple.co.uk/photos/albums/uploads/streetscenes/picture_02.jpg)
(http://www.visitmarple.co.uk/photos/albums/uploads/streetscenes/picture_01a.JPG)
(http://visitmarple.co.uk/photos/albums/uploads/streetscenes/picture_02a.jpg)
The last two were taken a few years back, probably around 2005
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All the ' much needed change' to Seventeen Windows supporters have gone extremely quiet! FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CAN NOT THINK WHY !!!! >:( Could it be the pictures of Seventeen Windows ? could they have highlighted what a complete and utter mess it is now ! )
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All the ' much needed change' to Seventeen Windows supporters have gone extremely quiet!
An example which others would do well to follow! ;) As Pink Panther wrote about four months ago:
I think its unfair to judge untill the work is done .
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Well said Dave.
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What utter nonsense !! The supporters of this monstrosity have finally thrown the towel in because they now know that 'THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS' :P
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Went past it today, it's still a monstrosity and it's hard to see how it could improve.
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Bulldozing the lot would be a Huge improvement and maybe replanting all the trees they removed ??? Now maybe I am missing something here! Are we not supposed to be planting trees to protect and prevent climate change! Or is that only if you live in the real world? So for all the Seventeen windows supporters how can you justify that monstrosity of a building, turn a blind eye to the mature trees that were felled to enable such a development? and support what looks like the devastation of half a rain Forest (fences ) in the name of progress. The only explanation I have is that the planning department must be run by townies who are out of their comfort zone if an area is green! Bet they are not local NIMBY springs to mind !!!!
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I was going to add some comments, but whats to point? your mind is closed. But I'm not really bothered.
Why didn't you publish the whole email your councillor sent to you? That is what I would like to know. 'technical error' hmmm.
The b/w pictures although very pretty are very very old, and whilst it may well be yourself in the first one I was merely a glint in the milkmans eye! were you stood there protesting at the thought of traffic lights? tarmac because its too black and clashes with the brickwork? Maybe the 1930's ribbon housing development taking place just up the road? Or the advent of the railways?
The coloured pictures just look like a derelict overgrown house, which it was, until someone came along and spent a whole lot of money on it, so it will be there long after your gone, albeit in a different form.
I think they should be celebrated.
By your reasoning marple hall house is better in its current state than if many years ago someone has transformed it into flats, or retirement apartments.
'' Bet they are not local NIMBY springs to mind !!!!'' this doesn't make any sense.
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All the ' much needed change' to Seventeen Windows supporters have gone extremely quiet! FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CAN NOT THINK WHY !!!! >:( Could it be the pictures of Seventeen Windows ? could they have highlighted what a complete and utter mess it is now ! )
Its called sitting back and having a good chuckle at the readings of "hot air" being blown in the wrong direction , and then from a chuckle to a belly laugh when it becomes ever so apparent :P
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The b/w pictures although very pretty are very very old, and whilst it may well be yourself in the first one I was merely a glint in the milkmans eye! were you stood there protesting at the thought of traffic lights? tarmac because its too black and clashes with the brickwork? Maybe the 1930's ribbon housing development taking place just up the road? Or the advent of the railways?
:o
You have to admit, that post was hilarious :) ;D
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I was going to add some comments, but whats to point? your mind is closed. But I'm not really bothered.
Why didn't you publish the whole email your councillor sent to you? That is what I would like to know. 'technical error' hmmm.
The b/w pictures although very pretty are very very old, and whilst it may well be yourself in the first one I was merely a glint in the milkmans eye! were you stood there protesting at the thought of traffic lights? tarmac because its too black and clashes with the brickwork? Maybe the 1930's ribbon housing development taking place just up the road? Or the advent of the railways?
The coloured pictures just look like a derelict overgrown house, which it was, until someone came along and spent a whole lot of money on it, so it will be there long after your gone, albeit in a different form.
I think they should be celebrated.
By your reasoning marple hall house is better in its current state than if many years ago someone has transformed it into flats, or retirement apartments.
'' Bet they are not local NIMBY springs to mind !!!!'' this doesn't make any sense.
I forwarded the complete email to admin what are you trying to say that he held information back :o SHAME ON YOU !!! PS Your right that could have been a relative of mine but maybe my Great Great Great Grandfather I am only 25 :P
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Just an observation but can anyone spot the hill/ mound/ ski slope in the old photos. :D Thought not :-\ NO JUST TREES AND TREES AND TREES !!!
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I've kept quiet as I have said all I need to say on the matter... I pass it everyday on my way to work..I think its looking good the whole area looks so much more brighter and not a dark gloomy corner!!!!... I still read daily to see what other hot air is blown all out of proportion, I just choose not to comment every 5 mins ;)
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This is my first contribution to the site on the Seventeen Windows debacle. Like most of the writers I to am very concerned about the funding that the Council have provided for this scheme. A few months ago I had a telephone conversation with Ken Harrop, Stratigic Network Engineer. The answer that I was provided with may be of interest to you all.
The council decided that the footpath required widening outside Seventeen Windows. In order for this to become a possibility the owner of Seventeen Windows was asked to and agreed to dedicate a narrow strip of land fronting the property. In exchange the Council would fund the landscaping to the tune of £100,000. This was to include the cost of stabilising the banking. It seems somewhat strange that nowhere on this site does this figure appear. There are figures detailing the total cost of the whole scheme £200,000, mention of contributions by the property owner, but no mention of the cost incurred on the landscaping. Perhaps they would rather us not know. I do not have a problem with the work that has been carried out, but I strongly object to our Council Tax paying for it. It is obvious that the owner will reap significant financial benefit. One final point, in respect of Ken Harrops e mail of a few days ago. He states that the boundary retaining wall had moved under pressure of the banking which was slipping. I have no recollection of there being a wall in front of the banking, only a hedge, and photos available on the web will confirm. My research has shown that the property owner is a Mr. Mollinson from Wilmslow and that the property was bought in 2007 for £138.000. Perhaps the Council should have bought the house, landscaped it as now, and they may have made a profit on it. Not helped to line the pockets of the owner.
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Hi Beverly - welcome to the Forum and to this long-running issue!
Re your objection to 'our Council Tax paying for it', if you read through some earlier posts you'll find copies of various communications from councillors and officers of SMBC which explain (sometimes rather confusingly) where the funding came from. Basically it is mainly from a government 'pot' called SEMMS (South East Manchester Multi-Modal Strategy' - what a mouthful!). It does not appear to have been funded from Council Tax. Although personally I wouldn't object if it was - I can't imagine anything more important than making pavements safe for pedestrians.
Re the pressure on the old retaining wall, if you look at the old photographs which are just a few posts back from this one, you'll see that there was a brick wall across the front of the property. I would imagine that the problem was not immediately in front of the house, but in front of the old garden at the east (Marple) end.
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Yes ! welcome Beverly you have had the guts to write what most of us already knew but were reluctant to share, well done! Whilst most on the site talk about the house looking 'nice' and a welcome development you have hit the nail on the head by pointing out the financial issues of a scheme that will profit a private house owner. I have also had information about the owner and have been informed that he is a property developer and intended to make a profit when he purchased it from the previous owner who through ill health could not continue the renovations. Property owner or not he stands to make a huge amount of profit and I personally feel wherever the monies came from they were never intended to profit an individual.
NB My quote ARE YOU LOCALS comes from the league of gentlemen !! not a personal attack on people ( KEEP IT REAL !!)
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unfortunately most people want to make profit from bargains!! If id have ever considered buying it then I d certainly expect a hefty return from the effort that it clearly required!
Maybe we can use this example to maybe put pressure on our surely embarrassed councillors to show the "profits" stockport could make in buying other properties that will go same way or worse if someone doesn't step in soon... Brabyns cottage springs to mind for me presumably failed to sell at auction? and of course the house next to memorial park.
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With regards to the consideration of the suggested £100.000 in exchange for "gifting" the land for pavement use, would the district valuation officer have been consulted and would there be a potential capital gains tax liability, or will there be in the future?.
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Perhaps the Council should have bought the house, landscaped it as now, and they may have made a profit on it. Not helped to line the pockets of the owner.
Maybe we can use this example to maybe put pressure on our surely embarrassed councillors to show the "profits" stockport could make in buying other properties that will go same way or worse if someone doesn't step in soon
This wacky thread is becoming even more unreal! So instead of sticking to making our roads and pavements safe, the Council should now be spending our Council Taxes on property speculation! Good grief...... ::)
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Miss Marple has now received the following briefing report via Cllr Alexander. There is also a pdf of the drawing for the full scheme including the new pedestrian crossing here: www.marple-uk.com/misc/2022-17GA-01.pdf
BRIEFING NOTE ON 17 WINDOWS PROPERTY MARPLE ROAD OFFERTON
- The scheme involves improving pedestrian facilities between the Offerton area of Shearwater Road estate and beyond with Marple and includes the walking route for pupils attending Marple Hall School. This has been an issue that has been raised over a number of years by both residents and members.
- The owner of 17 Windows approached the council over two years ago with a planning application to relocate the position of his vehicular driveway that accessed and egressed into the signal-controlled junction.
- To facilitate this new access that would not conflict with the signals there was a requirement to improve the sight lines at the new location.
- The existing footpath and the radius of the bend did not allow this requirement to be met.
- The existing footpath was narrow along the frontage to the property being between 0.9m and 1.2 metres wide placing pedestrians in close proximity to passing traffic.
- The existing signals do not at present have any pedestrian facilities.
- The property owner offered to dedicate to the council land on the frontage of the property such that the footpath width could be widened to a maximum of 3.2 metres. This also allowed for the sight line for the new access to be achieved as well as improving road safety both in relation to the existing vehicular access and the improvement for pedestrians.
- The relocation of the vehicular access has allowed a scheme to be designed to carry out a junction improvement at the Offerton Road/Marple Road junction that will incorporate red and green man crossing facilities. This work will be carried out as phase 2 of the scheme during the October half term.
- The area of land that the property owner has agreed to dedicate to the Council is 130 sq. metres over a frontage length of 65metres.
- Land required for junction improvements that has been in private ownership has, on a regular basis, been purchased by the Council either as CPO or through negotiation.
- In this case the owner has given the land to the Council free of charge. However, if it would have been necessary to negotiate a purchase of the land then a figure of £18,000 would be a realistic value based on similar recent acquisitions.
- If the land had been compulsory purchased this would have taken a number of years to conclude.
- Work carried out within the curtilage of the property has essentially been the removal of the existing soil banking and the stabilisation and regrading of the garden area together with a small amount of sapling replanting and replacing of the boundary hedge.
- The materials used in the reconstruction of the stone retaining wall i.e. brick wall to a height of 1.2 metres with brick piers and timber panel infill to a finished height of 1.8 metres have been agreed with the owner after consulting with the East Area Planning.
- The owner has erected fencing to the north and west boundaries of the property at his expense.
- The construction works to complete the frontage boundary wall that presently being carried out are due to be completed in the next ten days and the replacement hedge will be planted subsequently with broad leaf laurel agreed with the environment officer.
- The initial design work undertaken at the inception of the scheme showed that there were no practicable alternative measures that were feasible to address the safety elements of the scheme given the absence of alternative footpaths in the area.
- The cost of the work that has been undertaken within the curtilage of the property in stabilising the ground, regrading and replanting is £27,000.
- The overall cost of the scheme that includes the junction improvement at Offerton road is £200,000 of which £35,000 is a contribution from structural funds for the retaining wall and £23,000 is a contribution from an adjacent development on Offerton Road.
- The outcome of this scheme is that, together with width improvements to the footpath on Danbank, and the incorporation of red and green man facilities at the Dooley lane /Marple Road junction (that will be carried out as part of the stabilisation works currently being undertaken), minor improvements to the footpath from the end of the current work to the Dooley Lane/Marple Road junction and the junction improvement at Offerton Road, there will be a significant improvement to road safety for pedestrians especially schoolchildren using the route to and from Marple Hall School.
- Forward visibility for traffic on Marple road travelling towards Marple travelling through the junction will also be improved.
- Incidents of vehicles entering and egressing the property directly into the signalised junction and the safety issues that this would have raised with the use of green man crossing facilities have been addressed.
If there are any further issues relating to the scheme please contact Ken Harrop, Strategic Network Engineer, Traffic Services on 0161-474-4818
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Many thanks for posting the above detailed explanation. A question I would like to ask the councillors involves the 2 green man crossing that are being erected. Are the crossing signals going to be on demand, i.e. only come on when someone wants to cross the road or be a permanent feature, i.e. coming on at every light changing phase 24/7. If it is the latter has there been an impact statement done on the effect it will have on vehicle traffic using the two junctions.
Also is it council policy to try and improve the width of all pavements in the borough where this is possible as there are lots of pavements locally on very busy roads that are less than 0.9m wide?
I will contact Ken Harrop, who I have spoken to in the past and always found him very approachable and professional, and post what I find out.
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Having now spoken with Ken Harrop I can now confirm that the new lights on Offerton Road have been designed so that they will not have any impact on the flow of traffic through the junction. The second set of lights on the Dooley lane junction won't be installed until the summer of 20011, at the same time that the pavement up to Hill Top Drive is widened and will incorporate a cycling section, thus alleviating the impact that cyclist have on traffic traveling up Dan Bank and making it much safer for cyclists and pedestrians. The second set of lights will have a green man phase but this will only be on demand, thus the impact on traffic will be minimised and only really occur on the start and finish of the school day at Marple Hall.
On top of this they are also hopefull that they will be able to extend the turn right lane at the bottom of Stockport Road that will alleviate some of the hold ups caused by traffic turning right from Marple towards Romiley.
When the newness of the work on Seventeen Windows has faded and the landscaping has matured I think all in all I am now in favour. We will have at last a stabilised road, safer routes for both pedestrians and cyclists, an improved flow of traffic through the junction and allowed Seventeen Windows to remain as a residential home instead of eventually becoming a ruin. With most of the work paid for out of a central government pot. It's just a pity that none of this was communicated in full in any of the newsletters. Anyway it just goes to show the power of this forum!
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... will incorporate a cycling section, thus alleviating the impact that cyclist have on traffic traveling up Dan Bank and making it much safer for cyclists and pedestrians. ...
As a cyclist I avoid Dan Bank, I think it's much too dangerous / frsutrating. I don't like holding up traffic, but there isn;t always room for cars to pass safely. Despite this any try anway. Instead, I cycle up the old road to Marple Hall round the edge of the school. It means I have to lift my bike over one fence, which is not great hardship - might see if the council can open that up...
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I also cycle regularly through Dan Bank and although not ideal as the traffic usually isn't moving I don't find it that unsafe (I'll probably get knocked off now) and I think that the eventual changes will be of benefit to both cyclists and motorists, not sure though how pedestrians will take to cyclists sharing their space.
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So it seems now that the owner of Seventeen windows has given his land away FREE!!! How kind of him and how nice of the Highways Dept to give him a new garden costing £ 27000 and vehicular access to the property. Probably an increase on the property value £100.000 just for the garden and access. Properties with no access usually end up being sold at auction, just like the cottage in Brabyns Park. £27000? the amount of manpower on Seventeen Windows makes me wonder if those men were working for £1.00 per hour, Send them round to my place !! Some people have all the luck ;)
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Ken Harrop is supposed to have told Cllr Alexander £100.000 in exchange for land and Beverly Hills £27.000.which is it to be? Things still dont add up. Could an honest person give us an honest answer? Whats done is done, but the true cost of this project should be published for all to see. Come on you councillors and Ken Harrop, get your heads together, stories straight and less cooking and fudging! ::) ::) ::)
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Some people have all the luck ;)
Or the foresight to see a good oppurtunity and the skill to negotiate a good deal.
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Or know people ???
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I forwarded the complete email to admin what are you trying to say that he held information back :o SHAME ON YOU !!! PS Your right that could have been a relative of mine but maybe my Great Great Great Grandfather. I am only 25 :P
http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2712.0
hmm,
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She is joking Andy
Sense of humour on the boards, especially on this topic is catching :)
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Why didn't you publish the whole email your councillor sent to you? That is what I would like to know. 'technical error' hmmm.
I'm not concerned about Miss Marple's age; every lady is entitled to exaggerate that, one way or the other. And Pink Panther is absolutely right - she was joking.
However, I am concerned about the accusation quoted above. I didn't notice it when it was posted because I was on holiday in an old cottage in Wales with a lousy wi-fi connection. The quote in the previous post has caused me to go back to see what it was all about.
I can categorically state that Miss Marple sent me a complete and undoctored email from Cllr. Bispham and that was posted here, around the same time as an email from Cllr Alexander. Subsequently, Cllr. Bispham forwarded me an email that he says he sent to Miss Marple before the one that was posted and confirmed that he had sent two. Miss Marple says that she didn't receive the first one, only the second one, which is why she expressed some doubt about the one forwarded by Cllr Bispham as being genuine. It is my sincere belief that both Miss Marple and Cllr Bispham are telling the truth and the simple fact is that the first email was sent but did not arrive. It happens all the time for a multitude of reasons.
I have actually spoken to Cllr Bispham about this face-to-face. I can tell that the emails are not forged and I am very unhappy that accusations like this are flying around. If I had noticed soon after it was posted I would have deleted it. As it has been there since 9 September that is no longer an appropriate response but I feel a need to reply and set the record straight now that I have noticed it.
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Its all going over my head this subject because its getting way too confusing, even for me ( I know ... can you believe it :P )
someone told me the other day that they "Think" that seventeen windows is going to be divided into two ( on the inside ) and used as offices ??
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Yes it is confusing PP. We cant get a straight answer about the costs involved. It doesnt matter what department the funding has come from, its taxpayers and has been squandered on a private dwelling. As for the office rumour, it sounds unlikely, but nothing would surprise me! I personally dont think it is an attractive property as ive said countless times, an ugly garden on a busy junction and proposed crossing and it cant possibly be worth realistically whats been spent on it. Quick way to split it in two; Remove a section of rendering, Take a big lump hammer,a couple of whacks and Hey Presto! job done. ;D :P
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I cant see how it would be divided either, before they put the net curtains up, you could see in, and there was a lovely big kitchen downstairs .
I think the garden only looks ugly because nothing has been grown up the fences yet , I do think it will look very different this time next year ( fingers crossed that its finished ) .
The junction is, I agree, a complete nightmare, and even with the new drive, it still looks like it could be a headache getting a car in and out , but its got to be better and safer than it was before.
As for funding, like I said, its getting way too confusing for me, with conflict of figures from different directions.
Maybe I should speak to the landscapers at seventeen windows , I may have more of a chance of getting them to do the fencing and landscaping in my garden than Ive had with the THREE local companies Ive had to come and quote me for work who cant be even bothered to come back to me :( ...... and thinking about it , maybe I could sell a bit of the land at the bottom of my garden , its very very near a well used path , I'm sure I could come up with an idea why they might need it .... In FACT, I might as well say my goodbyes now, because If I become a millionaire from it, then all I can say is ADIOS, my new villa awaits me ;D :P
8) 8)
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:-X
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It doesnt matter what department the funding has come from, its taxpayers
Well at least we can all agree on something! However, sooty2 then goes on to write....
.....and has been squandered on a private dwelling.
Er, not really. 200K of public money, whichever pots of money it came from, is being spent on a major modernisation of the entire junction, as described in the summary from Cllr Alexander. Of this, 27K is the cost of necessary ground work taking place within the garden of 17 Windows. This is the 'stabilising the ground, regrading and replanting' described in Cllr Alexamder's summary (above). Without this work, the junction improvements could not take place. Sooty2 may call this 'squandering' but most people, I suspect, would not. Money spent on making roads and pavements safe for motorists, cyclists, pedestrians etc is not 'squandered' - on the contrary, this is a key responsibility of local authorities, and what the Council is doing is entirely right.
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And the footpath uphill towards Offerton on the Seventeen Windows side is still unusable!! It is too narrow to walk on, and it is dangerous to walk in the road on that bend. I have seen no mention of this being remedied in all these discussions, and there is no sign of anything being done. Have I missed something? :-[
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Dave, You know that I know , that the whole £200k wasnt squandered on 17 windows. You are stating the obvious. WHY? >:(
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Apologies if my post wasn't clear, sooty2. The main point I was trying to make was not to do with the cost, but to take issue with your use of the word 'squandered'. I don't think it's 'squandering' to spend 27K of public money on rebuilding the retaining wall within the garden of 17 Windows so that the junction can be improved and the pavement widened to make it safer.
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I am unsure about the retaining wall ??? Why was there a need to build a retaining wall as many posts have already pointed out there was only ever a low garden wall and a hedge. It would be my opinion that the retaining wall is now needed due to landscaping (i use the word loosely) Look at the pictures of the original seventeen windows and you will see that there was never a huge hill. NB I have spoken to the planning dept and they assure me that a tree planting programme has to start within 6 months. At the cost I would assume to the owner but lets just wait and see as it would be my view that this will be an additional cost to the tax payer. Also can anyone tell me why the tree that is on the farmers land has been topped? It was a mature tree that stood there for years and the only reason I can see for its topping is that God forbid it hung over Seventeen Windows land.
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As im sure you are aware Miss Marple the civil engineers or whatever you call them created the mound in the first place with excess earth from the burying of the huge tank! I totally agree with you that the garden looks flattish to me on the photos. The extra lane that was to be created to turn left to Romiley cant go ahead because the land owner wont sell at an acceptable price.Good grief how much will it cost to buy land for the pavement widening from the lights to Hill Top Drive? I dont think I want to know,as they will never tell us the true cost anyway. I think this whole project will be full if inconsistencies. I still dont see how any of this will improve the junction as Dave says. All I know is there is to be a pedestrian crossing. ???
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Oh and I know that will make you happy Dave, for the safety of pedestrians and the *little Darlings* who choose to walk in the road anyway ;D
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And the footpath uphill towards Offerton on the Seventeen Windows side is still unusable!! It is too narrow to walk on, and it is dangerous to walk in the road on that bend. I have seen no mention of this being remedied in all these discussions, and there is no sign of anything being done. Have I missed something? :-[
The way I have understood it the pedestrian crossing (see the drawing a few posts back) will allow the footpath users to cross from the 17 Windows side to the opposite side after the Hazel Grove turning and then continue up Marple Old Road (which is were the cyclists are supposed to go too). If this is the case then there would be no need for the pavement to be widened from the lights up towards Offerton. In fact it would be better if the narrow pavement was removed and maybe a cycle lane created for coming down the hill.
I don't know want the condition of Marple Old Road is like but I recall cyclists complaining that it wasn't very good in other topics. Perhaps there will be some money spent on improving that.
Whatever your views on 17 Window itself the widening and crossing scheme seems to be a good idea to me.
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I may be wrong but i thought Marple Old Road was access only?
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I bet the residents on Marple Old Road are pleased!
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I may be wrong but i thought Marple Old Road was access only?
I'm sure it probably is for cars, and then only from the top, but if you look carefully you will see that the green cycle "lane" already heads up there.
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No Motor Vehicles, Except for Access.
::)
this may be interesting to some of you
http://www.planning-inspectorate.gov.uk/pins/row_order_advertising/councils/2008/documents/fps_c4235_7_16od.pdf (http://www.planning-inspectorate.gov.uk/pins/row_order_advertising/councils/2008/documents/fps_c4235_7_16od.pdf)
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Even better Marple now has its own junior Colditz Castle - perhaps it will become a tourist attraction?
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The place is an eyesore. Heard a rumour that the name will be changed to "The Alamo"
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Where have you been JCC? Its six months since you posted. Its not got any better has it? Its so good to have a supporter on board :) Ive been slogging away on this topic with a few avid objectors for over six months. Have you read all the posts? They make interesting reading, and often humorous. I think if we all met each other there could be fisticuffs ;D Im only joking for the more serious amongst us! Forts,castles,stockades,themepark and now Alamo and Colditz. Yes Yes yes! Two more people who are not wearing rose coloured specs. welcome BikeyPierre, did you fall off your bike when you passed it? Ive seem motorists straining their necks with backward glances as they pass it. I can imagine people seeing it and saying what the hell have they done to that? lets all hope for a miracle or an act of God so that someday, someway it will once again become a house and garden thats fits in with its surroundings, Is a miracle an act of god? i think so :P This topic is going crazy at he moment with nearly one hundred hits a day! Someone wanted me to leave it alone around five and half thousand views back. Its incredible the interest being shown.
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Quickly nurse, the screens, the screens......... ;)
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I am not that interested in who paid for what as the Government and Councils spend most of their time wasting our money and this is a tiny proportion of that. The key thing for me is the unsympathetic 'restoration' perhaps the wrong word of 17 windows. The building could have easily been saved and retained the original character without the use of the dreadful rendering. The buildings original character was based on the brick construction and that has been lost entirely. As for the garden, what a greeting for anyone entering Marple! I live in a conservation area and any changes we have made have been subject to jumping through numerous hoops by conservation officers - it looks like this development was immune from that process. I assume this is because it is not a conservation area and its not a listed building? All very sad and to be quite honest they might as well have knocked the building down and built something new!
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Yes I agree with you. Its just not right that its got PP. I mentioned in post 69 how buildings in Chester and York have been restored sympathetically. But not many people seem to care. Sign of the times perhaps? It surprises me really as Marple has quite a bit of history to it, and some buildings, especially such a landmark as 17 Windows should be kept as it was, externally of course :(
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Even better Marple now has its own junior Colditz Castle - perhaps it will become a tourist attraction?
lol I'll be thinking of that every time I pass it now!!
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Does anyone know what the planting is at 17 windows? It looks like quick growing weeds.Still its better than nothing. Hope any future trees and bushes grow as quick, I wonder when the flag will be hoisted on the top? ;D
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Looks like there is a plaque on the rendered wall of Seventeen Windows. Does anyone know what it says? My eyes are bad ,Ive just thought ,it could be a burglar alarm! ;D
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I see that Seventeen Windows has now gone up for sale.
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Managed to stop at the Dan Bank traffic lights today. The plaque looks like a picture of how it used to look and how I think it should look now. >:( FOR SALE!!!! I dont believe it? as Victor Meldrew would say. I said in post 69 that I thought it would be sold. I wonder how much this much subsidised property is worth now? Does anyone know which agent if any it is with? Laurels have been planted today, at last some greenery ::)
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I have also noticed the for sale sign at Fort Offerton an felt so outraged that I have requested that Andrew Stunell investigates. It is irrelevant if the building is in Offerton or Marple it is still public money which has been used for an individual to profit from. Others on this site may not be angered about the sheer waste of money but I am outraged that in this economic climate the money was used to profit an individual that didn't even need the house to live in. I am waiting with baited breath to see what the house is valued at and hopefully the powers that be may have insight and enough decency to claw some of the profits back. I hope it never sells and the owner who has desecrated the whole history and character of Seventeen Windows is left with it as a constant reminder of the folly he has left all us locals to endure on a daily basis.
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I guess some people who are determined to believe something will always do so, even if they know the facts are otherwise!
If you re-read this interminable thread, you will recall that SMBC contributed £27,000 to earthworks within the grounds of 17 Windows so that the pavement could be widened. That's all. If the Council had not contributed that money, the pavement would not have been widened. This is not....
public money which has been used for an individual to profit from.
It was always likely to be a developer (rather than a private buyer) who took that project on, and developers have to invest a tidy amount of money, expertise and time in order to maake a profit (if they are lucky) and move on.
Isn't it time we all moved on as well? ;)
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In what country can you buy that amount of labour for £27000?Not this one! Poor souls must of been working for pennies. Parts of the groundworks were so labour intensive, Ive counted at least twenty men on site. these men will not be working for less than £100 a day. This went on for days and weeks and months. To my reckoning the wage bill would be well over £30000 in three weeks. Plus the plant hire and materials. >:( Dont you just hate having the wool pulled over your eyes?Ive heard on the grape vine some of those workers were earning in excess of £700 a week,Good Luck to them, especially as there was a lot of head scratching and standing around ;)I wish central government would pay someone to wire up the new lamp posts in my street, they have been in situ about 9 months on the unfinished tarmac footpath that is now home to many weeds ::) 2 yes 2 lamposts and a top coat of tarmac! Its not a lot to ask for, but there again I dont own anything the council want to buy :P
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::)
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No-one has suggested that the entire groundworks cost only 27K, sooty - that was just the Council's contribution. ('Contribution: Something given or offered that adds to a larger whole; An amount of money given toward something')
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Well I think, that as our council has invested our money in the project, and as it is now for sale, it should be purchased by the council.
In then could be used as a hostel for the homeless
or a bail hostel
or a woman's refuge
or a day centre
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and it would then cost even more money so that it meets the relevant standards to make it suitable for any of those purposes, e.g. fire doors and sprinkler systems all round.
let it lie.
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When the amounts of monies that were to be contributed towards Seventeen Windows was published it was not at the end of the building work. Council workers were there for several weeks with plant hire equipment which SMBC would have had to hire. If I told you the world was flat! would you believe it ? I hope our MP will shed some light on the matter because the costings given were to say the least vague. To understand or rationalise the councils decision is madness, i would like to bet my bottom dollar that if i was unable to pay my community charge due to sickness or unemployment that the council would not afford me £27,000 even if it was needed to keep a roof over my head. I do not know what you do for a living Dave but to hire the type of plant equipment the council needed to hire and the length of time it was on hire to put in the drive for the owner of Seventeen Windows would have well exceeded £27,000 Do you think the £27,000 which we hear so much about was a cash incentive to sell the land and the cost of the work was not calculated into that amount?? Because I do !!!!!
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Well I think, that as our council has invested our money in the project, and as it is now for sale, it should be purchased by the council.
In then could be used as a hostel for the homeless
or a bail hostel
or a woman's refuge
or a day centre
Do i detect a hint of sarcasm there Alan?You forgot to mention a prison, Its certainly got the high fenced exercise yard :P
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Well perhaps an open prison
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to hire the type of plant equipment the council needed to hire and the length of time it was on hire to put in the drive for the owner of Seventeen Windows would have well exceeded £27,000
Of course it did - obviously the total cost of all the works will have been a great deal more than 27K. The 27K was never supposed to cover the cost of bulding the drive, or the retaining wall, or other works within the boundary of 17 Windows. That's why Cllr Alexander wrote this:
The cost of the work that has been undertaken within the curtilage of the property in stabilising the ground, regrading and replanting is £27,000.
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Why would anyone spend such a vast amount of money, including the councils 27k :P on what looks like a cheap childrens playground? It does nothing to enhance the building.also, why has any pavement widening been done? seeing as the pavement up to Hilltop Drive is not, due to the farmer wanting too much money. Shouldnt they have known that before they started? Whats the point of starting such a costly job as this when it cant be finished >:( So pedestrians are still in great danger, all the way from Hilltop, if the hype was to be believed, until they reach a little safe bit at Seventeen Windows!!!
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And you can't continue towards Stockport without crossing the road as the footpath disappears until part way up the hill!! >:(
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Barbara, the intention is that pedestrians continuning towards Offerton and Stockport will cross the road using the new crossings marked in red on this plan: http://www.marple-uk.com/misc/2022-17GA-01.pdf
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Whoopee do ::)! We Can do that without a crossing :o
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For Sale Seventeen Windows £420.000. Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas!
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Indeed, here it is :
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23851675.html
Funny how there isn't a photo of the quiet cul-de-sac the property nestles in. Location, location, location.
Use RightMove and see what you can buy in the region of £420K - £450K.
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Mmm - nice kitchen!
According to this useful website.....http://www.houseprices.co.uk/marple-road-stockport-sk2/31/
.....it sold four years ago for 138K. (Of course, it might have changed hands again since then).
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While Bridgfords may generally estimate on the high side (e.g. compared to other Marple estate agents), that's not a bad return given it was sold for £138,000 in November 2005... (Source: From the Land Registry Records)
OK, so we don't know how much "developer" money has been invested....
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Whoops - Dave is clearly a quicker typer-ist (sic) than me. Sorry for the duplicate post :-(
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I only beat you by 41 seconds, Rudolph!
The view by many contributors to this thread is that the developer will have spent quite a lot. If it doesn't fetch the asking price he may not have made a huge profit. :'(
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For Sale Seventeen Windows £420.000. Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas!
£420,000! :D Good luck with that......
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Indeed, here it is :
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23851675.html
Funny how there isn't a photo of the quiet cul-de-sac the property nestles in. Location, location, location.
Use RightMove and see what you can buy in the region of £420K - £450K.
It's amazing how the careful selection of pictures can give such a misleading impression of a house. Interesting to note there are no pictures of the traffic chaos regularly going on right outside the front door!!
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Theres still a really "Fishy smell
Blowing up Dan bank
Its not from the water treatment works
or that septic tank
Its from the amount of money spent
on that infamous path
It starts then goes to nothing
It really makes me laugh
And now weve got two crossings
Thats really rather grand
Not many people walk down there
Its a kind of No Mans Land!
Anon 2009 ;D
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Brilliant sooty2 - will nominate you as next laureate!! :D
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Love the estate agent's description - rural location - hmm right on the junction of two busy roads that are regularly gridlocked - as long as you wear ear defenders and only look out of the back windows I guess you could say it was rural!
If I was lucky enough to have £400k to spend on a house I am sure I could find a nicer one than that! (if anyone would like to give me £400k so I can prove it feel free!)
Alison
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Can't oblige this week - it wasn't us that won Euromillions!
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never mind mum - maybe tonight 'it could be me' !!!
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isnt there a poetry competition going on? enter please sooty2 ;)
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Seventeen Windows Forum and Noticeboard, How long has it been renamed? ;D
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Just to make it clear. admin jokingly changed it for a short time
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HeeHee I noticed the change too! Mind you as this seems to be the only topic being used i'm not surprised he changed it!
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shssh Tina , Its nearly a week! ;)
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Oh gosh... its been quiet on here for a week, is that a record or what?
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its gone very quiet shhhhhhhh
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and by the way... I STILL think it looks good ;) had a look on the Estate agents website and I think it looks lovely inside too! Shame I aint got any spare pennies to buy it! :P
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Unfortunately in Estate Agent jargon the 3 most important things to consider when buying a house are
LOCATION!
LOCATION!
LOCATION!
and the location is ***p
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Tina, would you really pay 420,000 pounds for Seventeen windows ?
Not a chance I would pay that for it, I wouldnt even pay 320,000 pounds for it .
There are some beautiful properties for the same price in Marple, with absolutely gorgeous views, in lovely locations, and no matter how much work has gone into seventeen windows , the views out the front of the house, and the noise etc , it would not appeal to me for that price in a million years .
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shhhh it was going quiet on here....i think it looks really good to be honest
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HeeHee Yes ****** I would!! oops I mean Pink Panther ;)
Although not at this present time as I don't have £4.50 let alone £450,000
and Glad someone agrees with me Susan, it does look nice :)
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The estate agents documents make it look so peacefull and tranquil, you would think its in the middle of no where , and the garden looks so lovely and flat .
Aaah well, good luck to whoever is selling it .
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There are plenty of genuine modern homes on estates around Marple with more character and at a more sensible price!
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Yesterday when passing footpaths and driveway and courtyard to seventeen windows were being
tarmacked . you can see alot upstairs on a bus .
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Yesterday when passing footpaths and driveway and courtyard to seventeen windows were being
tarmacked . you can see alot upstairs on a bus .
lol very true amazon, you get a bird's eye view almost!!
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Lovely pictures but that's typical of estate agents. I agree with the person who mentioned the Location p.o.v., I will really feel pitty for the poor soul who buys SW but then again they maybe used to outside traffic noise especially if they're city folk/people.
Night night ;)
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I couldnt resist mentioning that Seventeen windows now has its own illuminations ;) Perhaps a more appropriate name would be Seventeen Traffic Signals :o
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I couldnt resist mentioning that Seventeen windows now has its own illuminations ;) Perhaps a more appropriate name would be Seventeen Traffic Signals :o
lol
Still for sale, I see.
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Yes it is Moonforest, with the added bonus that the new owner only has to press a button to stop the traffic so they can easily get their car out.Every home should have one! ;D Perhaps that was part of the deal? :P Ive got my tin hat on Dave ;)
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My lips are sealed.......... :-X
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Is it just me or has the flow of traffic through Dan Bank got worse since they fitted those new traffic lights?
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Yes,it must be all those invisible prople crossing. Ive been driving down Torkington Lane twice a week for two years and cant remember seeing anyone cross.Waste of money like the rest of the so called improvements around the Seventeen Windows area >:(
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This topic is getting boaring now :-\ 20 pages is a lot
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did you read all 20 pages and THEN decide you were bored ?
I think there have been some worth while and thought provoking reads on the subject ...
boredom is a state of mind, you could always read the whole lot again, and THEN thrill yourself in the local knowledge and history of Seventeen windows that you have just learnt ..
Just a thought ......
:P
8) 8)
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This topic is getting boaring now :-\ 20 pages is a lot
pirate Princess, formerly known as 'gone', formerly known as 'twinkletoes' - welcome back! ;D
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ah, now I know why my heads in bits :'(
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This topic is getting boaring now :-\ 20 pages is a lot
No one is forced to read or comment on the topics on this forum, You have a choice ::)
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Is it true the film's due out in the summer............... ;D
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Seventeen Windows just been reduced in price by 35k if anyones interested ;D
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Think they would have to pay me to live there!! ;D
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Perhaps the cpuncil could buy the historic building and preserve it for future generations!!
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Dont you think the councils spent enough on it as it is
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Its all over I have put an offer in :P So whats the next hot topic :D
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Not so . no Offers are in . ;)
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Now that's not true !!! I have made an offer to demolish it !!
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I went pass today and there is a to let sign up
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Now who's going to be first to place an I in there!
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Is this a cryptic message?Whats a red I ? :-\
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TO I LET, and you thought the fencing was there to hide the garden!
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Ah! got it now. Takes me a while these days ;D
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Just a thought.I wonder if aged red brick cladding is available? I think that would look better on the white rendered wall, it wouldnt improve the location though or the horrible garden that looks like if doesnt belong to an old property :(
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Now that's not true !!! I have made an offer to demolish it !!
Like it good one that .
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Well I never would have believed unless i had seen with my own eyes !!!! But Seventeen Fences has been let by the Cheshire !! Lets hope its a relative of Fred Dibnah ;D
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Now that someone is considering renting the place, don't you think it's time we left seventeen windows alone, it really is getting stale.
Perhaps we should concentrate more on the political future on the elected Representatives responsible for all that has gone on by showing our decent through the ballot box, that is of course, if you don't approve of what your council tax has partially financed.
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Yes Alan, its definately stalemate! Like ive said before you dont have to read or post on this topic. You yoursellf have been a great contributor on the subject.So you are now bored by it, so am I, But it still touches a raw nerve with some people and they like to chip in now and again. Cest la vie! ;)
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Yes Alan, its definately stalemate! Like ive said before you dont have to read or post on this topic. You yoursellf have been a great contributor on the subject.So you are now bored by it, so am I, But it still touches a raw nerve with some people and they like to chip in now and again. Cest la vie! ;)
The people that rent it are car number plate spotters.
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Hey Alan my father fought for free speech ! :'(
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Well said Miss Marple. Dont know if you are being serious Amazon :) It could be possible, a house in Adswood was bought by train spotters as it was next to the track, there was a picture of them in the Evening News.
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Well said Miss Marple. Dont know if you are being serious Amazon :) It could be possible, a house in Adswood was bought by train spotters as it was next to the track, there was a picture of them in the Evening News.
;)
They work for the dlva . on six months contrack .
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Please tell me this is a wind up Amazon? Seems a bit primitive taking car numbers or is it a traffic survey? If it is true, can you say where you got the information from? The thought of the owners extracting more money from a government agency makes me see RED >:( Have I fell hook, line and sinker for this one?
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The penny has just dropped! CONTRAK and I thought it was a spelling mistake ;) Alan your post has set everyone off again ;D
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Just received a letter from Andrew Stunell regarding the costs of the works at Seventeen Windows, which reads.
Thank you for your recent email about the cost of works at Seventeen Windows. I am sorry that I didn't keep you up to date with the progress on this,which is also being pursued by another constituent. Unfortunately because of the other case,the need to give you feedback too was overlooked.
As a result of questions asked there is now a wide-ranging enquiry which may yet result in a formal complaint to the Ombudsman. I am still awaiting official notification of the scheme's cost,but will of course pass on to you as much information as possible as this matter unfolds
I hope this is of some help, I will contact you again shortly
Yours Sincerely
Andrew Stunell
IT LOOKS LIKE THERE HAS BEEN SOME DODGY DEALINGS :o WHAT DO YOU THINK ???
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I think we will just have to wait until the full story unfolds, but it's nice to see that our local MP is investigating the matter, however at this moment in time I think he's maybe got more pressing matters to attend too. But at least it shows the benefit of having a local MP.
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Wide ranging enquiry? sounds interesting!They must think something has gone on. The plot thickens.
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Andrew Stunnell might be investigating, but i bet it's not his main priority at the moment - he's currently one of the 4 Lib Dem's on their negotiation team with the Con's and Lab.
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I would have thought that all our local councillors no matter what their affiliation would be jumping on board this injustice and public waste of money. Having read posts on this forum it sounds like they can all talk the talk but can not walk the walk. As a community we should be asking how can it be right that public money was ploughed into this project that benefited a private individual when Tree Tops pre school nursery has not been given financial support from SMBC or alternative premises. Oh silly me the parents are just hard working individuals who want the best for their children, who work hard to pay taxes so that SMBC can give it away to proffit individuals.
What do our councillors say who post on this forum are you going to become proactive instead of hiding behind the mess of the election I would love to hear your views :-\
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All your local Councillors are Liberal Democrats.
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The problem is that Seventeen Windows is not in Marple, it is in Offerton. It would have been the Offerton Area committee that would have sanctioned the work on the pavement widening and probably council employees who negotiated with the owner of Seventeen windows to purchase the required land. But that is for the ongoing investigations to ascertain, together with any misappropriation of public funds, which is probably why Andrew, as the local MP, is dealing with it. I would expect local people to be aware of the local boundaries but not Oliver as he isn't from Marple!
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Thank you very much Victor. No I am not from Marple but I am the Conservative spokesman for an area which part of Marple falls into. For the record I am perfectly aware of where the ward boundaries are.
The Liberal Democrat Councillors which represent that area (Offerton Ward) are Councillors Wendy Meikle, Dave Goddard (Leader of the Council) and John Smith.
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So what are you saying Oliver ??? That historic buildings, wasted public monies and boundaries only take precedence when what- ever party is in office . Well if that is the case no wonder the country's in a mess. I would have thought that even to consider being a councillor the very basic credentials needed were Morals, Principals a sense of injustice etc etc The word not in my back yard should not spring to mind when a building or proposed eye sore is planned. IN my opinion we all have a duty to prevent further buildings from the fate of SMBC planners who have allowed the recent losses such as
The Jolly Sailor Hotel Marple, The Hollies Marple Road, High Hatherlow House, Yew Tree Farm Offerton / Marple Border,
Seventeen Windows The Barns behind Old Rectory Stockport, Cottages and buildings at Offerton Fold, Liberal Club Marple, Old Boat House Inn Canal Side Romiley, Farm House Perter St Hazel Grove, Marple Hall, Home Guard Post Top of Dan Bank Marple, Farm House Commercial Road Hazel Grove I am sure more people on this site could add to the list. Stockport Council appears to want to wipe out all of the historical buildings in Stockport and build more retirement flats Hello Stockport SMBC planning department this is a wake up call :(
O
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Of course I have morals & principles. But boundaries are crucial in terms of what committee will take any decisions over planning and which Councillors will take those decisions. Unfortunately, in my experience, the Liberal Democrats do not listen to anyone else on such matters.
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I have sat on many council committee meetings and have seen councillors committed to a cause campain tirelessly irregardless of what party, boundary or district they represent. At the end of the day all councillors have a duty to serve and protect the best intrests of Stockport residents
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There will not be an inquiry...why? because it will be found that the owner of Seventeen Windows works for the council or is very closely attached to someone from the council. There will have been a lot of whispering in corners and the passing of heavily waded brown envelopes. It will then be just brushed under the carpet.
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There will not be an inquiry...why? because it will be found that the owner of Seventeen Windows works for the council or is very closely attached to someone from the council. There will have been a lot of whispering in corners and the passing of heavily waded brown envelopes. It will then be just brushed under the carpet.
Well lets hope our elected councillors will now listen and if there has been some dodgy dealings wouldn't any public spirited committee members want the truth to come out and lets hope it does so before someone else profits by selling land to make way for a cycle track. Question ??? Cycle track or pre school education :'( strange the money can be found to profit individuals but not educate our children or provide a safe environment while their parents work to throw more money into the councils coffers. And before anyone says the money is from wherever to fund the cycle track I DON'T CARE !!!! What I do care about is hard working people being taken for a ride !!! Hopefully not up the cycle track which the council is still negotiating with the farmer on the sale of land. This has to stop wherever the money is from it is unthinkable that our elected councillors, committee members and SMBC planners seem to think that they can just throw it away on a whim. SHAME ON YOU ALL WHO HAVE THE POWER TO INFLUENCE CHANGE !!
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Unfortunately Miss Marple the Tories under Margaret Thatcher constrained councils by law so that they were NOT allowed to transfer money from one allocation to another, even though it made sense in that district to spend the allocated money on something else. Any comments Oliver or was it before your time?
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Well let them go cap in hand to wherever they applied for monies from for the stabilisation of Dan Bank and the devastation of Seventeen Windows and request monies for useful causes such as pre school education and restoration of building of historic intrest. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !!!!!!
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Victor I can tell you clearly want to attack me personally and simply put I will not dignify that kind of base and unhelpful politics.
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Moreover, those particular laws were passed in order to prevent the rogue Labour councils such as Liverpool City Council (which was publicly condemned by Kinnock himself at the time) from playing politics with local council services and funding. Simply put they were necessary during the 80s and 90s - I would argue that nowadays they are probably outdated but I make no pology for their introduction due to the conditions of the time when they were introduced.
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Thatcher and our "Degsy" - the father and mother of all our troubles.
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Do you remember Degsy on Century FM a few years back - classic!
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Was he talking about Seventeen Windows? ::)
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I see you question was not answered Sooty 2 and the topic of Seventeen Windows that should have caused controversy and public outrage was skipped over very nicely ??? but that about sums up our candidates elected or not I also know that quite a few councillors read this forum and they haven't had much to say even though they would have probably sat on the committee that signed off such a embarrassing amount of money to proffit an individual. I also note that the issue of pre school education has also not been commented on.
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I love your spirit Miss Marple and hope questions get answered. At least Oliver is on here and contributing. If other councillors read this forum but don't contribute then that makes them stalkers and lurkers that are avoiding important issues. I still believe that Seventeen Windows is owned by someone from the council, Joe Bloggs would never had got so much money.
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At the end of the day, Miss Marple is right - as politicians seeking to get elected or those already in office we must act on constituents behalf to ask questions and get answers - we aim to serve you the public - something all too often that gets forgotten nowadays.
Miss Marple - you are clearly very knowledgeable about this issue and if you would like to comprehensively outline your concerns, then even though it is some distance out of my area that I am spokesman for, I would gladly do some digging for you and take it up. You are more than welcome to post a reply on here or alternatively send me an email at hgconservatives@btconnect.com
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Unfortunately Miss Marple the Tories under Margaret Thatcher constrained councils by law so that they were NOT allowed to transfer money from one allocation to another, even though it made sense in that district to spend the allocated money on something else. Any comments Oliver or was it before your time?
Come off it Victor M, if you can't speak without sarcasm, don't speak at all. At least Mr Johnstone
had a go to try and improve things in Marple, and he will succeed eventually
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I would like to know what he (Oliver) has achieved in Marple, he only seems to have been active on this site immediately prior to the local council elections.
What I was trying to point out was that since the 1980's Councils have only been allowed to spend government grants in the areas that the grant was allocated. They are not allowed to take it out of one expenditure stream and use the money elsewhere.
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I would like to know what he (Oliver) has achieved in Marple, he only seems to have been active on this site immediately prior to the local council elections.
I'm not convinced that 'being active on this site' should be equated with achieving things in Marple. On the contrary, maybe those of us who are active on ths site might achieve more if we got out more! ;)
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explain what you mean .got out more .
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I was replying to Alan's statement "At least Mr Johnstone had a go to try and improve things in Marple". Just wanted to try and ascertain what he had attempted to improve in Marple.
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explain what you mean .got out more .
Spent less time at our computers :D
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Now, Now boys no sqaubbling ;D
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At the end of the day, Miss Marple is right - as politicians seeking to get elected or those already in office we must act on constituents behalf to ask questions and get answers - we aim to serve you the public - something all too often that gets forgotten nowadays.
Miss Marple - you are clearly very knowledgeable about this issue and if you would like to comprehensively outline your concerns, then even though it is some distance out of my area that I am spokesman for, I would gladly do some digging for you and take it up. You are more than welcome to post a reply on here or alternatively send me an email at hgconservatives@btconnect.com
Hello Oliver sorry it has taken so long to reply to your last post. Firstly I would just like to say that I take exception to members on this forum who appear to challenge everything you say, in my opinion if they put the same amount of effort into becoming proactive in issues which effect our area instead of always being so negative they might just be able to reverse some of the terrible decisions which have been made recently by our pro property developer loving planning dept. I like to use the term arm chair socialists but couch potatoes seems more fitting in this case. I am not bothered as to which party you are affiliated too, but take my hat off to you for at least showing intrest not only in this web site but for Marple and surrounding areas. Getting back to your post to me whereby you offer to do some digging into the development of Seventeen Windows. I think that is a very good idea as there are questions which need to be asked. It may intrest you to know that a reporter from the local press reads this site but when I contacted him to ask him to investigate the dodgy dealings he never did which to me even makes the Seventeen Windows scam even more intresting. I suggest Oliver if you have not already done so to read back over the 24 pages on the subject of Seventeen Windows, all the information you need is well documented by myself and other members of this site. When you have read it Oliver I am sure that you will be as outraged and angry as i am at the blatant dealings which have taken place behind closed doors. I hope to hear from you soon, after hopefully you have familiarised yourself on the subject of the Seventeen Windows scandal. . You will, I hope be as outraged and intrigued as I am as to how one man, Ken Harrop of SMBC planning dept was able to negotiate with a private individual the sale of land to provide the owner of Seventeen Windows with a drive and landscaped garden in return for 3 meters of land plus a hefty amount of money, all at the expense of SMBC residents. If this is right for this type of private dealing to be undertaken I for one want it stopping. I am aware that the posts on this site is 24 pages but I think Oliver that you will be fascinated at the information you will acquire to start your investigations . HAPPY DIGGING :-X
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Just for the record I have spoken personally to Ken Harrop SMBC planning officer around 8 months ago and that is where I gained my information from. Ken Harrop informed me that he felt that they had got a good deal from the owner of Seventeen Windows and appeared to see nothing wrong with all the landscaping and driveways they undertook for the owner as well as paying the owner a large amount of money for 3 meters of land. Now I am not good with metric measures but I will challenge anyone who can see where the foot path is now 3 meters wider, given that the gargen wall was put back exactly where it had origanally been. A cynical person may well say that the new traffic lights was for the benefit for the owner of Seventeen windows to allow him/her to get off the drive but I will keep my opinions to myself and await the ombudsman findings :-\ Preston Guild springs to mind WHY !!!! :-[
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I will keep my opinions to myself
That'll be the day! ;)
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I will keep my opinions to myself
That'll be the day! ;)
And your point is Dave ???
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At the end of the day, Miss Marple is right - as politicians seeking to get elected or those already in office we must act on constituents behalf to ask questions and get answers - we aim to serve you the public - something all too often that gets forgotten nowadays.
Miss Marple - you are clearly very knowledgeable about this issue and if you would like to comprehensively outline your concerns, then even though it is some distance out of my area that I am spokesman for, I would gladly do some digging for you and take it up. You are more than welcome to post a reply on here or alternatively send me an email at hgconservatives@btconnect.com
Hi Oliver I have not heard from you since you said you would do some digging into the dodgy dealings surrounding Seventeen Windows. Just thinking given the time it is taking would it be more beneficial if you possibly exchanged your shovel for a JCB :-\ Hey just a thought !!!
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Watching this in anticipation but noting the silence in response to Miss Marple's post!
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Watching this in anticipation but noting the silence in response to Miss Marple's post!
AS i said in posting some weeks ago Tories only see them at election times
Hear to day gone tomorrow
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Oliver ! I am getting quite concerned because I have not heard from you for quite sometime. I do hope you made it clear to all concerned when you were "doing some digging" into the dodgy dealings of the finances surrounding Seventeen Windows, that you are not involved in cash for questions :-\ My God Oliver !! what have they done to you ? are you to be buried under the proposed cycle track ;)
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Oliver ! I am getting quite concerned because I have not heard from you for quite sometime. I do hope you made it clear to all concerned when you were "doing some digging" into the dodgy dealings of the finances surrounding Seventeen Windows, that you are not involved in cash for questions :-\ My God Oliver !! what have they done to you ? are you to be buried under the proposed cycle track ;)
And have the tory posters been removed from dan bank yet .
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O-LIV-ER ? O-LIV-ER ? Where are you?
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IF you wanted to contact Oliver you could PM him via this forum or even via his email adress which he posted earlier on the thread..
or would that spoil the point you are trying to make?
::)
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I've already done that some time ago, so Oliver should be aware that there are a couple of topics where people are awaiting his contributions. Obviously it is up to him whether he responds to them and for the rest of us to draw our own conclusions if he doesn't.
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fair enough!
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I personally am not trying to make a point. OJ very keenly made his first post on 21st April in the run up to the election and continued to do so regularly. Seems odd that he has just dissapeared after. I dont suppose we serve any purpose to him now its over. If I was him I would post to explain my absense or at least try to pacify the forum members with an update of his progress or not as the case maybe. Using people will not make him popular. if that is not the case, stand up for yourself Oliver. Ive changed my mind ;) yes I am trying to make a point now!
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I personally am not trying to make a point. OJ very keenly made his first post on 21st April in the run up to the election and continued to do so regularly. Seems odd that he has just dissapeared after. I dont suppose we serve any purpose to him now its over. If I was him I would post to explain my absense or at least try to pacify the forum members with an update of his progress or not as the case maybe. Using people will not make him popular. if that is not the case, stand up for yourself Oliver. Ive changed my mind ;) yes I am trying to make a point now!
Hear, hear!! Oliver is fast becoming conspicuous by his absence.
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Is any one really surprised hes disappeared? I thought it was quite good that he actually came back and made a post AFTER the election.. unless I got my days mixed up ;D
I am also impressed that he managed to actually work out that this forum is a powerful place to contribute opinions and canvas support... first one thats worked it out isnt he ? Lets give him SOME credit ;)
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WHY?!!! >:(
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Was he the real Oliver or an imposter? :o
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... one of the laurel bushes is already dead. I wonder how many of the others will die off if they're not being cared for properly during this dry spell ....
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I have just received a letter from Andrew Stunell MP. Its a reply from SMBC complaints department in relation to questions raised by Andrew Stunell of costs in relation to the associated cost of the scheme. The letter reads as follows -
The overall cost of the scheme that includes both the works required to widen the footpath along the frontage of Seventeen Windows and the provision of the junction improvement that includes the new pedestrian crossing facility was £271K. The cost of the retaining wall and associated earthworks was £140K and the cost of the landscape works within the curtilage of the property was £27K
Well Well !!!! Suprise Suprise !!!!! looks like there should be a few apologies from some people on this forum to Sooty2 who maintained throughout this long running saga that a private individual had proffeted from council coffers !! Well now the proof is in letter form ! and hopefully Mr Stunell will continue to question the blatant waste of public monies surrounding Seventeen Windows :-X
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No surprise to me Miss Marple! Going back to post 202 via Shan Alexander, The Seventeen windows briefing note states, The cost of the work undertaken within the curtilage of the property in stabilising, regrading and replanting is 27K. When in fact the actual cost of the retaining wall and associated earthworks was 140k plus 27K for landscaping, total 167K. >:((This is not value for money.They could of bought the whole property for 138k, Widened the pavement, provided vehicular acess and sold it on. It would of been worth a lot more than 138k with acess, even in it's run down condition. It is about time someone got their house keeping in order at the Town Hall. It's been one long expensive joke at our expense. It stank over 12 months ago and stinks even more now. It's an ugly,weed covered eyesore! Thanks to Miss Marple we now no the truth, but it would be interesting know why this was ever given the Green light, no pun intended ;D
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a private individual had proffeted from council coffers !!
Well, a developer bought the property in 2005 for 138K, did it up, and sold it four years later. That's what developers do. Not sure what he sold it for - does anyone know? The asking price was 420K, subsequently reduced to 385K. So let's guess 370K, i.e. about 230K more than he paid for it. Now, he will have spent a lot of money of his own doing up what appeared to be a very dilapidated property. Obviously we can have no idea how much he spent, but 150K would not surprise me. So yes, he probably made a profit, but he also put at risk 138K of his own money, plus what he spent on the refurbishment works. Is that unreasonable?
If the Council had not wanted to widen the pavement and install the pedestrian crossing, the developer would still have done up the house, landscaped the garden, and sold it on. If you want to show that he profitted from the Council's contribution, you would need to demonstrate that 17 Windows would have fetched less than 370K, had the council's contribution not been made - i.e. if the pavement widening and construction of the pedestrian crossing did not take place. I think that's pretty hard to prove.
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You really need to check your facts Dave. The property was not done up until 2009.With I may add, a great big helping hand from the council.No one in their right mind would by that property with no access.Unless of course the price was right. The property is not sold, it is tenanted.
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I'm aware that the works took place in 2009, and I did not suggest otherwise. What I did not realise is that it has not yet been sold.
So the developer still owns 17 Windows. So, far from 'profitting from council coffers', as Miss M suggests, he has yet to make any profit at all! ::)
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The property has changed ownership since 2005.But whoever owns it has still had the benefit of £167k of public money. The improvements only began when the the massive cash injection was given. That property would never reach full market value without access.There was no risk to the developer knowing what he knew. Had it not had access approved it would of been sold on again through auction.They should be forced to tidy it up. The gateway to Marple looks a mess. >:(
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No, it's still for sale: http://www.bridgfords.co.uk/content/006_Results/002_Property/property-sales-rpsBRG-MAT070281-1279535572
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I said 3 posts back that it wasn't sold. So why are you telling me its for sale? I know! To the People on this site I apologise for this petty squabbling that I have been drawn into ::)
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Sooty...why do you think that Dave's reply is targeted at you? It is not even addressed to you! I took Dave's reply as a response to the most recent postings.
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Nick.The last seven posts are fom Dave and I. If he is not replying to me, which post is he replying to?
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I said 3 posts back that it wasn't sold.
Indeed you did, Sooty, but then you wrote:The property has changed ownership since 2005.
I am simply clearing up the confusion. The developer seems to have acquired it in November 2005, and it has not changed hands since.
The main point I have been trying to make, however, has been in response to Miss Marple's suggestion that the developer has 'profited from council coffers'. In fact he has not made any profit at all, yet.
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Shall we say the owner has benifitted from 167k of work and will profit from it when sold?
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Correction !!!! The property has changed hands at least three times. The last family member who had occupied the house for many years passed away and the house went to auction FACT !! Once purchased from action the then owner put it up for sale without attempting any renovation or exterior work FACT !! It was then purchased by a chap who tried to renovated it himself but due to ill health could not continue (FACT) My son was at the time looking for a property and made enquiries at the estate agents but the asking price was around £340.00 and then in a real state due to major works having been started but not finished. My son felt the house, given the present state was vastly overpriced FACT !! The house was once again sold to yet another builder who started to undertake not only cosmetic repairs like the previous owner. but major inside structural alterations (remember the split down the full Lenghth of the building that had to be pinned due to structural changes) FACT!! Then once again the house stood empty and ALL BUILDING WORKS CEASED !! the poor builder appeared to have taken on a project in need of far more money than he was willing to spend !! THEN !!! and only then came along the property developer who purchased the building (after it had been stood for months and months half finished ) did his dodgy dealings and acquired a landscaped garden, compensation for a couple of inches of land, a cess pit installed and a drive in and out plus much much more , paid for out of the council coffers. You only have to ask yourself that if everything was above board then WHY OH WHY is our local MP following the case very closely and has informed me by letter that the Case is being referred to the financial ombudsman !!! I sometimes wonder if I am on a parelell universe when I am on this site Beam me up PLEASE !!!!
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Do a search on this normally reliable website. The postcode of 17 Windows is SK2 5HF. You'll see that the property has not changed hands since 24 November 2005, when the developer who did it up (i.e. presumably the present owner) bought it. http://www.nethouseprices.com/
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DODGY DEALINGS ! I rest my case :-\
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I await the ombudsmans findings brfore casting judgement..... :(
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Has this fiasco definately been referred to the Ombudsman. I think the correct ombudsman is the Local Government Ombudsman and not the Financial one. The property is now up for sale, I have seen the listing on the Right Move. com website, it is priced at £400,000. There are also some pictures of the interior that you may find interesting. This matter if not already referred to the Ombudsman should be without delay. The Council should not have spent such a vast sum of money stabilising the banking, it is after all private property. What evidence was there to suggest that it needed doing in the first place. In connection with the whole scheme, how many people have you seen using the new footpath and pedestrian crossing facility. What a enormous waste of money. I can hardly wait to see the final outcome.
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Hello Beverly, You only need to look at the photos in post 183 to see that the great mound of earth thats there now, certainly wasn't there in the past. It' s man made.When the right hand side of the building was demolished years ago the land would of been flat, it wasn't a split level building.But is seems not many people care about the the huge cash injection given to the owner ,or what an eyesore it is. As for the crossing??? words fail me in this economic climate.
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Has this fiasco definately been referred to the Ombudsman. I think the correct ombudsman is the Local Government Ombudsman and not the Financial one. The property is now up for sale, I have seen the listing on the Right Move. com website, it is priced at £400,000. There are also some pictures of the interior that you may find interesting. This matter if not already referred to the Ombudsman should be without delay. The Council should not have spent such a vast sum of money stabilising the banking, it is after all private property. What evidence was there to suggest that it needed doing in the first place. In connection with the whole scheme, how many people have you seen using the new footpath and pedestrian crossing facility. What a enormous waste of money. I can hardly wait to see the final outcome.
Do you think we will ever will see the final outcome.
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In short - No!
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Not sure anyone's posted this before, but here's a nice before+after comparison, showing all the renovation work the good people of Stockport seem to have paid for.
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9984/10268559.jpg)
(http://195.157.37.69/brgpic/MAT070281_10.JPG)
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Thanks for that input SGK. 167k of public money wasted on a landscaped garden. (So called)?What exactly needed stabilising?That wasn't created by man? I know which photo I prefer.
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You don't see many people using the new pedestrian crossing and footpath at the moment, apart from a few kids on their way to Marple Hall. Of course, if/when Offerton High School closes, there could be a whole lot more of them!
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Thanks for that input SGK. 167k of public money wasted on a landscaped garden. (So called)?What exactly needed stabilising?That wasn't created by man? I know which photo I prefer.
Me too, sooty, and it isn't the "landscaped" one!
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Miss Marple has asked me to post the following response that she has received from Stockport Council after making a formal complaint:
Dear Ms "Marple" (name changed).
Having read your email, it looks like you are making an official complaint, as you are unhappy that tax payers' money has been used to carry out the work that you consider is unnecessary and has benefited the land owner.
The issues you have raised can be addressed at Stage 1, please could you confirm if you are wishing to make a formal complaint.
The Local Government Ombudsman is still investigating this complaint, and therefore the Council cannot disclose any further information regarding the issues raised, due to reasons of confidentiality (until a final decision has been made).
Yours sincerely
Ms C Heywood
Information Business Manager
(Directorate Complaints Officer)
Improvement Management Services
Hygarth House
103 Wellington Road South
Stockport
SK1 3TT
Tel: 474 4269
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So one of the powers that be has thought the Seventeen Windows saga was worth taking to the Local Government Financial Ombudsmen. They must think some injustice has been done.I would like to know who it was. Andrew Stunnell has quoted that another constituent has made a complaint a while ago.Lets hope for a favourable outcome!I am pretty sure the current owner will not have to repay the money he has been gifted.But care should be taken when running fast and loose with other peoples money in the future. Whatever the outcome a great injustice has been done, and will forever attract the wrath of the PEOPLE!!!!
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Has this fiasco definately been referred to the Ombudsman.
Yes it has !
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Miss Marple has now passed this on to me to share with anyone else who would like to make a formal complaint to the council:
Dear Ms "Marple" (name changed)
Here is the link to the Council website page which advises on the way that residents may contact us with regard to complaints, etc. It contains a link to the Council complaints Booklet which explains the process, and includes a copy of the complaints form.Alternatively, the form is available on the 'Tell us what you think about our services.' Please let me know if you need any further information.
Yours sincerely
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/councildemocracy/yourcouncil/complaintsabouservices/corporatecomplaints/contactingus
Ms C Heywood
Information Business Manager
(Directorate Complaints Officer)
Improvement Management Services
Hygarth House
103 Wellington Road South
Stockport
SK1 3TT
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I have sent my complaint and urge others who feel outraged at the waste of public money to do the same. The whole plan is to widen the footpath all the way to Hill top drive. Can you imagine the costs involved with the purchase of more land? I still can't beleve that councill planners allowed those awful fences to be erected and to make it worse PAID for THEM!!
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Well done Sooty 2 !!! Lets hope that others on this site see the injustice at such a waste of tax payers monies ??? I have already complained and have also sent another letter to Andrew Stunall to ask where all our elective Representatives were when this application was put before the council area committee.
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Just noticed that the beautiful, in my opinion,Himalayan Balsam has set up home in the garden of Seventeen windows. Hooray! nature working it's magic to enhance the mess created by man :)
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Just noticed that the beautiful, in my opinion,Himalayan Balsam has set up home in the garden of Seventeen windows. Hooray! nature working it's magic to enhance the mess created by man :)
Is there hopefully any chance of it completely covering Seventeen Windows if we give it dose of plant food :-\
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Lets hope that others on this site see the injustice at such a waste of tax payers monies ???
Where's the 'injustice' in installing a pedestrian crossing and widening the pavement to make the junction and the walk to school safer for the ever-increasing number of Marple Hall schoolkids? At a cost (200K) which is not exceptional for this kind of work. If it saves one life it will have been a bargain!
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Where's the 'injustice' in installing a pedestrian crossing and widening the pavement to make the junction and the walk to school safer for the ever-increasing number of Marple Hall schoolkids? At a cost (200K) which is not exceptional for this kind of work. If it saves one life it will have been a bargain!
maybe people who object to it do not have children who walk to school? I have started walking to Stockport and back so I'm grateful for the widening of the pavement.
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I'm a bit confused. Looking at the 2 pictures I can't see where the pavement has been widened; it looks the same on both pictures.
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Post 202 contains a very informative briefing from Cllr Shan Alexander, but to save you looking it up (it's a long way back!), here is a key excerpt:
•The existing footpath was narrow along the frontage to the property being between 0.9m and 1.2 metres wide placing pedestrians in close proximity to passing traffic.
•The property owner offered to dedicate to the council land on the frontage of the property such that the footpath width could be widened to a maximum of 3.2 metres.
Although it can't really be seen in the above photographs, the footpath is now wider than it used to be (although to my eyes the only bit that looks as much as 3.2 metres wide is on the Marple end of the property)
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Am I mistaken, or does the footpath on the uphill side (towards Stockport) actually not exist at all for a few yards as it rounds the bend? ???
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That's correct Barbara. It all seems pointless! The only widened bit of pavement is near the crossing. ::)
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the footpath disappears into the hedge! God only knows why the hedge could not have been cut back and the pavement carried on! When I walk to Stockport, to avoid the risk of being run over or squashed by vehicles I have to use the crossing then either walk up Marple Old Road or cross over to where the pavement begins again. The widening of the pavement and the crossing only cater for people who walk down Marple Old Road then use the crossing, it is certainly not catered for people who want to stick to the main road whilst walking to Offerton or Stockport. I think brain cells were in very short supply when this was planned!
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This thread is now so long that we're in danger of forgetting what has gone before! The whole point is that pedestrians going towards Offerton will cross the road at the new crossing and then walk via Marple Old Road! You could only continue the footpath on the other side by buying a strip of land from the farmer (if he was prepared to sell)
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Dave, Peple have been able to cross at the lights and use Marple Old Road before this vast amount of money was spent ::)So whats new?
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You could only continue the footpath on the other side by buying a strip of land from the farmer (if he was prepared to sell)
Hardly a strip of land....more like a few yards!!!
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Dave, Peple have been able to cross at the lights and use Marple Old Road before this vast amount of money was spent ::)So whats new?
What's new is that it's now a lot safer.
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If the council had purchased 6ft of land opposite seventeen windows all the way down to Dooley Lane, then the road could have been widened so as to allow a sufficiently wide filter lane turning left into Dooley Lane.
As it is now vehicles doing so tend to mount the pavement so as to get past Marple bound traffic, putting pedestrians at risk and damaging others wing mirrors
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Alan, see the letter from Cllr Bispham (post 171) where he writes: 'We also looked at purchasing a strip of land at the bottom of Dan Bank to widen the road and provide an extra lane for traffic turning towards Romiley but the farmer simply wanted too much.'
However, also see posts 202 and 204 for information about plans to improve some of the rest of the footpath, and install a pedestrian crossing at the Dooley Lane junction next year.
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i agree with improving the footpath down to Marple Garden centre all so to include a crossing at the junction .i use public transport and crossing from the bus stop going down and coming from the garden centre is not easy . .
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I'm a bit confused. Looking at the 2 pictures I can't see where the pavement has been widened; it looks the same on both pictures.
YES ! YES ! He's got it ! Has anyone else ??? Dodgy dealings or what !!! :-\
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I'm a bit confused. Looking at the 2 pictures I can't see where the pavement has been widened; it looks the same on both pictures.
YES ! YES ! He's got it ! Has anyone else ??? Dodgy dealings or what !!! :-\
I was going to comment, but all I can muster is a sort of gutteral sigh.
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I have now recieved a reply to my official complaint to the council.Pathetic! Don't know if people who complained recieved a standard reply or not. But mine had no relevance to my complaint. Not surprised though, Cut and Dried >:( Better to have fought for the cause than do nothing.Where's it going to end?To think that people run fast and loose with other peoples money really annoys me. They should ,if they were honest, treat the money as their own and budget accordingly.Honest days pay for an honest days work! ::) ::) ::)
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I have now recieved a reply to my official complaint to the council.
Come on then sooty - aren't you going to tell us what it says?
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I would tell you what it says if it was in reply to my complaints. But I think their reply should of gone to someone else.They say that I am concerned about the whole cost of everything,Strenghthening, widening,trafiic signals etc etc and that I would like the whole scheme abandoning. I don't think I could bring that about ;D. Of course we need the road brought up to standard. My concerns are ,and always will be about the money involved in Seventeen windows and it's ugly eyesore of a garden which is a scruffy mess >:(
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This is an interesting webpage:
http://www.standardsforengland.gov.uk/
Also:
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2010/09/councillor-misconduct-to-be-a-criminal-offence/
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If they haven't addressed your complaint then why not write back to them and tell them so?
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This is an interesting webpage:
http://www.standardsforengland.gov.uk/
Also:
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2010/09/councillor-misconduct-to-be-a-criminal-offence/
Hmmm, very interesting Alan. So the Communities Minister (who happens to be our MP) is concerned about taxpayers' money being wasted by 'frivolous complaints'. ("Stunell said: ‘The Standards Board regime ended up fuelling petty complaints and malicious vendettas. Nearly every council had investigations hanging over them – most of which would be dismissed but not before reputations were damaged and taxpayer money was wasted.'") ::)
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I would tell you what it says if it was in reply to my complaints. But I think their reply should of gone to someone else.They say that I am concerned about the whole cost of everything,Strenghthening, widening,trafiic signals etc etc and that I would like the whole scheme abandoning. I don't think I could bring that about ;D. Of course we need the road brought up to standard. My concerns are ,and always will be about the money involved in Seventeen windows and it's ugly eyesore of a garden which is a scruffy mess >:(
I think we should move on from whether you think it's an ugly eyesore.. because that is only your opinion. (And you are entitled to it of course)
For what it's worth, I quite like it. Some of us are pretending it was a beautiful garden before.. It wasn't. It was an overgrown mess, but all of this arguement is of no consequence.
However.. please post the reply!
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If they haven't addressed your complaint then why not write back to them and tell them so?
I have wrote back ,but the sender is on holiday for two weeks,it was an auto reply.I see there are some very high paying jobs on that website alan. As for the garden once being an overgrown natural mess,its now a manmade overgrown mess.
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If they haven't addressed your complaint then why not write back to them and tell them so?
..As for the garden once being an overgrown natural mess,its now a manmade overgrown mess.
I'm not sure why you are misquoting me.. it's right there for you to see.
Your auto-reply simply advises you that the person you have emailed is away. They will get your email upon return and will hopefully act accordingly.
I will ask again.. why won't you post the Council's actual reply ? and maybe even your original letter of complaint?
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Tricky,Have I missed something?How have I mis-quoted you? I cant post my complaint to the council as it was on one of their complant forms and would not save.I wish I had it, so that I could refer to what I had written to them,I also know what an auto reply is Thanyou ::)
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Sooty, with regards to the complaint forms, not being saved I agree it is very annoying.
What I do is to fill out the form then copy and paste it to Word or Works
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Thanks for that Alan,I will do that in future if need be,
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Andrew Stunnul the communities minister has been pro active concerning the Seventeen Windows saga, Informing us of a wde ranging enquiry and the case being passed to the Ombudsman.Thats very encouraging from a man who says lots of complaints are petty and cost a lot of tax payers money.
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Tricky,Have I missed something?How have I mis-quoted you? I cant post my complaint to the council as it was on one of their complant forms and would not save.I wish I had it, so that I could refer to what I had written to them,I also know what an auto reply is Thanyou ::)
I didn't use the word natural or manmade (sic).. that's all. I simply referred to the land which Seventeen Windows sits on as being an overgrown mess.
(before any of the building work started)
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Tricky, Natural was my description, I did not say that you said it,Just going for a long sleep now, YAWN ZZZZZZ
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Andrew Stunnul the communities minister has been pro active concerning the Seventeen Windows saga, Informing us of a wde ranging enquiry and the case being passed to the Ombudsman.
I don't think this case could be considered by the Local Government Ombudsman, because the Ombudsman only deals with allegations of alleged personal injustice, where the claimaint is seeking a remedy or compensation on their own behalf. Examples might be in education (e.g. child given a place in a school miles away, when there is one next door), or social care (e.g. granny not receiving enough financial support for her care home). Unless, sooty, you are wanting Stockport Council to award you financial compensation for the pain suffered every time you pass Seventeen Windows. ;)
General complaints about local authorities are dealt with by Standards for England - the organisation Stunnell is planning to abolish!
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Dave, I have been informed by the council in reply to my complaint that seventeen windows is beng investigated by the LGO and are awaiting the outcome.I am also told that they cannot uphold my complaint as the council has made their decisions to approve the scheme and the complaints process cannot intervene on this matter,All seems rather pointless having a complaints procedure >:(
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Well if that's what the Council have told you, then it will be very interesting to see what the Ombudsman has to say.
Meanwhile, have a look at the Local Government Ombudsman website: http://www.lgo.org.uk/. There are pages there entitled 'What we can look at' and 'What we can't look at'. One of the issues listed in the latter section is 'Something affecting all or most of the people living in a council’s area, such as a complaint that the council has wasted public money', which to me sounds like your complaint.
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Thanks for the link Dave,It was Andrew Stunnel who informed us all about the case being investigated months ago, He said he was dealing with another constituents complaint,but we don't know the nature of the complaint or who it was from.
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All seems rather pointless having a complaints procedure >:(
O yea of little faith !!!!
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It was Andrew Stunnel who informed us all about the case being investigated months ago, He said he was dealing with another constituents complaint,but we don't know the nature of the complaint or who it was from.
In that case we probably won't hear any more about it. When someone submits a complaint to the LGO, normally it's only them, and maybe their advisers (e.g. MP, or Citizen's Advice Bureau) who are notified of the outcome.
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It was Andrew Stunnel who informed us all about the case being investigated months ago, He said he was dealing with another constituents complaint,but we don't know the nature of the complaint or who it was from.
In that case we probably won't hear any more about it. When someone submits a complaint to the LGO, normally it's only them, and maybe their advisers (e.g. MP, or Citizen's Advice Bureau) who are notified of the outcome.
I will post the reply when I receive the outcome of the inquiry from Andrew Stunnel I am one of the constituents who raised my concerns directly with Andrew Stunnel about the amount of tax payers monies spent on Seventeen Windows. The matter is currently being investigated by the Ombudsman and no update will be given I have been informed until the inquiry is over. I think that the very fact that this matter is being investigated by the ombudsman gives some idea of how seriously the matter of Seventeen Windows is being taken due to the financial implications
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I remain mystified as to how the LGO can possibly be considering a complaint, submitted by Andrew Stunell on your behalf, Miss M, about...
... the amount of tax payers monies spent on Seventeen Windows.
....when the LGO's own website says quite clearly that they cannot investigate 'something affecting all or most of the people living in a council’s area, such as a complaint that the council has wasted public money'.
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I'm a bit confused. Looking at the 2 pictures I can't see where the pavement has been widened; it looks the same on both pictures.
YES ! YES ! He's got it ! Has anyone else ??? Dodgy dealings or what !!! :-\
Looking at those pictures you won't see any difference.. a silly post considering the comment was about the pavement widening and the pavement isn't actually in the pictures.
Here is a link to the actual plan of work (from Nov '08).. you can clearly see the line of the previous wall, the width of the previous pavement AND the line of the new wall and width of the pavement area.
Interestingly, you can also see the new sight lines for drivers, which makes the whole junction safer - not only for pedestrians but for drivers too.
http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=147478 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=147478)
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Do you recon they bought them the porsche that's on the drawing as well! ;D
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I remain mystified as to how the LGO can possibly be considering a complaint, submitted by Andrew Stunell on your behalf, Miss M, about...... the amount of tax payers monies spent on Seventeen Windows.
....when the LGO's own website says quite clearly that they cannot investigate 'something affecting all or most of the people living in a council’s area, such as a complaint that the council has wasted public money'.
Its a Little bit more than wasting tax payers monies that's being investigated! You would probably have look back through all the posts regarding Seventeen Windows, as it sometimes appears to me that people have been selective when reading the posts and go on the defence just for the hell of it >:(
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I'm a bit confused. Looking at the 2 pictures I can't see where the pavement has been widened; it looks the same on both pictures.
YES ! YES ! He's got it ! Has anyone else ??? Dodgy dealings or what !!! :-\
Looking at those pictures you won't see any difference.. a silly post considering the comment was about the pavement widening and the pavement isn't actually in the pictures.
Here is a link to the actual plan of work (from Nov '08).. you can clearly see the line of the previous wall, the width of the previous pavement AND the line of the new wall and width of the pavement area.
Interestingly, you can also see the new sight lines for drivers, which makes the whole junction safer - not only for pedestrians but for drivers too.
http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=147478 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=147478)
Well Tricky, I AM sorry if you thought that was a silly post; I can clearly see a pavement in both pictures.
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Its a Little bit more than wasting tax payers monies that's being investigated!
OK Miss M, then tell us what else you complained about.
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Dave, please read post 394 regarding the Ombudsmen. It clearly states there is an investigation.
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There seem to me to be two main issues to this topic (cutting through all the banter and exchanges of insults). One is the appearance of the property before and after. Some think it's an improvement and others think it's a disaster but these are just opinions and people will always differ on that. Personally I think it looks better now than it did before they started work but we can debate that forever (and probably will).
But the other issue is that there may have been some kind of financial wrongdoing. Miss Marple has written to Andrew Stunnell and he replied that the case may be referred to the Ombudsman - not because of Miss Marple's complaint but because of one by "another constituent". See reply 321. We do not know the nature of this other complaint.
When Miss Marple made a formal complaint to the council herself she received a reply that confirmed that "The Local Government Ombudsman is still investigating this complaint", which I posted for her on the forum. Reply 394. I don't believe this reply suggests that the LGO is investigating as a result of Miss Marple's complaint but that there is already an ongoing investigation on the subject of 17 Windows. We can only speculate what this is about (and probably will) but according to Ms C Heywood, Information Business Manager, (Directorate Complaints Officer), Improvement Management Services, Stockport Council, the LGO IS investigating something.
Miss Marple - how long is it since your last reply from Andrew Stunnell? Perhaps it is time for you to write again and ask for an update. Ask him to confirm that an investigation is underway and to provide you with any details that he can, as he promised in his earlier letter to you.
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Sooty, I've had another look at post 394, but it doesn't answer my question. Miss M wrote 'Its a Little bit more than wasting tax payers monies that's being investigated', and I asked what the 'little bit more' was.
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I have written again to Andrew Stunell for an update around two months ago and I am still awaiting a reply. I will email again this evening to find out what is happening. I do although know that it is being investigated due to Andrew Stunell informing me of that in a previous letter in which he also stated that the councillors involved were also to be questioned. I will keep you informed of Andrew Stunells reply ::)
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Hi, I currently have a complaint with Stockport MBC about seventeen windows and it is being investigated by a senior complaints office Anwar Majothi. I have asked him specifically to investigate: -
• the scale of the work was unnecessary, benefited the developer, was against public opinion and was at a considerable expense to the tax payer
• an acceptable degree of safety work could have been achieved at a more cost effective price had the application for relocation of the property’s vehicular access not been a part of the works
• What alternatives were considered when the decision was taken, and assuming that alternatives were considered, on what basis and justification was this option chosen?
• Who decided that the taxpayer should fund the building of the wall, the planting of laurels and the use of gabions rather than the property owner and how was this decision justified?
the investigation should take around 4 weeks and I'll keep you posted as to the findings. If anyone has more information for him or further questions then he can be contacted on anwar.majothi@stockport.gov.uk
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Dave, I have been informed by the council in reply to my complaint that seventeen windows is beng investigated by the LGO and are awaiting the outcome.I am also told that they cannot uphold my complaint as the council has made their decisions to approve the scheme and the complaints process cannot intervene on this matter,All seems rather pointless having a complaints procedure >:(
Did you not recieve a letter similar to mine?part of which is included in above quote
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I wonder whether our esteemed MP Andrew Stunnell had just this kind of thing in mind when he referred here http://www.communities.gov.uk/news/newsroom/1719857
.....to 'frivolous complaints' and 'vendettas' causing taxpayers' money to be wasted? ;)
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Andrew Stunnell is involved.So he can't see it as Frivolous or a Vendetta.
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No MP, whatever they really think, is ever going to turn round to a constituent and tell them that their complaint is frivolous, because that will just lose them votes. So they (or rather, the people who write their letters) humour complainants by refererring them to the 'proper channels' while quietly hoping that they will lose interest and go away. For example:
I have written again to Andrew Stunell for an update around two months ago and I am still awaiting a reply. I will email again this evening to find out what is happening.
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the scale of the work was unnecessary, benefited the developer, was against public opinion and was at a considerable expense to the tax payer
Against public opinion, you don't speak on my behalf.
Just because the more sensible and measured members of the forum don't come on here moaning at every opportunity doesn't mean you are right by omission.
I really can't see any problem with it personally, and I think it is laughable that so many of you are pretending to be our very own public spending watchdog, then fire off numerous complaints /FOI's et al which take considerable time and money to reply to.
I can give you Stunells / local Govt response ' sorry mate, its done now, get over it, there is an election in may vote for someone else'
What are you expecting? Really?
For them to drag it down, reinstate the rotting window frames and weeds, make it totally uninhabitable and then narrow the road and make it harder for children on the way to school to navigate?
Then moan about the cost, how unsightly it is? how someone will get knocked over one day?
Andy
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Andy. If your'e so sensible and measured why don't you exercise your right not to read posts in a topic you find so annoying.You have a choice! Obviously people are interested in the outcome of Seventeen Windows win or lose.Thats why this topic is fast approaching 28000 views.It's easy,Don't view new posts in seventeen windows.
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Spot on Andy
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Well said Andy. Marple has a population of about 24,000. A handful (maybe five or six?) have expressed their dislike of the Seventeen Windows works on this forum, for various reasons. A few others have joined in and said they like it, or don't care either way. The remaining 23,976 have remained blessedly silent. Doesn't sound like 'against public opinion to me! ;)
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He obviously does not read the Marple forum to see what the residents of Marple are talking about.
Well Marple has about 24,000 residents, and about six of them have been talking about it on this thread! The remaining 23,994 of us are holding our tongues and waiting until the work is finished before we make our minds up. However, I must say I have been quite shocked by some of the things which have been written here about the pavement widening. The idea that safeguarding the lives of kids walking to Marple Hall School is a 'waste of money' appalls me. >:(
This forum has 316 members not 24000 and approx 130 of them have never posted. I cant be bothered counting how many people have posted on this subject, but its a lot more than six.
Just thought I'd remind you Dave, of post 136, you are one of the most active posters on the Seventeen windows topic. thanks Dave ;)
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Dave. so in post 136, 23994 were holding your tongues ;D Not bad for a person who has posted at least 40 times on the subject! :o You certainly know how to fuel a fire.
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The reduction from 23994 to 23976 must be because of the 18 who have been bored to death by this thread :D
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The reduction from 23994 to 23976 must be because of the 18 who have been bored to death by this thread :D
Could I make a suggestion ??? If you or any other members are bored by this topic ! don't read or comment on it, I for one enjoy this topic and await the findings I am sure there are plenty more topics you could comment on ;)
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It still looks as bad in 2011 ! Well no it doesn't it looks flippin worse ! Have you seen the state of the gardens !! ???
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I never look at the gardens - I always seem to be staring the other way up Torkington Road in case there's any 'comings and goings' going on (if you catch my drift.......nudge nudge etc) ;D
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I never look at the gardens - I always seem to be staring the other way up Torkington Road in case there's any 'comings and goings' going on (if you catch my drift.......nudge nudge etc) ;D
Dave, you're not our mystery driver are you? Perhaps you're so distracted by the goings on, going on on Torkington Road that it's you holding all the traffic up!! ;)
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It still looks as bad in 2011 ! Well no it doesn't it looks flippin worse ! Have you seen the state of the gardens !! ???
I have to say, if I'd bought a house and decorated it to my taste, I'd not be pleased if a load of Nimby's went on a computer forum slagging my wallaper off. If you care that much, make the fella an offer nad move in yourselves.
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It still looks as bad in 2011 ! Well no it doesn't it looks flippin worse ! Have you seen the state of the gardens !! ???
I have to say, if I'd bought a house and decorated it to my taste, I'd not be pleased if a load of Nimby's went on a computer forum slagging my wallaper off. If you care that much, make the fella an offer nad move in yourselves.
HELLO !!!! its rented ??? Have you bothered to read the thread before commenting :o
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HELLO !!!! its rented ??? Have you bothered to read the thread before commenting :o
Maybe Duke didn't have three weeks to spare...... ;)
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HELLO !!!! its rented ??? Have you bothered to read the thread before commenting :o
Maybe Duke didn't have three weeks to spare...... ;)
Do you know you have missed your way !! You could have been a comedian :-\
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It still looks as bad in 2011 ! Well no it doesn't it looks flippin worse ! Have you seen the state of the gardens !! ???
I have to say, if I'd bought a house and decorated it to my taste, I'd not be pleased if a load of Nimby's went on a computer forum slagging my wallaper off. If you care that much, make the fella an offer nad move in yourselves.
HELLO !!!! its rented ??? Have you bothered to read the thread before commenting :o
HELLO!!!! nice to get a welcome. I'm sure the owner is the one whoee spennt the money on making imporovements, I'd not expect him to publically slag off my herbatios borders.
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Hey Duke Fame !! You got it in one ??? Don't think so >:(
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Duke Fame, I gather from some of your posts you object to the council wasting your money. Seventeen windows and it's eyesore garden and multi fencing cost a lot of your money. £164k is that o.k with you? Because it's not with me!
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Duke Fame, I gather from some of your posts you object to the council wasting your money. Seventeen windows and it's eyesore garden and multi fencing cost a lot of your money. £164k is that o.k with you? Because it's not with me!
Well said !! I could not have put it better !! maybe Duke Fame will agree when he has read the thread and he may also feel the injustice when he finds out about the cycle track which will cause a lot of tree felling and bring untold amounts of traffic through Marple and Otterspool with its proposed road widening scheme which will allow heavy lorries better access on to Otterspool Road The cycle track is to put our environmental friends off the scent of the devastation which is about to happen on our lovely entrance to Marple (Dan Bank)
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Come on Miss Marple, the improved turning into Otterspool Road from Marple will not attract any more HGV traffic due to the weight restriction already on Strines Road. Most of the HGV traffic comes via Torkington Road.
Marple traffic should find it easier to go straight on at the junction instead of being held up behind traffic turning right.
The cycle lane will actually help the flow of traffic as they won't have to wait behind me as I slowly cycle up the hill.
In fact these latest works are probably the only bit that makes sense, apart from the work stabilising the road.
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Duke Fame, I gather from some of your posts you object to the council wasting your money. Seventeen windows and it's eyesore garden and multi fencing cost a lot of your money. £164k is that o.k with you? Because it's not with me!
Well said !! I could not have put it better !! maybe Duke Fame will agree when he has read the thread and he may also feel the injustice when he finds out about the cycle track which will cause a lot of tree felling and bring untold amounts of traffic through Marple and Otterspool with its proposed road widening scheme which will allow heavy lorries better access on to Otterspool Road The cycle track is to put our environmental friends off the scent of the devastation which is about to happen on our lovely entrance to Marple (Dan Bank)
Quite right, Miss M, you didn’t put it better yourself, your post was quite confusing.
I appologise but being a recent immigrant to Marple and brand new to this site I haven’t had a chance to read all the background to the 17 windows issue.
The answer is no, I don’t like public money being spent on a private dwelling. I couldn’t care less if it’s pretty or not, just not happy about it being my money.
As for the idea that there will be heavy lorries, I don’t see that any lorry driver is going to think to himself, I know, I’ll take a short cut through Marple. It’s a pain in the you know to get in and out, the only lorries going to use the road are going to do so through necessity.
I’m not that sure about cycle lanes. Councils were given grants for cycle ways back in the 80’s & 90’s but since been neglected. On my old route to work the cycle lane has am ‘anti bike’ barrier across two parts of it.
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Duke, Lets get one thing straight. If you are new to the area you don't know me personally or as a forum contributor. I am not a so called nimby!Seventeen Windows is in Offerton,hardly near my back yard. I object to planning departments giving the go ahead to unsympathetic restorations to buildings and landscaping be they listed or not. I also object to the fact that public money was used to fund landscaping and fencing for a private dwelling, in exchange for a strip of land that is niether here nor there.You have a lot to learn or are you just a wind up merchant?I like a bit of winding up it gets people going and can be healthy when it leads to discussion, ideas and other input.But your kind of wind up ,from someone who spouts off about issues you know nothing about makes me laugh. I have never mentioned his decorating or aything else inside his property I don't give a flying Fig.I do not wan't to see ill passed plans or gifting to individuals in Marple, Offerton or anywhere else in my country. Next issue Mr Fame? P.s the website has a spell checker for all to use.I find it curteous to forum members that posts are easy to read.
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? P.s the website has a spell checker for all to use.I find it curteous to forum members that posts are easy to read.
Wow, 'courteous' is clearly a word close to your heart, Duke suffers with mild dyslexia, maybe you would benefit from using a dictionary to find out the true definition of that word and practice what you preach with the spell checker.
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Duke, Lets get one thing straight. If you are new to the area you don't know me personally or as a forum contributor. I am not a so called nimby!Seventeen Windows is in Offerton,hardly near my back yard. I object to planning departments giving the go ahead to unsympathetic restorations to buildings and landscaping be they listed or not. I also object to the fact that public money was used to fund landscaping and fencing for a private dwelling, in exchange for a strip of land that is niether here nor there.You have a lot to learn or are you just a wind up merchant?I like a bit of winding up it gets people going and can be healthy when it leads to discussion, ideas and other input.But your kind of wind up ,from someone who spouts off about issues you know nothing about makes me laugh. I have never mentioned his decorating or aything else inside his property I don't give a flying Fig.I do not wan't to see ill passed plans or gifting to individuals in Marple, Offerton or anywhere else in my country. Next issue Mr Fame? P.s the website has a spell checker for all to use.I find it curteous to forum members that posts are easy to read.
Fair enough Bless, what I should have done is appologise for being new to Marple and this forum, maybe say something like “I appologise but being a recent immigrant to Marple and brand new to this site I haven’t had a chance to read all the background to the 17 windows issue.”
Without appreciating it was public money spent on the property, it appeared that the complaints were all about the owner’s taste in design. Putting the issue of public money to one side, I thought it a bit off that the guy was being slated for his landscaping when after all, he’s the one who has to live in the property.
Now, having taken in the situation, I agree, the council should not be wasting our money somebody’s garden. Again, I should have posted something along those lines i.e. “I don’t like public money being spent on a private dwelling. I couldn’t care less if it’s pretty or not, just not happy about it being my money.”
OK, I’m a bit new and sometimes cliques form and it’s hard to get acceptance. What I tried to do was address the issues with humour in a slightly irreverent way. In making you laugh, I’ve clearly achieved and whilst I don’t a expect thanks, it’s nice to know I’ve brightened u your day, you’re very welcome.
On the spelling issue, I didn’t realize there was a spell checker, no wonder I received such a ‘curt’ reply ;-). I’m often typing blind as when responding to a long post, the words being typed are not always visible.
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Getting back to the heart of this topic - what is happening with the Local Government Ombudsman's investigation into 17 Windows? Those of you who have been corresponding with Andrew Stunell and the council, isn't it time you asked for an update if you haven't had anything recently? How long does a LGO investigation take for goodness sake!
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Getting back to the heart of this topic - what is happening with the Local Government Ombudsman's investigation into 17 Windows? Those of you who have been corresponding with Andrew Stunell and the council, isn't it time you asked for an update if you haven't had anything recently? How long does a LGO investigation take for goodness sake!
I contacted Andrew Stunell and have been promised a copy of the findings which has not apparently been upheld so the constituent in question has been advised to go to the next stage
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Getting back to the heart of this topic - what is happening with the Local Government Ombudsman's investigation into 17 Windows? Those of you who have been corresponding with Andrew Stunell and the council, isn't it time you asked for an update if you haven't had anything recently? How long does a LGO investigation take for goodness sake!
I contacted Andrew Stunell and have been promised a copy of the findings which has not apparently been upheld so the constituent in question has been advised to go to the next stage
Hasn't all the work been done, isn't is a little too late?
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No the investigation is into the misuse of public monies to profit an individual :-\
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Forgive if I’ve missed a bit but as I see it, the local authority proposed to do work on the bottom of Dan Bank which would mean some encroachment onto the land owned by 17 windows man.
He said, that he doesn’t want to give up his land, he’s paid for it etc etc.
The council have said you’ll have to, we’ll get an order if we have to.
Owner’s said, that will cost you, I suppose I could do you a deal. I’ll need compensating and the noise is going to increase so I want a sound proofing fence and Everest windows. Plus I’ll need a gate and you’re going to mess up my garden so you’ll have to put that right.
The council, being generally staffed by wth willing unemployable have not been too good at negotiation, they have said OK, we’ll do that for you.
The Owner has also said, BTW that land is going to cost £££££ too so let me have a cheque.
Again the council have said OK.
Given a compulsory purchase order would take ages and cost loads, they may have been right to do as they have.
Is that about right? If so, I think it’s better to accept it and not add any more cost.
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Forgive if I’ve missed a bit but as I see it, the local authority proposed to do work on the bottom of Dan Bank which would mean some encroachment onto the land owned by 17 windows man.
He said, that he doesn’t want to give up his land, he’s paid for it etc etc.
The council have said you’ll have to, we’ll get an order if we have to.
Owner’s said, that will cost you, I suppose I could do you a deal. I’ll need compensating and the noise is going to increase so I want a sound proofing fence and Everest windows. Plus I’ll need a gate and you’re going to mess up my garden so you’ll have to put that right.
The council, being generally staffed by wth willing unemployable have not been too good at negotiation, they have said OK, we’ll do that for you.
The Owner has also said, BTW that land is going to cost £££££ too so let me have a cheque.
Again the council have said OK.
Given a compulsory purchase order would take ages and cost loads, they may have been right to do as they have.
Is that about right? If so, I think it’s better to accept it and not add any more cost.
Kinda.
The hope is that the investigation will put an end to such speculation, by placing the facts in the public domain.
Something that should have been done in the first place.
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Post by Beverley Hills
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I have just received the latest newsletter about the planned 'improvements' to the Dan Bank / Dooley Lane junction. It has prompted me to update myself with the comments made about Seventeen Windows. I feel compelled to write about the results of the complaints made to The Local Government Ombudsmen and in particular the Council Complaints Officer. To reject a complaint made about a Councils inappropriate spending of public funds on the basis that the Council approved the spend is a nonsense. It in effect means that the Council are not responsible to anyone and can spend as and when they like on whatever scheme they wish with no comeback whatsoever. Beverley hills
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Thanks BS, I was hoping Beverley H would do that herself but no worries.
I'm going to introduce a ban on 17 Windows being mentioned in any other thread as the wisecracks are becoming a little tiresome - I may not be the only one who feels like that. Either I will edit out the reference or more likely delete the entire post if it is mentioned in other topics.
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To reject a complaint made about a Council's inappropriate spending of public funds on the basis that the Council approved the spend is a nonsense. It in effect means that the Council are not responsible to anyone and can spend as and when they like on whatever scheme they wish with no comeback whatsoever.
The reality is, Beverley (and Blessedly), that it is just your opinion that the spending on the works at 17W was 'inappropriate'. Your opinion is perfectly valid, but no more so than mine or any other resident's. The remit of an LGO investigation is nothing to do with the opinions of residents. Instead, it examines whether proper procedures, due process etc were followed, that a properly constituted and quorate Council committee took the decision, and it was accurately minuted, etc etc etc. If a properly reached decision happens not to be in accordance with the preferences of some residents, then that is a matter for councillors to explain to those residents, and if it comes to it, answer for at the next election. :o
As well as being answerable to us residents, as the voters, local authorities are also answerable to the Audit Commission, which inspects their work. Here is a link to the most recent inspection report on SMBC. http://oneplace.audit-commission.gov.uk/infobyarea/region/area/localorganisations/organisation/pages/default.aspx?region=53&area=455&orgId=1543
For what it's worth, I think Duke Fame's post above is probably a neat summary of what happened.
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For what it's worth, I think Duke Fame's post above is probably a neat summary of what happened.
I concur.
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For what it's worth, I think Duke Fame's post above is probably a neat summary of what happened.
I concur.
+1
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For what it's worth, I think Duke Fame's post above is probably a neat summary of what happened.
......except that I've just remembered that the owner gave SMBC the strip of his garden, rather than selling it to them. At least I think he did (but I'm not going back through 489 posts to check :D
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For what it's worth, I think Duke Fame's post above is probably a neat summary of what happened.
......except that I've just remembered that the owner gave SMBC the strip of his garden, rather than selling it to them. At least I think he did (but I'm not going back through 489 posts to check :D
Again, if I was giving something away, I'd like to think I was getting something back. May just save on solicitors fees etc if we give it away and get a bit of gardening done in return. Avoids a bit of tax etc.
It looks a little geared in Mr 17 windows favour but hey, he held the cards in the first place.
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I have just read a book set around the 1900's supposed to be a factual reminisence of the author as a young boy. He states that Seventeen Windows was an inn at that time. I have never heard this before and wonder if his memory was playing tricks when he wrote the book (he was about 90!). Can anyone confirm this either way?
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Everyone on this site has been privy to information concerning Seventeen Windows. Sadly the general public who do not use this site have no idea whatsoever re the funding of the landscape gardens, the drive in drive out drive and the extensive no essential work that was undertaken by SMBC. When I speak to people they are horrified when they find out about how much of tax payers monies was spent on the project which in turn profited an individual. If the facts surrounding Seventeen Windows had been published there would be more than a handfull of local people complaining about the situation. Lets face it even Andrew Stunall was not aware of the excessive spending until it was brought to his attention. Once aware he started own investigations into the amount of monies spent as did several other councillors. As i have already said we are still awaiting the findings along with other intrested parties as soon as I have a reply I will post it
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I'm getting even more confused now :o I thought we already had the outcome of the LGO investigation:
I feel compelled to write about the results of the complaints made to The Local Government Ombudsmen and in particular the Council Complaints Officer. To reject a complaint made about a Councils inappropriate spending of public funds on the basis that the Council approved the spend is a nonsense.
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The above post was actually written by Beverly Hills. Admin split her post into two, widening of Dan Bank/ Seventeen windows.He moved the first part of her post,but not the second.So I moved it for her, so it shows myself as the author.
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I'm getting even more confused now :o I thought we already had the outcome of the LGO investigation:
I feel compelled to write about the results of the complaints made to The Local Government Ombudsmen and in particular the Council Complaints Officer. To reject a complaint made about a Councils inappropriate pending of public funds on the basis that the Council approved the spend is a nonsense.
That was an investigation at Local Level the case has been passed over to a higher level of investigation supported by Andrew Stunall and other concerned councillors from the Offerton area committee. Everthing has to be investigated first at local level, which is a bit of a nonsense really, because its local government investigating themselves. A few local constituents have demanded it be taken to the financial Ombudsmen in big city :o
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Well Blessedly/Beverley describes it as 'the result of the complaints made to the Local Government Ombudsman'. That seems clear enough to me.
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I'm getting even more confused now :o I thought we already had the outcome of the LGO investigation:
I feel compelled to write about the results of the complaints made to The Local Government Ombudsmen and in particular the Council Complaints Officer. To reject a complaint made about a Councils inappropriate pending of public funds on the basis that the Council approved the spend is a nonsense.
That was an investigation at Local Level the case has been passed over to a higher level of investigation supported by Andrew Stunall and other concerned councillors from the Offerton area committee. Everthing has to be investigated first at local level, which is a bit of a nonsense really, because its local government investigating themselves. A few local constituents have demanded it be taken to the financial Ombudsmen in big city :o
The trouble is, once you've had a further investigation, it's goin g to cost even more money thatn hte cost of a bit of gardening. It's all coming out of our pockets at the end.
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It should have never have been allowed to have happened without proper consultation with all intrested parties. The hope is that the investigations will ensure that it does not happen again and more control and responsibility is given to accountability of the council coffers >:( especially when some of it is my hard earned monies >:(
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Perhaps Blessedly Silent, who started this thread a long time ago, could put it out of its misery if she could clarify her message from Beverly Hills:is the Ombudsman's investigation now completed, and was the complaint indeed rejected?
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Dave, The post belongs to BH, I know nothing about her information. As far as I know the case is still ongoing.BH pops up now and again, 3 times I think? and has not said where the info' came from.
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A touch belatedly but perhaps we can all take a moment to congratulate Dave from recently achieving Hero Status (over 500 posts). This will have been achieved in no small part by this thread (I just hope Miss Marple and Blessedly Silent don't try and emulate his feat).
Dave, I salute you :)
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Thanks Rudolph - that's very kind. I must admit I was aware of this milestone, although I found myself half thinking '500 posts - why don't you get a life!' ;-)
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A little info you might like to know.
I have been told that the majority of the funding for works at 17w came from a European grant/fund to encourage children to walk to and from school safely. This certainly wasn't the case before, kids were dodgeing cars crossing the road and the footpath on the bend was very narrow.
I wonder what some of you might be saying if the work had NOT been done and some poor kid had been run over?
It seems fairly obvious to me that the new junction is vast improvement and instead of whineing about monies spent we should be thanking SMBC and mr17
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Before this goes any further "Oldhand" I think I should clarify that when registering for the forum you told me that YOU are the owner of 17 Windows. Having told me that I would expect you to make that clear to everyone yourself. If you are the owner then you should be in a position to clarify a lot of facts figures and present the case from your view but you certainly haven't done that with your first post.
I'm beginning to despair with this topic and others discussing serious issues that descend into 90% tittle-tat and sniping at each other without adding any value to the debate. Is it too much to ask to ask for people to express their opinions and views and to respect each others views and opinions without insulting each other? Perhaps not but I am am starting to find it all rather tedious and I'm considering locking this topic and maybe even taking it off line.
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Hear, hear!!
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I'm not sure if we really need a declaration of interest in every post. It’s nice to hear from someone with a differing view. I think in part, that is why I’ve been so popular since joining the forum.
I can’t say I agree with a European waste of money any more than I agree with a Stockport council waste of money, it all comes out of our pocket. I’ve not noticed an increase in kids walking to school, I think we have to accept that parents have become far too soft on their kids in molly coddling them, driving them to school. It really does cause terrible congestion and kids are becoming horribly fat.
I so think, however, if the council wanted to take Oldhand’s land off him, he’s quite right to force a good deal for himself and it seems to get an improved pavement for kids.
I’m not sure how it works but for those of you who have children, maybe you should have a little collection and buy Oldhand a gift of thanks.
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Post by Admin
If you really wanted to stir things up you might want to think about this comment. When Sooty2 first made it I thought "don't be daft, that can't be right!" but I spoke to someone last night with information to suggest that it is absolutely correct. I was told that the council are paying for ALL the landscape works as part of the pavement widening scheme. That would seem to be a bit of impressive negotiation for a thin strip of land :o
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This was not Tittle tattle it is happening now!
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There was no negotiation. SMBC told me what they wanted and I told them what I wanted in return. No money exchanged.
Sorry to dampen your fire Miss Marple but there were no dodgy dealings
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There was no negotiation. SMBC told me what they wanted and I told them what I wanted in return. No money exchanged.
Sorry to dampen your fire Miss Marple but there were no dodgy dealings
Well I for one is happy if that's the case ! I have spoken in depth to Ken Harrop SMBC who told me that you did receive money so i am confused now ??? But I would prefere to await the findings :-X
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I'm considering locking this topic and maybe even taking it off line.
After 5,000 posts and 33,000 viewings, Mark, maybe the the time has at last come for this thread to become 'blessedly silent'. ;)
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After 5,000 posts
Sorry, I meant 500 posts, of course (it just feels like 5,000!) ;D
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:-\ Why would anyone want to stop a well read popular post which has introduced more members and has highlighted so much information and interesting debates .
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Miss Marple. You have got your lines crossed somewhere. Ken Harrop SMBC (highways dept) didn't tell you that money was paid because none was, the land was given FOC and that is fact.
PS. Could you clear something up for me Miss M. Please?
In reply to Daves question asking you if it is you in the photograph you reply that you're only 23 and yet many posts on you say that your son was interested in buying 17w.
Did you start your family early or is he a quick learner?
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:-\ Why would anyone want to stop a well read popular post which has introduced more members and has highlighted so much information and interesting debates .
So that you can get to bed before 01.08 a.m., and catch up on your beauty sleep, Miss M. ;)
In reply to Daves question asking you if it is you in the photograph
Not me guv - I would never ask a lady such a cheeky question. ;D
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Hi Dave I was supporting my local hostelries last night so had the munchies when I got home. So what better to end the day than cheese on toast and a good read ;D
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Well I for one is happy if that's the case ! I have spoken in depth to Ken Harrop SMBC who told me that you did receive money so i am confused now ??? But I would prefere to await the findings :-X
Are you linked in anyway with the council Miss Marple, as I seem to be reading quite a lot of threads where you have 'spoken in depth' to them?
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I am pleading the 5Th Albeit to say I am a person who never believes the hype and endeavours to seek out the truth. Hence the name MISS MARPLE !!!!
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I am pleading the 5Th Albeit to say I am a person who never believes the hype and endeavours to seek out the truth. Hence the name MISS MARPLE !!!!
Aren't you a drain on their resources though? I mean your interest in Klondikes, I can understand if you were buying a house there, but I don't think you are? I was under the impression that they had public meetings to address people with issues, rather than devoting one on one time to people that seem to be constantly ringing them and don't seem to have a vested interest. ::)
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I am pleading the 5Th Albeit to say I am a person who never believes the hype and endeavours to seek out the truth. Hence the name MISS MARPLE !!!!
Aren't you a drain on their resources though? I mean your interest in Klondikes, I can understand if you were buying a house there, but I don't think you are? I was under the impression that they had public meetings to address people with issues, rather than devoting one on one time to people that seem to be constantly ringing them and don't seem to have a vested interest. ::)
Well did you know the dangerous ?? and if you did do you not have social conscience to alert people of the potential hazards Its not just about the houses its about the water table which may affect me and mine somewhere down the line and that's of PARAMOUNT!!! interest to me. What you see or what your told is not always the truth. Its what they call BIG BUSINESS but I like to call it MY BUSINESS !!
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I am pleading the 5Th Albeit to say I am a person who never believes the hype and endeavours to seek out the truth. Hence the name MISS MARPLE !!!!
Aren't you a drain on their resources though? I mean your interest in Klondikes, I can understand if you were buying a house there, but I don't think you are? I was under the impression that they had public meetings to address people with issues, rather than devoting one on one time to people that seem to be constantly ringing them and don't seem to have a vested interest. ::)
Well did you know the dangerous ?? and if you did do you not have social conscience to alert people of the potential hazards Its not just about the houses its about the water table which may affect me and mine somewhere down the line and that's of PARAMOUNT!!! interest to me. What you see or what your told is not always the truth. Its what they call BIG BUSINESS but I like to call it MY BUSINESS !!
It certainly explains why the council are so over-staffed. I wonder if it’s the council mis-management of ridiculous demands of the electorate that makes the council taxes so high. Either way, I’m paying for it and I object.
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Seems to me that none of this is relevant to 17windows and I'm quite suprised that nobody has anything interesting to say or questions to ask about 17w.
Most posts now go off the subject completely and I think the time has come for admin to pull the plug.
But before it goes I'd like to thank you all for providing me with such entertainment (however speculative and misinformed) for well over a year now.
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Yes, I have to agree with you Oldhand, this topic has run its course and nobody appears to have anything new or informative to say, including yourself. I thought that the owner joining in would bring new impetus to the discussions but that hasn't happened.
Miss Marple - if/when the findings of the LGO investigation are available, or you get a proper response from Andrew Stunell or the council then I will be delighted to post it here on your behalf.
This topic is now locked.
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I think Marple needs and deserves a complete change
Are you unhappy with Andrew Stunnell? Why?
Think shes gone of him could be something to do with Seventeen windows . lack of info that was not forth coming . ;)tis the season of good will lalalalalaa .
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What is seventeen windows?
Please read this thread...............
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