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Archive => Archived Boards => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Dave on October 23, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
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Apathy rules as the date approaches for the election of our first Greater Manchester Police and Crime Commissioner on 15 November. It's barely three weeks way now, but excitement is hardly at fever pitch yet. Even the five candidates are finding it difficult to show any interest, judging from the fact that only two of them have so far bothered to post their pre-election statement. ::)
Here they are, if you really want to know any more: http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/greater-manchester/
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Apathy rules as the date approaches for the election of our first Greater Manchester Police and Crime Commissioner on 15 November. It's barely three weeks way now, but excitement is hardly at fever pitch yet. Even the five candidates are finding it difficult to show any interest, judging from the fact that only two of them have so far bothered to post their pre-election statement. ::)
Here they are, if you really want to know any more: http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/greater-manchester/
A really bad idea for which there is no call. The Police Authority with its greater accountability does the job perfectly well.
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I find it very sad that most of the candidates have been put up by a political party. As I understand it, some parts of the USA stop national parties having anything to do with local elections - maybe we can learn from this.
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I find it very sad that most of the candidates have been put up by a political party.
I couldn't agree more. Policing should not be a political matter. One of the two who has bothered to post a statement says 'my number one aim is to cut crime. I want to make Greater Manchester a place that criminals fear and residents feel safe'. Is anyone going to say anything different? Like 'Cutting crime is well down my list of priorities. I want to make Greater Manchester a place where residents live in fear and criminals feel safe'. ::)
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I find it very sad that most of the candidates have been put up by a political party. As I understand it, some parts of the USA stop national parties having anything to do with local elections - maybe we can learn from this.
I could not agree less the police are part of society, although they often think they are above it, and just as other parts of our civic life are organised politically so should be the police. I want a Police Commissioner that comes with a particular set of principles and philosophises. I can only get that via the politically process not via some jonny come lately independent who is answerable to one.
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I can assure you wheels that police officers dont think they are above society,they are very much a part of society and do a fantastic job. :o
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I can assure you wheels that police officers dont think they are above society,they are very much a part of society and do a fantastic job. :o
Yip agree some very good police officers .
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I can assure you wheels that police officers dont think they are above society,they are very much a part of society and do a fantastic job. :o
Yip agree some very good police officers .
Of course there are going to be good polivce officers but as an institution the the police leave a great deal to be desired.
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Wheels writes: 'A really bad idea for which there is no call. The Police Authority with its greater accountability does the job perfectly well'.
But then he writes: 'I want a Police Commissioner that comes with a particular set of principles and philosophises.'
It's called having it both ways - you should be a politician wheels - maybe you are ;-)
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Wheels writes: 'A really bad idea for which there is no call. The Police Authority with its greater accountability does the job perfectly well'.
But then he writes: 'I want a Police Commissioner that comes with a particular set of principles and philosophises.'
OK perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with "If I we have to have a Police Commissioner I want one .....
It's called having it both ways - you should be a politician wheels - maybe you are ;-)
No I am not I just think that they are a much malined profession.
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The reason for the appointment of a Commissioner for the Police is quite simple! The government are cutting expenditure on police forces throughout the country and they are simply trying to evade responsibility and pass the buck - in more marginal seats an electorate will always elect a councillor (or police commissioner) to protest against the policy of the party in power at Westminster (which presents me with political dilemma - the LibDem councillors in Marple do a super job but there is no way I will vote for a LibDem while they have an MP who put the Conservatives into power). Your MP will be able to say get lost: not my responsibillity but just as a favour to you I will bring the attention of problems to the commissioner, get my salary for saying on the day of the General Election that the LibDems are the only way to keep out the Conservative Party and on the following day saying we support the Conservative Party's pledge to cut government spending and national debt and damn the consequences of reducing expenditure which protects us from crime. The MP will even boast that he has helped you by putting a note in the local rag that comes through the letterboxes. I know nothing about the independent candidate (other than the info he provided on the internet) but I shall be voting for him because I abhor the idea of a candidate of any political persuasion overseeing the Police. If things go wrong with the police force the appropriate government minister should be the person who should sort things out! If we agree with his/her course of action this enables us to decide whether an existing government should or should not be elected next time round.
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any of us think the existing Police Authority was doing a perferctly good job and with just as much if not more accountability.
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I agree. And the notion that there is any political distinction to be drawn between the five Greater Manchester candidates is just laughable. :D For example, on this site http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/greater-manchester/
....the LibDem candidate writes 'I want to put more Bobbies on the frontline', whilst the Tory candidate writes 'I want to protect front line policing'. Does that help anyone to decide who to vote for? And what does the Labour guy say, you might well ask? No idea, because ex-MP Tony Lloyd hasn't bothered to post his statement yet - and I gather that he is regarded as the favourite ::)
It's completely bizarre to be appointing people to be responsible for the police on the basis of their politics. I agree with marplerambler, when s/he writes I abhor the idea of a candidate of any political persuasion overseeing the Police. If things go wrong with the police force the appropriate government minister should be the person who should sort things out!
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Better a political candidate than some independent.
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Why?
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Because a political figure bring an underlying philosophy to the role be they Liberal, Socialist or whatever. Some principles to tie them to their decisionmaking process. A non political does not have that anchor and might potentially drift about with the popular prevailing mood of the public.
Popularism is not a good basis for decision making.
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OK wheels, have a look at the statements of the political candidates here: http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/greater-manchester/
...and find me a single sentence which distinguishes any one of them from the others on the basis of political principle. Not counting the Labour guy, whose political principle appears to be 'can't be bothered' ;)
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But Dave I don't think the statements matter, at least not to me, I will vote for the candidate who political party philosophy I agree with that's whats important not statements put out at election time.
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Let me expand on that Dave with an example 56% of all deaths in road traffic accidents in Greater Manchester are of pedestrians or cyclists, that's the highest in the country and clearly needs addressing. I believe addressing it can only come from one parties political philosophy, thus I would vote for that philosophy.
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Let me expand on that Dave with an example 56% of all deaths in road traffic accidents in Greater Manchester are of pedestrians or cyclists, that's the highest in the country and clearly needs addressing. I believe addressing it can only come from one parties political philosophy,
And which party is that?
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Dave we are not discussing here how I voted, why do you want to know in any event.
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Because I don't believe for a moment that only one political party would want to reduce pedestrian and cycling accidents, and I'm amazed that anyone would believe such a thing!
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Dave we are not discussing here how I voted, why do you want to know in any event.
A lot of people will have been lucky if they knew who to vote for. With the lack of information
And so called leaflets that a lot of people don't seem to have had .
I don't see why it needs to be made an issue it's a shambles .
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But you haven't gone out and asked why very few people were informed who the candidates were have you
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Now it seems to me Dave that I have gone out and sought the answers to questions which I consider to be impotant in these election and based on my knowledge of each of the parties have reached a decision. Have a I done something wrong in your eyes.
Of course not - what an odd thing to suggest!
Regarding the candidates' responses to wheels' question, they confirm what I pointed out, which is that all the candidates will say they are committed to reducing accidents - it's like asking them whether they believe in 'motherhood and apple pie' - you would hardly expect them to say they don't! As for the specific issue of '20's plenty', that is something for local authorities, not the police, whose job is to enforce laws, not to make them.
The way petrols going up they won't be many cars on the road shortly .
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So given that all answers are always in this sort of election going to be broadly the same leaving the elector unable to distinguish between candidates what is the point of the election. The Police Authority was doing a perfectly good job at a fraction of the cost. Yet another ridicules Tory idea with a 13% turnour what mandate does this person have in any event.
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Exactly! We agree for once, wheels :D
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Exactly! We agree for once, wheels :D
Oh dear I better rethink my line