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Author Topic: May train timetable- changes to commuter services  (Read 825 times)

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CllrGeoffAbell

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2018, 05:32:42 PM »
The issue is caused by a lack of Northern diesel units. There has been delays in electrification in both the South West and North West which means that they have surplus electric trains and not enough diesels.

Its very disappointing that Marple and Rose Hill rush hour trains are being cut from the timetable as a result. However, this must have been agreed by Stockport Council and TfGM.

Can any councillors advise if representation has been made?


As far as i know, you can use Marple/Rose Hill tickets to either station, i certainly have never had a problem.

Details and frequency of service are basically Northern's responsibility.  (Although they had to promise an increase in number and length of trains to get the franchise in the first place.)  They did promise an upgrade to an hourly Sunday service to Sheffield.  But I am not on TfGMC any more so don't see all the detail. 
And @Dave you are right - there was a meeting with the man in charge of the new Northern fleet and we are probably getting 150/1s.  But they will have WiFi and they are not Pacers!

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 11:48:15 AM »
Hopefully they'll be able to shave some time of the stopping services.

Phil

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 11:41:35 AM »
Oh, not even our line then!

:(

Sorry; as you were...

RH.

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 11:00:09 AM »
Sounds great.  For the express trains that only stop at Stockport anyway!

Phil

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 09:29:02 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-43061765

Hold on tight for the east-bound thrill ride of the 19th Century ( in a couple of years at least ). 30 miles in 30 minutes - who would have thought it possible..... Still, every little helps :)

RH

ringi

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 12:29:55 PM »
Given that I don’t know of any rail electrification that has been completed on time or to budget, along with the issues of the tunnel to Marple and wires blowing down in wind, I now consider that battery trains are a better option for us.    (Personally, I would like to see a stop to all rail electrification other than on high-speed lines.   It is just not worth the many years of disruption to service while it is install given we now have the option of battery trains.)

There are now battery buses on the market, that can be changed in 20 seconds and then travel a few miles before they need more charge.   The same can be done with trains, charging can be done with overhead wires at stations.  There is also the option of a train waiting for 20 minutes at Rose Hill while the driver does to the WC, and batteries get enough charge for the next round drip to Manchester.

Adding a generator to make it a hybrid, gives the advantage that the trains can be put into service on a line before all the chargers have been installed, hence greatly reducing the risk of the project.   It also allows the trains to be diverted  (maybe at a slow speed due to the limited output of the generator) when there are issues with the service.

rsh

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 11:23:37 AM »
Realistically, not everyone can have brand new trains.  Someone's always going to end up with the older stock.  And the best trains are always going to end up on the flagship, long distance routes.  Trains have a designed life span of 40-50 years after all.  Well except Pacers that were designed to last around 20 years but somehow are still going on...  The other issue is that no one wants to buy diesels.  it's seen as a dying technology.  Why invest too much when you've other stock you could use until other technologies are more feasible.

That’s sadly the key point, if we want better rolling stock to Marple we likely now have to be pushing for electrification first. (Or hope hybrid/battery technology becomes much more standard) Glossop is a fully comparable line, but electrified, guess what… they’re getting brand new trains.

It is fair to say our line has been consistently bottom of the pile though. My entire life since the late 80s it’s never had anything but some of the oldest, least cared for stock. They ran the Class 101s into the ground until 2003 for heavens sake, and even now with crush-loaded Pacers no one is standing up and saying “hey, why don’t we try giving this line a step-change in its service and rolling stock for once in its life?”.

If I have any cynicism it's that I suspect is that Northern are doing its refurbishments on the cheap. The refurbished ones I've been on could have benefited enormously from new seats for starters.  Just replacing the covering doesn't cut the mustard...

Agreed with that, no reason with modern design why a Class 150 has to feel like a bad train. The refurbishments are just totally half hearted and Northern seem insistent on the most bargain basement seat moquette possible.

Is this timetable on Real-time Trains set in stone though? I’ve been looking at Disley/New Mills Newtown because the line is meant to finally get 2 trains per hour, but it seems not all trains are appearing yet (either that or they’ll have the same number of trains with a really odd timetable).

Reading around rail forums online, I think they’ve still a few weeks to pin it down?

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 01:06:43 PM »
It's sad that we have been so accustomed to being bottom of the heap that our expectations are now so low.  The only thing that can be said for the class 150 'sprinters' is that they are not as bad as the class 142 'pacers'.  But they are still small (unless two units are coupled together), noisy, and with cramped (five abreast) seating.

Realistically, not everyone can have brand new trains.  Someone's always going to end up with the older stock.  And the best trains are always going to end up on the flagship, long distance routes.  Trains have a designed life span of 40-50 years after all.  Well except Pacers that were designed to last around 20 years but somehow are still going on...  The other issue is that no one wants to buy diesels.  it's seen as a dying technology.  Why invest too much when you've other stock you could use until other technologies are more feasible.

But old trains don't worry me as long as they're well maintained and kept in good condition.  It can be done.  The Bakerlook line in London has trains that are 46 years old, and will run for many more years too.  In South West London, electric trains are running that are older than the Sprinters we'll get.  Both have been been refurbished and looked after.  They still work and get people around.   Neither feel as old as they are.  They're looked after well.

If I have any cynicism it's that I suspect is that Northern are doing its refurbishments on the cheap. The refurbished ones I've been on could have benefited enormously from new seats for starters.  Just replacing the covering doesn't cut the mustard...

Dave

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 12:21:39 PM »
We'll probably get a hotchpotch of diesel trains that are being cascaded from Scotrail and GWR. 

Yes, that is what we can expect I fear.

There's nothing wrong with those trains physically.  They have plenty more years of life in them.  But they certainly won't be shiny and new.

It's sad that we have been so accustomed to being bottom of the heap that our expectations are now so low.  The only thing that can be said for the class 150 'sprinters' is that they are not as bad as the class 142 'pacers'.  But they are still small (unless two units are coupled together), noisy, and with cramped (five abreast) seating.

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 11:28:42 AM »
The catch, I fear, is that we won't get the shiny new trains - they will be allocated to other routes and we will get second hand Class 150 and 156 units, 'cascaded' down from the other lines. We are bottom of the heap, for some reason! 

Cynical, moi?  :-\

It's not really a secret.  The new diesel trains will run on "Northern Connect" routes.  These are regional services.  The first services will run Chester to Leeds, it was announced recently. 
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/caf-presents-first-civity-emu-for-northern.html

The Manchester-Sheffield service is not a Northern Connect route, so don't expect new trains to appear there.
https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/northern-connect

(Note the new electric trains will run some commuter services.)

So whilst they're being billed as Pacer replacements by some, they're really not. 

We'll probably get a hotchpotch of diesel trains that are being cascaded from Scotrail and GWR.  If we're lucky they might get refurbished, for some definition of "refurbished" - probably more Sprinters like the ones that already run when the Pacers aren't.  There's nothing wrong with those trains physically.  They have plenty more years of life in them.  But they certainly won't be shiny and new.

Dave

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 11:06:51 AM »
A better service and new trains too - what's the catch?

Northern to replace Pacers with '21st Century' trains  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42937218

The catch, I fear, is that we won't get the shiny new trains - they will be allocated to other routes and we will get second hand Class 150 and 156 units, 'cascaded' down from the other lines. We are bottom of the heap, for some reason! 

Cynical, moi?  :-\

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 08:03:16 PM »
The issue is caused by a lack of Northern diesel units. There has been delays in electrification in both the South West and North West which means that they have surplus electric trains and not enough diesels.

True although curious they've found a spare train in the morning peak as things have improved there

Quote
As far as i know, you can use Marple/Rose Hill tickets to either station, i certainly have never had a problem.


I have seen this said but never found any evidence that it is officially allowed as opposed to the staff just informally accepting it.

It would make sense to be official.

hatter76

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 05:52:05 PM »
Yep.  I wondered if Hyde would be benefiting from a Marple train being diverted that way or something, but looks not. 

It would certainly put me off using a Rose Hill service in the evening peak.  And therefore that means putting me off using a Rose Hill service in the morning given I buy a day return so need to use the same station for both trips.  For other users like me, there's no benefit to an improved morning service if the evening one is still shoddy.

I suspect this is all to do with capacity on platforms 1-4 at Piccadilly, but from a passenger point of view, the frequencies are bonkers.

The issue is caused by a lack of Northern diesel units. There has been delays in electrification in both the South West and North West which means that they have surplus electric trains and not enough diesels.

Its very disappointing that Marple and Rose Hill rush hour trains are being cut from the timetable as a result. However, this must have been agreed by Stockport Council and TfGM.

Can any councillors advise if representation has been made?


As far as i know, you can use Marple/Rose Hill tickets to either station, i certainly have never had a problem.

Cyberman

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 05:47:05 PM »
It would certainly put me off using a Rose Hill service in the evening peak.  And therefore that means putting me off using a Rose Hill service in the morning given I buy a day return so need to use the same station for both trips.frequencies are bonkers.
Hadn't spotted the Rose Hill changes - that's a poor outcome. Presumably also less frequent trains will also be more full. However you don't need to use the same station - they seem to be interchangeable. Unless of course your car is at one...

andrewbowden

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Re: May train timetable- changes to commuter services
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 11:34:48 AM »
that's crap, that's my commuter train via Hyde so it's going to one train an hour? Bloody rubbish :(

Yep.  I wondered if Hyde would be benefiting from a Marple train being diverted that way or something, but looks not. 

It would certainly put me off using a Rose Hill service in the evening peak.  And therefore that means putting me off using a Rose Hill service in the morning given I buy a day return so need to use the same station for both trips.  For other users like me, there's no benefit to an improved morning service if the evening one is still shoddy.

I suspect this is all to do with capacity on platforms 1-4 at Piccadilly, but from a passenger point of view, the frequencies are bonkers.