All your Marple and Stockport property and financial needs under one roof

Author Topic: A6-M60 Bypass  (Read 10761 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ringi

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 07:08:01 PM »
I don't think a rail connection to Stockport will make much difference, as so much of the employment is not within a short walk of Stockport Station.  "end to end" bus lanes from Marple to Stockport may make a big difference, as it would allow express buses from Marple to locations like Stepping Hill.

I tend to agree with your worries, Dave.

The urgent priority for Marple is the lack of a rail connection to Stockport, whether this be light or heavy.
Until that is sorted, I don't think a bypass would alleviate the issues.

Melancholyflower

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 05:45:50 PM »
I tend to agree with your worries, Dave.

The urgent priority for Marple is the lack of a rail connection to Stockport, whether this be light or heavy.
Until that is sorted, I don't think a bypass would alleviate the issues.

Dave

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 04:34:31 PM »
Yes, my worry is that a junction on Marple Road Offerton will not cut congestion in the area. It might even make it worse. But the report (P48, para 4.4.43) claims the opposite: 'Reduced traffic volumes are predicted on...... A626 Stockport Road between A627 and Marple'. i.e. Dan Bank.

ringi

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 02:38:51 PM »
My understanding is that this will lickly go to public inquery as so many of us living in Marple will object to these juctions due to Dan Bank, unless a full A6 bypass is put in to New Mills.

Dave

My understanding is that it will be junctions on these roads, which lead to 'link roads' which will then junction into the bypass itself. Its all going to be traffic light controlled - pretty much like most of SEMMS will be. It will all be 'at-capacity' in a couple of years I guess, such is the nature of these routes that are built to a budget.

andrewbowden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 01:33:21 PM »
I take your point (Andy Burnham has been after similar local fundraising powers for a while now), albeit it still doesn't get past the fact that London residents recieve circa £1,600 per head of population in transport investment, an amount about which the rest of the country can only dream . I believe the North West is the second best funded area, at just over a third of that amount per head.

Its all a un-virtuous circle (if thats a word) - maintain innequality between London and the regions and London will always be viewed as the best and 'only' choice for business investment. There should be a greater attempt at trying to spread central government spending in order to redress the balance, rather than continuing down the same path. Chris Grayling's recent statements re 'Northern Powerhouse' (thats just a fluffy name to make us all feel warm and cosy, when, as usual, the sums of money are pathetically small when considered against spending in the SE) infrastructure has been just plain embarrasing and borderline offensive.

I totally agree that the figures are just not right, but it's also realistic to say that equivalent infrastructure in London will always be more expensive than elsewhere in the country because of cost of land, and lack of availability for it.  To build a big tunnel like Crossrail or Crossrail 2 you need a lot of land above surface to get materials below ground and waste material out.  I used to work near Barbican where one of the many plots of land was that they used for this.  The cost of buying the building there, clearing it and keeping the land 'vacant for over a decade must have been astronomical. 

I have seen politicians claim that because X amount has been spent in London, X amount must also be spent in Manchester.  I don't buy that as a principle.  It's too simplistic, and sets up an us-and-them attitude.  I think it's far better to look at equivalent benefits.  Crossrail gives X level benefits to the community it serves. Let's get Greater Manchester a project that has the same level of benefit.  It will probably be that the project here will be cheaper.  And if it is, that's great too.

I am hopeful that having a Mayor will really help push forward public transport improvements.  But it's not just money he needs.  It's power.  Transport for London has much greater power than Transport for Greater Manchester, and it's had it for 17 years.  It has a raft of well planned schemes - like Crossrail 2 - in the bag and ready to go.  Transport for Greater Manchester can't even control the number of buses or fares...  As for trains, it's powers are very limited.  There's a lot of catching up to do.  And it will take time.

Incidentally a lot of businesses are seeing value in moving out of London.  In my industry 20 years ago there were next to no jobs outside London.  Now Manchester is thriving.  Businesses are increasingly realising that there's talented people who don't want to, or can't afford to, live in London.

Belly

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 12:28:17 PM »
Some further detail I found.  Over 60% of the funding for Crossrail comes from Londoners and London businesses.  28% comes from business.
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/about-us/funding

Central government's commitment is £4.7 billion.

I wonder how businesses in Stockport would feel about being told that they must cough up extra money to pay for public transport improvements...

I take your point (Andy Burnham has been after similar local fundraising powers for a while now), albeit it still doesn't get past the fact that London residents recieve circa £1,600 per head of population in transport investment, an amount about which the rest of the country can only dream . I believe the North West is the second best funded area, at just over a third of that amount per head.

Its all a un-virtuous circle (if thats a word) - maintain innequality between London and the regions and London will always be viewed as the best and 'only' choice for business investment. There should be a greater attempt at trying to spread central government spending in order to redress the balance, rather than continuing down the same path. Chris Grayling's recent statements re 'Northern Powerhouse' (thats just a fluffy name to make us all feel warm and cosy, when, as usual, the sums of money are pathetically small when considered against spending in the SE) infrastructure has been just plain embarrasing and borderline offensive.



Belly

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 12:14:11 PM »
Dave

My understanding is that it will be junctions on these roads, which lead to 'link roads' which will then junction into the bypass itself. Its all going to be traffic light controlled - pretty much like most of SEMMS will be. It will all be 'at-capacity' in a couple of years I guess, such is the nature of these routes that are built to a budget.

 

Dave

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 10:49:29 AM »
Thanks John for the heads-up. It's good to see signs of progress after all these years.

Looking at the map http://www.semmms.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/protected-route-corridor-for-the-A6-to-M60-scheme.pdf

.. it's not entirely clear whether there will be junctions (rather than flyovers) on Marple Road and on Offerton Road, but I think I read somewhere that there will, controlled by traffic lights?  If so, I'm not convinced that it will necessarily ease congestion on Dan Bank.

As for this: 
Lets hope for progress on Stockport as a Tram Train hub as well.

.... bring it on! 

andrewbowden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 09:03:50 AM »
Some further detail I found.  Over 60% of the funding for Crossrail comes from Londoners and London businesses.  28% comes from business.
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/about-us/funding

Central government's commitment is £4.7 billion.

I wonder how businesses in Stockport would feel about being told that they must cough up extra money to pay for public transport improvements...

andrewbowden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 07:39:53 AM »
Very good. A little surprised to see such a focus in the report on Hazel Grove and the A6 corridor and less emphasis on improvements to the A626 through Bredbury, which is where I suspect that the real relief will be felt.

Its a shame that the scheme will carve through the Goyt Valley, but I really don't see any other obvious solutions. In an ideal world this would all be part of a properly funded multi-modal approach to solving this areas transport woes.

Unfortunately I suspect that the majority of available cash will end up being spent in London. Crossrail 2 anyone? Just to put the north's under-funding into a little bit of perspective, Tottenham Court Road interchange in the capital (part of Crossrail 1) has sponged £1billion of investment..... or the cost of almost 2 Manchester Airport to M60 roads - of which we currently have half. Remind me why I pay may taxes again and how Chris Grayling keeps his job?

Worth noting that a huge amount of money for Crossrail comes from a precept on local businesses.  Tottenham Court Road station has also been massively redeveloped - no mean feat when it has two active tube lines running through it - and will probably have offices built on top of it, bringing in more revenue.

Ultimately Crossrail is expensive because building tunnels in London is incredibly difficult due to limited land available, and the scale of infrastructure required.  This is a line that will have trains 250m long and for good measure will be pretty much at capacity within months of opening.

None of this to say there shouldn't be investment outside London.  Just that the scale and costs of development will always be on the high side.  And equally London does contribute more to the costs.

Belly

  • Guest
Re: A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 11:54:00 PM »
The draft Stage 2 business case has now been published. Hopefully we may be getting closer to spades in the ground for this. Lets hope for progress on Stockport as a Tram Train hub as well.

http://www.semmms.info/semmms/strategy/a6-to-m60-link/

http://www.semmms.info/wp-content/uploads/A6-M60-Relief_Road_Scheme_SOBC_Working_Draft_v10_Client-Review.pdf

Very good. A little surprised to see such a focus in the report on Hazel Grove and the A6 corridor and less emphasis on improvements to the A626 through Bredbury, which is where I suspect that the real relief will be felt.

Its a shame that the scheme will carve through the Goyt Valley, but I really don't see any other obvious solutions. In an ideal world this would all be part of a properly funded multi-modal approach to solving this areas transport woes.

Unfortunately I suspect that the majority of available cash will end up being spent in London. Crossrail 2 anyone? Just to put the north's under-funding into a little bit of perspective, Tottenham Court Road interchange in the capital (part of Crossrail 1) has sponged £1billion of investment..... or the cost of almost 2 Manchester Airport to M60 roads - of which we currently have half. Remind me why I pay may taxes again and how Chris Grayling keeps his job?

JohnBates

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
A6-M60 Bypass
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 10:40:59 PM »
The draft Stage 2 business case has now been published. Hopefully we may be getting closer to spades in the ground for this. Lets hope for progress on Stockport as a Tram Train hub as well.

http://www.semmms.info/semmms/strategy/a6-to-m60-link/

http://www.semmms.info/wp-content/uploads/A6-M60-Relief_Road_Scheme_SOBC_Working_Draft_v10_Client-Review.pdf