A6-M60 Bypass

[Henry_]

Severe traffic congestion around Marple, Romiley, Offerton and Bredbury has been an issue for decades. It's not a recent thing. Offerton and Bredbury are most severely blighted with it. A back of a fag packet calculation suggests that I've spent around 2 entire months of my life on Bents Lane. At the moment you need to leave home before 6:30am or after 9:15, otherwise you're looking at 45 minutes to 2 hours to get to the motorway network. 2 hours is not an exaggeration as this has been experienced recently, caused by some minor roadworks near Vernon Park. It's completely unacceptable.

During my working life I have met people from all over the country, and it's surprising how many of them used to live in Marple. The very first thing all of them say is how bad the traffic was, and that they don't miss it at all. It is markedly worse than most other places outside of London.

The solution is not for everybody to work within walking distance of where they live. The economy just doesn't work like that unfortunately. The trend towards home working will have helped, but I suspect this has been offset by the increase in population. Permanent home working is not an option for most people as some level of face to face human interaction is always needed. Better rail / tram provision will always be welcomed and is definitely needed. But the solution absolutely has to include the current Hazel Grove to airport link and it's natural extension to Bredbury. I for one am counting the days until I feel the fresh tarmac under my wheels on the new bypass and would be overjoyed to know that work has commenced on the A6 to M60 link.

[Dave]

I think it's been fairly well established over the past thirty-plus years that building new roads WON'T actually reduce traffic in anything other than the extremely short term.

Agreed - and I don't think anyone in this thread has claimed otherwise. The new road won't reduce traffic, but it will deal with it more efficiently and without the ridiculous delays which we all endure at the moment.

We really need to get our heads around the fact that our current mindset of using the car for everything is not sustainable. We don't need new roads, we need to get people out of cars by providing useful, reasonable alternatives.

It's not either/ or. We need new roads AND we need decent public transport.  For some journeys cars will always be necessary. The trick is to improve public transport to the point when at least some drivers will leave their cars at home and free up the roads for those who really have to use them.

But here in Marple I can't see that buses will ever meet our needs, because the traffic congestion will always mean they don't run to time. We need a rail or tram link.

[andrewbowden]

The Swiss public transport system is very good. I never needed a car when on holiday there. It is however extremely expensive in taxes.

I always remember my first experience with Swiss railways.  Huge apologies on the tannoy because the train was going to depart 2 minutes late.  By the time we got to the first station we were on time again.

You're lucky if you get a grunt on the tannoy when a Northern Train departs Piccadillly for Marple late.  It's just expected.

[Condate]

The Swiss public transport system is very good. I never needed a car when on holiday there. It is however extremely expensive in taxes.

[andrewbowden]

Incidentally where's the petition for those of us who are sitting on the fence as to whether this thing should be built

[andrewbowden]

Transport for London's goal with trains and buses is generally run them at least every 15 minutes at all times.  Because as soon as you do, people stop looking at timetables and just turn up and go.  I lived in south west London for many, many years.  I never looked at the bus timetable.  As long as it wasn't past midnight, I knew I could just turn up at the bus stop and get a bus within five minutes.  Ten minutes max.   Some of the daytime routes would run until 1am.  New Years Eve?  Everything ran through the night!

This is also why the Metrolink does so well.  You don't need to think - you just get to a stop and there will be a tram within 12 minutes, max.  It's turn up and go.  It starts early, it runs late.  It has a decent New Years Eve service.  Compare that with Rose Hill's train service in the morning peak where someone's basically decided what time to run the trains by stabbing a pin in a piece of paper at random, and there's virtually nothing after 6:30

And as for fares... 

London's fares aren't that cheap, but they're integrated.  The same ticket covers trams, tubes, trains and buses.  You buy your weeks season ticket for the tube, and you essentially get bus travel for free for the week.  So you become more inclined to jump on that mega frequent bus instead of travelling by car.  Here in Manchester you can buy a monthly train&bus ticket but its more expensive.  And it doesn't cover the Metrolink for no good reason. 

But it's not just frequency and fares. It's destination too.  We do actually have a reasonable daytime bus service to Stockport.  Five buses an hour is pretty good going.  But unless you're going to Stockport (or Romiley) it's pretty poor.  The evening services don't run as often.  Rose Hill's evening service is a joke.  My parents don't live more than a few miles away, but it would be a nightmare to travel to them by public transport despite them living on a bus route and a railway line, because nothing connects well.  It would take three buses (good luck trying to get them to connect) or a train followed by a walk then a bus (ha!).

Basically a lot needs to change before we'll get people using public transport.

You need to replace all the season-tickets with one multi-modal ticket that covers everything.
You need the frequency of buses and trains far better
You need to make more trams

Some of this is now in Andy Burnham's power - when he was elected Manchester got the power to take control of the buses (currently it's a free for all.). But fixing this mess is going to take years.  And cash.  The benefits are plain to see, but will people stump up the money?

When I bought my first car when I left London, I was keen that I didn't just use it because I had it when I could take public transport.  But boy, it's not made easy.

[nbt]

Oh I agree entirely, public transport in this country is horrendous and not currently fit for purpose unless you live in London - when I lived there I didn't need a car and for most of my time there didn't own one. However, the answer is to improve public transport, not to build new roads that will simply become as busy as the roads they're intended to relieve. It's perfectly possible to create an integrated transport strategy but this means looking at the investment levels as a public service, not as a profit making exercise. This is unlikely to happen in our current socio-economic situation where money is king

[Condate]

the problem is the people who've grown up with cars and can ONLY see cars as the way forward. Sorry but yes, the answer is better public transport and fewer cars. you don't NEED a car to get to work, you choose to work further away because you drive there etc etc

I did not learn to drive until I was 36. Before that, I used public transport exclusively (or walked (or in my youth, cycled)). Now I do have a car, I couldn't go back to public transport unless it went from wherever I am to wherever I want to go every 15 minutes or so. I don't strictly need to use a car to go to work and occasionally use the bus. I wouldn't do so by choice, even if the buses ran to time, as it is just so inconvenient in terms of much longer journey time due to the timetable (and inability to go shopping, or to a food outlet at lunch). I chose where I work because I could get a job in Stockport. At that time, I lived 25 miles away and did sometimes use the train, but the trains were one an hour for most of the day and there was no way to get a decent journey time, as I worked a fixed shift. For non-work journeys, although some of them are theoretically possible to do by public transport, it would take many times the journey time of using the car and many are not possible at all in a reasonable time.  Before I had a car, I thought I knew my local area. When I got a car, I found I only knew a tiny fraction of it, as so many places were inaccessible by public transport and too far to cycle or walk. Most of them always will be, as only a small number of people want to make the specific trip.

[nbt]

the problem is the people who've grown up with cars and can ONLY see cars as the way forward. Sorry but yes, the answer is better public transport and fewer cars. you don't NEED a car to get to work, you choose to work further away because you drive there etc etc

[amazon]

If you wish to show support for the A6-M60 link please sign the supporting petitions

www.hazelgroveconservatives.org.uk/campaigns/a6-m60-bypass

www.change.org/p/get-the-a6-m60-bypass-built-save-stockport-s-eastern-communities-from-dangerous-traffic

keep pushing for this i might see it built before i go to the heaven in the sky then i can look down and say they havent built that damm motoway yet .

[amazon]

If on the other hand you think that destroying the  countryside and green space is a really bad idea, please sign the petition OPPOSING the bypass


https://www.change.org/p/alex-ganotis-stop-the-a6-m60-bypass-save-stockport-s-beautiful-goyt-valley-and-green-spaces

I think it's been fairly well established over the past thirty-plus years that building new roads WON'T actually reduce traffic in anything other than the extremely short term. We really need to get our heads around the fact that our current mindset of using the car for everything is not sustainable. We don't need new roads, we need to get people out of cars by providing useful, reasonable alternatives

Like what .so what is your anser to reduce traffic around lower fold Marple and other parts of the area .please dont say bus lanes car sharing it wont work .we need the bypass done
 the final piece                 its been going on now since iwas Bredbury comprehensive school and im am now retired

[nbt]

If on the other hand you think that destroying the  countryside and green space is a really bad idea, please sign the petition OPPOSING the bypass


https://www.change.org/p/alex-ganotis-stop-the-a6-m60-bypass-save-stockport-s-beautiful-goyt-valley-and-green-spaces

I think it's been fairly well established over the past thirty-plus years that building new roads WON'T actually reduce traffic in anything other than the extremely short term. We really need to get our heads around the fact that our current mindset of using the car for everything is not sustainable. We don't need new roads, we need to get people out of cars by providing useful, reasonable alternatives

[JohnBates]

If you wish to show support for the A6-M60 link please sign the supporting petitions

www.hazelgroveconservatives.org.uk/campaigns/a6-m60-bypass

www.change.org/p/get-the-a6-m60-bypass-built-save-stockport-s-eastern-communities-from-dangerous-traffic

[marplerambler]

I don't think a rail connection to Stockport will make much difference, as so much of the employment is not within a short walk of Stockport Station.  "end to end" bus lanes from Marple to Stockport may make a big difference, as it would allow express buses from Marple to locations like Stepping Hill.

Retired now, thank goodness, but a great many hours were spend commuting by bus to and from Stockport often with the journey from Marple to Stockport often taking nearly an hour. The walk from Stockport station to the town centre would have been of little consequence had I been able to travel from Marple/Rose Hill to Stockport in 15 minutes by tram/train. As for 'end to end' bus lanes from Marple to Stockport I would just respond 'Dream On': the road is too narrow for bus lanes.

[CTCREP]

Thank you Councillor, but previous experience has shown that some Councillors may listen but then draw their own conclusions based on their own experience that does not necessarily cover all aspects of cycling. 

On Wednesday 15th November the Council is holding its regular Cycle User Group meeting at the Town Hall at 6pm. They will be discussing the Council's Future Cycling Strategy.  Anyone who has an interest in improving cycling conditions within the borough in order to encourage more people to cycle is welcome to attend. 

We now have a new Chief Executive. Let us hope that this time the Council will not just listen to what cyclists say but actually act upon their advice and not assume they know better on a subject many know little about. Most people now think of the bicycle as a toy or a sporting device. We need the Council to recognise it should be primarily considered as an integral part of our transport system if we are to encourage some people to be able to commute to work and to school etc.