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marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2016, 09:59:46 PM »
I have received the following response from Transport for Greater Manchester:-

'As you may be aware, during weekdays, service 394 is operated on a commercial basis by High Peak Buses. The Saturday service is subsidised by Derbyshire County Council with TfGM contributing to the service along routes within the Greater Manchester boundary.

From 25 March 2015 High Peak Buses has made the decision to withdraw the weekday journeys; however, this is not the result of TfGM reducing subsidy. Given TfGM's current funding concerns, TfGM officers are currently working with Derbyshire County Council to determine if it is possible to use the funding already used for the Saturday service in order to provide a limited weekday service.

TfGM are aware that Derbyshire County Council have issued a tender to seek a form of replacement of the 394 service and upon analysis of bids a decision will be made on what replacement service can be funded'.

I did ask the questions 'Could you provide clarification of the process of how providing funding for unprofitable services serving sparsely populated areas works? Who makes the decision about which services are subsidised and who determines the level of the subsidy?' but no reply to these questions was forthcoming from TfGM. Can any of our Councillors (or ex-Councillors) provide clarification?

The response from TfGM refers to 'current funding concerns' with no indication of how extra funding for this service could be provided to ensure the continuation of the Monday to Friday service. The economics of the 394 service are a little bit of an enigma to me. High Peak Buses have run the Monday to Friday service for two years without subsidy so it must have been operating with revenues from fares and payments from the Councils for concessionary travel and just about broken even (if this was not the case the company would have withdrawn from the service sooner). Wages have not risen by very much and the cost of diesel has plummeted and I don't think passenger numbers have fallen much, so unless I am missing some fixed cost eg. licensing, insurance or some other overhead cost which has risen substantially finances haven't changed much in the last two years. Are the bus company attempting to hold the Councils to ransom or has the shoestring upon which the company are operating genuinely finally snapped? High Peak Buses has a considerable investment operating a number of services services in the Glossop area (though rather ironically the obvious money spinner is the Stagecoach 236/237 to Ashton). If the figure of £350 (the 2013 figure) quoted by Cllr Mckeown  is reallocated to Monday to Friday services for and the Saturday service is withdrawn we are looking at a subsidy of only £70 per day - chickenfeed.

BUT and it is a big BUT will the Conservative Party's grip on spending destroy the public transport infrastructure we currently possess and result in the word Cameron  ultimately be spat out with the distaste that Beeching now evokes. Few will deny that massive closure of the railway network was one of the greatest mistakes ever made by the British government. Our roads are jammed with traffic and one very good reason matters are not a great deal worse is that the car sits in the garage when the bus pass arrives with the pension book. It is not just the people who are lucky enough to have a Concessionary Pass who benefit - it is every single motorist on the road because there is one less car queuing. Destroy the rural public transport system we have which incorporates routes such as the 394 and you will significantly increase the number of cars on our already overstretched roads, you destroy the lives of many people who can't afford to buy a car to travel to work and the lives of many people who are too old to drive or suffer a disability which prevents them driving.

I hope that our political representatives will be doing more than handing a list of names to TfGM and that they will be genuinely fighting to ensure the retention of bus services such as the 394 by ensuring that funding is provided even if it does mean an increase in our Council Tax.

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2016, 08:04:52 PM »
Just to cheer you up I managed to get a shot of a 394 today. Shutter speed to quick to display number though  :(
Nice one! It is not often that that we get two photographs of buses in one day from the Conservative Party but more seriously thank you for taking up the campaign. With petitions from you and William Wragg on behalf of the Conservative Party, another from Sue Ingham from the LibDems, a third from Councillor Mckeown from the Labour Party and one from me on 38 degrees there is certainly a much greater awareness of the problem in Marple than there was a few days ago. :)

Details of my response from Transport for Greater Manchester coming up :(


JohnBates

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2016, 07:17:58 PM »
Definitely more encouraging than Mr Wragg's site. Unfortunately it doesn't auger well that the bus shown in Mr Bate's photograph (fleet number 292) was withdrawn from service prior to 15th December 2015 (Source: Sheffield Onmibus Enthusiasts Society).

Just to cheer you up I managed to get a shot of a 394 today. Shutter speed too quick to display number though  :(

[attachment deleted by admin]

JohnBates

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2016, 07:07:28 PM »
Could Conservative Councillors for Hazel Grove Oliver Johnson and Julian Lewis-Booth recognise that buses, in addition to being ideal mobile constituency surgeries for the MP, provide patients with access to doctors’ surgeries and Stepping Hill Hospital and follow the example of prospective Conservative  candidate John Bates’ example and also show their support by enabling their constituents to support the continuation of the 394 bus service by setting up an online petition showing their support for the service?

The petition is a constituency wide inititive, which has been promoted on the various websites we have and also on facebook and twitter pages, where many of our local activists have been sharing and re tweeting.
http://www.hgconservatives.com/home/394-bus
http://marplesouth.yourcllr.com/2016/02/25/394-bus/
https://twitter.com/johnbates_me_uk/status/702523098554310656
https://www.facebook.com/johnbates.me.uk/posts/940906112651945

Including @CllrKennyBlair @OliverJohnstone Sue Carroll (prospective candidate for HazelGrove Ward)

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2016, 10:59:53 AM »
Post from What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?
Late thought,

Why don't you propose at the next Council meeting that the full Council debates the proposed withdrawal of the 394 bus service and its actions and consequences. A local issue that is really important to local people.

In fact at the earliest opportunity, I am going to see what the proposed motions are, for the next Council meeting and post them on this site. Then people can judge for themselves how relevant they are.

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2016, 10:23:33 AM »
Many thanks to Sue Ingham and Marple Liberal Democrats for incorporating a statement on their website pledging to fight for the 394 service.
Sue Ingham states ‘I and my fellow Cllrs are very concerned that this is happening and without any consultation.  This is a vital service for residents who have no other means of attending hospital appointments and discontinuing the service will cause real hardship for many people.’
Residents living in High Lane who depend upon this service may well be grateful for a similar pledge from Hazel Grove Lib Dem councillors and give High Lane and Hazel Grove residents the opportunity to sign the statement: ‘I, the undersigned, call on High Peak Buses / Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mon to Fri (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital Glossop to Stepping Hill route serves too many people without other means of transport’ on the Hazel Grove Liberal Democrat website.
A previous Conservative candidate for the Hazel Grove constituency is a big fan of Routemaster buses and has decided their easy hop-on, hop-off rear entrance make them ideal as mobile constituency surgeries.



 Annesley intends to take his double decker bus around Hazel Grove on a regular basis.  He plans to take the bus to different parts of this LibDem-held seat on at least two weekends every month.  Local residents will be encouraged to hop on board to collect literature, meet Annesley and other members of the local Conservative team.  People will be invited to bring casework concerns with them.
Is the pledge for ‘Real Change in Hazel Grove’ shown on the constituency bus in fact a pledge to withdraw or reduce the frequency of the 394 service? Could Conservative Councillors for Hazel Grove Oliver Johnson and Julian Lewis-Booth recognise that buses, in addition to being ideal mobile constituency surgeries for the MP, provide patients with access to doctors’ surgeries and Stepping Hill Hospital and follow the example of prospective Conservative  candidate John Bates’ example and also show their support by enabling their constituents to support the continuation of the 394 bus service by setting up an online petition showing their support for the service?

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2016, 10:26:13 PM »
Derbyshire have put out to tender for two options.

1) The current service
2) a reduced two hourly service

Lets keep up pressure so hopefully will go for option one if reasonable tender price.

http://johnbates.me.uk/index.php/campaigns/200-394-bus-2
Definitely more encouraging than Mr Wragg's site. Unfortunately it doesn't auger well that the bus shown in Mr Bate's photograph (fleet number 292) was withdrawn from service prior to 15th December 2015 (Source: Sheffield Onmibus Enthusiasts Society).

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2016, 09:24:46 PM »
Looks like @William Wragg MP supports saving the 394 service and now has his own petition on his web site:

http://www.williamwragg.org.uk/campaigns/save-394-bus
It is interesting to see the photographs above the petition for the bus service on William Wraggs website.

The first is Mr Wragg digging for victory celebrating the massive cuts in Council Parks & Rec staff which has led to such a deterioration of Marple Park, Brabyns Park, St Chads and Torkington Park. The second is a splendid photo of Mr Cameron: I cannot help thinking that David Cameron would board a bus and take a seat, the driver would turn around to ask for his fare and Mr Cameron would very genuinely be totally confused and apologise profusely stating that he thought buses had conductors to collect the fares. The final photograph above stating 'Your Council Tax has been frozen' doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence about the provision of funding: if the elderly and infirm are denied their meals on wheels due to cuts will they be denied the wheels to get to Stepping Hill if they don't have a car?

Still, it's inspiring to see our MP is now taking signatures on this subject. If he had asked I am sure that he would have been told that he could actually take a photograph of the bus as it went through Marple instead of having to use the photo taken by the Labour Councillor for Gamesley (google Cllr Anthony Mckeown 394 and lo and behold what do you find but Mr Mckeown's photograph of the bus in Gamesley when started his campaign and petition two weeks ago). Handy that he was able to copy the photo from the Labour Councillor's website.

Cllr Anthony Mckeown said “I condemn the management of High Peak Buses / Centrebus for this latest decision taken without consultation with either service users or the County Council which will see locals cut off from access to work, Stepping Hill Hospital, Marple College and leave residents of Chisworth completely stranded with no local bus service during the week.”

William has already written to, Stockport Council, Derbyshire Council, Transport for Greater Manchester and High Peak Buses asking that they look very carefully at retaining this service as it crucial for so many in our community.

Mr Wragg states 'The 394 provides a vital lifeline to the most vulnerable in our community and seeing its services cut would have wide reaching consequences'. Well that is a statement of the obvious. What I do not see anywhere in his statement is a commitment to fight for the service!

He also states: 'Signing the petition will give William the chance to present this to all of the groups mentioned above to add further weight to everyone's cause.' again a statement of the obvious but not the slightest hint that he could care less!

It might be handy for him to download a copy of the petition document from Councillor Mckeown's website.

amazon

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2016, 08:58:26 PM »
I live on Glossop Road just before the county boundary. We are 2.5 miles from the centre of Marple Bridge but our catchment school is Marple Hall which is over 4 miles away. The school bus service only goes as far as Devil's Elbow (around 1.5 miles before the Stockport boundary) so our children have to use the 394. Without the service they will have to walk along isolated, unlit and dangerous roads which is simple unsafe. If they attend after school activities, they will only have public transport as far as Marple Bridge and will then have to walk 2.5 miles. Other children who live over the border but attend Marple Hall will be in an even worse predicament, but from what I've heard, locals aren't aware of the imminent withdrawal of the service. Several elderly neighbours don't drive or are in ill health and the bus is a lifeline for them and is also essential for hospital visits. I can't see how they can be expected to walk 2.5 miles to Marple Bridge. These are really steep roads, covered in surface water (so you risk a soaking by passing motorists) and are isolated and have no street lighting so users are really very vulnerable. I've contacted  our local councillor, MP, Transport for Greater Manchester, the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party, Stockport MBC, Derbyshire County Council and High Peak Buses! I'd ask all concerned parties to do the same.
This is true people who live atHawk green are not aware .talking to lady at stepping hill yesterday she was not aware on the withdrawl of the service ..and somone said they dont register the passes when you show them .

JohnBates

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2016, 07:56:22 PM »
Derbyshire have put out to tender for two options.

1) The current service
2) a reduced two hourly service

Lets keep up pressure so hopefully will go for option one if reasonable tender price.

http://johnbates.me.uk/index.php/campaigns/200-394-bus-2



JMC

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2016, 05:30:10 PM »
I have used this service several times this week and it seems quite well used. I need to print some leaflets as not sure the older folk are aware what is happening.

AngelaH

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2016, 02:39:44 PM »
I live on Glossop Road just before the county boundary. We are 2.5 miles from the centre of Marple Bridge but our catchment school is Marple Hall which is over 4 miles away. The school bus service only goes as far as Devil's Elbow (around 1.5 miles before the Stockport boundary) so our children have to use the 394. Without the service they will have to walk along isolated, unlit and dangerous roads which is simple unsafe. If they attend after school activities, they will only have public transport as far as Marple Bridge and will then have to walk 2.5 miles. Other children who live over the border but attend Marple Hall will be in an even worse predicament, but from what I've heard, locals aren't aware of the imminent withdrawal of the service. Several elderly neighbours don't drive or are in ill health and the bus is a lifeline for them and is also essential for hospital visits. I can't see how they can be expected to walk 2.5 miles to Marple Bridge. These are really steep roads, covered in surface water (so you risk a soaking by passing motorists) and are isolated and have no street lighting so users are really very vulnerable. I've contacted  our local councillor, MP, Transport for Greater Manchester, the Liberal Democrats, the Labour Party, Stockport MBC, Derbyshire County Council and High Peak Buses! I'd ask all concerned parties to do the same.

admin

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2016, 01:50:19 PM »
Looks like @William Wragg MP supports saving the 394 service and now has his own petition on his web site:

http://www.williamwragg.org.uk/campaigns/save-394-bus
Mark Whittaker
The Marple Website

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2016, 09:53:17 PM »
"the service is not now economically viable due to low usage"

It might be more viable if the drivers actually registered OAP's bus passes. I've been on the bus several times when the passes (including mine) have been ignored and tickets not issued. Hmm, I wonder if this is laziness or company policy to prove a point they wish to argue?
I generally find that the High Peak drivers are very diligent about issuing tickets though I do stand there expecting a ticket. I was on the bus on Friday, saw a passenger board, show his pass and go straight to his seat but I noticed that the driver hit the ticket button on his machine even though the passenger was seated by that time.

Things are going slowly (43 signatures in 3 days) with the 38degrees online petition asking William Wragg MP and Andrew Bingham MP to fight for the continuation of this service but a member of staff at 38degrees rang me this morning and stated that he will send an email to everyone registered for 38degrees email in the Stockport / Glossop area. Hopefully this will help bring the matter to the attention of many less regular users. I have been astonished by the number of people who have said that even though they have a car, they use this service when they need to go to Stepping Hill hospital because it is so hard to park at Stepping Hill.

If you use the service or think that you will use the service if you need to go to Stepping Hill and have not signed the petition or if you live on a section of the route which is not served by another service please sign the petition now!

The petition is at  https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1  ?

If you go directly to the 38degrees site, the site is a bit confusing. To find the petition enter 394 in the box with the magnifying glass immediately to the right of the 38degrees logo.

I already have about sixty signatures from people who have been standing at the bus stops when I have been putting up notices.

simonesaffron

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2016, 06:53:02 PM »
OK Simone  I apologise! 

No need Barbara, just pointing out an inaccuracy. Anyway I can't speak for Councillor Geoff but I'll accept it graciously, thank you.