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Author Topic: 394 bus service  (Read 38221 times)

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rsh

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #78 on: March 03, 2016, 12:43:49 AM »
Perhaps sadly worth noting here:

"Derbyshire County Council are proposing to withdraw all county council funding for subsidised buses from October 2017. This means that unless they can be run commercially they will stop."

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2016/february/news_items/consultation_on_subsidised_buses_launched.asp
Services: http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Appendix%201%20-%20Supported%20Local%20Bus%20Services_tcm44-277439.pdf

Around here this appears to include all but five journeys of the 62 and even some subsidised early morning and evening 358 journeys - I'm not sure if this is the whole route or just between Hayfield and New Mills? But nevertheless it'd be another important link lost.

Saturday 394 is listed but notes "this may be subject to change"?

John Ellis

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2016, 11:31:24 PM »
Marple Lib Dems have reproduced on their website part of High Peak/Centrebus's response to their letter expressing their unhappiness about the proposal to withdraw the 394. It's identical to a paragraph in the response which I had from them, which suggests that they're simply sending out a standard "identikit" letter or e-mail to everyone who has made representations to them about the loss of the service without addressing people's individual points or concerns.

I think that suggests that High Peak's mind is made up, and that making representations to them is pretty certain to be wasted effort! If the 394 is going to be saved at all, its survival, in whole or in part, will depend on whether Derbyshire County Council, Transport for Greater Manchester or (hopefully!) both are prepared to reinstate financial support to subsidize the route. If people who use and value the service want to lobby for its retention, they clearly need to forget about High Peak and direct their efforts at TfGM and Derbyshire CC.

marplerambler

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2016, 10:47:12 PM »
02.03.2016 and 222 signatures on the online petition for the 394 bus. If you want to see the service continue and haven't signed yet could you sign please?

The petition is at  https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1  ?

New comments include:

'It is an important bus service, that if removed will have a negative impact on the travel of students, people visiting family and friends in hospital, commuters who use this service between Chisworth and Glossop/Marple. It just does not make any sense for this service to be stopped'

'I frequently use 394 bus for commuting and hospital appointment as I don't drive a car. Without 394, going to hospital and work would take much longer than now. Would you please reconsider withdrawn the services. '

'My granddaughter uses this bus to travel to school in Marple '





marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2016, 04:14:41 PM »
And did I actually spot one stuck to the window behind the driver on a 394 at the end of last week?
You certainly did! Guerrilla tactics. I have put up a few notices when I have been travelling on the bus. Unfortunately the drivers have now realised that these were being planted and when I have caught the same vehicle later in the day they have sometimes been taken down and placed on the dashboard so I have asked for them back and then reposted them somewhere else.

There are now 178 signatures on the petition. If you know anyone who use this service who has not signed, can you copy the link below and email it to them please.

My 38degrees petition states:
 'To William Wragg MP, Andrew Bingham MP, Stockport and High Peak Councillors
Save the Monday to Friday 394 bus service from Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital via Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple station, marple, Hawk Green, Marple Ridge College, High Lane and Hazel Grove.'

Transport for Greater Manchester have, in fact, asked me to send the petition directly to TfGM but I will send a copy to the two MPs and to all of our Marple/Hazel Grove councillors.

The petition is at  https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1  ?



John Ellis

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2016, 02:37:18 PM »
By the way, congratulations to "marplerambler" on his energy and effort in sticking up his notices. They seem to be on every bus stop in Hawk Green and High Lane. He even managed to startle my son from his Saturday morning reverie with the sound of sticky tape being pulled off the roll. There's a 394 bus stop by his gate! And did I actually spot one stuck to the window behind the driver on a 394 at the end of last week?

Councillor McKeown of Gamesley has had a similar idea. He'd put a batch of flyers on the 394 yesterday morning for passengers to pick up, urging people to sign his petition. A lady from Hawk Green travelling on the bus told me that she was going to photocopy one when she got home and intended to put copies through the letter boxes of all her neighbours. If the service does go down, it looks as if it certainly won't be without a fight!


John Ellis

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Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2016, 02:17:46 PM »
I agree entirely with the points made by the two immediately previous posters. I e-mailed TfGM yesterday to ask if at this stage they are able to indicate, at least in principle, whether they might consider restoring a subsidy to the service, especially if Derbyshire County Council agrees to do so. Without such a commitment, my hunch is that a "saved" 394 would only run on the Derbyshire section of the route, from Glossop to Chisworth or, at best, between Glossop and Marple. I can't imagine Derbyshire CC being willing to be the sole funder of a subsidized service running a long way into a neighbouring authority, with local authority spending as tight as it is. As and when I get a response from TfGM, I'll copy it on to this thread.

marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2016, 09:21:57 AM »
.... The burning question is, will Brexit mean a reprieve for the 394 bus?
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boris buses in Marple? :)

JohnBates

  • Full Member
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  • Posts: 151
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #71 on: February 29, 2016, 09:22:29 PM »
Anyone using the route knows that an implicit requirement to save the 394 will need to be some funding from Transport for Greater Manchester (and Derbyshire County Council if the route is to continue to operate to Glossop.

I am sure some funding will be required. Once we have a response to the tendering we will know how much. Until then it is difficult, as we have no idea of the sums involved. If amount is reasonable then finding the funding is definitely something I would support.

'I the undersigned, call on Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mondays to Fridays (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital route for residents of Marple, Hawk Green and High Lane to stepping Hill route serves many people without other means of transport.'

This wording, if accurate, does seem worthless. No company can continue making losses indefinitely. Surely the petition should be aimed at Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester?

marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #70 on: February 29, 2016, 07:41:11 PM »
LibDems have just produced a flier to go through all addresses en route with a petition stating 'I the undersigned, call on Centrebus and all interested parties to reverse the decision to stop all 394 bus services from Mondays to Fridays (effective from 27 March 2016). This vital route for residents of Marple, Hawk Green and High Lane to stepping Hill route serves many people without other means of transport.'

Is this flier or the LibDem petition worth the paper they are printed on? Centreline/High Peak Buses are very obviously losing money on this route and the petition for a continuation of the service should include a request for funding by Transport for Greater Manchester not a polite request that the company should continue to operate the service at a loss? Are the LibDems prepared to fight for funding for this service?

William Wragg MP and Prospective Councillor John Bates request on the Conservative petition is 'help keep the 394 on our roads, Monday-Friday.' but there is no hint of a commitment to fight for funding so I ask the Conservatives the same question as I asked the LibDems: are you prepared to fight for funding for this service?

My petition on 38Degrees requests that the appropriate MPs and councillors:-
'Save the Monday to Friday 394 bus service from Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital via Charlesworth, Chisworth, Marple Bridge, Marple station, Marple, Hawk Green, Marple Ridge College, High Lane and Hazel Grove.'

Anyone using the route knows that an implicit requirement to save the 394 will need to be some funding from Transport for Greater Manchester (and Derbyshire County Council if the route is to continue to operate to Glossop.


Are both lis

John Ellis

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #69 on: February 29, 2016, 04:56:20 PM »
I thought that 394 users and followers of this thread might be interested in my message to High Peak Buses via the "Contact Us" section of their website, and in their reply, e-mailed to me this morning. I notice that they make no comment at all on my attempt at a helpful suggestion as to possible alternatives if there's no public money forthcoming to restore the subsidy on the Monday > Friday service!

MY MESSAGE TO THEM:

I was dismayed to learn this week from one of your excellent drivers that HighPeak/Centrebus proposes to withdraw the Monday>Friday (untendered) 394 bus service at the end of March, as I use the service several times a week and sometimes more than once a day; I live close to the 199 and 394 bus routes on the outskirts of Hazel Grove, use a Marple bank which has no branch closer to my home, and regularly visit an elderly house-bound friend on the borders of Hawk Green. There is no straightforward public transport alternative to the 394 for accessing Marple from my area.

I appreciate that, since taking over this service at very short notice after the demise of "Speedwell", the company has been proactive in making efforts to encourage more patronage of the 394 service, notably by experimenting with the - presumably ultimately loss-making - extension from Stepping Hill into Stockport, that when costs are routinely greater than revenues commercial bus services can't be maintained indefinitely, and that in the current public expenditure climate local authorities are increasingly unable to maintain the existing networks of subsidized bus services. On the other hand, I'm also aware that back in 2012 TfGM and Derbyshire County Council were at that time prepared to continue the subsidy, and that High Peak offered to try to run the service on a commercial basis rather than surrender the route to Smith's of Marple!

However, we are where we are. I've signed a couple of petitions to local councillors which, if well supported by 394 users, will hopefully have some influence in encouraging TfGM and DCC to give favourable consideration to reinstating at least some degree of subsidy to enable the retention of the 394, even with a more limited frequency. But in present circumstances there is of course no way of knowing whether that will happen, which leaves me wondering whether there might be other more financially viable ways of retrieving at least something of the present 394 service.

For instance, might it be possible to consider extending the 62 Hayfield - New Mills - Marple service to Stepping Hill via the 394 routes, especially since Stepping Hill is the main local hospital for New Mills residents, whereas it isn't, on the whole, for folk who live in and around Glossop? And with that section of the 394 route thus served by an extended 62, I wonder if a Glossop - Stockport service which didn't have the long and time-consuming diversion via High Lane and Hazel Grove, and was, perhaps, "express" or "limited stop" between Marple and Stockport, might turn out more attractive to through passengers than the extended 394 proved to be - especially if DCC could be persuaded to put a little money into it for the benefit of residents in Charlesworth and Chisworth? I've no particular expertise in public transport economics, but I was a teenager in south Manchester when Dr Beeching slashed the railway network and, while it was quite reasonable to cut existing rail services which were little used, it surprised me back then that no real "lateral thinking" seemed to be given to utilizing existing track and stations to provide services into central Manchester which was where, back then, a very large number of people did want to go each day. Just a thought!


THEIR REPLY TO ME:

Dear Mr Ellis,

Thank you for your email and sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the planned withdrawal of the 394. I can confirm that from the 27th March this service will no longer operate Monday to Friday. The weekday service on the 394 is operated on an entirely commercial basis by High Peak Buses and over the past few years we have worked hard to try and build the route up in order maintain commerciality.
 
The timetable has been reviewed a number of times to try and improve passenger usage and in April 2015 we extended the service to Stockport Bus Station, by adding extra resources into the service in a bid to try and increase passenger numbers on the service. This change was promoted through a special 394 leaflet that was designed and produced for the service. However unfortunately, despite the extra resource we put into the service, passenger numbers continued to be low and the extension was withdrawn towards the end of October 2015. In addition to this a review of specific journeys on the route identified some poorly used journeys which were costing us an extra bus and therefore some early morning journeys on the service were also cancelled.
 
We have continued to monitor the service and unfortunately despite our best efforts to keep the service running, we have now reached a point where the operating costs of running the service are no longer being met and as a result we have had to withdraw the service. I understand that this decision may cause some inconvenience to some passengers, however at the same time I would like to assure you that this is not a decision that has been made lightly.
 
Unfortunately with the reducing government funding it is difficult for bus operators to maintain commerciality on services, however we will continue to work in partnership with the council to try and ensure that key bus links are maintained where possible.
 
I am aware that Derbyshire County Council have now issued a tender for the Monday to Friday 394 service to continue with funding support provided by them. At this point, the best advice I can give you is to contact the council for more information regarding this.
 
Once again thank you for taking the time to get in touch and sorry for any inconvenience caused as a result of the changes to the 394 service.

Kind Regards,
 
Bijel Mistry

Commercial Manager
 
CENTREBUS LTD your local bus service provider
 
PLANNING, DEVELOPMENT AND REVENUE
102 Cannock Street, Leicester, LE4 9HR
 

John Ellis

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2016, 12:26:25 PM »
Let's hope that this campaign takes off and make a difference. I'm a frequent and regular user of the 394, but I live in Hazel Grove, which is why I'm a new arrival on this forum. The 394 serves my area as well as yours, and its friends and passengers need to club together all along its route to maximize its chances of surviving! I’ve signed "Rambler"'s "38 Degrees" petition, plus all the others that I’ve been able to find on line. Including the one on new Hazel Grove Tory MP William Wragg’s site – bit rich, that one, in that the Conservative government’s austerity agenda is hardly supportive of local authorities subsidizing loss-making bus routes on which numbers of people depend. Still, any port in a storm!

I’ve also used High Peak/Centrebus’s on-line “Contact Us” facility to argue the case for the retention of the service. The difficulty, of course, is that bus companies are businesses which need to turn a profit to survive, and the unhappy fate of Speedwell, the 394’s previous operator, shows that they don’t always manage to do so! So I put a couple of alternative suggestions to High Peak which I thought might attract more custom and so offer a chance to keep (just about!) profitable buses running along much or even all of the route, even if they no longer had the number 394 and didn’t directly link Glossop with Stepping Hill. But I’m just an ordinary bus passenger and no public transport economist, so the Centrebus strategic route planners might just laugh out loud at my suggestions.

There may be some hope that Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester will agree to subsidize the 394 once again, even with a reduced service; it had been subsidized for years right up to the time when Speedwell collapsed, High Peak took it on with a subsidy under an emergency contract when Speedwell went under, the subsidy was apparently set to continue when High Peak offered to continue the 394 commercially in order to stop Smith’s of Marple horning in with a lower quote than theirs, and the subsidy was restored on the 394’s Saturday service when High Peak said they couldn’t continue it without one. And I see from the Marple North prospective Tory candidate's site that Derbyshire CC has advertised for tenders both for continuing the present service and for operating a less frequent one.

But at the same time I see that Derbyshire County Council is currently holding a public consultation on the future of subsidized bus services in the county, in which one of the options is scrapping subsidies completely; councils are already being squeezed until the pips squeak, and George Osborne’s just hinted that because the economy’s not doing quite as well as he was suggesting only three months ago (well, fancy that!), public expenditure may be curtailed still further. More and more, this leaves councils focusing on their core functions - the things they're legally obliged to do, such as social care for the elderly and child protection, rather than the things they can choose to do but don't have to, like running libraries or subsidizing public transport. They just don't have the dosh to do it all.

So we just can’t be sure that this time round there’ll be the public money on offer to keep the 394 running six days a week. But what we surely do know is that if enough of us 394 users make a clamour, the service is more likely to survive than if we don’t! The thing that bugs me is that when it comes to supporting unprofitable but socially useful bus services we're solemnly told that the country has no money, but money suddenly becomes no object when it comes to renewing "Trident" or jacking up MPs' pay.

marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2016, 10:58:43 PM »
Coming up to 150 signatures on the online petition for the 394 bus. If you want to see the service continue and haven't signed yet could you sign please?

The petition is at  https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-394-glossop-marple-stepping-hill-hospital-bus-1  ?

Comments so far include:

'I use this service several times a week, primarily because I use a bank in Marple and visit a housebound elderly friend who lives on the route. There is no readily accessible public transport alternative into Marple from where I live in Hazel Grove.'

' Stepping Hill needs better public transport links with the community it serves, not withdrawal of existing ones. '

'Another nail in the coffin of our inadequate public transport system in this area '

'Our Walking Group uses this bus regularly. '

'Use this service regularly to Stepping Hill and to visit friends in High Lane and am a fare paying customer '




CllrKennyBlair

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2016, 02:30:02 PM »
@marplerambler The request was for a motion to debate and I advised it was unlikely to be added. Having looked at the Agenda, there are not just no motions, there isn't even a slot for any motions. I don't think this would be the correct avenue anyway. What I also suggested was that we could ask questions of the TfGM representatives or the Executive, either through me, another Councillor or as a public question.
Again, looking at the Agenda, I can see no slot for Executive Question time but there is a slot for Public Questions and indeed petitions. Public questions can be submitted up to 30 minutes before the start of the meeting and question cards are available from the Democratic Services officers at the Council meeting or at www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2986/45681/councilmeetingquestioncard?view=Standard

Alternatively, you can submit the question electronically using the Online Form at https://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/contents/councilquestions/

marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2016, 02:15:20 PM »
@Hoffnung Regarding the 394 Bus, I can certainly look into adding it to the Agenda, but as it is the Budget Council meeting, it is unlikely it will be added. (it is also unlikely I will be in attendance at the Full Council Meeting on Thursday as i will unfortunately be in Scotland). Would you like to propose the motion to debate? We can also ask questions of the Executive or TfGM representatives, which may be more appropriate or indeed you can even ask questions, as we have Public Question Time.
If payment of a subsidy for a bus service is not relevant to a Budget council meeting who is it relevant to? This is not intended to be a personal criticism or an attempt to be discourteous, it is a question about procedure. I am coming up against an informational brick wall relating to funding of an unprofitable bus service. Transport for Greater Manchester did not provide me with any information about how the magical 'Journey provided with the financial support of Transport for Greater Manchester' symbol' is attained. If public transport is not your specialist subject fair enough. I attended Council Meetings as a representative of Stockport MBC for a number of years and soon learnt that each of the six Councillor members has their specialist subjects and interests and that a single councillor cannot provide an answer on all of the incredibly diverse services provided by the Council but if this topic does not fall under the remit of the Budget Council meeting I would like to know which Council committee says 'Dear TfGM we need a subsidy for our bus service?' in order to ensure that the relevant Councillors discuss this matter before the deadline for withdrawal of the service is reached and so I can attend the discussion about the proposal to request funding from TfGM and to see just what our MP and local councillors have actually done and said. Please advise.

marplerambler

  • Guest
Re: 394 bus service
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2016, 10:32:58 AM »
Councillor Kenny.....


Back to the 394 bus, which is a real local issue. Are you going to propose the motion at the next council meeting? Now that debate I really would appreciate.