What can we do about Northern Rail?

[Dave]

From the Autumn Statement.

"Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains"

but how long until we get the new trains?

Indeed.  And if the Chancellor actually referred to Pacers on Trans-Pennine Express then he needs to get his facts straight - there aren't any!   But it doesn't inspire confidence, does it!    If he can't get such such simple facts right, then why should we believe anything he says?   

[Duke Fame]

Here's the link BBC News : Key points of 2014 Autumn Statement: At-a-glance
              Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains
              Tendering for Northern Rail and Trans-Pennine Express franchises to replace pacer carriages with modern trains

Hope they replace the Pacer trains before they abolish all the guards from the service, mind.
     https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/320806/northern-transpennine-consultation.pdf
     https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/keep-safety-critical-conductors-on-the-train-at-northern-rail

Why, it always seems strange to be that we have manned stations and a ticket man on the train, it makes sense to replace it al with automated barriers.

[Duke Fame]

I for one am not holding my breath waiting for these new trains!  We shall have to wait (as usual) for London and the South East to be given priority.

Babs do you want salt & vinegar on those chips.

[ringi]

And that is way the franchises was extended, as they could not decide about new trains until they know what was going to become electric.

But will be get a tram to Rose Hill before the new trains arrive...

[hollins]

Here's the link BBC News : Key points of 2014 Autumn Statement: At-a-glance
              Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains

As you see, that particular paragraph in the "Business and Science" bit of the Autumn Statement is in good company ...

Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains

National Insurance on young apprentices abolished

Britain awarded the lead role in the international effort to explore Mars

[sgk]

Well, there is no need, in his autumn statement, just 4 years into the coalition govt, there is a pledge to replace the Pacer train. The former government had 13 years so well done the coalition government.

Here's the link BBC News : Key points of 2014 Autumn Statement: At-a-glance
              Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains
              Tendering for Northern Rail and Trans-Pennine Express franchises to replace pacer carriages with modern trains

Hope they replace the Pacer trains before they abolish all the guards from the service, mind.
     https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/320806/northern-transpennine-consultation.pdf
     https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/keep-safety-critical-conductors-on-the-train-at-northern-rail

[Barbara]

I for one am not holding my breath waiting for these new trains!  We shall have to wait (as usual) for London and the South East to be given priority.

[ringi]

From the Autumn Statement.

"Old pacer carriages on Northern Rail and the Trans-Pennine Express replaced with new and modern trains"

but how long until we get the new trains?

[Duke Fame]

"I've thought about writing to my MP" Well, it would be a start.

Well, there is no need, in his autumn statement, just 4 years into the coalition govt, there is a pledge to replace the Pacer train. The former government had 13 years so well done the coalition government.

[hollins]

I reckon there are about 50 seats in each carriage, and on this occasion I counted roughly the same number of standing passengers in each carriage.

100 passengers per carriage, radiating about 100W each, gives 10kW. Who needs heating?!

At least the passengers on the 8.10 are sober......

If you travel regularly on Northern Rail, sometimes alcohol helps! 

[Dave]

Rammed into a corner of the 8.10 recently, I tried to count the number of standing passengers.  I reckon there are about 50 seats in each carriage, and on this occasion I counted roughly the same number of standing passengers in each carriage.  That's not exceeding seat capacity by 35%.  It's 100%! 

And it's not just the 8.10 either.  The late trains from Piccadilly are almost as bad, especially at weekends.  (At least the passengers on the 8.10 are sober......  )

[hollins]

The Northern Rail Passengers Charter is at http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/passengers_charter_july2012.pdf. Section 6 is about the trains. Delighted to know that they think it reasonable that the number of standing passengers can exceed seat capacity by 35% (exceeded daily on the two-carriage 0810 service from Marple and many evening services). No other organisation would allow you to block the emergency exit routes with this number of people. I wonder if you could actually take it up with the HSE.

As for the "We will maintain our trains in a good condition and to a high standard of cleanliness" bit ...

[Dave]

I was listening to a programme on the radio about businesses and how they respond to complaints and the best way to complain is via Twitter.  Apparently the companies don't like the complaints to be in the public domain so usually sort them out quickly.  It's worth a try.

That may well be good advice when complaining about a problem which it is within the power of the company itself to resolve  But this is different.  The power to do something about our rubbish trains lies fair and square with the politicians themselves.  Right now, and over the next 15 months or so, the DFT will be dealing with the new NR franchise which is due to start in Feb 2016.  If they decide to make it a condition of bidding that companies must set out their plans to modernise and replace rolling stock, and specifically these Class 142 'Pacer' trains, then that would be a big step towards resolving the problem.

[My login is Henrietta]

Well, you can read their regular twitter information at https://twitter.com/northernrailorg or @northernrailorg.

Evening of Monday 1st December has to be one of their most dire periods ever: two hours waiting on the Piccadilly station concourse for a series of train services that were, sequentially,
delayed - cancelled -reinstated -delayed -cancelled
after points failures at Ashburys.

Says it all when the rail-replacement buses that turned up were all booked out to Transpennine Express, not Northern Rail.

While I agree that Northern Rail are the pits, it's hardly fair to blame them for a points failure.

[hollins]

Well, you can read their regular twitter information at https://twitter.com/northernrailorg or @northernrailorg.

Evening of Monday 1st December has to be one of their most dire periods ever: two hours waiting on the Piccadilly station concourse for a series of train services that were, sequentially,
delayed - cancelled -reinstated -delayed -cancelled
after points failures at Ashburys.

Says it all when the rail-replacement buses that turned up were all booked out to Transpennine Express, not Northern Rail.