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Author Topic: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?  (Read 10975 times)

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simonesaffron

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2012, 09:12:54 AM »
I don't remember the 50's.   
If you don't remember the '50s what makes you think you can pontificate on them? If you speak to people who remember the poverty and deprivation of the 1930s in the industrial areas of Britain and the privations of the war years you will find people who will support my view of the '50s. Things have moved on but the '50s were as good as it got back then.

(And as for shops opening and closing when they felt like it - there were by-laws which legislated for closing times, for example hairdressers and barbers were not permitted to open on Mondays, a "tradition" which still continues long after the by-laws were forgotten.)

Henrietta,

You're putting up a good fight here but the battle is really nostalgia versus history in fact that's why we can "pontificate" even though we weren't there - it's known as history.

I guess most people when they were young and if they were happy (and if you weren't happy when you were young then when were you?) see that period as a golden time. So I will concede to your memories, enjoy them.

By the way, my name is Simone not Simon.

Dave

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2012, 08:40:14 AM »
I don't know where Henrietta used to live, but many years ago I lived in Cheadle Hulme.  Since then, Waitrose has arrived in Cheadle Hulme, and this seems to have done no harm at all to the local shops.  On the contrary, many are thriving, and the excellent local butchers Pimlotts report that 'The coming of Waitrose to the centre of the village has helped keep us busy, because local people tend to shop locally.’  See http://cheshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/a-choice-location--we-visit-cheadle-and-cheadle-hulme-39666/

Hyde, actually. Morrisons and Asda have killed small shops and even the food market there

....which unavoidably highlights the huge social and demographic gulf between the population of Cheadle Hulme and the good folk of Hyde.  Maybe the arrival of a supermarket in a relatively affluent commuter suburb can benefit the local independent shops (as seems to have occurred in Cheadle Hulme), whilst in a place like Hyde, devastated by the collapse of manufacturing over the past three decades and the resulting unemployment, everyone has to count every penny so carefully that local traders are wiped out by Asda and Morrisons.

If that theory holds, what are the implications for Marple?

wheels

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2012, 08:06:09 AM »
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs.  And you have a problem with this?

Yes I do unthinking respect is unhealthy in a society. Its like calling oyur GP Dr instead of Mike or whatever.

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing. Haven't you looked at the gravestones in local cemetaries and church yards.? Life expectance for men in the 1950s was 65 as compared with 60 in the early 1930s (you can't count the 1940s as statistics were skewed by the war) but you can't assume that all men suddenly dropped dead on their 65th birthday! Infant mortality was reduced (check the official statistics) and TB, one of the great killers of the pre-war years and earlier was at last curable, thanks to penicillin.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. Oh? What about John Anderson, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, The Free Thought Society, The Libertarian Society, CND and the Aldermaston marches in the late '50s and dozens of other examples

Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of. Oh really? Women had been eligible for an old age pension at the age of 70 since 1909 as were men, albeit a means tested pension. The Beveridge report of 1942 resulted in the founding of a "cradle to the grave" welfare state in the 1940s which gave women family allowances, maternity and widows' benefits which they benefitted from the late 1940s onward.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on and advances are made

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read, listen to the radio and watch the television?
 




My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2012, 01:59:34 AM »
Sorry, the last bit didn't make sense because it wouldn't let me edit properly

...................................
People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on but one can't judge the past by the standards of the present

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read or listen to the radio or watch television?
 
    Don't cross swords with an historian unless you're sure of the facts :P
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2012, 01:20:53 AM »
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs.  And you have a problem with this?

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing. Haven't you looked at the gravestones in local cemetaries and church yards.? Life expectance for men in the 1950s was 65 as compared with 60 in the early 1930s (you can't count the 1940s as statistics were skewed by the war) but you can't assume that all men suddenly dropped dead on their 65th birthday! Infant mortality was reduced (check the official statistics) and TB, one of the great killers of the pre-war years and earlier was at last curable, thanks to penicillin.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. Oh? What about John Anderson, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, The Free Thought Society, The Libertarian Society, CND and the Aldermaston marches in the late '50s and dozens of other examples

Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of. Oh really? Women had been eligible for an old age pension at the age of 70 since 1909 as were men, albeit a means tested pension. The Beveridge report of 1942 resulted in the founding of a "cradle to the grave" welfare state in the 1940s which gave women family allowances, maternity and widows' benefits which they benefitted from the late 1940s onward.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on and advances are made

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read, listen to the radio and watch the television?
 


Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2012, 12:07:57 AM »
I don't remember the 50's.    
If you don't remember the '50s what makes you think you can pontificate on them? If you speak to people who remember the poverty and deprivation of the 1930s in the industrial areas of Britain and the privations of the war years you will find people who will support my view of the '50s. Things have moved on but the '50s were as good as it got back then.

(And as for shops opening and closing when they felt like it - there were by-laws which legislated for closing times, for example hairdressers and barbers were not permitted to open on Mondays, a "tradition" which still continues long after the by-laws were forgotten.)
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 12:02:50 AM »
I don't know where Henrietta used to live, but many years ago I lived in Cheadle Hulme.  Since then, Waitrose has arrived in Cheadle Hulme, and this seems to have done no harm at all to the local shops.  On the contrary, many are thriving, and the excellent local butchers Pimlotts report that 'The coming of Waitrose to the centre of the village has helped keep us busy, because local people tend to shop locally.’  See http://cheshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/a-choice-location--we-visit-cheadle-and-cheadle-hulme-39666/

Hyde, actually. Morrisons and Asda have killed small shops and even the food market there
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2012, 11:55:58 PM »
Amazon, I will try to keep this simple. I-DID-NOT-SAY-THAT-INDIVIDUAL-ITEMS-WERE-CHEAPER-I-SAID-THAT-I-SPEND-LESS-MONEY.

What don't you understand about that?
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

amazon

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2012, 12:50:25 PM »
We do need another supermarket in Marple. The co-op has a monopoly and their prices are very high, their variety has none, and their sell by dates are narrow.

In my view a medium sized to small supermarket on Chadwick street would benefit the community of Marple it might bring some extra vehicular traffic but perhaps that would be the price to pay.

As well as this some of our local traders need to up their game. Some of their service is poor and some of their opening times are restrictive. Closing half-day on Wednesday is outdated practice and only drives their customers into the arms of Sainsbury's and Morrisons.
The Co-op does have it's advantages. Since coming back to live in Marple I've been using the Co-op and my weekly bills have dropped considerably. There is far less temptation to buy things I might need at some time in the future and I don't waste the petrol that I did when I used to make detours to Ad-tes-bury's supermarkets.

Where I used to live there were no longer any independent bakers, delis, flower shop, cafes, sweet shops, newsagents, or greengrocers because they'd been driven out by the "big boys". Even the hairdressers, dress shops, hardware shops and jewellers were disappearing and the historical market was on its last legs because hardly anyone came into the town centre to shop anymore.

Be careful what you wish for.

Still want to know what you can find cheaper in the coop .

Dave

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2012, 10:19:18 AM »
The Co-op does have it's advantages. Since coming back to live in Marple I've been using the Co-op and my weekly bills have dropped considerably. There is far less temptation to buy things I might need at some time in the future

I didn't say that individual items were cheaper in the Co-op. What I actually said - if you had bothered to read it properly - was that I was tempted to buy less in the Co-op than on visits to other supermarkets - largely due to the absence of "special offers"

You have to admire this ingenious effort to make our under-stocked and over-priced supermarket seem like a good thing!  It's like saying 'I'm pleased that the bus service is getting worse and the fares are going up, because now I'll save money because I won't be tempted to go anywhere'.   ;D

wheels

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2012, 08:17:28 AM »
Oh and Simon don't be gay in the 50s driven in to the closet. No civil partnerships then never mind marriage. Oh the 50 were so good for so many people.

My personal favourite was the child abuse that went on sending boy to school in short during the winter, oh I loved those chapped legs. But it was all worthwhile for the wonderful 50s

simonesaffron

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2012, 07:55:59 AM »
 Jeez Henrietta,


You make the 50'S sound even worse than Wheels and I did !  Whatever you do, don't go into advertising or practice being a defence barrister. They will almost certainly re-introduce hanging for your client. Come to think of it they had that in the 50's. Oh well that's another "good thing" to remind everybody of in that golden age.

 Chinese gooseberries...free glasses, scarlet fever,diptheria, oh and safe operations - tremendous, council estates - fantastic, electricity, jobs in't Mill and you could even buy a pound of butter. Eutopian age.

wheels

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 06:18:38 PM »
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs. No one had first names in the 50s it was a time when you were expected to give automatic respect just because someone was old or because you were young.

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing.

There was a dead hand across society a do as your told attitude"they" know best.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. No one challenged anything until the 60 when at last we began to sweep away these attitudes.Women started to take their rightful place in the workforce become economically productive. Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.

No cars had radios, TV closed down at 10pm and we were all told to go to bed. The incident of smoking was massive and people smokedeverywhere.

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were.

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better.

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2012, 05:42:32 PM »
As I said - Be careful what you wish for
.

Please tell us what is cheaper at the coop than say Morrisons       Today

morrisons Kellogg corn flakes 759g £1.34 coop £2.70 toilet rolls from tomorow on offer at morrisons .walkers crisps also from tomorow .
I didn't say that individual items were cheaper in the Co-op. What I actually said - if you had bothered to read it properly - was that I was tempted to buy less in the Co-op than on visits to other supermarkets - largely due to the absence of "special offers" (which aren't really special at all) in the Co-op. I go to the Co-op with a list and stick to it rather than wandering round thinking "Ooh, look at that - I might need that if I have visitors/at Christmas/if I do a cake stall at the charity show". "It" being something which emerges from the back of the cupboard years later when the use-by date is lost in the mists of time.

Anyway, The Co-op has a better ethical footprint than (particularly) Tesco which is important to me. Each to his or her own.
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!

My login is Henrietta

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Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 05:19:17 PM »
Actually, Wheels and Simon, the 1950s were far from grim. Rationing had ended by the very early '50s (the last product came off "the ration" in 1954), there was more, and more interesting, food available - it was the beginning of a general interest in Italian, Chinese and Indian food and I tasted my first kiwi fruit (called Chinese gooseberries back then) and my first avocado in the late 1950s, courtesy of Peter Mason, the very forward thinking greengrocer on Hollins lane. Colourful and fashionable clothing was available for women and children and men could afford a decent suit from the "multiple" tailors. The general standard of housing all over the country was greatly improved over that of the pre-war period (largely due to the activities of Mr Hitler) and council housing was available for those who needed it.

The NHS was up and running and there was no need for a "post code lottery" when it came to medical treatment. Free glasses and dentistry were available. Antibiotics meant women no longer died in childbirth except on rare occasions and pneumonia, scarlet fever, diphtheria and similar ilnesses were no longer the scourge they had been pre-war due to improved treatments, drugs and vaccination. Operations were safer and techniques had improved, partly thanks to advances made made in treating wounds during the war. And no-one died because they couldn't afford the Doctor or hospital treatment.

Primary and secondary education was free to all according to his or her abilities and even university education was a posibility for "the masses" (assuming they were bright enough) with grants available for the less well off, thanks to the 1944 Education Act. Free school milk with free school dinners for those who needed them also contributed to better health in poorer children.

People were being moved out of big city slums into bright new houses in bright new towns and on out of town estates. Most houses had electricity by the 1950s. It only came to Marple in about 1936 and the war had stopped it's spread but it had become the norm by the '50s although there were still a few older cottages still lit by gas. HP was more widely available and consumer items - 'fridges, washing machines and even motor cars - were becoming reasonable expectations for most people.  Vacuum cleaners, modern detergents, the availability of cheap hot water, all lead to cleaner, healthier homes and people. These domestic improvements made it possible for more women to go out to work thus improving family incomes and because girls were getting a better education they weren't limited to jobs in the two mills in Marple or in shops or service and they could aspire to a better life than their mothers and grandmothers had had. The 50s were also the beginning of the teenager culture and a whole new music, radio, television, fashion, etc., "life style" was growing up round them.
 
In the 1950s Marple reflected these general improvements and was a bright prosperous little town. There was a thriving commercial life and residents could buy anything from a pair of shoes and a pound of butter to a car and a television set without setting foot out of what was still called "the village". There was a cinema, a theatre (The Carver), a library, a labour exchange, the council offices where you could actually speak to the official you needed, the park, the recreation ground, 5 ladies hairdressers and two barbers, two ladies dress shops, a gentlemen's outfitters and a tailor, 3 children's wear shops, shops selling household linens, wool, dress and furnishing fabrics, 4 butchers, a cafe and a "posh" restaurant, 3 radio and television shops, several grocers and greengrocers, two shoe shops and a cobblers in case you needed your shoes repaired (yes, we did that in those days, we were odd like that), a hardware/ironmongers shop, a dry cleaners, 2 banks, a building society  and a post office, several packs of Brownies and Cubs, and companies of Guides and Scouts, the Lads and Girls Brigades, Church youth clubs and Sunday Schools, a well-respected (then) secondary modern school and at the end of the 1950s the planning and building of a grammar school and a clinic catering to the health of babies, children and expectant mothers. Not bad going for the "grim Fifties"

Television may have been black and white with shades of grey but life certainly wasn't.
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!